I use Ed Rosenthal’s method, never had one not pop but what ever works for you is the best. CL
Keffkas Coast Of Maine Line, TLO/LOS Style, Bagseed, Indoor Grow
- Thread starter Keffka
- Start date
Mikedin
Well-Known Member
Looks good! I’ve never tried myco on the seeds when planting before what’s the theory on what it does at that stage?Alright so the seeds were ready to go. I went in and tapped each one. Most of them sunk, sat for a few seconds, then slowly made their way up. That’s perfect and exactly what I’m looking for. 2-3 sank to the bottom after being touched and stayed there for 20-30 seconds before slowly rising again. That’s a little bit too much and not what I’m looking for. I don’t want to drown the seeds, I just want to make sure they split slightly so I know their viable enough to plant, but more importantly I want myco getting root contact asap. This may not be any more or less efficient, I haven’t quantified the differences yet but I’ll get to it, I’m taking the necessary notes.
Here are the cups all filled with the starter, I have left space between the soil and top of the cup for mulch.
I sprinkled myco into each of the holes Im planting into.
I pulled the seeds out of the jar using a glass pipette I have for other extractions. The vacuum created as it fills with water pulls the seeds in easily. You can see here I just place them on a towel.
I use a small 40 ml beaker and place an 1/8 tsp of myco in it.
Once the seeds are no longer dripping I toss them into the beaker and shake em around a little
I pull the seeds out with a small tsp then plant them by hand. I just drop them in, I’m not concerned with the direction they’re deposited. Plants can sense gravity and light, they know which direction to go. I also sprinkle additional myco into the hole after the seed goes in. I have it out anyway and don’t want to risk putting anything wet back into the myco container so I just sprinkle the leftovers in the hole.
The voodoo juice called for 2 ml/L so I mixed up .5ml/250 ml. I used it to settle in 3 of the seeds with 10 ml each. The rest of the seeds all got 10 ml of distilled water to settle them in as well. When they pop up I will use spring water for 2 weeks, the minerals are a nice little added bonus while she works her way through her initial reserves. Once I transplant into the 1 gallon I will start using RO water.
I went back and forth about mulching the solos before they break ground and decided to go with it
If I’m missing something obvious as to why I shouldn’t mulch them please let me know because I’m not thinking of it and I have been known to miss the obvious lol.
I set them by the radiator again so they can be nice and warm while I get their new home ready.
Unfortunately, now is the lamest part. Sitting and waiting for them to say hello. It’s okay though.. I have this hps bulb I can mess around with for a bit.. I can also get some chores done lol.
lootznbootz
Well-Known Member
Makes myco available to the root tap as soon as it opens I believe.
It’s new to me as well.
If there are other reasons I’m sure someone else can explain more
Mikedin
Well-Known Member
Yeah I’m really interested, I mix myco with my clone water for the new roots, I just didn’t know if the new rap root would benefit from it
I’ll have to look into it more as well! I’ve been doing more clones than anything lately though but still good info when I drop some beans!
- Thread starter
- #85
So the myco we’re really concerned with getting up and running can only live attached to a root from a living plant. This means it needs to come in direct contact with the roots. It’s why you see the recommendation to dust your root ball during transplant, as well as sprinkle it into the hole where it will make direct contact with the roots.
Having myco spread throughout your medium is helpful for when your roots eventually reach it if your medium doesn’t have a lot of bacteria. However because I’m running a LOS type grow, the amount of bacteria I’ll have will suppress this myco growth. So what I’ve done is make it so myco will begin establishing immediately before the bacteria even has a chance to get a foothold.
I will purposefully feed the soil fish fertilizer to encourage myco growth as well. It’s very easy to introduce/reintroduce bacteria into the medium, its not as easy to get the fungus to hold. Myco when established can provide massive amounts of nutrients and water to your plant. As much as 50% of the plants required Phosphorus, which also happens to be one of the most difficult nutrients for plants to get access to due to the bonds that hold it in the soil. Myco can also breakdown larger pieces of organic matter and make it easier for the bacteria to further break it down making more nutrients available to the plant.
I could keep going and going about myco and how important it is, but getting it to establish can be tricky. This is why I rolled my seeds in and sprinkle some in, so the moment a root reaches out it’s already in contact with myco.
And another advantage is, just like tomatoes, new roots will form on the newly buried part of the stem.
- Thread starter
- #87
Yes, good knowledge! I’ll expand a little for anyone who doesn’t know. This is the reason cloning works as well. Inside the plant there are “meristematic” cells that have the ability to turn themselves into any part of the plant. These cells form a tissue called the meristem. This meristem exists in the tips of the roots and shoots, referred to as “apical meristem”. This meristem contains everything needed to turn into any part of the plant, it’s what creates new growth. These tissue cells can continually divide until they are given a specific purpose usually through a chemical signal or hormone shift.
The plant can sense light, gravity, air, water, etc. When it senses something like being buried, it begins sending a signal to the meristem that it needs new growth, the meristem starts “differentiating” (assigning a purpose) cells inside its tissue and they move into the location they’re being signaled to.
It’s wild, and complex, and beautiful.
Dropping knowledge bombs, I love it!
- Thread starter
- #89
Dropping knowledge bombs, I love it!
I’ve gotten a lot of knowledge and help from this community. I also recognize that most people don’t hyper focus on things like I do (this is a double edged sword that heavily impacts other areas of my life). If I can give back to this community by making the plant just a little more accessible to people because I weirdly obsess over my interests then I’ll be happy lol.
Plant biology/physiology can get really heady, especially if we include the soil food web, and jump down to the cellular level. A lot of it is unnecessary information for your average grower/gardener, but there are certainly some gems worth knowing that can empower them in their own gardens.
- Thread starter
- #90
I got tired of waiting, surprise! 
I decided to just move the seedlings into the tent so when they pop they’re ready to photosynthesize.
I dropped 550 cord from the center of the light so I could find the center of the light lol
I’ve got the light set to 25% and have it 34 inches from the top of the cups
This height and power is hitting the solos with 245 PPFD at dirt level, which is right about the middle of the road for seedling PPFD.
I will be paying close attention to initial stem growth and branching to determine whether I should increase the power and lower the plants, decrease the power and raise the plants, or leave them right where they’re at.
My RO water system will be here on Wednesday. I got the APEC ROES 50. This should provide more than enough water for the plants and the family. Currently I can get the room to 80F no problems however RH is gonna be rough with how dry it is out. I may have to buy a stronger humidifier. I expect the seedlings to pop up some time tomorrow or Wednesday, hopefully.
I decided to just move the seedlings into the tent so when they pop they’re ready to photosynthesize. I dropped 550 cord from the center of the light so I could find the center of the light lol
I’ve got the light set to 25% and have it 34 inches from the top of the cups
This height and power is hitting the solos with 245 PPFD at dirt level, which is right about the middle of the road for seedling PPFD.
I will be paying close attention to initial stem growth and branching to determine whether I should increase the power and lower the plants, decrease the power and raise the plants, or leave them right where they’re at.
My RO water system will be here on Wednesday. I got the APEC ROES 50. This should provide more than enough water for the plants and the family. Currently I can get the room to 80F no problems however RH is gonna be rough with how dry it is out. I may have to buy a stronger humidifier. I expect the seedlings to pop up some time tomorrow or Wednesday, hopefully.
lootznbootz
Well-Known Member
Oh man this just keeps getting better and better! I’m loving this journal already!I got tired of waiting, surprise!
I dropped 550 cord from the center of the light so I could find the center of the light lol
I’ve got the light set to 25% and have it 34 inches from the top of the cups
This height and power is hitting the solos with 245 PPFD at dirt level, which is right about the middle of the road for seedling PPFD.
I will be paying close attention to initial stem growth and branching to determine whether I should increase the power and lower the plants, decrease the power and raise the plants, or leave them right where they’re at.
My RO water system will be here on Wednesday. I got the APEC ROES 50. This should provide more than enough water for the plants and the family. Currently I can get the room to 80F no problems however RH is gonna be rough with how dry it is out. I may have to buy a stronger humidifier. I expect the seedlings to pop up some time tomorrow or Wednesday, hopefully.
Keffka's got a great memory and grow sense!
Mikedin
Well-Known Member
Ahh tired of waiting… I know that feeling all too well haha.. and that hyper focusing thing you where talking about… yeah that’s an issue for me too haha, it that has its good and bad qualities like everything else lolI got tired of waiting, surprise!
I dropped 550 cord from the center of the light so I could find the center of the light lol
I’ve got the light set to 25% and have it 34 inches from the top of the cups
This height and power is hitting the solos with 245 PPFD at dirt level, which is right about the middle of the road for seedling PPFD.
I will be paying close attention to initial stem growth and branching to determine whether I should increase the power and lower the plants, decrease the power and raise the plants, or leave them right where they’re at.
My RO water system will be here on Wednesday. I got the APEC ROES 50. This should provide more than enough water for the plants and the family. Currently I can get the room to 80F no problems however RH is gonna be rough with how dry it is out. I may have to buy a stronger humidifier. I expect the seedlings to pop up some time tomorrow or Wednesday, hopefully.
- Thread starter
- #94
We haven’t even left the cups yet! I plan on doing deep dives into most, if not all aspects of the grow so we can get really detailed, digestible information about what’s happening. I grew up in the “GameFAQS” era where every game had these huge, detailed walkthroughs the community would work together, leaving no stone unturned. I really appreciated stuff like that.
When it comes to plants, growing and nature I’ve got a good lock on it. Like we talked about in my other journal when I learned about TLO at first, it didn’t feel like I was learning, it felt like I was unlocking knowledge that was already there. However, let’s not talk about remembering dates, names, or people
Yep, waiting is the worst lol. Especially if I leave the house cuz then I just sit and think about the what ifs lol. The hyper focus would be like a superpower if I could control it, however it decides what it wants to focus on and I’m just along for the ride lol.
It’s nice when it lines up with wanting to learn something. For example I was able to read through True Living Organics, Teaming with Microbes, nutrients, and fungi in 2-3 days and have since read each one multiple times. However this means other stuff suffers like my diet (I’ll forget to eat) my personal hygiene (I’ll go without a shower for too long if I’m not leaving my house) and other basic life stuff. Thankfully I can recognize it though so I can force myself to do those things when they need to be done.
- Thread starter
- #95
There it is, the first signs of life!
lootznbootz
Well-Known Member
And so it begins…- Thread starter
- #98
Here’s the system I purchased.. $212 after taxes.. I’ve seen it available for $150 on sale if anyone is interested and is willing to wait for a sale.
In honor of the RO system coming tomorrow I figured this would be a good time to start discussing water. This is a big topic that spans multiple subject areas, which we will cover as we go along.
Water is a critical component of the grow that many don’t think about beyond ph (or something to mix nutes into if that’s your thing). Up to 90% of a plants weight is water in its cells and cell walls. The properties of water allow it to bypass the plant membrane which is responsible for keeping bad stuff out and good stuff in. Water is so important, plants dedicated millions of years and 3 cellular pathways to perfecting their ability to use it.
Water moves into plants in 2 ways. The first way is transpiration (which can be controlled by us with VPD). Approximately 90 percent of a plant’s water loss happens as a result of evaporation through leaf stomata. This process of evaporation is called transpiration. This indicates that as much as 90 percent of a plant’s water comes into the roots as a result of transpiration. The molecules evaporating from the leaf surface pull up water molecules from below. This, in turn, causes a pressure deficit in the roots that pulls in more water from the soil.
Hydrogen bonds keep water molecules stuck together, also known as cohesion. As one molecule is pulled up through the plant to evaporate off the leaf surface so it pulls the next molecule and the next up with it.
This is regulated by tiny stomata cells embedded in the leaf. These cells are regulated by potassium and trace amounts of chlorine.
The other 10ish percent of water comes in through absorption due to “Root Pressure”. Root pressure occurs when there is more water outside the root than inside it. This difference causes water to flow in the direction that will create a state of equilibrium.
Earlier I mentioned VPD.. VPD stands for Vapor Pressure Deficit. VPD is a measure of how much water is in the air versus the maximum amount of water vapor that can exist in that air. This means that the more humid our environment is, the less our plant can transpire. The dryer our environment is, the more our plant can transpire.
So if our environment is extremely humid, our plants will only be able to take in so much water from the soil because they can only evaporate so much into the air before it becomes fully saturated and won’t hold any more water. On the flip side, when our environment is really dry, the amount of water our plant can take in and evaporate off is incredibly high.
As this transpiration process happens, the plant is working its butt off. It’s using energy to synthesize, move nutrients and sap, and all sorts of complex interactions are happening all while water is being pulled into up and out of it. The more your plants are transpiring the harder they are working. This is knowledge we can leverage.
In the beginning we don’t want to drive our plants very hard, they’re still getting their roots, and establishing themselves in this world. As our plants age and mature though they become capable of handling more and more until eventually we find ourselves in flower pushing our plants to their limits. Sound like any other life forms you know?
We want our plants to grow in a relaxed environment where their only concern is to eat and get bigger. We don’t want them working their butts off just to keep themselves hydrated nor do we want to try to push our plants processes until they’re ready. Similar to how we don’t allow children to do specific tasks until their bodies have matured or we risk doing irreparable damage to them.
We want to wait until the system is completed and ready to handle what we can throw at it. Going with the children analogy, this also means that yes, we can ignore science and knowledge and push our children anyway, and most often, they won’t die. However, their quality of life in the long term will most likely suffer greatly due to the damage inflicted on their immature systems. When a plants quality of life is affected in such a way we see the results in our yields, quality, and overall plant health.
So now we know how water moves into and out of the plant and that we can control the rate of the majority (if not all, we can indirectly impact absorption by not allowing water to evaporate) of this movement. Understanding this also alludes to some pretty big implications which we will go over.
None of this covers nutrients, sap, or the myriad other wonderful processes water is a part of but we’ll get there, water movement is a big topic by itself.
lootznbootz
Well-Known Member
This was so helpful! You helped me see my grow through a different lense!
Here’s the system I purchased.. $212 after taxes.. I’ve seen it available for $150 on sale if anyone is interested and is willing to wait for a sale.
In honor of the RO system coming tomorrow I figured this would be a good time to start discussing water. This is a big topic that spans multiple subject areas, which we will cover as we go along.
Water is a critical component of the grow that many don’t think about beyond ph (or something to mix nutes into if that’s your thing). Up to 90% of a plants weight is water in its cells and cell walls. The properties of water allow it to bypass the plant membrane which is responsible for keeping bad stuff out and good stuff in. Water is so important, plants dedicated millions of years and 3 cellular pathways to perfecting their ability to use it.
Water moves into plants in 2 ways. The first way is transpiration (which can be controlled by us with VPD). Approximately 90 percent of a plant’s water loss happens as a result of evaporation through leaf stomata. This process of evaporation is called transpiration. This indicates that as much as 90 percent of a plant’s water comes into the roots as a result of transpiration. The molecules evaporating from the leaf surface pull up water molecules from below. This, in turn, causes a pressure deficit in the roots that pulls in more water from the soil.
Hydrogen bonds keep water molecules stuck together, also known as cohesion. As one molecule is pulled up through the plant to evaporate off the leaf surface so it pulls the next molecule and the next up with it.
This is regulated by tiny stomata cells embedded in the leaf. These cells are regulated by potassium and trace amounts of chlorine.
The other 10ish percent of water comes in through absorption due to “Root Pressure”. Root pressure occurs when there is more water outside the root than inside it. This difference causes water to flow in the direction that will create a state of equilibrium.
Earlier I mentioned VPD.. VPD stands for Vapor Pressure Deficit. VPD is a measure of how much water is in the air versus the maximum amount of water vapor that can exist in that air. This means that the more humid our environment is, the less our plant can transpire. The dryer our environment is, the more our plant can transpire.
So if our environment is extremely humid, our plants will only be able to take in so much water from the soil because they can only evaporate so much into the air before it becomes fully saturated and won’t hold any more water. On the flip side, when our environment is really dry, the amount of water our plant can take in and evaporate off is incredibly high.
As this transpiration process happens, the plant is working its butt off. It’s using energy to synthesize, move nutrients and sap, and all sorts of complex interactions are happening all while water is being pulled into up and out of it. The more your plants are transpiring the harder they are working. This is knowledge we can leverage.
In the beginning we don’t want to drive our plants very hard, they’re still getting their roots, and establishing themselves in this world. As our plants age and mature though they become capable of handling more and more until eventually we find ourselves in flower pushing our plants to their limits. Sound like any other life forms you know?
We want our plants to grow in a relaxed environment where their only concern is to eat and get bigger. We don’t want them working their butts off just to keep themselves hydrated nor do we want to try to push our plants processes until they’re ready. Similar to how we don’t allow children to do specific tasks until their bodies have matured or we risk doing irreparable damage to them.
We want to wait until the system is completed and ready to handle what we can throw at it. Going with the children analogy, this also means that yes, we can ignore science and knowledge and push our children anyway, and most often, they won’t die. However, their quality of life in the long term will most likely suffer greatly due to the damage inflicted on their immature systems. When a plants quality of life is affected in such a way we see the results in our yields, quality, and overall plant health.
So now we know how water moves into and out of the plant and that we can control the rate of the majority (if not all, we can indirectly impact absorption by not allowing water to evaporate) of this movement. Understanding this also alludes to some pretty big implications which we will go over.
None of this covers nutrients, sap, or the myriad other wonderful processes water is a part of but we’ll get there, water movement is a big topic by itself.
Keep it coming!
- Thread starter
- #100
Definitely! I felt the same way when I started learning this stuff.. It feels kind of like having X-ray vision.. You can see through the plant to what’s going on inside of it. Like I said in the beginning, if even one person learns something then the journals a success in my eyes. I’ll make sure to keep it coming, and as always if anyone has any questions please feel free to ask away.. If for some reason I don’t have the answer (this rarely happens because I’ll typically go hunt the answer down if I don’t know it lol) there’s at least 4-5 other experienced growers actively watching who can help as well.
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