Motafina: Master Kush & Bubblegun, Indoor, Supersoil, 3rd Grow

MotaFina said:
Update - Day 67 from seed - Day 2 of 12/12

I finally flipped 'em to 12/12 yesterday! I'm a little worried about headroom. The 1000w HPS runs much hotter than the 400w MH, so I'll need to raise the hood much higher and somehow contain the stretch.

I changed to a feed, feed, tea schedule for now. Once I get to flower, I'll probably drop the tea and just do plain water with SLF 100.

Here's some (crappy) photos:

Tent:
tent_5_7_18.JPG

tent_5_7_18.JPG

Tent shot
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plants_5_7_18.JPG

Plants - just flipped to 12/12
b12_5_7_18.JPG

b12_5_7_18.JPG

Bubbleguns

Bubblegun #2:
b2_5_7_18.JPG

b2_5_7_18.JPG

Bubblegun #2
B2wet_5_7_18.JPG

B2wet_5_7_18.JPG

Bubblegun #2 - after foliar spraying
b2side_5_7_18.JPG

b2side_5_7_18.JPG

Bubblegun #2 - side view

Bubblegun #1:
b1_2_5_7_18.JPG

b1_2_5_7_18.JPG

Bubblegun #1
b1_side_5_7_18.JPG

b1_side_5_7_18.JPG

Bubblegun #1 - side view
b1_5_7_18.JPG

b1_5_7_18.JPG

Bubblegun #1

Humboldt:
Hwet_5_7_18.JPG

Hwet_5_7_18.JPG

Humboldt after foliar spray
h_5_7_18.JPG

h_5_7_18.JPG

Humboldt bagseed
Click to expand...
I have to say you plants look amazing! I wish I knew all the terminology and science but half the time it's a foreign language to me.. hahahah. So confusing but makes me look things up and study them.
 
Phillygrow13 said:
I have to say you plants look amazing! I wish I knew all the terminology and science but half the time it's a foreign language to me.. hahahah. So confusing but makes me look things up and study them.
Click to expand...

Thanks Philly! Back in the day, it was pretty hard learning all this stuff. I remember I did a research paper in my senior year of high school - in '74 - on cultivation. I learned it all from library books and head shops. I don't recall there being much information on indoor growing at that time. Nowadays, you don't have to go any further than a computer (and this site!) to learn what you need to know.
 
Update - Day 74 from seed - Day 10 of 12/12 - Day 3 of flowering:

The Bubbleguns are looking great at this point. I haven't done much other than water them, pull down unruly branches, and readjust the supplemental CFLs so they don't burn the leaves. I top dressed B1 with some fresh supersoil just because I could see some roots showing up top.

I'm determined now to get rid of the Humboldt plant. The Bubbleguns are big enough that the Humboldt is just crowding them in the tent. I can't bring myself to picking it, so I've offered it to a new friend who is contemplating joining the cultivation community. Hopefully we'll make that transfer in a day or two. If not, it's out to the compost heap.

I'm still giving 'grow' nutrients using the Nectar for the Gods line. Yesterday was a tea feeding. I'm using the Cultured Biologic EZ Tea Veg product, which is an 'instant' tea....no bubbling required. I also add SLF 100 on tea days. SLF 100 is an enzyme that is supposed to help break up nutrients that are bound up in the soil.

I'm also still burning the 400w MH bulb. I'll keep that burning until the stretch is over, then switch to the 1000w HPS bulb.

Here's some photos:

Tent shots:
Tent_5_15.JPG

Tent_5_15.JPG

Tent shot
P1110257.JPG

P1110257.JPG

Tent shot

Bubblegun #1:
B1_5_15.JPG

B1_5_15.JPG

Bubblegun #1 in this corner

Bubblegun #2:
B2_5_15.JPG

B2_5_15.JPG

Bubblegun #2 in this corner...

Humboldt:
Humboldt_5_15.JPG

Humboldt_5_15.JPG

Humboldt just crowding everyone else

Pistils:
Pistils1.JPG

Pistils1.JPG

First pistils on B1
Pistils2.JPG

Pistils2.JPG

First pistils on B1
 
Update - Day 81 - Day 16 of 12/12 - Day 9 of flowering

I'm down to just the two Bubbleguns in the tent now. I gave away the Humboldt to a good home.

Not much else to report. I'm watering about every 4th day now based on the wetness of the soil. I fed them with full strength NFTG 'Early Flower' schedule two days ago. They're filling out the tent nicely and should still stretch for about another week.

Here's some more crappy photos - I can't seem to keep my hand steady:

Tent shot:

Tent_5_21_18.JPG

Tent_5_21_18.JPG

Tent shot - 5/21

Bubblegun #1:
B1_5_21_18.JPG

B1_5_21_18.JPG

Bubblegun #1 - 5/21

B1 pistils:
B1Bud_5_21_18.JPG

B1Bud_5_21_18.JPG

B1 beginnings

Bubblegun #2:
B2_5_21_18.JPG

B2_5_21_18.JPG

Bubblegun #2 - 5/21

B2 pistils:
B2Bud_5_21_18.JPG

B2Bud_5_21_18.JPG

B2 beginnings
 
Subbed up Mota! Looks like these will stack pretty well. The next couple weeks are some of my favorites in growing. Looks like you are on the right track!
 
Asesino85 said:
Subbed up Mota! Looks like these will stack pretty well. The next couple weeks are some of my favorites in growing. Looks like you are on the right track!
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking a look, Asesino. I'd say you were right about the lower branches on the trilateral branched plant. Those lower branches never took on much girth. And as a result, they're barely reaching up to the canopy.

Proper update to follow.
 
Update - Day 90 from seed - Day 25 of 12/12 - Day 18 of flower:

I got back from 4-days vacation to find not much changed. So, that's a good thing! I watered heavy before I left and watered again when I returned on Sunday. I installed the 1000w HPS a couple of days ago. So now my photos should be even worse....

With the HPS light in place and the higher summer temps on the way, I'll now need to water every 3 days....and in a week or two more, every other day. I just watered again today with a full-strength NFTG feeding. The plants are just slowly chugging along.

Here's photos:

Tent:
Tent_530.JPG

Tent_530.JPG

Tent shot

Bubblegun #1:
B1_530.JPG

B1_530.JPG

Bubblegun #1

Bubblegun #1 bud:
B1Bud_5_30.JPG

B1Bud_5_30.JPG

Bubblegun #1 Bud

Bubblegun #2:
B2_530.JPG

B2_530.JPG

Bubblegun #2

Bubblegun #2 bud:
B2Bud_530.JPG

B2Bud_530.JPG

Bubblegun #2 bud

Couple more pictures of buds:
BBuds530.JPG

BBuds530.JPG

Couple buds

BBud2_530.JPG

BBud2_530.JPG

B1 Bud
 
Update - Day 96 from seed - Day 31 of 12/12 - Day 24 of flower:

Quick update - plants are still healthy, but I'm definitely not seeing the swelling like I did on the last grow. Bubblegun #2 especially is pretty scraggly looking. Not sure what's up or what would be the difference in this grow other than the strain.

They're smelling wonderful, with big time bubble gum, or maybe 'Juicy Fruit' gum aromas. There's still at least 5, maybe 6 weeks to go, so there's plenty of time for the buds to get some girth. We'll see....

Still on same feeding schedule (feed/feed/flush). Feed = Nectar for the Gods. Flush = SLF 100 + Molasses + Cal-Mag

Here's some photos:

P1110282.JPG

P1110282.JPG

Tent shot

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P1110290.JPG

B1 Bud

P1110289.JPG

P1110289.JPG

B2 Bud

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P1110288.JPG

B2 Bud

P1110287.JPG

P1110287.JPG

B2 Bud

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P1110286.JPG

B1

P1110285.JPG

P1110285.JPG

B2

P1110284.JPG

P1110284.JPG

B1 Bud
 
I'm wondering if I've got a nitrogen toxicity problem. The top parts of the buds have dark green leaves that are shiny and curling downward. That would possibly explain the slow growth of the flowers.

The soil is a supersoil mix and I've been feeding with NFTG. The plants are healthy otherwise, but based on the last grow, I'm expecting them to be about double their current size at this point.

Following this theory, I gave them a heavy feeding of plain water yesterday.
 
Not sure anyone is watching this journal, but some questions on this situation:

  • Why did the plants hermy?
  • Is the Bubblegun strain genetically predisposed to the hermaphrodite trait?
  • Now that the plants have begun seeding, what should I do with them? I have no interest in propagating seeds, especially ones that came as a result of a hermy.
  • Will all the plant’s energy now go towards maturing the seeds? Or can I expect there to be an increase in THC if I let them continue to grow?
  • If I harvest now, is it too early for there to be any useful amount of THC in the trichomes? I haven’t checked but I assume that the trichomes are all or mostly clear.
  • Should I cut my losses, harvest them now and use them to make hash? Or will it be bunk hash?
 
MotaFina said:
Not sure anyone is watching this journal, but some questions on this situation:

  • Why did the plants hermy?
  • Is the Bubblegun strain genetically predisposed to the hermaphrodite trait?
  • Now that the plants have begun seeding, what should I do with them? I have no interest in propagating seeds, especially ones that came as a result of a hermy.
  • Will all the plant’s energy now go towards maturing the seeds? Or can I expect there to be an increase in THC if I let them continue to grow?
  • If I harvest now, is it too early for there to be any useful amount of THC in the trichomes? I haven’t checked but I assume that the trichomes are all or mostly clear.
  • Should I cut my losses, harvest them now and use them to make hash? Or will it be bunk hash?
Click to expand...

Now granted, I'm no expert on any cannabis, I'll give my thoughts.

The plants may have the trait to go hermie. Or some kind of stress caused them to do it. Can't say, really.

I have no idea of the traits of the bubblegum strains....so no help there.

The plants will continue doing what they naturally do, and will put some energy into the seeds, but some strains put on a decent amount of THC too when seeded. Can't say if your strain will do that.

Cloudy is always better for levels of THC, but that is what I've read.

The THC will not be optimum until cloudy. The hash may not be very potent if harvested now.

I can't advise what you should do. I personally would let them go cloudy and harvest. Seeds are a pain, but you may have some decent medication after harvest, the only way to know is to finish them.
 
MotaFina said:
Not sure anyone is watching this journal, but some questions on this situation:

  • Why did the plants hermy?
  • Is the Bubblegun strain genetically predisposed to the hermaphrodite trait?
  • Now that the plants have begun seeding, what should I do with them? I have no interest in propagating seeds, especially ones that came as a result of a hermy.
  • Will all the plant’s energy now go towards maturing the seeds? Or can I expect there to be an increase in THC if I let them continue to grow?
  • If I harvest now, is it too early for there to be any useful amount of THC in the trichomes? I haven’t checked but I assume that the trichomes are all or mostly clear.
  • Should I cut my losses, harvest them now and use them to make hash? Or will it be bunk hash?
Click to expand...

If you saw no sac prior to this and only pistils than your plants likely hermied due to stress. However stress is not totally to blame, likely it is only the trigger. All plants all have a recessive trait of hermaphroditism in them. Any female plant that is too stressed out can shoot out nanners which is why we see even femenized seeds throw out some balls sometimes. Depending on the stability of the genetics is a key to this as well. The more stable the genetics the more stress it is going to take for the plants to herm. This is why it is always hard to blame either genetics or stress because usually it is a combination of both. I'd argue that if your environment is dialed and the plants never get stressed out than you really shouldn't see hermies. I'm talking full hermies, not ones where you get a few seeds here and there.

The only thing that has really changed in your setup to cause stress is the new light. I know you noted that the new light would bring up the temperature a bit and that it was getting warmer where you live. I'm wondering if heat was the trigger here? Did your plants ever get really dry or the tent spike it in heat? Heat has been the only trigger for hermies in my grows. It made my plants dry out too fast and that's when I saw nanners.

I personally would try and pluck the nanners if there isn't a crazy amount. If the whole plant has nanners I think I'd likely get rid of it. I have multiple tents and things going on at all times though so it's easy for me to just get rid of plants. If you don't have that and need to find a way to make this work than you could grow them out and hash them. Nothing you do now will be worthwhile though, the plants aren't mature enough to really have a benefit. Even if you finish them out you might not end up with the best quality stuff either, unless you can pluck them all out and continue to grow them in hopes for no more nanners, then there is a chance. I guess that is up to you on whether it is worth or not if you want to keep them for 9 more week or cut the losses and start over. I'm also all about femenized seeds, just takes most of the guessing out of everything.
 
Bonsaiweed said:
Now granted, I'm no expert on any cannabis, I'll give my thoughts.

The plants may have the trait to go hermie. Or some kind of stress caused them to do it. Can't say, really.

I have no idea of the traits of the bubblegum strains....so no help there.

The plants will continue doing what they naturally do, and will put some energy into the seeds, but some strains put on a decent amount of THC too when seeded. Can't say if your strain will do that.

Cloudy is always better for levels of THC, but that is what I've read.

The THC will not be optimum until cloudy. The hash may not be very potent if harvested now.

I can't advise what you should do. I personally would let them go cloudy and harvest. Seeds are a pain, but you may have some decent medication after harvest, the only way to know is to finish them.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Bansai. I took another look at the plants as they were waking up today. I took a clipping for the microscope and took some pictures. I'm not sure if I'm confused, or it the plant is pollinated. Here are the photos and microscope screen captures.

In the shot below, there are two pods growing off the stalk that look like seed pods. One is on the left side of the stalk near the top of the picture, behind the leaf a little. The other is at the bottom of the picture and is at the node near the middle of the stalk. There are a couple of these pods on each of the bigger branches. On the other plant, there are similar-looking pods within the buds. I'm just guessing that these are seed pods. And it makes sense as it explains the slow growth and lack of new pistils.
6_10_18_1.JPG

6_10_18_1.JPG

Here you can see a couple of what to me look like seed pods very close to the stalk. I also...

Various other photos:
6_10_18_2.JPG

6_10_18_2.JPG

I wish I could get a good picture of the seed pods.

6_10_18_7.JPG

6_10_18_7.JPG


6_10_18_6.JPG

6_10_18_6.JPG


6_10_18_5.JPG

6_10_18_5.JPG


6_10_18_4.JPG

6_10_18_4.JPG


6_10_18_3.JPG

6_10_18_3.JPG


And here are some microscope shots:
6_10_18_8.jpg

6_10_18_8.jpg

This sort of looks like a seed pod. The trichomes are mostly clear.

6_10_B2_1.jpg

6_10_B2_1.jpg

Trichomes - mostly cleary

6_10_B2_2.jpg

6_10_B2_2.jpg

Seed pod?

6_10_B2_3.jpg

6_10_B2_3.jpg

Seed pod?
 
Asesino85 said:
If you saw no sac prior to this and only pistils than your plants likely hermied due to stress. However stress is not totally to blame, likely it is only the trigger. All plants all have a recessive trait of hermaphroditism in them. Any female plant that is too stressed out can shoot out nanners which is why we see even femenized seeds throw out some balls sometimes. Depending on the stability of the genetics is a key to this as well. The more stable the genetics the more stress it is going to take for the plants to herm. This is why it is always hard to blame either genetics or stress because usually it is a combination of both. I'd argue that if your environment is dialed and the plants never get stressed out than you really shouldn't see hermies. I'm talking full hermies, not ones where you get a few seeds here and there.

The only thing that has really changed in your setup to cause stress is the new light. I know you noted that the new light would bring up the temperature a bit and that it was getting warmer where you live. I'm wondering if heat was the trigger here? Did your plants ever get really dry or the tent spike it in heat? Heat has been the only trigger for hermies in my grows. It made my plants dry out too fast and that's when I saw nanners.

I personally would try and pluck the nanners if there isn't a crazy amount. If the whole plant has nanners I think I'd likely get rid of it. I have multiple tents and things going on at all times though so it's easy for me to just get rid of plants. If you don't have that and need to find a way to make this work than you could grow them out and hash them. Nothing you do now will be worthwhile though, the plants aren't mature enough to really have a benefit. Even if you finish them out you might not end up with the best quality stuff either, unless you can pluck them all out and continue to grow them in hopes for no more nanners, then there is a chance. I guess that is up to you on whether it is worth or not if you want to keep them for 9 more week or cut the losses and start over. I'm also all about femenized seeds, just takes most of the guessing out of everything.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response Asesino. The weird thing here is that I have never seen any nanners OR male pods. The plants are big though so it would have been easy to miss a single male flower on some node somewhere. I think if it hermied, it did it very early, since I'm just at the end of week 4 and I started thinking I was seeing seed pods a couple of weeks ago. So they would have started developing right at the start.

I didn't have any serious heat event, but I did move my timer over a few days recently. But again, I think pollination would have occurred before that. Same with moving to the 1000w light. That happened too recently to have been a factor.

Whatever the cause, I need to first of all confirm that they are indeed seed pods, and then determine what to do with the crop. I'm thinking of drying a single top bud off each plant to examine it more closely. If there a LOT of seeds, then it might be best to pull the plug and try again. But if there are only a few seeds, then maybe the plant will start pushing out new pistils and resume building THC-laden trichomes. That's my hope anyways.
 
MotaFina said:
Thanks for the response Asesino. The weird thing here is that I have never seen any nanners OR male pods. The plants are big though so it would have been easy to miss a single male flower on some node somewhere. I think if it hermied, it did it very early, since I'm just at the end of week 4 and I started thinking I was seeing seed pods a couple of weeks ago. So they would have started developing right at the start.

I didn't have any serious heat event, but I did move my timer over a few days recently. But again, I think pollination would have occurred before that. Same with moving to the 1000w light. That happened too recently to have been a factor.

Whatever the cause, I need to first of all confirm that they are indeed seed pods, and then determine what to do with the crop. I'm thinking of drying a single top bud off each plant to examine it more closely. If there a LOT of seeds, then it might be best to pull the plug and try again. But if there are only a few seeds, then maybe the plant will start pushing out new pistils and resume building THC-laden trichomes. That's my hope anyways.
Click to expand...

Usually it won't be a single pod pollinating a whole plant in a hermie situation. Usually it's just all over the plant when it's stress/genetics related. Twice I've seen plants hermie and the pollen sacs were right below the flowers and super easy to pluck off. They are usually pretty easy to spot before they will burst and let out pollen. It's mainly that you want to get them away from other female plants before they explode on them and cause them to pollinate that is the issue.

I've had one plant that hermied without seeing any male pods or anything. Then all of a sudden the seed sacs were all over the place. There was no chance I could even attempt to pluck them off. It happened maybe 3 weeks into flower and I really thought the reason was heat. That one may have been pure genetics though. I got 7 seeds in one batch and they were supposed to be feminized so hopefully the others don't hermie as well or I'll know for sure it was genetics. Sometimes it's just really hard to tell what the cause really was.
 
Update - Day 105 - Day 40 of 12/12 - Day 33 of flowering

Things are improving. Whatever hiccup happened over the past couple of weeks seems to be passing. There were a bunch of prematurely brown pistils before and now those are being overtaken by new white pistils growing over them. So, I'm hopeful in the direction the crop is moving.

Bubblegun #1 continues to show some weird look in the buds. Shiny leaves with not many trichomes. Leaves are curling down and folding in on themselves. The plant seems to be less fragrant than Bubblegun #2 also.

I emailed Spliff seeds to ask what they thought of the hermy situation. They've convinced me to wait until at least end of week 6 before doing anything with the plants. At the rate that they're recovering, they might be looking much better by then, so I'm really hopeful.

Here's some pics:

Bud_6_14_18_1.JPG

Bud_6_14_18_1.JPG

Bubblegun Buds June 14, 2018

Bud_6_14_18_19.JPG

Bud_6_14_18_19.JPG

Bubblegun Buds June 14, 2018

Bud_6_14_18_18.JPG

Bud_6_14_18_18.JPG

Bubblegun Buds June 14, 2018

Bud_6_14_18_17.JPG

Bud_6_14_18_17.JPG

Bubblegun Buds June 14, 2018

Bud_6_14_18_16.JPG

Bud_6_14_18_16.JPG

Bubblegun Buds June 14, 2018

Bud_6_14_18_15.JPG

Bud_6_14_18_15.JPG

Bubblegun Buds June 14, 2018

Bud_6_14_18_14.JPG

Bud_6_14_18_14.JPG

Bubblegun Buds June 14, 2018

Bud_6_14_18_13.JPG

Bud_6_14_18_13.JPG

Bubblegun Buds June 14, 2018

Bud_6_14_18_12.JPG

Bud_6_14_18_12.JPG

Bubblegun Buds June 14, 2018

Bud_6_14_18_11.JPG

Bud_6_14_18_11.JPG

Bubblegun Buds June 14, 2018

Bud_6_14_18_10.JPG

Bud_6_14_18_10.JPG

Bubblegun Buds June 14, 2018

Bud_6_14_18_9.JPG

Bud_6_14_18_9.JPG

Bubblegun Buds June 14, 2018

Bud_6_14_18_8.JPG

Bud_6_14_18_8.JPG

Bubblegun Buds June 14, 2018

Bud_6_14_18_7.JPG

Bud_6_14_18_7.JPG

Bubblegun Buds June 14, 2018

Bud_6_14_18_6.JPG

Bud_6_14_18_6.JPG

Bubblegun Buds June 14, 2018

Bud_6_14_18_5.JPG

Bud_6_14_18_5.JPG

Bubblegun Buds June 14, 2018

Bud_6_14_18_4.JPG

Bud_6_14_18_4.JPG

Bubblegun Buds June 14, 2018

Bud_6_14_18_3.JPG

Bud_6_14_18_3.JPG

Bubblegun Buds June 14, 2018

Bud_6_14_18_2.JPG

Bud_6_14_18_2.JPG

Bubblegun Buds June 14, 2018

And finally one of my grow buddy:
Bud_6_14_18_20.JPG

Bud_6_14_18_20.JPG

Grow buddy - June 14, 2018
 
Somehow I missed the response and pictures to Bonsai but I would have let you know earlier that I don't think your plants have hermied. In the first pictures those are not balls. Those are in fact a version of ladyparts and that is why there were hairs growing out of them. Balls grow in bunches as well so you'd see it pretty obviously. In your most recent update the plants look fine to me.
 

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