RVgrowers 1st Stealth Grow of Afghan Kush Ryder and Kannabia Special

[RVgrower]

Hello there paw-paw! And help again HempRocket! Thanks for your responses guys!!! And yeah, HR, I thought about what you'd said yesterday, and I am just going to leave them alone, and my little fix-up job of putting more dry seedling soil underneath the wet seedling cells and a dusting on top of each one as well to dry out the soil a bit has actually helped already. I see the new soil I put on has darkened meaning it's soaked up the moisture from the wet soil below. I pushed a little soil away from the edge of one cell wall (to stay away from the seed), to see what the soil looked like below, and it looked much lighter, and felt drier, so I think that helped the situation.
Now, I'll just keep them under the lights on the increased light schedule (20/4) till they harvest, because the seed supplier says the stats are to run them on that schedule, "20/4 from seed to harvest", so shouldn't I do that as they suggest, since they developed the seed strain, wouldn't they know what's best for optimum production? I mean no disrespect! I'm just saying, I heard from so many of your most respected members/ moderators, that when people say they're going to go on a 24/0 set, the guys tell them NO, "the plants need that dark time to recover, so, that's why I thought that was best, it made sense to me. What do you guys think? Haven't you heard that said as well, about the need for dark time and that?
So over the last 2 days have increased the times to 15/9, & then last night was 19/5, so today it's going to be 20/4 at least, and maybe in a few days, the seeds will be sprouted, since they are covered with dried but still slightly moist soil, and warm being in this tub/shower unit with a sky light that brings in natural sunlight and helps a lot with holding humidity as well.

Thanks again for following my grow guys, and helping me with these gettin-started hurdles...you guys rock, thanks for all you have done I can't thank you enough. I am a fine gardened, worked as a landscaper for a few years, have ALWAYS grown things, even stuff like Orchids...which are really sensitive, as you know. So I KNOW how to grow things pretty well, save sick ones and all....just haven't attempted an ndoor, start from seed, running lights, medical marijuana grow before....Yeah they're a weed, and are sturdy as all hell when they grow up, but when they are just cracking, just "being born" as I put it, they ARE delicate, and they won't do well in crap soil, or in a bad ph situation, etc...that's why I am not too proud to ask for help. I only have a few seeds, but those 2 bag seeds just cracked, just split on the seam on one, no tap root yet and the other has a like 1/64th tap root or something like that, like you can just see the little thing...so it looks like I might have 4 plants in the long run after all! YEA!!! I will be needing everyone's help in identifying those two when they are a foot tall or so and have some good size fan leave, color, shape, etc...that will be fun!

Okay guys, thanks again, that's all for now, OH! One more question!! I have 7720 total Lumens, 5200K, in 2 55Watt, (110 total watts, of course! ) CFL's, in this 2'x4' tub/shower that is my grow room, so do you guys or anyone else out there know the math that will tell me if this is going to be adequate to complete my grow on?
If I can find ANY kind of LED panel, used I'm sure it would have to be, like on Craigslist or Ebay or whatever, I WILL buy it if I can come up with any money...Just buying this stuff to get me started , even after all I had stored up for free or hardly nothing, has me flat broke for till I get my check on the 3rd...This is why I HAVE to grow my own medicine, and that's why I'm so thankful for you guys with so much experience helping me.

No pics until the seeds break ground and then they are going into Hempy cups....I read that whole thread, and LOVED it and the results he got! Can ANYONE tell me what how to finnd the ORIGINAL Hempy cup thread/ grow journal? I read it a month or so ago, and now I can't remember the name or anything, and have tried looking all over to no avail.....can anyone help me with that question as well? I want to make sure I do it right.

Thanks EVERYONE!!!!

 

[HempRocket]

I don't know if this is the original but it's one of the better one's out there:

DocBud's Hempy Grow

 

[RVgrower]

Thanks a lot HempRocket..yeah, I checked it out, and it's not the same one I read back before...It was a journal where the guy actually had step by step pics of the solo cups being prepped, the soil and perlite mix put together, etc....but I think I remember enough to do it on my own....It was where he said to put 1 hole w/ a nail ( I think I need to heat it with a torch to make it punch straight thru without cracking or breaking the cup..., he didn't do that, and I don't remember HOW he did that hole with a nail on one of those plastic Solo cups that we are talking about, so I guess I'll do that my way with a hot nail!)
Anyhow, I understand that the bottom inch below the nail is the "reservoir", and in THIS particular example, he used FFOC soil and put the bottom half of the cup with the perlite alone, then the top half was a 50/50 mix of the FFOF & the perlite, and then, after he put his seeds just into the top soil & perlite mix, either he watered and THEN put a 1/4" topping of straight FFOF, or he put the 1/4" topping of straight FFOF on top and THEN planted the seed and watered.....BUT THIS IS THE FUZZY PART FOR ME, THAT'S WHY I WAS HOPING TO FIND THAT GROW JOURNAL, DARN IT! I was just lurking that day, trying to learn what I could going all over the site as I have been doing for most of every day for over 6 months now...
Does that sound right to you?
And I am going to put my seedlings in these solo "Hempy" cups, as soon as they break ground and have a few nodes on them, and let them grow big fat white healthy roots to fill those solo cups I'm hopin'!

I know this might sound retarded, but clarify for me, exactly WHEN does the vegetative stage start? When the seed goes into the ground? Or when the seed germinates? Or when the seed has those first couple of nodes on her and starts to grow and survive as a plant at that point? Just asking your opinion, so I can keep track of my vegetative cycle days on my first grow, I'm keep ing this all in a private journal for myself as well, so I can have my own and best reference material for the future...

And does ANYONE have the answer to my question about the light requirements for my plant vs. the stats on my current bulbs & whether or not they will be adequate grow lights for the duration of the grow, or am I on the short end with what I have and need more? The stats for my current lights are in the bottom 3 little paragraphs on the post of mine that is right before this one, #21 to be exact.

Thanks to you HempRocket for all the time and help you've so generously given me, and also to tacoscheap and paw-paw.....I appreciate all of you and anyone else who has stopped by and read my journal....

Thanks to everyone who has stopped by and especially those who have offered assistance!

 

[HempRocket]

I count Day 1 Veg when they have 3-4 nodes.

The best thing I can recommend is to use as much light as you can! I never subscribed to the whole lumens per sq. ft. calculations. The lumen (symbol: lm) is the SI unit of luminous flux, a measure of the power of light perceived by the human eye...key word here being "human eye".

 

[paw-paw]

amen! just put as much light as possible. the lights u're using have a kelvin of 2700 & that will work for the entire grow. autoflowers are strange plants. they mature on age, not light cycle, so pour as much light as possible. my understanding is that they start flowering almost immediatly after sprouting (some of them) & some don't flower for a couple of weeks. it shouldn't matter when because they're gonna' flower on age. as they get older u "might" want to add another light or 2 (like u have now)but with that skylite u have it might not be needed. just watch u're plants. another thing, that low rh is gonna be a blessing towards the end of u're grow. less chance of bud rot. if somebody disagrees w/me please jump in. i, personally have only grown a few of these autoflowers.

 

[PBRMJ]

I would like to follow along with your journal, I like the use of the space.

If your talking mini Hempy cups with soil there are a few people I know that do this. I think they do thirds of the cup like you were talkingabout, bottom all perlite middle 50/50 perlite soiil top third all soil. I think BlueDog did that very knowledgeable about Hempy. Hot nail or drill bit works good probably 7/16" maybe a little smaller in a mini Hempy.

From what I've read you would be better off with your lights horizontal if you want to add more lights you can get the Y adapters and have two light per clamp light.

Hope this helps some.

 

[RVgrower]

I count Day 1 Veg when they have 3-4 nodes.

The best thing I can recommend is to use as much light as you can! I never subscribed to the whole lumens per sq. ft. calculations. The lumen (symbol: lm) is the SI unit of luminous flux, a measure of the power of light perceived by the human eye...key word here being "human eye".

Hey thanks again HR, I really appreciate your information......yeah, I am glad I can just rely on my "old-school ways", and not worry about those Lumen numbers, but I know when I tried my first closet grow in 1982 when I was in my 1st apt., a regular light bulb just don't work, all I got was a 1 ft tall weed as thin as a pice of spaghetti almost, with only like 3 or 4 nodes in a ft, it was soooo light green & all stretched out, so I had to pull it eventually...

Yeah, I am going to get 2 more of these lights and the Y connectors to double them up. But since I have the skylight above, do you think I could remove the reflector dishes and just hang the doubled up lights on either side or slightly above on either side to allow the natural sunlight penetrate thru more without the reflector dishes blocking the pure sunlight.
(I admit that I only am getting DIRECT sunlight overhead mid summer around noon....other than that it's really really bright in there, but it's all indirect sunlight...

Either way about the reflectors, I'm getting the y connectors and 2 more lights next week after I have the money to do so... (Walmart didn't have the Y connectors to double the lights, gotta go to the hardware store...)

Thanks again for your mentoring HempRocket, I really appreciate you helping me like this bro!

 

[RVgrower]

amen! just put as much light as possible. the lights u're using have a kelvin of 2700 & that will work for the entire grow. autoflowers are strange plants. they mature on age, not light cycle, so pour as much light as possible. my understanding is that they start flowering almost immediatly after sprouting (some of them) & some don't flower for a couple of weeks. it shouldn't matter when because they're gonna' flower on age. as they get older u "might" want to add another light or 2 (like u have now)but with that skylite u have it might not be needed. just watch u're plants. another thing, that low rh is gonna be a blessing towards the end of u're grow. less chance of bud rot. if somebody disagrees w/me please jump in. i, personally have only grown a few of these autoflowers.

Thanks again for your input paw-paw! Yeah, I KNOW for sure the AKR is an autoflower, the stats from the supplier said she'd go into flower in about 4 weeks from seed, harvest 7-9 weeks, so we will see...
And like I told HempRocket above (or below! I can't remember how it turns out, lol! Just had a medicine break, sorry...at least I'm happy and my pain's in the background right now, thank goodness, but anyways, sorry!)

Yeah, I got the plan already, actually I was looking for them at Walmart last week when i was shopping for supplies that day..

As for my rh, it's always about 35% during the day, of course, as the temps go down when I've had the lights off in dark cycle, the rh goes up to 40-45%, but I have left my lights on for almost 36 hrs straight right no, because I went and re-wrapped my 4 cell pack that my mmj seeds are in with the plastic wrap I had them wrapped in when I first germinated them...I think I just pulled them out of germination too soon, getting to excited to see the vegetable seedlings standing up on the 3rd day, and then I saw my mmj seeds were cracked, and had abbey tap roots, I thought they would just start growing green straight off, so I put them under the lights...and the vegetables DID grow big, HUGE even strait away, but not my mmj seeds, so I don't want to mess with them too much, but since I thought I pulled them early, and had read another guy's journal, I think stevehman, who had done the same thing, pulled seeds from germination too soon, so he took them, and put his back in the baggie and wet paper towel in his kitchen cabinet and the next day or whatever , he had a proper sprouted seed that was turning green on top I guess...so I went with that concept adapted to my situation...
Anyhow, I have vowed not to touch them again till I see green sprouts under that plastic wrap....even our green onions that I have never ever sprouted before popped up right next to my mmj seeds, but the are taking their sweet time...
And as for the fan situation, yeah, that fan can damn near pull you off the john I joke! lol! It's got 3 speeds, really fast, really really fast, and hold-on-to-the-john speed! lol lol lol! I'm not kidding! I have NEVER in all my years seen a fan with speeds THAT fast for ANY bathroom! Let alone a bathroom that's only 96 cu.ft.!!! You are so right about this being a total asset come flowering period, when it's getting hot here and we are running fans and the A/C and such as the summer goes on, so we shouldn't have an odor issue with all the positive air-flow, and like you said, as did the specs on the seeds, that they need it drier, "the drier the better" according to the seed supplier, during flowering, so yeah, I think I picked exactly the right plants for my situation and my medical needs as well!
And THANKS again, bro, for following me and helping me out! And please, I love any help you have to offer, so if you ever have any advice, ideas, anything, I'd love to hear it! I appreciate it all very very much!

I will post pics when they sprout, no need to till then, nothing to show...

 

[RVgrower]

I would like to follow along with your journal, I like the use of the space.

If your talking mini Hempy cups with soil there are a few people I know that do this. I think they do thirds of the cup like you were talkingabout, bottom all perlite middle 50/50 perlite soiil top third all soil. I think BlueDog did that very knowledgeable about Hempy. Hot nail or drill bit works good probably 7/16" maybe a little smaller in a mini Hempy.

From what I've read you would be better off with your lights horizontal if you want to add more lights you can get the Y adapters and have two light per clamp light.

Hope this helps some.

Hello PBRMJ,
First of all, so nice to meet you, a nd thank you so much for stopping' by to check on me and my funny little grow here! lol!
And, thank you so much for reminding me of the right grow journal I was thinking of! I think you ARE right about it being BlueDog that I'm thinking of doing the solo "Hempy" soil /perlite mix cups....THANK YOU SO MUCH! I will go look it up again...I just think it's really going to be the way for me to go with my 2 to 4 plants, he had great root development I think I remember with that system, the transplants had roots filling the cup to the bottom a week after he did the initial transplant!!! THAT'S the kind of growth I'M looking for! I got my Fox Farms Ocean Forest soil waiting to go...will be buying ferts in a week or so but not going to have to use it for a while, cuz I keep hearing that the FFOF gives em enough to last about 3 weeks minimum....
And as for the lights, as I was telling the other guys regarding their responses to the same question I had about my light situation, I had already had that in mind even last week shopping at Walmart but they had no y connectors for the bulbs, so I have to get them at the hardware store in a week or so, as soon as I can I am getting them, and 2 more bulbs from the Walmart, at least they have those!

And one morething,bro, what do you think about me removing the reflector dishes so more light from the skylight can come down thru, or should I just leave them on to direct the light straight down? I have no way of altering this tub/ shower, so I HAVE to hang these lights like I am from this removable shower curtain rod i'm using as a lighting track kind of!

Anyhow, just looking for yours and anyone's ideas on that question...

Thanks again for stopping by and for the great advice! Drop by with any advice anytime! lol! Seriously tho, thank you very much, and nice to meet you PBRMJ!

 

[HempRocket]

 

[McCrackin]

If the plant is an auto 20/4 the whole way, to bud... sure but it might take 6 months...

go 24/0 in veg and then 12/12 in bloom after a month or so... that's the formula and that's the way to ensure success.

Look-up photo-period mj in google.

Now that I see autoflower... I suggest going 12/12 the whole way start tonight.

my 2 cents.

 

[HempRocket]

No disrespect McCrackin but Ed Rosenthal suggests giving plants 24 hours of light. If they are auto's, 24 hours whole way through.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Hey RVG! You got the start of a great journal here, and best wishes for a successful grow.

A couple of suggestions, I'd make is first, there are a lot of people who do really well with straight CFL grows and, unfortunately, the "cheap" LED's on the market tend to not be very effective. I would try to use 6500K CFL for vegging and the 2700K's you have pictured for flowering.

Also, I recommend replacing the tin foil with either a mylar emergency blanket (you can get them for about $1 at walmart in the camping section) or even a mylar windshield sun reflector that you can pick up cheap (probably $1!) in a dollar store. The tin foil is not that reflective and can cause hot spots, so just upgrading that should provide much better lighting.

I'm sub'd for the rest of the way and wish you the best for a healthy harvest!

 

[Mr. Krip]

No disrespect McCrackin but Ed Rosenthal suggests giving plants 24 hours of light. If they are auto's, 24 hours whole way through.

I have to agree with Hemp on this, based on the research I've done. The advantages of the dark period are lower energy costs and cooler temps, but the plants develop more rapidly under 24/0 and do not require a dark period.

 

[RVgrower]

Qouted from McCrackin:

"If the plant is an auto 20/4 the whole way, to bud... sure but it might take 6 months...

go 24/0 in veg and then 12/12 in bloom after a month or so... that's the formula and that's the way to ensure success.

Look-up photo-period mj in google.

Now that I see autoflower... I suggest going 12/12 the whole way start tonight.

my 2 cents." By McCrackin, in a statement on this thread @ 8:57pm tonight, 03-28-11


Wow! So many great growers stopping' by to see my lil' grow...I don't know where to start, so as always, the fair way, is from 1st on down! First comment since my last report is from McCrackin, so I have to say,
"Hello & nice to meet ya McCrackin!" Ya, she's a feminized autoflower, but of course, the supplier's stats say she was supposed to mature, and go from "...seed to harvest in 7-9 weeks", and that is one of the BIGGEST reasons I picked her...in return, of course, her harvest is a little smaller than I could have had with another plant, which is a reason why I went with only 1 AKR instead of the 3 I could have....the other seed I got for free with the AKR's was this Kannabia Special, a "new strain" that they were just giving out to us w/ our orders at that time cuz it was so new, & it was a much larger producing skunk hybrid-kind of strain, an Indica with a Sativa side, as they put it...will be bigger and smellier than AKR, but not as much THC, only 15% compared to lil' AKR's 22%!
And I appreciate your opinion, bro, thank you so much for taking the time to stop by and read up on this and try to help me, that is so cool man, and I really thank you so much...I am taking in everyone's experiences and opinions and asking questions like this so that I can get to be a great grower someday like you guys and give back & help others too...This grow may take a while, especially if these seeds never sprout & I have to start over, a set back of about 3 weeks I would guess, but I'm learning stuff, like you guys were here just looking at my set up and saying, "try this, then do that...etc....", like a good friend would, and I can't thank you enough. and sorry, no pics till they bust thru, there's just no point in it, ya know?
Okay, again, many thanks, and I appreciate your help, so much! Nice to meet you, McCrackin, talk to ya soon...

 

[RVgrower]

No disrespect McCrackin but Ed Rosenthal suggests giving plants 24 hours of light. If they are auto's, 24 hours whole way through.

I've left the lights on for almost 48 hrs now, ever since I read what you said about doing that because it will just help bring things up to speed and then possibly give some dark cycles when we want her to flower out, right? I mean, if she don't do it on her own after a month or so in veg and she'd be full size or whatever...as we know, this is my first "real" grow, inside, with proper seeds and equipment & a serious attitude to learn & grow myself the best medicinal herb I possibly can...and you're all a part of this with me, I can't thank you enough! I will listen to the debate you guys are having on this subject of lighting, and read and learn some more myself, then when the decision has to be made, I'm sure I will make the right one, because I have you all behind me now, and I am sure whatever I decide at that point will be okay...
You're awesome HempRoocket, I truly am thankful for the time you are spending trying to help me, I can never thank you enough....but I'll keep trying! lol!
Thanks so much,

 

[RVgrower]

Hey RVG! You got the start of a great journal here, and best wishes for a successful grow.

A couple of suggestions, I'd make is first, there are a lot of people who do really well with straight CFL grows and, unfortunately, the "cheap" LED's on the market tend to not be very effective. I would try to use 6500K CFL for vegging and the 2700K's you have pictured for flowering.

Also, I recommend replacing the tin foil with either a mylar emergency blanket (you can get them for about $1 at walmart in the camping section) or even a mylar windshield sun reflector that you can pick up cheap (probably $1!) in a dollar store. The tin foil is not that reflective and can cause hot spots, so just upgrading that should provide much better lighting.

I'm sub'd for the rest of the way and wish you the best for a healthy harvest!

And Hello! to you, Mr.Krip! Thanks for stopping by to see the beginnings of my different little grow here I got going!
I am already checking prices and availability of the LEDs on craigslist and bay, used but in really good condition is what I'm looking for, and they ARE there, in fact I found a real nice one, I can't remember the brand name, but it's a 300W red/blue/white, in the box, only 300 hrs on it, and it was like $200 or $180, something like that, WAY WAY WAY cheaper than the same one new! An this is the one O keep seeing everyone buying! So I know it's okay, I ALWAYS research EVERYTHING I'm going to buy that costs good money! I'm a freak about it! Anyhow, so I can't buy any, not just yet, but they are there, so I will get some when I can, till then I am planning on having double the lights by this tomorrow noon....going to get those going at least...

OH! that mylar situation you mentioned....it's not foil , I know better than to use than hun, it's the actual mylar they put as the inside lining of the "Purina Beneful Dog Food" line, and my dog were already eating that brand! SO all we did was save up the last 3, it's enough while they haven't even popped thru the soil with any green leaves yet! And we are getting ready to buy another bag of dog food, to give us 4 within the week as well. As time goes on, & the plants grow, we will continue to save the liners till we have all we need...That's why in my first sets of pics at the beginning of my thread, you'll see the "Command" brand removable "sticky" tabs that holds posters, what ever, so I can use them to easily and quickly attach & remove the mylar pieces as needed...But thanks for looking' out for me! What if it WASN'T Mylar, and really WAS foil!? Then you'd have saved my crops! So I do appreciate your looking out for it anyways!

And yes, like I said, I double the light tomorrow, and I CAN see the AKR seed tap root is getting longer, slowly but surely, and the seed husk has pushed up on top and I think is ever so slowly just going to come up and off on top, but it's going to take time....I don't know what to do but just keep them in the seedling cells that I re-warapped with the saran wrap to keep them warmer and more moist, so that germination can finish and give me some real seedlings with a few green cotyledons...THEN I can really relax and know for sure that these girls are going to make it, I can grow anything I think, once it's up out of the ground! lol!

So thanks again for the advice, I really appreciate it, and feel free to give me any ideas or ask any questions, anytime, thanks for subscribing too!

 

[Mr. Krip]

RVG, sounds like you've got a good grasp and I like the ingenuity on the dog food liners!

I'm a big fan of LED's and using one for flower in my grow. I'm sure it's a good light you're looking at, I just know that when money is tight, a measley $50 can be "expensive" - even if it's for a $500 light.

I'm not in any way suggesting you don't upgrade, I was just pointing out that there are some very good grows documented here using nothing but CFL's, IF you wanted to save some money. My warning was more against trying to buy one of the cheap $20-$50 LED panels you'll see on eBay, etc. which are mostly just junk.

Unfortunately, there's a lot of mis-information on LED's by both dishonest sales people and by "LED haters". I'm not either!

 

[RVgrower]

Hey everyone, it's late on Monday night, and I sit here, thankful for all your support, of course, but very sad and frustrated as all HELL, that my so-called, "germinated seeds", are NOT done germinating apparently. It's the 28th....I soaked them on the 15th of this month, ( in ph neutral water with some Superthrive in it) only an hour that day, MISTAKE #1...and then planted them in seedling soil and misted the soil tops with more Superthrive water, covered the whole tray in saran wrap and put it on a heating pad on low to make it about 75 to 80 degrees in the soil for them to germinate, wrapped all that in towels, and after 36 hours or so, when I checked the first time, the seeds had cracked open on the one side along the seam and had a baby tap root about 1/64th inch long. I thought that was all I needed to get it going, AND our cucumber seeds we were also germinating had germinated and were standing up an inch or more tall already! In 36hrs! and now, 10 days after taking off the saran wrap, but 2 days since I put it back on, and now the seed husks are still on my seeds but they do look different, the AKR's looks all mis-shapen, and split up both seams I could just barely see, but it's still just hanging on, and the Kannabia Special is looking stagnant, or should I say WAS, but with 2 days back in the heat and moisture, under a little soil, with 24 hrs of sunlight, even it looks different, mis-shaped is all I can say. So I think something's happening... and when the soil in there dries out, I mist the top like once, then rewrap it, that's only once every 2-3 days, and they are on 24/0 light now, not going to touch them except to mist soil when it's dry until they pop up green with some cotyledons, THEN i can transfer them into "Hempy-soil cups" like I have seen others do with great success, till then I watch and wait on my mmj babies to come out into the world and care for our other babies- the veggie seeds, that are all between 1 & 1/2 inches and 3 inches tall already, and I pull them out at night for 10-12 hours, and they sit on the kitchen table...we have about another week to 10 days to make sure it's time to plant them outdoors..
Anyways, I hate to post pics of saran wrapped paper seedling cell that doesn't show anything yet, so I will post new pics when they break ground and show us their green!

Till then, thanks to ALL of you that are helping me along, I truly appreciate it! We will get there, I think it's just really challenging my patience, and that's like the hardest thing for me to do, so I know that's why this is happening...I'm getting thru it, I will get thru it, and I want you all to see my babies as they group to be beautiful ladies, just like yours do!

Have a great night everyone, keep it green!

 

[RVgrower]

RVG, sounds like you've got a good grasp and I like the ingenuity on the dog food liners!

I'm a big fan of LED's and using one for flower in my grow. I'm sure it's a good light you're looking at, I just know that when money is tight, a measley $50 can be "expensive" - even if it's for a $500 light.

I'm not in any way suggesting you don't upgrade, I was just pointing out that there are some very good grows documented here using nothing but CFL's, IF you wanted to save some money. My warning was more against trying to buy one of the cheap $20-$50 LED panels you'll see on eBay, etc. which are mostly just junk.

Unfortunately, there's a lot of mis-information on LED's by both dishonest sales people and by "LED haters". I'm not either!

Just about to sign off after my last post and saw this one Mr. Krip,
And THANK YOU! See? This is why I keep thanking you all...you guys are looking' out for me, and I appreciate it, because I am in a very rural area, about 150 miles from any major city, and the hydroponics and lighting specialty shops that some people have access to in the city, so I CAN'T go look at, and touch, and just see in person, these lights and pictures just don't show you the REAL stuff that's important...Yeah, I saw some starting at 10.99 on bay, and I aid, okay I know those are going to be crap...but I DID see a few good and for real lights that I have seen other members on here using, so I know they were a good deal for the price they were being sold at...so if, and when I get about $150 to $200 for some LED's I'm going to DEFINITELY get them!

Okay, just wanted to thank you again for the heads up my brother!