Leaf curl & death - Not pH - Not temp - Not nutes?

[photos]

root rot ,root bound ,root problem

 

[Duggan]

I'm a lil surprised they made it this far , if there's no drainage holes...pretty big tote though so maybe they coulda made it this far.

 

[Major PITA]

Angry.. .McCdive... I need more info. DBHBB ? If your enviro is proper , ie , lighting , temps (day and night), RH, between 40-70, proper watering technique, good ventilation..then it's the roots , check the roots, what do they look like...can you safely get a look at them or will ya interfere too much with the others. You mentioned no bugs in soil...are you SURE about that..have a really good look. I once had an infestation of root aphids that almost destroyed a crop, right before harvest...so make sure of this right now OK.....standing by!

Do you have drainage in the bottom tray/container?

I didn't see any and, if there wasn't, there should be, and it's likely root rot.

Yes, exactly Krip, those roots are messed up , for sure , they have to be. I just assumed there were drainage holes....are there ??

I'm a lil surprised they made it this far , if there's no drainage holes...pretty big tote though so maybe they coulda made it this far.

This is a hydro grow guys!

 

[DeanB]

Re-potting 4 weeks into flower was probably too late. I go for re-potting 2 weeks before the flip to flower. I will be surprised if they make it, best of luck.

 

[Mr. Krip]

This is a hydro grow guys!

We can argue about soil or hydro later. For now, let's just agree it's a 70/30 coco perlite mix. Initially he was in #5 SmartPots and, it appears, he was doing drain-to-waste into the bottom tray, which would NOT have had any drainage (or it would have been pretty useless to hold the run-off! ).

He then, apparently, transplanted into the bottom tray directly.

I did not see any drain holes, nor did I see a drain for a flood & drain or ebb & flow system.

My analysis stands, if there's no drainage, there should be and if not, it's likely root rot!

 

[DeanB]

8/15/16 :surrender: I got too arrogant and cocky and thought I could fix this myself. ​Wrong!
4 weeks into flower and I'm having issues!

What Strain is it? Nirvana - Supreme CBD Kush
Is it Indica, Sativa or Hybrid? What percentages? 70/30 Sativa
How Many Plants? 2
Is it in Vegetative or Flowering Stage? Flower
If in Vegetative Stage... How Long? 6-7 weeks?? weeks
If in Flowering Stage... How Long? 4 weeks
Indoor or Outdoor? indoor
Soil or Hydro? Hydro
If Hydro, Reservoir size? started with 5 gal. smart pots
If Hydro, Reservoir Temperature? 74-78f
If Hydro, what type of Medium? 70/30 coco/perlite
If Hydro, what type of Setup? DTW - nutes mixed 50 gal. at a time
Size (Wattage) of Light? How Many? 2X Mars 2 900 watt (730 true watt X 2)
Is it Air Cooled? Yes
Temperature of Room/Cabinet? 78 - 84f
RH of Room/Cabinet?60-75%
PH of Medium or Reservoir? 5.9
Any Pests? No
How Often are you Watering? daily
Type and Strength of Fertilizers used? SNS 209 13.5 oz per 50 gal.
Size or Square Footage of Room? 30"X60"X78"


The nutes: GH Flora Nova Bloom
Canna Cannazyme
GH CaLimajic
GH Koolbloom
GO Bio Root
SuperThrive

All this combined with the SNS 209 are mixed to a total TDS of 1170 ppm with a Ph of 5.7-5.9 and hand fed once a night an hour after 'lights on'. This mixture has worked well for me for the last 7-8 strains and a couple dozen plants with little or no issue, so I'm at a loss.

At this point, I have been loosing leafs for about 3 weeks on my two girls. It started on the lowest fan leafs and soon into the lower, young growth. It's working it's way rather quickly up now. Past the SCROG and working it's way outward as well!
I did have a PH issue while in veg, but quickly got that worked out. (it had dropped to 5.4 for a couple days)
I fixed the Ph and things seemed okay for a bit, but then larger leaves started dropping off while still green. Curl up overnight and then drop off. First thing I did was to flush the pots well with FloraKlean and then back to feeding. It seemed to slow down, but maybe that was wishful thinking. I let a few more days go by and then thought they might be root bound! I opened up one pot and it seemed stuffed so I opened up the other. The two pots are in a 8"x24"x48" drip tray so I made an end stop where the drain is and filled the tray with 20 more gallons of coco/perlite and fed the shit out of them with an added extra Bioroot. The problem continues still tonight.
I should add that being the middle of summer here, a couple days here and there have caused the room to hit higher temps for 4-6 hours at a time (84-92) but no sudden changes. any advice would be welcome here.
The repotting:

I've had a couple growing buds give their 2 cents and we still got zilch!
Any clues out there, My 420 buds???

Andy.

This may help

 

[Major PITA]

I came to the same conclusion about it being a root problem. I too think it is root rot. But since I don't do or follow hydro grows, I wasn't sure about why other than too wet / not enough air.

 

[Duggan]

I came to the same conclusion about it being a root problem. I too think it is root rot. But since I don't do or follow hydro grows, I wasn't sure about why other than too wet / not enough air.

Yes Major, that's what i said at the start , there is something wrong with the roots. Now that we know how they were grown, there is NO doubt now. The other plants will survive if transplanted into a proper pot with holes. This was a costly lesson to learn , but it was learned so that 's the positive here. McCdive, how do the others look now? Can they be saved?

 

[McCdive]

Okay,guys, I appreciate all the input here. I'd like to point out that this problem was already well on it's way while in 5 gallon smart pots and the canopy was 242" below the lights.
no, there are no holes in the tray, other than the one at the end that goes to waste at the bottom of the tray. They are not drowning in nutes.
I did a little digging around in the tray as per duggan's question on bugs. I found none. What I did find was that the media was still moist down a couple inches even after having not been fed for 3 days now. I can tell you that without a doubt, this was not the case in the smart pots. They were dry after 24 hours and ready to be fed again.
I have to run out the door, but here are a couple pics of my roots as they are this afternoon. I know it's hard to see, but all I found was new growth in all 4 corners and narry a bug.

Gotta run!!!!
Thanks, Andy.

 

[AngryBird]

Thank yo guys for coming to rescue
and the last post THIS is not hydro. I have spoken about roots too...

 

[McCdive]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'not hydro', Angry Bird,
Here are some clones that are 3+ weeks into flower and doing well. The girls in the smaller tent (2) started off the same way. 5 gallon pots. I opened the pots up because I was afraid they were root bound. I then added 20 or so gallons of coco & perlite to the tray. With the size of the plants and the scrog netting, repotting was not an option. It's still soilless, just not conventional! lol

Here are the clones. Cheese and Supreme CBD Kush. 7 of each. A couple others are headed outside for the duration.

So if I'm doing something wrong with this other batch, please speak up! I don't want a repeat of the shit I'm in now!!

BTW, note that 5 gallon bucket with leaves in it? It's compacted down and took one week to fill off the sick plants. Disgusting. :-(

I'll just leave them to dry out some more and see what happens.......

Thanks, everyone!
Andy

 

[Mr. Krip]

It's a great setup, Brother! +REPS!

The coco retains a lot of moisture, but between the coco and SmartPots, you shouldn't be able to over-water as long as they're not sitting in water in the drip tray.

I'm very partial to Pink Floyd, BTW, but I think I like your "Fly Farm" sign better!

 

[Duggan]

McCdive..how are you tonight brotha, your dying plants are bothering me. Something is wrong and we should be able to solve it!
When you looked for bugs ..did you look very , very closely..root aphids are extremely hard to see cuz they are tiny lil bastards.
If your enviro is proper, your water is OK, no bugs of any kind, no known stress as far as you know. It's not a minor issue..it's catastrophic , so it's a major oversight of some kind.....hmmmm!
Have a great night anyhow McCdive and gang!

 

[AngryBird]

I was just stating the fact that you are growing in soil. Someone said it is hydro..and clearly it is not
The lovely 420 family came to rescue THANK YOU GUYS
and Mr K. Pink Floyd is gooood

 

[photos]

roots my man

 

[McCdive]

I was just stating the fact that you are growing in soil. Someone said it is hydro..and clearly it is not
The lovely 420 family came to rescue THANK YOU GUYS
and Mr K. Pink Floyd is gooood

Okay, Angry Bird. At what point does coco and perlite become soil? I'm completely baffled by you. lol

 

[McCdive]

Okay, folks, eight days have passed and things haven't changed any. The girl on the right is down to less than 50% of what I started with. the one on the left is slightly better with maybe a 35% loss.
In the last 8 days I let the coco dry for four days and then lightly fed them. The coco was mostly dry down the depth of my finger. I left them alone for 2 days and then hit them agian yesterday with a heavier feeding (4 gal. +-). Today the girl on the right is looking bad!
Temps 75-88
RH 60-75%
Ph 5.8
1170 TDS ppm
Here are some pics as I stand tonight.

And for contrast: their children are doing fantastic & starting week 4 of flower.

Not so much as one leaf has fallen off one of them. Same everything except tent. Shared exhaust. Still shaking my head.

The saga continues......

 

[DeanB]

They are root bound. The others are not.

sent from my bong using wake n bake.

 

[AngryBird]

Okay, Angry Bird. At what point does coco and perlite become soil? I'm completely baffled by you. lol

Just a wrong choice of word... I did not see hydro connections so.. it is not hydro....

 

[McCdive]

DeanB, they aren't. They cant be. I quadrupled the room they had to grow in three weeks ago. There is lots of new growth I can see where the new media was added. :-(