UncleCannabis' Indoor Ganja Grove - Organic Soil - Sea of Green

[UncleCannabis]

Subbed awe inspiring thread Uncle... could it be colchicine, used to feminize, causing leaf to deform? Read it sumwhere a long time ago in college maybe...gahk!

This is something that I've considered. Thing is, she appeared to be healthy at first then began developing these symptoms after about day 10 or so and it's progressively gotten worse.

Thanks a bunch for offering up your thoughts on this. Much appreciated!!

 

[LEDBud]

I remember now , 15 years ago I had a plant that was nearly the same as miss droopy.Just as droopy.

I think it may be a genetic fault of some type , or perhaps a throw back to its ancient ancestry

or they both suffered from the same aliment. I bet there is a write up about the droop somewhere.

 

[Weaselcracker]

If she can ride that hard, get that wet, and live to tell about it, then maybe I should reconsider and do everything possible to save her.

Crazy bitch?
Succulent damsel in distress?
A fine and dangerous line indeed.

 

[bobrown14]

Good of you to stop by Mr Am4zin! You've arrived just in time to get preferential seating.

Of course we have brownies. We also have canna infused oatmeal cookies and banana nut muffins.
If you prefer sticky buds, hash, or keif we've got some of that too. Here at the Ganja Grove there are all sorts of Scooby snacks to keep smiles on everyone's faces.

Well in that case... ahem ahem, excuse me ... sliding thru.... Sub'd! Looking good so far.

Just curious why did you top your girls there?? I run SOG and never top. Topping slows things down too much for my likes.

Reps on the organics - you have a nice selection of plants there UC - good luck with your grow this round, I'm sure you will improve on the last run.

Blumats work great for getting the ladies thru some time away. Our last run during the Summer we went on vacation for 3 weeks and then another week so 4 weeks out of 9 weeks in flower and all the ladies pulled thru not very many issues at least not any to complain about. Getting the blumats dialed in is the trick. Keep an eye out until you are comfortable they are working as expected. I've had a few run away on me and make a mess on the grow room floor. Plants were ok tho.

 

[bobrown14]

I was away for the weekend and arrived home just before lights off so I was a bit hurried with the picture taking. This morning I was able to get back in the tent and take a pic of my Grape Stomper OG girl.

Notice how curled and wrinkled she is. Every time I've seen this it's been due to ph being way off. I've checked ph and I'm getting the same 6.2 readings as the other pots. PH has actually climbed to 6.4 since topdressing but this is the only girl that's having issues like this. I'm going to wait a week or so to see how she responds to ph adjustment before doing anything else.

Have any of you grown out Grape Stomper OG before and experienced something like this? Does anyone have any other ideas other than possible ph issues?

You're in organic soil right?? I wouldn't over think the PH thing. I haven't used a PH meter in .... 1.5 years or 8+ runs with no issues.

Let your micro-organisms regulate the growing medium and you should be fine. Once you start messing with PH the amendments you use to change PH will only be temporary to ease YOUR mind and won't really do anything long term in your soil and depending on your choice of amendments could actually do more harm than good.

I don't take one plant growing weird like that as a soil issue. Most likely its a genetics thing. When I get a plant that gets wonky I let it go... if I don't see improvements and plant starting to look more canna like, I cull and move on, not worth messing with. IMHO

Sometimes we get something like that from a clone.. mutant = compost. I usually get my wife to cull and compost. She's really good at selective gardening. Not every plant is 100% worthy. If you keep a sickly plant around it will attract baddies you do not want in your grow room. Passing along some of my experiences ... TIFWIW.

 

[UncleCannabis]

Well in that case... ahem ahem, excuse me ... sliding thru.... Sub'd! Looking good so far.

Just curious why did you top your girls there?? I run SOG and never top. Topping slows things down too much for my likes.

Reps on the organics - you have a nice selection of plants there UC - good luck with your grow this round, I'm sure you will improve on the last run.

Blumats work great for getting the ladies thru some time away. Our last run during the Summer we went on vacation for 3 weeks and then another week so 4 weeks out of 9 weeks in flower and all the ladies pulled thru not very many issues at least not any to complain about. Getting the blumats dialed in is the trick. Keep an eye out until you are comfortable they are working as expected. I've had a few run away on me and make a mess on the grow room floor. Plants were ok tho.

Hey there BB.
Good of you to slide by. Pull up a chair and have a brownie.

I top in order to keep a low and even canopy. Based on the experience of others it seems that SCROG produces the best yields per square foot when growing indoors with LED's. It also seems that with the SCROG method, the majority of the buds are of a high quality due to the even light distribution and intensity throughout the canopy.
The other route to optimum yields appears to be going 12/12 from seed or within the first couple of weeks of veg using high plant counts (not topped) with small pots or in planting beds.

I don't care to mess with scrog frames and nets and I prefer to let a plant mature a bit before flowering it out so that rules out both of the above grow methods.
SOG with plants topped and trained to maintain a low canopy seems to be a compromise between the two.
I get good light penetration, there's not much wasted space, plant canopy can be maintained pretty evenly, and the canopy depth can be maintained within the penetration capability of my lights. So far it seems to be working well for my needs and garden setup.

To date, I've never been in a hurry to go from veg to bloom. In fact, I usually find myself with too many plants in the veg tent without any space in the flowering tent.

You're in organic soil right?? I wouldn't over think the PH thing. I haven't used a PH meter in .... 1.5 years or 8+ runs with no issues.

Let your micro-organisms regulate the growing medium and you should be fine. Once you start messing with PH the amendments you use to change PH will only be temporary to ease YOUR mind and won't really do anything long term in your soil and depending on your choice of amendments could actually do more harm than good.

I don't take one plant growing weird like that as a soil issue. Most likely its a genetics thing. When I get a plant that gets wonky I let it go... if I don't see improvements and plant starting to look more canna like, I cull and move on, not worth messing with. IMHO

Sometimes we get something like that from a clone.. mutant = compost. I usually get my wife to cull and compost. She's really good at selective gardening. Not every plant is 100% worthy. If you keep a sickly plant around it will attract baddies you do not want in your grow room. Passing along some of my experiences ... TIFWIW.

Emphasis on soil buffering capability or soil ph has been preached to me over and over and over and over and over......since my early years in 4-H and beyond.
I've attended numerous workshops over the years about the importance of soil ph and managing soil ph buffering capacity which were hosted by US and state department of agriculture guru's many of whom were highly qualified with PhD's in agronomy, chemistry, botany, microbiology, and other areas of specialty that I can't even spell. Not once did any of these experts even whisper that soil ph buffering capacity is not important or that it was irrelevant.
Practicing what they've preached has always served me well over the years so I've been reluctant to just throw caution to the wind and ignore soil ph completely.
Something else to consider is that many beneficial bacteria do not like acidic soils. If soil ph dips below the mid to low 6's the fungi to beneficial bacteria ratio get thrown out of whack with fungi becoming heavily dominant.
If we are to depend on the soil microlife for nutrient availability shouldn't we be paying attention to ph in order to promote healthy microlife? To me it all seems intertwined.

I understand the logic behind the "don't worry about ph when growing organically" thing but I'm reluctant to change what may be outdated ways. Maybe it's because it's never been explained to me in a way that is convincing enough to counter what I've been taught and what I've experienced over the years.

This is a subject that I'm very interested in and have an open mind about.
Anyone that can make me see the light get's a lifetime supply of free brownies.

 

[olderthandirt]

What's yer preferred method of checking the ph Unc.

Soil probe or sampling run-off or or or......

Thanks

 

[bobrown14]

It's all good UC thanks for the brownie and take a puff with me her ya go

RE soil PH, not ready to go down that path here just yet, but I will most assuredly come back to you with some facts that may or may not explain my way of gardening.

My basic premise is get the soil dialed in there will be plenty of organic matter and bacteria/fungi to keep the soil buffered to the proper PH for the micro organisms living in the soil. This gets down to building a proper compost/vermi-compost pile and mixing that into soil to grow in and all I have to do is water with RO water. I could go all cycle with just water.

We really are splitting hairs so its not a big issue, cept when I see folks adding it stuff like Cal/Mag which will do noting for PH and actually kill off certain microbes in the soil food web, throwing the soil out of balance causing larger issues.

If I have 20 plants going at any given time and one starts to look sickly.. it gets tossed pronto, its not the soil or I would have other plants with the same issues. Thats why I don't stress about PH. Of course it's important but the living soil will regulate it. We've been growing organically for a long long time and the only time PH ever came up was when I started growing cannabis. I just said forgetaboutit and we will grow the same way we do in our outdoor gardens and ever since I started doing it that way indoors, I've had much better success.


Anyways good luck with your grow here this run, I have a feeling you will do very well.

 

[CajunCelt]

I quit my flood n drain & dwc grows because I was tired of jacking with the pH all the time.

I'm all organic now (necessity), so pH is inherently taken care of.

By the way, your both saying the same mérde, just different points in the road...
Great info.

 

[SweetSue]

Is it possible all those govt. experts were speaking of the importance of ph when using fertilizers heavy in salts, the preferred method pushed by our government to the detriment of our soil communities? I ask, because there is no reason to be concerned with ph when you grow in a living organic soil. I'll take that challenge. How do you plan to keep me in those brownies, and can I have them made exclusively with sativas?

I don't have the answer prepared for you rightl now, but you have my assurance that I'll find an acceptable explaination for you. Give me a week or so.

 

[hockeybry2]

Got some nice strains I'll be keeping an eye on ...looking healthy! very curious about the grape ape and cherry og

 

[Robert Celt]

Sue's on a mission LOL

I tend to agree, to a point, with Bob, Cajun and Sue though. Its my understanding that if the soil is properly prepared with the C:N ratios within range and the starting pH in range, then our plants will thrive and the pH will fluctuate accordingly. I suspect there are exceptions to this and my own experience aids in my suspicion.

As with all things, user error will be the main determining factor mucking up a good soil (the experience) LOL such as too acidic/basic water overloading the soils ability to buffer, or in my case, using too much molasses causing readily available potassium levels to be high enough to cause Mg lockout in my flowering girls the first run.

 

[bobrown14]

Sue's on a mission LOL

I tend to agree, to a point, with Bob, Cajun and Sue though. Its my understanding that if the soil is properly prepared with the C:N ratios within range and the starting pH in range, then our plants will thrive and the pH will fluctuate accordingly. I suspect there are exceptions to this and my own experience aids in my suspicion.

As with all things, user error will be the main determining factor mucking up a good soil (the experience) LOL such as too acidic/basic water overloading the soils ability to buffer, or in my case, using too much molasses causing readily available potassium levels to be high enough to cause Mg lockout in my flowering girls the first run.

Yeah pretty much my experience as well... most all of any issues sans runts or genetic issues are my operator error. Usually its over watering for me. I get sad when I go to the flower room and find a lady in distress with drooping leaves, so I tend to muck about with too much water so the ladies don't suffer and then BAM over watering is MUCH worse.

Our Purple Pineberry is finally in bloom!

Sorry for the weird colors ... forgot the change from VEG to flower on my camera (white balance) - I'll post proper pics in my journal tomorrow. PPB went from no flowers to a crap load overnight. (note to self - start some more seedlings this is VERY nice strain).

UC this buds for you - cheers:

 

[hockeybry2]

I almost got the purple pine berry in my last order! Looks super happy

 

[UncleCannabis]

What's yer preferred method of checking the ph Unc.

Soil probe or sampling run-off or or or......

Thanks

Hey there olderthandirt. Preferred method would be to have a soil test done as this would not only confirm pH but it would also provide a general summary of the nutrient and mineral content. I've had some worm castings and base soil tested here locally once but it was a real hassle to get it done so I haven't done any further testing of any ingredients or soil mixes since.

I normally use a probe type pH meter. The one that I use is the cone shaped meter at the bottom of the pic.

After a heavy watering I wait about 10 minutes then stick the probe deep within the pot or soil bin and wait about a minute or two for equilibrium to occur.

 

[UncleCannabis]

It's all good UC thanks for the brownie and take a puff with me her ya go

RE soil PH, not ready to go down that path here just yet, but I will most assuredly come back to you with some facts that may or may not explain my way of gardening.

My basic premise is get the soil dialed in there will be plenty of organic matter and bacteria/fungi to keep the soil buffered to the proper PH for the micro organisms living in the soil. This gets down to building a proper compost/vermi-compost pile and mixing that into soil to grow in and all I have to do is water with RO water. I could go all cycle with just water.

We really are splitting hairs so its not a big issue, cept when I see folks adding it stuff like Cal/Mag which will do noting for PH and actually kill off certain microbes in the soil food web, throwing the soil out of balance causing larger issues.

If I have 20 plants going at any given time and one starts to look sickly.. it gets tossed pronto, its not the soil or I would have other plants with the same issues. Thats why I don't stress about PH. Of course it's important but the living soil will regulate it. We've been growing organically for a long long time and the only time PH ever came up was when I started growing cannabis. I just said forgetaboutit and we will grow the same way we do in our outdoor gardens and ever since I started doing it that way indoors, I've had much better success.


Anyways good luck with your grow here this run, I have a feeling you will do very well.

I quit my flood n drain & dwc grows because I was tired of jacking with the pH all the time.

I'm all organic now (necessity), so pH is inherently taken care of.

By the way, your both saying the same mérde, just different points in the road...
Great info.

Is it possible all those govt. experts were speaking of the importance of ph when using fertilizers heavy in salts, the preferred method pushed by our government to the detriment of our soil communities? I ask, because there is no reason to be concerned with ph when you grow in a living organic soil. I'll take that challenge. How do you plan to keep me in those brownies, and can I have them made exclusively with sativas?

I don't have the answer prepared for you rightl now, but you have my assurance that I'll find an acceptable explaination for you. Give me a week or so.

Sue's on a mission LOL

I tend to agree, to a point, with Bob, Cajun and Sue though. Its my understanding that if the soil is properly prepared with the C:N ratios within range and the starting pH in range, then our plants will thrive and the pH will fluctuate accordingly. I suspect there are exceptions to this and my own experience aids in my suspicion.

As with all things, user error will be the main determining factor mucking up a good soil (the experience) LOL such as too acidic/basic water overloading the soils ability to buffer, or in my case, using too much molasses causing readily available potassium levels to be high enough to cause Mg lockout in my flowering girls the first run.

It good to know that I'm not the only one that has an interest in what goes on below the soil line.

It's my understanding that the laws of organic chemistry still apply. Example - If gypsum is used as a calcium source and soil pH falls below around 5.5ish or so, it should result in the calcium ions attracting and bonding with aluminum ions instead of phosphorus ions resulting in P deficiency and aluminum toxicity. Nutrient lockouts and/or toxicity conditions due to pH still apply. I think..... LOL!!

If a typical agricultural soil has an optimum carbon to nitrogen ratio and nutrients are properly balanced then pH will typically fall somewhere between 7.0ish to 6.2ish. If this is achieved and pH can be maintained within the preferred range of the plant that is being grown then everything is all good. No problems, crops are abundant, and no pH testing was needed. This doesn't mean that pH didn't matter or play a critical role in the success of the crop.

What doesn't matter so much when growing in organic soil is the pH of the irrigation water. The reason for this is due to the pH buffering capacity of the organic soil. As long as the soil has adequate pH buffering capacity and the irrigation water does not contain excessive nasties such as salts or heavy metals the soil will not be adversely affected.

I've been paying close attention to soil pH during my last 2 runs and have some ideas about whats going on and how to possibly improve pH buffering capacity.
I have some trimming to do today but I'll elaborate later this evening when I'm back online.

 

[UncleCannabis]

Yeah pretty much my experience as well... most all of any issues sans runts or genetic issues are my operator error. Usually its over watering for me. I get sad when I go to the flower room and find a lady in distress with drooping leaves, so I tend to muck about with too much water so the ladies don't suffer and then BAM over watering is MUCH worse.

Our Purple Pineberry is finally in bloom!

Sorry for the weird colors ... forgot the change from VEG to flower on my camera (white balance) - I'll post proper pics in my journal tomorrow. PPB went from no flowers to a crap load overnight. (note to self - start some more seedlings this is VERY nice strain).

UC this buds for you - cheers:

She's looking good BB!! Last I saw of her you had just flipped her to 12/12. I'll be stoping by your garden later to have a peek.

We're on the same page about the Grape Stomper OG girl but I may keep her around as a Halloween decoration before trashing her.

 

[Robert Celt]

I am looking forward to the thoughts you have developed on pH buffering UncleC.

We often spend a fair amount of time on various threads discussing soils and amendments, sometimes almost as much time as we do discussing our plants LOL I think many of us, whether we know it or not, realize that the success of our plants is determined by how successfully we build our soils (all other things being equal)

I highly value UncleC's input because he has a background, and much more experience, in agriculture than I LOL I can do the research and understand the chemistry, it was part of my engineering training, but nothing beats hands on experience

 

[olderthandirt]

...
I normally use a probe type pH meter....

Thanks Unc (-:

 

[SweetSue]

I look forward to those thoughts as well. Good point about the water. It's a given that one should assure that the water we offer the plants is not polluted to an extent that it would damage the plants. Bad water would challenge any grow. What you were inquiring about was whether, given good soil and good water, one should be concerned with checking the PH levels? Am I correct here? Yes, PH is always a concern, but given a sound soil mix and adequate water supplies the buffering ability of the soil should handle any ph concerns.

I still need to get you a credible source with a reasonable explanation based on science and not on conjecture.

That's a lifetime supply of Sativa-stuffed brownies, right?