Utopian Submarine - 2000W, Indoor, Perpetual

[Green Utopia]

420 Update

I've done NOTHING today! A great success!!!

Its 4:20

 

[bigdeal422]

Beautiful harvest with those nice buds. I look forward to growing some Diesel strains. Here is a pic of some diesel I get every once in a blue moon. Looks very similar in bud structure (I always say they look bubbly), but yours is a much better representation of that.

I'm tuned in for your grows now sir, keep up the great work. Everything looks very organized and meticulous.

 

[Green Utopia]

Beautiful harvest with those nice buds. I look forward to growing some Diesel strains. Here is a pic of some diesel I get every once in a blue moon. Looks very similar in bud structure (I always say they look bubbly), but yours is a much better representation of that.

I'm tuned in for your grows now sir, keep up the great work. Everything looks very organized and meticulous.

Thanks! Welcome aboard! That bud looks great! I think the pheno just tends towards those smaller buds. In my case its tough to say whether they would have been bigger if they had not been scrogged. The biggest I got from that one were about 5-6" long, 2-3" wide and dense.

 

[LiveTour]

Hi Papa Green! Stopping by to say hello and wowie wowie wow bro! Your doing great! Your right those SD nugs in the back too a lil bit of tough love, yet still look like they came out sic! I can't wait to see the next harvest

 

[OldMedMan]

Congrats on even more boxes of buds. PaPa

 

[OldMedUser]

High Papa. Long time, no see. My bad for sure.

Nice stuff you've got going on and smoking ones harvest is one of life's greatest joys.

Digging your ScroG as mine is getting close to filling and is responding great to frequent infusions of nutes.

I got a good FIM on my Kali clone and have decided to use her for breeding stock. I might be wrong but I think that using lower buds on the ScroG might send the wrong message to the colas and they may not get as big. I'll take some clones first and flower the ScroG and clone at the same time. After a few weeks when the buds are poppin' I'll take the clone upstairs for a good dusting of pollen then put her back a couple of days later after a shower.

I'm aiming for a half pound off this one plant ScroG as I got close to that with lots of plants in one tub. It is a lot more hands-on than usual but is great therapy for those with time on their hands. If I do get 8 ozs off the one plant it will be worth the effort by a long shot.

I plan to trim out any potential popcorn buds long before they bud and concentrate on a few dozen decent colas to achieve my lofty goals. Your tip of no supports for the screen seems very valid and mine is basically floating now but I think I'll keep the supports on for this one and see what happens.

 

[Green Utopia]

High Papa. Long time, no see. My bad for sure.

Nice stuff you've got going on and smoking ones harvest is one of life's greatest joys.

Digging your ScroG as mine is getting close to filling and is responding great to frequent infusions of nutes.

I got a good FIM on my Kali clone and have decided to use her for breeding stock. I might be wrong but I think that using lower buds on the ScroG might send the wrong message to the colas and they may not get as big. I'll take some clones first and flower the ScroG and clone at the same time. After a few weeks when the buds are poppin' I'll take the clone upstairs for a good dusting of pollen then put her back a couple of days later after a shower.

I'm aiming for a half pound off this one plant ScroG as I got close to that with lots of plants in one tub. It is a lot more hands-on than usual but is great therapy for those with time on their hands. If I do get 8 ozs off the one plant it will be worth the effort by a long shot.

I plan to trim out any potential popcorn buds long before they bud and concentrate on a few dozen decent colas to achieve my lofty goals. Your tip of no supports for the screen seems very valid and mine is basically floating now but I think I'll keep the supports on for this one and see what happens.

Right on bro. I think you are spot on with EVERYTHING you just said. I can't wait to see it. As far as the colas vs the other buds. I agree. By observation only - no scientific basis for this - I think the plants basically allocate a certain percentage of their nutes to the biggest buds. In other words, if you can supply the plant with sufficient nutes, then the over all size of the buds will be bigger, but on a plant by plant basis - each plant will give more to its favorite buds. So at a certain point its the stem and roots that become the limiting factor. But then factor in light. I think the plant allocates nutes based on light as well. Buds that can see the light get much better treatment from the plant than those that can't. Again strictly my own observations - I think these two factors are what influence the size of the colas and the other buds.

So in your case - I think you're spot on in your plan. Trimming the lower stuff will send a higher percentage of everything to the bigger stuff, and ensure they have the nutes to be happy.

 

[Green Utopia]

Hi Papa Green! Stopping by to say hello and wowie wowie wow bro! Your doing great! Your right those SD nugs in the back too a lil bit of tough love, yet still look like they came out sic! I can't wait to see the next harvest

Thanks! You gonna check out Phish this tour by some chance?

Congrats on even more boxes of buds. PaPa

 

[vspec]

Got a question for you papa, In the spirit of making it interesting, going to fill in the background story first, so the question will prob be at the end ok.


The Beginning

Ive been trawling a few local Hydro stores as of late, basicly for myself getting up to speed on the latest products, technologies and all that other jazz.

Now Im not exactly stupid, nor totally green for that matter, and what I am lacking in the knowledge department I tend to piece together through logic at a frightening pace. However as a retail default exercise, i always give the impression I'm green.

You find this very quickly weeds out those whom are predominately sales driven vs those whom actually listen & cater for your needs exclusively.
I've walked from a few, never to return already.

The Middle Journey

On driving home the other night I noticed a store I didn't know existed. I over shot the parking mark before i realised & decided to swing around the back.
Consequently i stumbled on this one guy, quite a mean looking biker with an even meaner looking Harley. The custom air brushed paint job was something else though.

Having biker mates in the past Im more than aware of the love affair between man & machine, so i initiated random contact on that level.
In doing so found out he worked 1 day a week in the store & was retired.

Retired!! - he didn't look a day over 40, & sure as sh^t didn't look like the type of person whom just sold his stock options in google..lol


The End & Ultimately the Beginning

The dude was pretty cool actually, like a steel coated marsh mellow.
We chatted for a good hour & half on heaps of aspects of hydro amongst other things. He thought it was amusing that growing vege's wasn't code for growing dope and I appreciated a quality no BS session. I mean he was actually discouraging me from buying or looking at certain items.

Which brings me to my question.

He believes you cater for the individual. 1 light per plant, decreasing your plant footprint (and associated risks of volumes) and focus on the horizontal spread exclusivity.
He said if you take the time to do it correctly, you can get more from 1 than you can from 12 that are bunched regardless.

Your thoughts?

 

[slimm]

The answer to that question depends, in part, on how long you want to veg them. 12/12 from seed would do better with a dozen plants under one light while a long veg cycle plant will need more space and light. Crowded plants do not grow as well.

 

[Green Utopia]

Got a question for you papa, In the spirit of making it interesting, going to fill in the background story first, so the question will prob be at the end ok.


The Beginning

Ive been trawling a few local Hydro stores as of late, basicly for myself getting up to speed on the latest products, technologies and all that other jazz.

Now Im not exactly stupid, nor totally green for that matter, and what I am lacking in the knowledge department I tend to piece together through logic at a frightening pace. However as a retail default exercise, i always give the impression I'm green.

You find this very quickly weeds out those whom are predominately sales driven vs those whom actually listen & cater for your needs exclusively.
I've walked from a few, never to return already.

The Middle Journey

On driving home the other night I noticed a store I didn't know existed. I over shot the parking mark before i realised & decided to swing around the back.
Consequently i stumbled on this one guy, quite a mean looking biker with an even meaner looking Harley. The custom air brushed paint job was something else though.

Having biker mates in the past Im more than aware of the love affair between man & machine, so i initiated random contact on that level.
In doing so found out he worked 1 day a week in the store & was retired.

Retired!! - he didn't look a day over 40, & sure as sh^t didn't look like the type of person whom just sold his stock options in google..lol


The End & Ultimately the Beginning

The dude was pretty cool actually, like a steel coated marsh mellow.
We chatted for a good hour & half on heaps of aspects of hydro amongst other things. He thought it was amusing that growing vege's wasn't code for growing dope and I appreciated a quality no BS session. I mean he was actually discouraging me from buying or looking at certain items.

Which brings me to my question.

He believes you cater for the individual. 1 light per plant, decreasing your plant footprint (and associated risks of volumes) and focus on the horizontal spread exclusivity.
He said if you take the time to do it correctly, you can get more from 1 than you can from 12 that are bunched regardless.

Your thoughts?

The answer to that question depends, in part, on how long you want to veg them. 12/12 from seed would do better with a dozen plants under one light while a long veg cycle plant will need more space and light. Crowded plants do not grow as well.

Very cool story, and that's the way I do some research as well. I am forced to do more on-line, but I have used that same feigning ignorance with my hydro guys - same results. One guy always parrots the manufacturers and never gives any real insight, and in fact has told me things that were wrong, like "You can never have too much Cal-Mag" - his words exactly. The other guy is a little less experienced, but always gives an honest answer and will try to save me $ if possible.

Now - as far as the yield. I think slimm is 100% right on what he's said so far, but let me add to that a little cause its a great question.

I think there are sorta three key aspects to that question. And while it may not be always true, I think the biker was on the right track.

1 - Veg time. Definitely the longer the veg - the bigger the plant. And extra weeks at the end of veg can very quickly double your yield or more. Basically that whole 3 to 1 thing. For every 6" you add in veg you're adding a foot in flower, so veg is key.

2 - Pruning and manicure. This is the area that I think the biker was talking about. And here I couldn't agree more. Proper pruning and trimming has been the #1 improvement to my yield for sure. All else being the same - a well manicured plant will yield FAR more than one that was not pruned.

3 - I do think you still gotta factor in some vert. Its crazy not to. You should try to get that nice canopy, but if you fill the space horizontally, that's far more important than an extra inch or two of vert. But basically I think you should try to suck up all available light.

4 - I am still learning what the appropriate amount of branches is. I think it varies based on the health of the plant's stem and roots. The healthier those parts are, the more nutrients that can be delivered to the plant, and the more large buds it will be able to support.

5- There is some math that can be done.

For example a SOG vs big plants:

Let's say the goal is 1-1.5oz a week. If you veg for only a week in a SOG setup, and harvest every week with a 6 week flower, and allow 10 days for clones - then you're looking at 8 small areas. Each plant under those circumstances will likely yield about .75oz so you'll need two in each area to get your 1.5/wk. That's 16 small plants yielding up to 12oz every 8 weeks.

Now lets say we need to achieve this with a big one. Same flowering time of 6 weeks. Same clone time. What's gonna change is the Veg. This part requires some experience with your own plants to really get right, but for me to get those numbers indoors, under the same lights I would use for a SOG, I would need at least 4 plants probably. I get about 3-4oz per plant with a 5 week veg if I manicure. I get about 2oz/plant with no pruning. So back to the timeline - after 12 weeks I harvest up to 16oz from my 4 plants.

So:

EDIT: Total Stoner Dyslexia - fixed the math:

12oz/8wk = 1.5 oz/wk for the SOG

16oz/12wk = 1.33 oz/wk for manicured Big Plants.

But remember, if you fail to achieve the yield with a single big plant - you're screwed. But miss one with the SOG and its a speed bump.

But by the same token - taking care of 16 plants in 8 stages of growth can be far more of a pain in the ass than 4 single plants.

And finally - when you go perpetual the numbers change dramatically. You can redo the math - but basically subtract out any difference in veg time, since they'll be vegging in their own room. Then, all of a sudden the single plants become FAR more efficient. A SOG is perpetual by definition. If you go perpetual with a big plant garden then you're basically doing a SOG with big plants.

GREAT QUESTION!!!!

+Reps to both of you if I can.

 

[Green Utopia]

great lookin harvest, +rate ...

Thanks! Shame about Jack. I remember that book sitting on my coffee table in college sooo well. Green flimsy, looked like a cross between a comic book and a phone book.

But man was there soooo much proper info there.

Thanks for poking in!

+Reps back at ya for Jack

 

[vspec]

valid points, thanks gents

 

[Green Utopia]

Things are coming along ok. Got the two ACs running and its taking some real tweaking to get them to counter the CO2 Generator. The GEN2e has all 8 burners in it and I gotta figure out how to reduce that to 6. Also, when I checked last night - the flames were going even though the power was off to the unit. I'm waiting til things open on the west coast, but this has got me very worried.

I am still seeing the curling on the leaves of the Volde. I think the H202 is helping. Also, like a schmoe - I've been religiously checking the levels in the res, but forgot to actually check how much water was in there. So I think part of the problem is the water level in the buckets has dropped a few inches.

All else seems to be working fine. Still fighting the war of the SCROG. But the tides have turned and I'm getting it under control. A few tweaks daily is all that's required now.

The Volde has started to crystalize up a little and it is starting to form some decent looking buds. It has a lot of work to do if its gonna come anywhere close to the advertised specs from Barney's.

The Utopia is looking fantastic, but she continues to grow. I knew she was gonna be taller, but this is getting ridiculous. I've gotta try to get some good pics of one whole plant somehow. Gonna put a string along her stalk and branches as well to show her. I think if I could capture her beauty, then she'd be a Plant of the Month contender (is that still going?). Standing straight up she'd be at least 5'-6' tall. She is thick and wide as well. Definitely the best single plant I've ever grown.

So that's about it for this boring update. If anyone has any experience with a GEN2e-LP then please poke in any thoughts.

 

[marypierce]

Great job! This one is an instant classic! Thanks for the update

 

[Green Utopia]

And thanks for the kind words! Given the caliber of content on this site - that's high praise.

One word of caution - not sure what the link is in your sig - if its your page - then you should say that. If you're linking for SEO then you will likely get banned from this site.

 

[OldMedMan]

Hey PaPa Was just thinking of you old Buddy. I was looking through my hard drive a moment ago and a smile just happened when I saw the Pa Pa Green subdirectory. I keep the things that you have posted in your journal in this grow. Your descriptions and growing methods are priceless to me. I need help that's the first place I look. Thanks Pa Pa and yes I'm a thief.

 

[Superweed]

Win for PAPA

 

[vspec]

SEO its a somewhat interesting topic, although i can definitely see its implications.

I found the differences between white hat & black hat SEO techniques most interesting.

 

[Green Utopia]

Hey PaPa Was just thinking of you old Buddy. I was looking through my hard drive a moment ago and a smile just happened when I saw the Pa Pa Green subdirectory. I keep the things that you have posted in your journal in this grow. Your descriptions and growing methods are priceless to me. I need help that's the first place I look. Thanks Pa Pa and yes I'm a thief.

That's a real compliment OMM! I honestly was just reading a bunch of posts that you helped others, and your help was spot on. I was thinking that you have a really good grip on putting a bunch of small clues together with a calm overall demeanor and really offering good advice.

Win for PAPA

SEO its a somewhat interesting topic, although i can definitely see its implications.

I found the differences between white hat & black hat SEO techniques most interesting.

We will NOT talk about SEO here cause just the very discussion feeds the dark side and has nothing to do with cannabis or an enjoyable cannabis lifestyle. Not to be rude, but that convo is done.