COorganics TLO BG SCRoG - HPS+MH

[SirFairyDust]

Hydrogen bonds are what causes water to be such a damn good solvent. The hydrogen end of h20 has a higher positive charge while the oxygen end has a higher negative charge so it can leech our charged nutrient ions out. Runoff is not what you want in our situations.

Flushing your soil with insane amounts of water at the end of a plants life is not what you want IMO. It does no more than using plain water in normal amounts. Plants can only take in so much water. There is the waterproof casparian strip which protects the stele of the root and screens what comes in/out. If the water is rejected it exits the roots via the apoplastic pathway(moving cell wall to cell wall) If you flood the rhizosphere with water you are impairing any last minute growth, asking for root rot, and lowering your soils fertility.

This goes much much much much more in depth. I could say much more But if you wanna learn more I suggest teaming with nutrients!

Just my 2 cents on a flush! Also on reamending fertile soils - our plants take nutrients out of the soil to build their tissue - we take out this tissue (only the buds if you compost the leafs) so we need to add it back one way or another!

blessings to all

 

[SirFairyDust]

Brazel LOL odoyle rules ahahaha. Yea those links are boring. In regards to being new - just take in everything you can and ull be straight!

 

[SweetLeef]

Gonne have to read this all a couple more times

Thanks for dropping the knowledge!

 

[SirFairyDust]

ProperGreen - great posts - but don't underestimate fungi on the food chain bro lol! They are the soil magicians remember? There are certain types that are pathogenic to nematodes. There's also another type explained pretty well in this video you should be amazed:

They make the nematodes their bitch!

 

[ProperGreen]

Hmmm?! Enlighten Us Brother.

Hydrogen bonds are what causes water to be such a damn good solvent. The hydrogen end of h20 has a higher positive charge while the oxygen end has a higher negative charge so it can leech our charged nutrient ions out. Runoff is not what you want in our situations.

Flushing your soil with insane amounts of water at the end of a plants life is not what you want IMO. It does no more than using plain water in normal amounts. Plants can only take in so much water. There is the waterproof casparian strip which protects the stele of the root and screens what comes in/out. If the water is rejected it exits the roots via the apoplastic pathway(moving cell wall to cell wall) If you flood the rhizosphere with water you are impairing any last minute growth, asking for root rot, and lowering your soils fertility.

This goes much much much much more in depth. I could say much more But if you wanna learn more I suggest teaming with nutrients!

Just my 2 cents on a flush! Also on reamending fertile soils - our plants take nutrients out of the soil to build their tissue - we take out this tissue (only the buds if you compost the leafs) so we need to add it back one way or another!

blessings to all

So why do you think flushing would be flooding the rhizosphere rather than rinsing it, or leaching it?
I'm lost here because it seems that you wouldn't be able to flood the rhizosphere unless it was sitting in water, which it wouldn't be. So dumping copious amounts of water on the soil over a period of an hour or so, doesn't seem like it would induce root rot when you think about it logically.
I was thinking we may be able to rinse anything through thats been mineralized, but isn't desired at the moment by our plants, so it's sort of just in the soil and could be used within the final day or two potentially.
Not pumping the plants full of water tho! Waiting on JJ to hear his logic on that! Your respone to that seemed logical in reading it and not knowing the info you share in regards!
But remember I used to water in two sessions about an hour apart, and I always got runoff, and never had root rot?
That's one reason I don't see eye to eye in regards to root rot part of the last post, and since you wouldn't be watering more often, or watering a water-logged soil. Seems ppl who grow with salts(synthetic mineral nutes) wouldn't flush if the risk was so much, yet it's the general consensus that you must flush when growing that way.
I'm just trying to think with an open mind as to anyway that flushing might translate over to organics, since I've seen it suggested but just don't get it.
You know I've never flushed and you have smoked as much, if not more of my herb than I have!

Also, why don't we want runoff in an organic situation based on what you've learned lol? I don't get that either!
Because I've learned that soils high in organic matter, specifically humus content, will have a high CEC, therefore grabbing and holding onto all of these various cations and anions, and exchanging them as well, and you want a little runoff each time to be sure that you've saturated the medium.
But it sounds like I need to unlearn some things, or go back to the book to revisit what I once thought I knew lol. Enlighten me brother!

& Blessings

 

[SirFairyDust]

Root rot would be the least of your worries but I added it in there just because its possible depending on how you flush. Don't most people when they flush water everyday with runoff for like the last week? That was my understanding. So in that case, your soil would be pretty much as wet as possible for the last week(2 for some people) and never dry out. So in that case the tissue before the casparian strip would be completely saturated for a week or 2. So IMO you've never flushed. So you are saying flushing is the same watering schedule just with a little extra runoff?

I was always under the impression that in organics plants were in control and during the end of senescence wouldn't exactly uptake a bunch of nutrients even if available and make the bud harsh all of a sudden. In that stage of life it's focused on things like chlorophyll degrading, ect. Root cells pump hydrogen ions (h+) to help transport molecules across the cellular membrane. These ions accumulate on the cell wall and exchange with cations in the soil. The plant will produce these when it wants. Along with mucilages(which influences the uptake of nutrients) and exudates(microbe food) ceasing.THE PLANT IS IN CONTROL! Always remember that bro.

I also thought humus was not sold in stores and everything that was is not real humus (organic matter unable to breakdown further in its situation). But the real humus can generate negatively charged sites which hold onto cations. As far as runoff the higher the CEC( The ability of a soil to hold CATIONS) the better but you are still going to be leeching ions with a good bit of runoff as we don't use pure humus. The positive or negative end of the h20 will grip onto these cations/anions and leech them out.

CEC is measured from 0-100, 100 being pure real humus. Going further than the ability to hold cations, it's a test to see how many of these negatively charged sites are present in a soil particle so you can tell how many cations it can hold onto.

You want to fully saturate the soil but with as little runoff as possible. Whenever you water in organics it's sorta like water is the fertilizer as its bringing all of those ion nutrients in better contact with the roots. So why would you want to drain these molecules is what I don't get(well I do, but I don't) because you are lowering the amount of nutrients in the soil for the next run

Edit: honestly if you are confused about this situation by the end of teaming with nutrients you will understand way better than anything I/anybody here can explain! Next time we chill in real life we will go over all this and I'll be able to explain it 10000% better in person

 

[SirFairyDust]

Going onto synthetic salt users - don't put them in our category. Flushing in organics(which i dont think is possible as you already know) is different from hydro and synthetics flushing.

Blessings to all I hope I made a little sense lol!!!

Edit: coorganics sorry for wasting space with the discussion lol. Great looking plants BTW nice and healthy man!!

 

[PeeJay]

Many growers think of a flush as something that's good in the last two weeks, or as something to do when things go drastically wrong. Not many grasp the notion that flushing is a way to prevent big problems from happening in the first place. I'm prone to analogies, and I'm going to nauseate anyone who actually reads my drivel with an analogy now.

Someone feeds me breakfast every day. Usually it's the same thing, a big bowl of Total breakfast flakes fortified with eleven different vitamins and minerals. They give me a nice big portion. I don't finish it all. The next day I'm given another nice big portion of Total. The leftover uneaten Total is still in the bowl from the day before. I eat roughly the same amount of Total as I did the day before. The amount of uneaten total in the bowl doubles. The next day I get another big serving of total dumped on top of two days worth of left-over Total... You can, I'm sure, see where we're headed...

When we mix up our nutes, brew and feed teas, top dress, etc, plants growing in a container, we are dumping "Total" into a bowl. All of the eleven essential Vitamins and Minerals that aren't used by the plant stay in the bowl. Over time the concentration of some or all of the Vitamins and Minerals increases and increases. It can get quite toxic. An animal pees the extra out. Plants can't really pee. When we pee, we flush the unnecessary extra Vitamins and Minerals away. *Imagine the sound of a toilet flush*

In a container plant environment there are a bazillion bacteria and fungi living. They are breaking down organic material. Just like humans they poop and pee. Large microbiological populations commonly die off because the end up drowning in their own piss and shit.

Striving to give a container plant exactly what it needs, no more and no less, is a lofty and unrealistic goal. Some things are going to build up. Many of them are "salts." These "salts" tend to end up in the lower root zone. Salts are water soluble. They are washed to the lower root zone of our bowl containers. If you water and feed and never let any water drain from the bottom of the pot it only compounds the problem. No poop, pee, or salts get washed out at all.

Flushing is not something to do only when there is an obvious problem. It is something that should be done periodically as a prophylactic (preventative) measure. It does not matter if you are an organic container gardener, growing with chemical nutrients, doing hydro... A flush here and there is a good thing.

 

[SirFairyDust]

Microbes dying in their own exudates? Never heard of that, can you point me to a link? I can't see these problems occurring in organic gardening unless there's some serious overkill amendments going on. Fungi also are extracellular metabolizers (secret enzymes and acids) to decompose matter then gobbling up some of the soup they produced.

You need to keep a close eye on your pH of everything you add. Salts are produced from two ions neutralizing each other. When put into water salts dissolve and split(hydroxyl) the h20. This is create obvious pH problems and nutrient lockouts. With that being said salts are necessary for plant nutrition but like you said you don't want an excess. The thing is in synthetics many fertilizers are salts that you are adding. I think this is why flushing helps so much for synthetics. In organics - it's all what you add. If you overkill things, randomly add things, there will be problems. If you have a clean closed loop soil (adding for the buds you take out) with h20 only salt excesses are kept to a bare minimum.

I'm not against a little runoff but its when you start pouring gallons that I'm over here in slow-mo like NOOOOOO.

As far as the cereal - it's all what you add! You should strive for unrealistic goals those are the only goals I set!

Thanks for the input - please put me in my place with some links brotha! I love when someone teaches me something I previously didn't know/ was taught the wrong info in the 1st place.

 

[ProperGreen]

Root rot would be the least of your worries but I added it in there just because its possible depending on how you flush. Don't most people when they flush water everyday with runoff for like the last week? That was my understanding. So in that case, your soil would be pretty much as wet as possible for the last week(2 for some people) and never dry out. So in that case the tissue before the casparian strip would be completely saturated for a week or 2. So IMO you've never flushed. So you are saying flushing is the same watering schedule just with a little extra runoff?

I was always under the impression that in organics plants were in control and during the end of senescence wouldn't exactly uptake a bunch of nutrients even if available and make the bud harsh all of a sudden. In that stage of life it's focused on things like chlorophyll degrading, ect. Root cells pump hydrogen ions (h+) to help transport molecules across the cellular membrane. These ions accumulate on the cell wall and exchange with cations in the soil. The plant will produce these when it wants. Along with mucilages(which influences the uptake of nutrients) and exudates(microbe food) ceasing.THE PLANT IS IN CONTROL! Always remember that bro.

I also thought humus was not sold in stores and everything that was is not real humus (organic matter unable to breakdown further in its situation). But the real humus can generate negatively charged sites which hold onto cations. As far as runoff the higher the CEC( The ability of a soil to hold CATIONS) the better but you are still going to be leeching ions with a good bit of runoff as we don't use pure humus. The positive or negative end of the h20 will grip onto these cations/anions and leech them out.

CEC is measured from 0-100, 100 being pure real humus. Going further than the ability to hold cations, it's a test to see how many of these negatively charged sites are present in a soil particle so you can tell how many cations it can hold onto.

You want to fully saturate the soil but with as little runoff as possible. Whenever you water in organics it's sorta like water is the fertilizer as its bringing all of those ion nutrients in better contact with the roots. So why would you want to drain these molecules is what I don't get(well I do, but I don't) because you are lowering the amount of nutrients in the soil for the next run

Edit: honestly if you are confused about this situation by the end of teaming with nutrients you will understand way better than anything I/anybody here can explain! Next time we chill in real life we will go over all this and I'll be able to explain it 10000% better in person

Hmm, I have never thought that flushing meant watering everyday with runoff...Never seen that and don't know where you got it from.
The "flushing" that I know of is using 3x the amount of water of your pot size, i.e if you grow in a 3 gallon pot, you water with 9 gallons of water. I've never learned it any differently.

And I didn't say that I've ever flushed. I said that you know that I've never flushed and that you've probably smoked more of my herb than I have, but that I'm just trying to understand if there may be any benefit to flushing and organic system.
But I am saying that flushing is watering on a normal schedule, but doing so with an exponential amount of water, at the end of the growing season. People who grow with chemicals, like the GreenHouse Seeds guys for example, do two flushes. One mid season and one after the growing season.

I think the same as you tho about the plants being in control in the organic situation. That's a fact that can be checked.
Lol, I don't get why you're telling me to ALWAYS remember this when I've told you this several months ago lol.

And Ancient Forest is stable humus, as is other forest humus product you can buy like Alaska Humus. And I agree in regards to what humus is, but what do you mean you thought things that you can buy in stores isn't "real" humus? What makes you think that?
What's with you all of a sudden as to what's "real" and what's not ?
Something you seen or read somewhere that I don't know about?

And I'm curious also as to which "ion nutrients" we're draining? I def. need a better explanation lol! Not just for me tho, but for everyone that might see this!
I'm curious as to what you think in regards to "lowering the amounts of nutrients in the soil for the next run".
As far as I've learned, that doesn't make sense to me.
What I've learned is that bacteria, archaea and fungi in the soil lock up the nutrients within, and that the larger microbes up the food chain free these nutrients by eating these smaller microbes...Thoughts?
My idea in flushing would be to rinse anything build up on thru.

Going onto synthetic salt users - don't put them in our category. Flushing in organics(which i dont think is possible as you already know) is different from hydro and synthetics flushing.

Blessings to all I hope I made a little sense lol!!!

Edit: coorganics sorry for wasting space with the discussion lol. Great looking plants BTW nice and healthy man!!

Bro....

Lol.

If I didn't think it was relevant, I wouldn't have mentioned it!

& Blessings!

 

[shottafire]

Im confused here. He said she said.

 

[ProperGreen]

Many growers think of a flush as something that's good in the last two weeks, or as something to do when things go drastically wrong. Not many grasp the notion that flushing is a way to prevent big problems from happening in the first place. I'm prone to analogies, and I'm going to nauseate anyone who actually reads my drivel with an analogy now.

Someone feeds me breakfast every day. Usually it's the same thing, a big bowl of Total breakfast flakes fortified with eleven different vitamins and minerals. They give me a nice big portion. I don't finish it all. The next day I'm given another nice big portion of Total. The leftover uneaten Total is still in the bowl from the day before. I eat roughly the same amount of Total as I did the day before. The amount of uneaten total in the bowl doubles. The next day I get another big serving of total dumped on top of two days worth of left-over Total... You can, I'm sure, see where we're headed...

When we mix up our nutes, brew and feed teas, top dress, etc, plants growing in a container, we are dumping "Total" into a bowl. All of the eleven essential Vitamins and Minerals that aren't used by the plant stay in the bowl. Over time the concentration of some or all of the Vitamins and Minerals increases and increases. It can get quite toxic. An animal pees the extra out. Plants can't really pee. When we pee, we flush the unnecessary extra Vitamins and Minerals away. *Imagine the sound of a toilet flush*

In a container plant environment there are a bazillion bacteria and fungi living. They are breaking down organic material. Just like humans they poop and pee. Large microbiological populations commonly die off because the end up drowning in their own piss and shit.

Striving to give a container plant exactly what it needs, no more and no less, is a lofty and unrealistic goal. Some things are going to build up. Many of them are "salts." These "salts" tend to end up in the lower root zone. Salts are water soluble. They are washed to the lower root zone of our bowl containers. If you water and feed and never let any water drain from the bottom of the pot it only compounds the problem. No poop, pee, or salts get washed out at all.

Flushing is not something to do only when there is an obvious problem. It is something that should be done periodically as a prophylactic (preventative) measure. It does not matter if you are an organic container gardener, growing with chemical nutrients, doing hydro... A flush here and there is a good thing.

This was the answer I was looking for.
Something along these lines as it makes sense based on all that I've learned.
I was wondering about trying to leech out any buildup!


& Blessings!

Ps, Are you speaking from a theorhetical standpoint, or have you flushed previously?!
I really think I'll be cheating myself if I don't try it at least once, kinda like the bud washing situation.
I don't think I need to do it, but I have to try to see if there's a noticeable improvement!

 

[SirFairyDust]

What lol it's not they are feeding the plants we are feeding the soil lol!

As far as what's real - it's just a coincidence lol! If you say that I believe you - in my head someone along the way said a 100 on the CEC humus you can't buy in stores and its stuck with me.

Pardon if I ever sound like a dick or anything of that nature! You know how it is on the forums - I'm just trying to get taught info that other people know as fact that I don't!

And on the ions - I can't even start to explain it better than the book. When a plant available nutrient is in the soil prior to bring reingested it can be picked up by h20 depending on many factors like microbes, CEC exchange, ect. That's the easiest way I see it.

Edit: and green you should flush like half of your plants to see if you notice anything. Try to do it blindly so you won't be biased. The rationale for me with the runoff is the bin hasn't seem runoff - ever(over a year) . + the plants doing just fine. I'm even agreeing that I probably over killed it on amendments. Can't wait to see if it turns out smooth or harsh. That'll be the turning point for me.

 

[ProperGreen]

Im confused here. He said she said.

If it really matters to you, investigate and forum your own opinions, or come to your own conclusions. Right? I mean, we are here to discuss things that we're unsure about? Right? We're men here, so there's no he said she said involved.

& Blessings

 

[PeeJay]

Microbes dying in their own exudates? Never heard of that, can you point me to a link?

You need to keep a close eye on your pH of everything you add. Salts are produced from two ions neutralizing each other. When put into water salts dissolve and split(hydroxyl) the h20. This is create obvious pH problems and nutrient lockouts. With that being said salts are necessary for plant nutrition but like you said you don't want an excess. The thing is in synthetics many fertilizers are salts that you are adding. I think this is why flushing helps so much for synthetics. In organics - it's all what you add. If you overkill things, randomly add things, there will be problems. If you have a clean closed loop soil (adding for the buds you take out) salt excesses are kept to a minimum.

I'm not against a little runoff but its when you start pouring gallons that I'm over here in slow-mo like NOOOOOO.

As far as the cereal - it's all what you add! You should strive for unrealistic goals those are the only goals I set!

Thanks for the input - please put me in my place with some links brotha! I love when someone teaches me something I previously didn't know/ was taught the wrong info in the 1st place.

Meh. Google it yerself. In a container you are growing in what amounts to a closed environment - soil wise. In the great outdoors the earth is deep- there is a huge leech field (we're talking ridiculously huge.) Still people will over-amend soil frequently outdoors.

Weed growers in particular have this notion that if they dump more food in the bowl they will get a healthier plant. "Organics" folks are some of the worst. It's "organic" I'll dump some of this, and that, and the other in there. It cracks me up.

SFD, you are deluding yourself if you if you think all bacterial metabolic wastes are good for plants. It's a matter of degrees, really. An excess of nitrogen fixing organisms leaves behind urea, ammonia, etc. That's good right? It depends on how much. Too much of the metabolically available (to the plant) becomes a hindrance to growth instead of a boon. And, the build-up of those wastes leads to the nitrogen fixers "drowning" in their own shit. This is just one example.

Another biggie in the closed metabolic eco-system of container growing is the build-up of alcohols and acids. It's just what happens if you have a lot of lil' critters going on. It does not matter a lick if you are brewing microbial teas and dumping them on the dirt all the time. The soil will support what it supports. As acids, alcohols, ionized salts continue to build up (you are kidding yourself if you think they aren't) they are going to KILL most of the bacteria you grow in your fancy bubbling bucket. Dead!

Anyone who wants to screw around with pH meters growing in soil, be my guest. I'd rather sit back and feed my plants RO water or rain water. I'll let the soil do the work and avoid the temptation to give them a baggie full of vitamin tablets, or charred eggshells, chicken poop, bacteria cultures, consultations with a psychic, or a dose of my own piss. I will reset (somewhat) the balance of my growing medium with a good flush now and then.

 

[ProperGreen]

Microbes dying in their own exudates? Never heard of that, can you point me to a link? I can't see these problems occurring in organic gardening unless there's some serious overkill amendments going on. Fungi also are extracellular metabolizers (secret enzymes and acids) to decompose matter then gobbling up some of the soup they produced.

You need to keep a close eye on your pH of everything you add. Salts are produced from two ions neutralizing each other. When put into water salts dissolve and split(hydroxyl) the h20. This is create obvious pH problems and nutrient lockouts. With that being said salts are necessary for plant nutrition but like you said you don't want an excess. The thing is in synthetics many fertilizers are salts that you are adding. I think this is why flushing helps so much for synthetics. In organics - it's all what you add. If you overkill things, randomly add things, there will be problems. If you have a clean closed loop soil (adding for the buds you take out) with h20 only salt excesses are kept to a bare minimum.

I'm not against a little runoff but its when you start pouring gallons that I'm over here in slow-mo like NOOOOOO.

As far as the cereal - it's all what you add! You should strive for unrealistic goals those are the only goals I set!

Thanks for the input - please put me in my place with some links brotha! I love when someone teaches me something I previously didn't know/ was taught the wrong info in the 1st place.

Nutrients are released when microbes die. You can find that anywhere on the internet and fact check it.
Teaming with Microbes will tell you that too. I thought you said you read it lol. If you did, that wouldn't confuse you lol.

Also, when have you ever seen my pH ANYTHING? Or have a nutrient lockout for that matter? Other than my very first run?
Seems like you did a 180 since I left town. Did Teaming With Nutrients make you change the way you see things that much lol?

What lol it's not they are feeding the plants we are feeding the soil lol!

As far as what's real - it's just a coincidence lol! If you say that I believe you - in my head someone along the way said a 100 on the CEC humus you can't buy in stores and its stuck with me.

Pardon if I ever sound like a dick or anything of that nature! You know how it is on the forums - I'm just trying to get taught info that other people know as fact that I don't!

And on the ions - I can't even start to explain it better than the book. When a plant available nutrient is in the soil prior to bring reingested it can be picked up by h20 depending on many factors like microbes, CEC exchange, ect. That's the easiest way I see it.

Edit: and green you should flush like half of your plants to see if you notice anything. Try to do it blindly so you won't be biased

And don't just believe me lol. Check the things out that I say, and try and prove me wrong! That way we get to the point faster.
Here you go again with this someone along the way stuff lol. It's like you say these things like they're fact initially, but then you say afterwards that someone said it somewhere along the way and it stuck.
It's not that you sound like a dick, is more so that you sound like a professor rather than a student, which we all are, but the things your saying sort of go against the grain more than they don't...But the norm is meant to be challenged right?
I a little frustrated with you lol, if you since that in my tone, but it's all good. And it's all love.
I'm not gonna drag this conversation on lol, unless I feel it's going somewhere, which right now I kinda don't.
I think we stopped preogressing and started dancing!

& Blessings!

Ps, I think between the group of us here, we need to go ahead and start a thread to discuss all things organic!
One day is my thread, one day is CO's and one day it's PeeJay lol.

 

[ProperGreen]

Meh. Google it yerself. In a container you are growing in what amounts to a closed environment - soil wise. In the great outdoors the earth is deep- there is a huge leech field (we're talking ridiculously huge.) Still people will over-amend soil frequently outdoors.

Weed growers in particular have this notion that if they dump more food in the bowl they will get a healthier plant. "Organics" folks are some of the worst. It's "organic" I'll dump some of this, and that, and the other in there. It cracks me up.

SFD, you are deluding yourself if you if you think all bacterial metabolic wastes are good for plants. It's a matter of degrees, really. An excess of nitrogen fixing organisms leaves behind urea, ammonia, etc. That's good right? It depends on how much. Too much of the metabolically available (to the plant) becomes a hindrance to growth instead of a boon. And, the build-up of those wastes leads to the nitrogen fixers "drowning" in their own shit. This is just one example.

Another biggie in the closed metabolic eco-system of container growing is the build-up of alcohols and acids. It's just what happens if you have a lot of lil' critters going on. It does not matter a lick if you are brewing microbial teas and dumping them on the dirt all the time. The soil will support what it supports. As acids, alcohols, ionized salts continue to build up (you are kidding yourself if you think they aren't) they are going to KILL most of the bacteria you grow in your fancy bubbling bucket. Dead!

Anyone who wants to screw around with pH meters growing in soil, be my guest. I'd rather sit back and feed my plants RO water or rain water. I'll let the soil do the work and avoid the temptation to give them a baggie full of vitamin tablets, or charred eggshells, chicken poop, bacteria cultures, consultations with a psychic, or a dose of my own piss. I will reset (somewhat) the balance of my growing medium with a good flush now and then.

Should we start a thread so we can discuss these things lol. Call it an organics hangout or something were we can share cited info vs opinions. Would you participate in it?
And nice to know that you flush and that it works for you. That's the first time that I've heard from an organic guy that he flushes, but it's promising news.

Also, I don't agree with pHing anything, but topdressing the soil only makes since, be it "charred egg shells", kelp meal, alfalfa meal, crab shell meal, or soft rock phosphate, or bat guano even. This to me goes back to no being able to "feed" the soil exactly what it wants, just like you can't possibly think that you're "feeding" a plant exactly what you want.
Seems like you have something against that as well as cultures and what not based on your tone? And that's fine, but it involves cutting off your learning when you write those things off.
You can "sit back and watch" what happens with the plants sure, but if you run into any deficiencies with organic plants, that deficiency won't be a quick fix thing like with synthetics. Unless you're in veg and can still foliar. Then again, maybe you can foliar in flower since you wash your buds..

But back to that threat that we should make! What do you think about it?


& Blessings

 

[Icemud]

Hey CoOrganics!!! Wow I really missed out on some great soil/microbe discussion. Just read the last 5 pages and there is a wealth of information here !!!! Great job everyone on sharing what you know!!!

I hope you don't mind me posting this video, but I believe it is a great video on topic with everything that all of you have been discussing over the past 5 pages. Hope that it helps everyone learn more about microbiology

[video=youtube_share;eGxjcxVMbsg]

[/video]

 

[PeeJay]

My only "thing" is keeping it real. I'm not against top-dressing, foliar feeding, brewing teas, adding Bud Builder x-57, or anything else. For me it is all about KISS (keep it simple, stupid.) There is a tendency to over-think, in my opinion.

We could have a thread, "all about organics" but I doubt I'd hang out there. Hanging out with "organics" folks would be like hanging out with a bunch of theologians.

For me the story of building a complete soil is one of simplicity, not increased complexity.

 

[SirFairyDust]

I agree that most growers think more is better. Definitely not the case.

And deluding lol. All I'm saying is for you to have microbial populations die off in response to these toxins is unrealistic unless you overkill the soil with too much food(even then, who knows). I only use h20 in my setup, no runoff, and you wouldn't believe the ecosystem. Millipedes, earthworms, all the way down the chain. So before really researching soil I amended this bin many times. Beyond overkill. Yet everything's still thriving without any runoff ever. So that leads me to believe I must have insane amounts of salts , acids , any other toxin plant growth impairing molecules right? Yet I put a plant in it and I've never grown anything happier, so this is why I'm biased in that subject.

If you want to flush that's all good. We are all different. This is why everyone's product comes out different in the end. Different aspects and opinions. I love it like that! If you wanna sit there and water that's what's up. I'll be over here doing my own thing.

Edit: and green yeah I've changed my perception on some stuff from the book. But I know about microbes, just never heard of their toxins building up and killing off microbe populations. In terms of pH, it's not necessary AT ALL. but I think it's cool now that I've learned a little more about it. I used to think it was retarded. Now i think it's just a safeguard for lockouts. And any arguing about soil only cracks me up not urks me. It's all love no matter what anybody says because in the end we are all growing some FIRE