Raiven's 1st Indoor Grow - THC Bomb Auto - 2014

[Lester Freeman]

-All looking very healthy overall

Correct. Sounds like you guys are sitting here trying to solve a nuclear physics problem. Relax.

If it makes you feel better, pluck off those necrotic leaves soon, and on your next watering flush the plant in question with distilled water and just let them grow.

You will never grow a plant who is 100% perfect all of the time, your new growth isn't effected, so I would not be worried.

As I have said before, the plant needs to feel out the environment and calculate what to do, the soil just may have been a little hot for it when it was that young, cannabis is known for adapting and surviving, in other words, they grow out of it.

Plants look fine over all! Just like you said.

 

[KingJohnC]

Subscribed. Thank you for the invitation!

Your small plant appears to have a phosphorous deficiency and possibly a calcium deficiency. Your medium size plant appears to have either a developing phosphorous deficiency or a calcium deficiency. I believe your larger plant is better able to deal with the adverse conditions.

I believe your plants deficiency's are most likely from 2 things
1) FoxFarm Ocean Forest soil is considered to be high in nutrients and are often too high in nutrients for seedlings and small plants.
2) The addition of FoxFarm Nutrients to an already high nutrient soil has resulted in a nutrient buildup in the soil and has also caused the soil pH to drop out of a favourable pH range. The FoxFarm Nutrient Schedule also calls for regular flushing, have you been flushing your plants pots?

I believe you have a nutrient buildup in your soil that has also resulted in your soils pH dropping out of favourable pH range and you should flush your soil with at least twice the amount of pH adjusted water as pot size or until the runoff is pH 6.5.

I notice the amounts you list for your nutrient mixture, are those per gallon or per quart?

The FoxFarm nutrient soil recommended dosage is for soils that are not already high in nutrients. I would use 1/2 the recommended dosage and see how your plants react.

Here is the FoxFarm Nutrient Feed Schedule for Soil

You want pH 5.8 for hydroponic and soiless (peat moss and coco coir) and pH 6.5 for soil.

Here is a nutrient availability chart

Here is a cannabis leaf deficiency chart

here is the Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver and the Plant Abuse Chart

Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver: Pictorial

Plant Abuse Chart


For vegetative growth I would use a 18/6 18 hours of light and 6 hours of darkness lighting schedule. I read a study where lighting schedule versus root length was tested and plants grown under a 16/8 lighting schedule grew the longest roots, 18/6 was not tested. I was made aware of a study where lighting schedule versus growth was tested and plants given at least 5.5 hours of darkness grew the most.

A soil or soiless mixture lower in nutrients is more appropriate for use with the FoxFarm Nutrient Feed Schedule.

Here is my soiless mixture

I use peat moss, perlite, vermiculite and mycorrhizae for my plants. I would mix your soiless mixture in a ratio of 60% peat moss, 20% perlite and 20% vermiculite. If you can get Pro-Mix HP you would only need to add 20% vermiculite and mycorrhizae. Vermiculite acts as a catalyst between nutrients and the plants roots as well as retaining moisture.

PRO-MIX HP Mycorrhizae - High porosity peat-based growing medium


https://www.hydro-organics.com earth juice rooters mycorrhizae


You want 70°-90° Fahrenheit and 50%-70% humidity for vegetative growth and 30%-50% humidity for flowering. What size exhaust and fans are you using in your attic space? You may have to reduce the amount of Compact Florescent Lights you are using or increase the airflow to reduce the temperature in your grow area. If your humidity is too low consider using a cool mist humidifier either in your grow area or in the area where you air intake is.

Day 32
Veg. Day 21
07-13-14 7:30 pm

-Plant are really getting some height now
-All looking very healthy overall
-Large Plant looks amazing
---A few spots here and there showing up randomly on different leaves
---Cut top is healing nicely and the two tops coming out of it are growing very well
-Medium Plant is getting very full and looking very healthy
---Some "decay" similar to the Small Plant is stating to show on some of the fan leaves
-Small Plant looks good except for the affected leaves
---The lowest fan leaves are riddled with "decay" and one is really starting to curl upwards
-No water
-No nutes
-Temp.: 73 deg - 95 deg
---MAIN TEMP reading on meter at time of check was 77 deg
-Hum.: 25% - 66%
---MAIN HUM reading on meter at time of check was 35%
-24 hr light
-1/4 turn each plant
-Fanned directly most of the day

-------------
SMALL PLANT
-------------

---------------
MEDIUM PLANT
---------------

-------------
LARGE PLANT
-------------

--------------
GROUP SHOTS
--------------

 

[Raiven]

Correct. Sounds like you guys are sitting here trying to solve a nuclear physics problem. Relax.

If it makes you feel better, pluck off those necrotic leaves soon, and on your next watering flush the plant in question with distilled water and just let them grow.

You will never grow a plant who is 100% perfect all of the time, your new growth isn't effected, so I would not be worried.

As I have said before, the plant needs to feel out the environment and calculate what to do, the soil just may have been a little hot for it when it was that young, cannabis is known for adapting and surviving, in other words, they grow out of it.

Plants look fine over all! Just like you said.

Hey Lester!
Thank you for the calming post LoL
I wouldnt say Im worried anymore since starting this thread and the other and hearing all your suggestions and advice...
I just want to continue putting the info out there and see what comes back...

Today was supposed to be on the feeding schedule but I am going to WATER only...
Do you think a full FLUSH is in order?
If I were going to WATER only I would use one gallon for each plant...
They are in 3 gallon pots
So if I am to flush how many gallons do you think would be appropriate?

 

[Raiven]

Subscribed. Thank you for the invitation!

Hey KJC!!! Thank you so much for stopping by!!

Your small plant appears to have a phosphorous deficiency and possibly a calcium deficiency. Your medium size plant appears to have either a developing phosphorous deficiency or a calcium deficiency. I believe your larger plant is better able to deal with the adverse conditions.

I believe your plants deficiency's are most likely from 2 things
1) FoxFarm Ocean Forest soil is considered to be high in nutrients and are often too high in nutrients for seedlings and small plants.
2) The addition of FoxFarm Nutrients to an already high nutrient soil has resulted in a nutrient buildup in the soil and has also caused the soil pH to drop out of a favourable pH range. The FoxFarm Nutrient Schedule also calls for regular flushing, have you been flushing your plants pots?

I have not flushed at all yet...Some suggested I wait...And according to the FF feeding chart I am supposed to flush after 4 weeks...I was scheduled to perform a full flush a week from today on 07-21-14 but I will be moving that up to today

I believe you have a nutrient buildup in your soil that has also resulted in your soils pH dropping out of favourable pH range and you should flush your soil with at least twice the amount of pH adjusted water as pot size or until the runoff is pH 6.5.

I notice the amounts you list for your nutrient mixture, are those per gallon or per quart?

It should say it in my notes but if I left it out I apologize...All teaspoons of nutrients are per gallon

The FoxFarm nutrient soil recommended dosage is for soils that are not already high in nutrients. I would use 1/2 the recommended dosage and see how your plants react.

I have been using half strength on each of the nutrients according to the Fox Farm soil feeding chart that I obtained from their website...The chart I have been using is different than the one you provided...see my image below:

Here is the FoxFarm Nutrient Feed Schedule for Soil


You want pH 5.8 for hydroponic and soiless (peat moss and coco coir) and pH 6.5 for soil.

Here is a nutrient availability chart

Here is a cannabis leaf deficiency chart

here is the Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver and the Plant Abuse Chart

Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver: Pictorial

Plant Abuse Chart


For vegetative growth I would use a 18/6 18 hours of light and 6 hours of darkness lighting schedule. I read a study where lighting schedule versus root length was tested and plants grown under a 16/8 lighting schedule grew the longest roots, 18/6 was not tested. I was made aware of a study where lighting schedule versus growth was tested and plants given at least 5.5 hours of darkness grew the most.

A soil or soiless mixture lower in nutrients is more appropriate for use with the FoxFarm Nutrient Feed Schedule.

Here is my soiless mixture

I use peat moss, perlite, vermiculite and mycorrhizae for my plants. I would mix your soiless mixture in a ratio of 60% peat moss, 20% perlite and 20% vermiculite. If you can get Pro-Mix HP you would only need to add 20% vermiculite and mycorrhizae. Vermiculite acts as a catalyst between nutrients and the plants roots as well as retaining moisture.

PRO-MIX HP Mycorrhizae - High porosity peat-based growing medium

https://www.hydro-organics.com earth juice rooters mycorrhizae


You want 70°-90° Fahrenheit and 50%-70% humidity for vegetative growth and 30%-50% humidity for flowering. What size exhaust and fans are you using in your attic space? You may have to reduce the amount of Compact Florescent Lights you are using or increase the airflow to reduce the temperature in your grow area. If your humidity is too low consider using a cool mist humidifier either in your grow area or in the area where you air intake is.

I realize my temperature and humidity have been all over the place...Partly due to the uncontrolled environment they are in...The ATTIC grow room was a fail right from the beginning...I probably should have kept that information and all those pictures in a separate thread...If you read carefully in my first post in this thread it tells how the attic room failed because of heat...I now have to build a new enclosure in a spot I have picked out in the back of my shed...The two exhaust fans are 4" 240 cfm marine props LoL... I have a set of 6 bulbs for veg and flower ... havent gotten anything into flowering yet...

THANK YOU AGAIN SO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR HELP!!
I WILL CONSULT ALL THE CHARTS AND DO A FLUSH TONIGHT AND POST ALL THE RESULTS!!

 

[Lester Freeman]

Hey Lester!
Thank you for the calming post LoL
I wouldnt say Im worried anymore since starting this thread and the other and hearing all your suggestions and advice...
I just want to continue putting the info out there and see what comes back...

Today was supposed to be on the feeding schedule but I am going to WATER only...
Do you think a full FLUSH is in order?
If I were going to WATER only I would use one gallon for each plant...
They are in 3 gallon pots
So if I am to flush how many gallons do you think would be appropriate?

On the next scheduled watering event, I would water with extra water to the point of extra run off. I would water with 6 gallons total per 3 gallon pot to achieve good run off. This is a good idea to do often as a maintenance plan. One cannot keep dumping fertilizer into the soil without occasionally flushing, and freeing up/ opening up the ion competition. Fox Farm Nutrients are pretty "hot" as well, so like KJC they need to be flushed every now and then.

I would listen to exactly what KJC said.



It is important to give your plants extra run off on occasion. This frees up some of the ion competition for uptake and transport.

 

[Cannabomb]

I have/had the same problem in the last few weeks, everything your plant is doing mine did. The reason was PH, cause lock out and showed signs on Phos def Mag def Cal def all at once, was horrible!!

Took KingJohnC's advice and some others from 420 and my plant has still produced nice nugs with 14 days of flower to go. I am growing Autos so they heal alot slower and I was in flower they heal even slower, you are in veg with photos, so you should be fine, absolutley try and find and fix the problem but your plant will still produce nice buds with this damage!

Thats my 2 cents not a pro at all, just read alot and had alot of help so thought I would try and pay it forward

Oh and yes, the answer was to flush the soil and regulate the PH to 6.5 no more problems on new growth, old growth will stay like that though

 

[Raiven]

On the next scheduled watering event, I would water with extra water to the point of extra run off. I would water with 6 gallons total per 3 gallon pot to achieve good run off. This is a good idea to do often as a maintenance plan. One cannot keep dumping fertilizer into the soil without occasionally flushing, and freeing up/ opening up the ion competition. Fox Farm Nutrients are pretty "hot" as well, so like KJC they need to be flushed every now and then.

I would listen to exactly what KJC said.



It is important to give your plants extra run off on occasion. This frees up some of the ion competition for uptake and transport.

Love it, love all the comments and advice people!! keep it comin!!

I didnt know (from lack of experience) that FLUSHES could be or would be done this early...
I hadnt read much on them only as much as before switching into flowering and before harvesting...

Also on the FF chart I have it say to do it AFTER WEEK FOUR then AFTER WEEK SEVEN then AFTER WEEK TEN...
I attached the chart below to better illustrate where my "knowledge" came from...

Its a huge thunderstorm out side right now...But Im hoping it dissipates by the time I get home so I can go out and give all three plants a nice SIX GALLON FLUSH

 

[Raiven]

I have/had the same problem in the last few weeks, everything your plant is doing mine did. The reason was PH, cause lock out and showed signs on Phos def Mag def Cal def all at once, was horrible!!

Took KingJohnC's advice and some others from 420 and my plant has still produced nice nugs with 14 days of flower to go. I am growing Autos so they heal alot slower and I was in flower they heal even slower, you are in veg with photos, so you should be fine, absolutley try and find and fix the problem but your plant will still produce nice buds with this damage!

Thats my 2 cents not a pro at all, just read alot and had alot of help so thought I would try and pay it forward

Oh and yes, the answer was to flush the soil and regulate the PH to 6.5 no more problems on new growth, old growth will stay like that though

CannaBomb!! Thank you for commenting and to my journal!!

It was great of you to stop by with your 2cents LoL...
It made me feel so much better knowing that someone else had the SAME issue as me to a T and was able to make it thru mostly unscathed!

Definitely taking KJCs and everyone elses advice and taking a proactive position on the problems...
Flushing tonight...As much water as it takes to get the DAMN OCEAN FOREST , to 6.5 pH...

I will be posting some stuff tonight hopefully...stay tuned please!!

 

[Raiven]

Day 34
Veg. Day 23
07-15-14 7:30 pm

-Plants were moved out to the shed but there is no box built yet
---They are freestanding on the table same as before just out there
-All looking very healthy overall
-Large Plant looks amazing
---A few spots here and there showing up randomly on different leaves
---Cut top is healing nicely and the two tops coming out of it are growing very well
-Medium Plant is getting very full and looking very healthy
---Some "decay" similar to the Small Plant is still showing on some of the fan leaves almost every single one
---I will be removing these soon if there is no positive change
-Small Plant looks good except for the affected leaves
---The lowest fan leaves are riddled with "decay" and one is really starting to curl upwards
---Taking these leafs off tonight
-FIRST FLUSH TONIGHT
---Attempting to flush the soil NEUTRAL
---Flushed each plant with 6 gallons of STRAIGHT WATER pHd @ 6.5 - 7.0
---Each runoff after 6 gallons still read ACIDIC 4.0-5.0
---Decided to keep going with flushing and just used the hose after a while cause it was taking too much time and effort to keep filling up jugs
---Needless to say I lost count of how many gallons I used per plant
---After half hour of flushing and testing the best reading I got from any of the plants was between 5.0-maybe 6.0
-No nutes
-Temp.: 73 deg - 95 deg
---MAIN TEMP reading on meter at time of check was 80 deg
-Hum.: 65% - 86%
---MAIN HUM reading on meter at time of check was 78%
-24 hr light
-1/4 turn each plant
-Fanned directly all of the day

-------------
SMALL PLANT
-------------

---------------
MEDIUM PLANT
---------------

-------------
LARGE PLANT
-------------

--------------
GROUP SHOTS
--------------

 

[SoilGirl]

looking good in here Raiven
Its great to see you getting so much support here. I wish I had 420 Mag my first grow!
So these are all autoflowers correct? I've heard that autos can do better sometimes if they aren't topped or fimmed. Maybe our friend Lester can add to that..

 

[Antics]

Subbed. I'm looking forward to seeing how your topping turns out for you when it comes harvest time

 

[Lester Freeman]

I'd be transplanting that small plant into fresh soil asap. That's just me though.

Depending on the strain of autoflower, topping/fimming can definitely be too traumatic and can really set a plant back.

The way I see it, smaller plants need much less nutrients, larger plants need much more nutrients. The FFoF comes packed with lots of nutes to last 30 days even for a heavy feeding plant, so it actually sounds like a rare case of over-fertilization. It's usually hard to be 100% accurate/sure of a nutrient problem because symptoms of one element may be the cause of another and vice versa. That's why I like PeeJay's thought process and mentality. Start with a nice soil and never worry about a thing. Just water, watch, and grow. No jiving around with nutrients or pH.



Over all things look well.

 

[Raiven]

looking good in here Raiven
Its great to see you getting so much support here. I wish I had 420 Mag my first grow!
So these are all autoflowers correct? I've heard that autos can do better sometimes if they aren't topped or fimmed. Maybe our friend Lester can add to that..

Hey SG thank you!!
The support has been amazing and it all started with you!!

These three girls are all the same autos THC Bomb Auto

You are probably right about the topping and such...
I wish I did more in depth research on autos before starting...
But grow and learn right

Look forward to the replies!!

 

[Raiven]

I'd be transplanting that small plant into fresh soil asap. That's just me though.

Depending on the strain of autoflower, topping/fimming can definitely be too traumatic and can really set a plant back.

The way I see it, smaller plants need much less nutrients, larger plants need much more nutrients. The FFoF comes packed with lots of nutes to last 30 days even for a heavy feeding plant, so it actually sounds like a rare case of over-fertilization. It's usually hard to be 100% accurate/sure of a nutrient problem because symptoms of one element may be the cause of another and vice versa. That's why I like PeeJay's thought process and mentality. Start with a nice soil and never worry about a thing. Just water, watch, and grow. No jiving around with nutrients or pH.



Over all things look well.

Lester!! Thank you for giving your input once again!!

Would you say that next grow (which will be started very soon) I could still use the FFOF but just no nutes for the first 30 days or so? Or is there a specific soil that works well with cannabis that conforms to PeeJays process??

Let me know!

 

[Raiven]

I'd be transplanting that small plant into fresh soil asap. That's just me though.

As for transplanting the small plant...
How does one do that without knowing exactly where the roots are?
Is the goal to knock off all the soil and plant the roots into new soil?

 

[SoilGirl]

KJC recommended a great soil to you, but for my part I've heard good things about Happy Frog (Never used and don't know much about it though), and I personally use Sunshine Mix #4 organic, though I usually get the Sunshine Mix #4 Organic + Mycorrhizae (however you spell that Lol). In my experience SS#4O is really easy to work with. Things grow in it like weeds, no pun intended hahah.

About the transplanting thing, IDK. I usually transplant the whole container's worth of soil once the roots have "balled" it up. This way pretty much eliminates the whole shock period plants go through during transplant. In fact, in my recent transplants, there was no shock at all for my little BBK and Euphoria.
When you dig the plant you want to transplant out of its soil/soiless mix, you're almost guaranteed to do some root damage that will definitely send it into shock, same as if you uproot it. If you're experienced you can minimize the shock though by being extra gentle and digging up a good big chunk of soil. If you do choose to transplant it, I'd get a new soil first because there's no point transplanting it into the same soil its in, and just be extra careful and gentle.

A safe bet is your roots are focused directly under the stem a good 4 inches or so down. If you do choose to transplant I'd dig up as deep as you can underneath the stem, and the shaking thing you asked sometimes works with strongly developed roots, but sometimes if you try to shake off the soil it just takes half your roots with it >.< I know from experience.

 

[Lester Freeman]

Lester!! Thank you for giving your input once again!!

Would you say that next grow (which will be started very soon) I could still use the FFOF but just no nutes for the first 30 days or so? Or is there a specific soil that works well with cannabis that conforms to PeeJays process??

Let me know!

About the FFoF, I would say so, yes.

PeeJay mixes it up himself, I forgot what's in it exactly, you'd have to ask him more about it in his thread if your interested PeeJay's Prudent Home-Brewed Organic Soil - Outdoor Out of Sight Deck Grow.

As for transplanting the small plant...
How does one do that without knowing exactly where the roots are?
Is the goal to knock off all the soil and plant the roots into new soil?

SG touched up on it, but I never actually "dig anything up". The best thing to do is have it grow to its alottment and when its rootballed up it comes out nice and clean. The way I do it is I flip the entire pot and plant upside down and hold it in the palm of my hand with the main stem in between my index and middle finger, I then use my other hand to catch the root mass and plant as it slides out. In the case of an emergency transplant, I would do that, and then just gently jiggle/tap the excess soil off and with the newly exposed roots going into a newer/fresh soil.

KJC recommended a great soil to you, but for my part I've heard good things about Happy Frog (Never used and don't know much about it though), and I personally use Sunshine Mix #4 organic, though I usually get the Sunshine Mix #4 Organic + Mycorrhizae (however you spell that Lol). In my experience SS#4O is really easy to work with. Things grow in it like weeds, no pun intended hahah.

About the transplanting thing, IDK. I usually transplant the whole container's worth of soil once the roots have "balled" it up. This way pretty much eliminates the whole shock period plants go through during transplant. In fact, in my recent transplants, there was no shock at all for my little BBK and Euphoria.
When you dig the plant you want to transplant out of its soil/soiless mix, you're almost guaranteed to do some root damage that will definitely send it into shock, same as if you uproot it. If you're experienced you can minimize the shock though by being extra gentle and digging up a good big chunk of soil. If you do choose to transplant it, I'd get a new soil first because there's no point transplanting it into the same soil its in, and just be extra careful and gentle.

Yup, I agree with her!

 

[Raiven]

KJC recommended a great soil to you, but for my part I've heard good things about Happy Frog (Never used and don't know much about it though), and I personally use Sunshine Mix #4 organic, though I usually get the Sunshine Mix #4 Organic + Mycorrhizae (however you spell that Lol). In my experience SS#4O is really easy to work with. Things grow in it like weeds, no pun intended hahah.

They all sound good to a noob like me...When using an organic soil do you still use nutes the same and would you only be able to use organic nutes?

About the transplanting thing, IDK. I usually transplant the whole container's worth of soil once the roots have "balled" it up. This way pretty much eliminates the whole shock period plants go through during transplant. In fact, in my recent transplants, there was no shock at all for my little BBK and Euphoria.
When you dig the plant you want to transplant out of its soil/soiless mix, you're almost guaranteed to do some root damage that will definitely send it into shock, same as if you uproot it. If you're experienced you can minimize the shock though by being extra gentle and digging up a good big chunk of soil. If you do choose to transplant it, I'd get a new soil first because there's no point transplanting it into the same soil its in, and just be extra careful and gentle.

A safe bet is your roots are focused directly under the stem a good 4 inches or so down. If you do choose to transplant I'd dig up as deep as you can underneath the stem, and the shaking thing you asked sometimes works with strongly developed roots, but sometimes if you try to shake off the soil it just takes half your roots with it >.< I know from experience.

Transplanting makes me nervous...If i lose some or most of the roots doing this will the plant still be viable?

 

[Raiven]

About the FFoF, I would say so, yes.

PeeJay mixes it up himself, I forgot what's in it exactly, you'd have to ask him more about it in his thread if your interested PeeJay's Prudent Home-Brewed Organic Soil - Outdoor Out of Sight Deck Grow.


I will be sure to check it out!!

SG touched up on it, but I never actually "dig anything up". The best thing to do is have it grow to its alottment and when its rootballed up it comes out nice and clean. The way I do it is I flip the entire pot and plant upside down and hold it in the palm of my hand with the main stem in between my index and middle finger, I then use my other hand to catch the root mass and plant as it slides out. In the case of an emergency transplant, I would do that, and then just gently jiggle/tap the excess soil off and with the newly exposed roots going into a newer/fresh soil.

I see what youre saying...I could have been more specific...I was trying to touch more upon the situation with my soil being the culprit with the small plant issues that I would want to extract the plant from the soil entirely and put it into new fresh soil...But thinking to myself how would that be possible with the way root systems grow...

But if i dig out a small radius as deep as I can around the plant leaving as much of the soil behind then that may work, yes?

Yup, I agree with her!

 

[KingJohnC]

I would transplant your plants to larger size pots now and use fresh soil. I have used Sunshine Mix #4 and have had very good results with the peat moss soiless mixture I use with perlite, vermiculite and additional mycorrhizae. I now use Pro-Mix HP in my peat moss soiless mixture with vermiculite and additional mycorrhizae with excellent results. The Pro-Mix HP is just a more deluxe version of peat moss.

PRO-MIX® HP MYCORRHIZAE?