300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

[go green]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

I'm not surprised that the high power/dollar LED did well, but that that hooded horizontal HPS grew equivalently.
I'm ever-more convinced that genetics rule, and that a wide range of conditions are all good.
The 'luxury consumption curve' applies to all specific growth needs

The war is like buying shoes at this point...there are many brands, many kinds, some better than others, some last longer than others, etc. etc...but in the end...the shoes cover our feet...and that's the goal we tend to lose site of...

Much respect to all in this thread. Lots of great information around us.

-Go

 

[HorseBadoritz]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

The war is like buying shoes at this point...there are many brands, many kinds, some better than others, some last longer than others, etc. etc...but in the end...the shoes cover our feet...and that's the goal we tend to lose site of...

Much respect to all in this thread. Lots of great information around us.

-Go

Bad boots can f@#k up a good war

 

[Peter Boyle]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Sun- the plants look fantastic- you ability to dial in the grow space to the LED is- well, I am speechless. Excellent, outstanding.

Down the terminology rat hole, final.


Again- the only way to know for sure is to see the photometric output chart, in absolute terms. I cannot say this enough, because it is the simple truth, and everyone interested in LED technology should know this fact. Any repectable LED maker should have this information readily available- either from a spectroradiometer or an integration sphere- we have several versions of both- this is simple, basic engineering equipment in the LED design field.

So everyone can get mad at me for this message and yell at me- I am married so I am accustomed to it. Still a big Seattle Seahawks fan, so you can see the level of abuse I can tolerate. If you can keep your argument strictly to the technical merits of what I have had to say, I am OK.

Thanks again Sun for the fantastic grow. Looking forward to more great work guys like you and Irish and the other guys have done for the humble LED.

You are absolutely correct. I, too, would like an accurate and useful way to compare leds. But until someone who is both trustworthy and able to break it down so the average grower can understand it, we are stuck with what has always worked well for most of us. We listen to those we trust who have done (whatever) and gotten "X" result.

I'm going to be setting up my new grow room next spring. I will probably go for the good quality leds...if this test shows at least an equal quality and quantity. It looks like the led side will weigh out heavier, but we will have to see what happens in the end.

Then there is the matter of quality. That, in its self is fraught with variables...not least of which is genetics (both the plant's and the person's) and that old indefinable "...I like that.".

I'm old and not one to jump on the latest whizbang thing. I don't do cutting edge. I still grow in soil because that is what I know well. It would seem that the leds offer several advantages, and the overall costs seem to favor the leds also. I think we are already at least a couple generations into using leds as grow lights, so I'm ready to give them a try....and I'll try the ones people I trust have already tried and proven. I know better than to go cheap....and the folly of the most expensive. I don't want a Pinto, but I also don't need a Jag. Bang for the buck is a curve and I try to pick the peak of that curve.

I know nothing of SS's reputation, but I've read the whole thread and think I can trust him on the lights. If his yield is even equal, that's good enough for me to make the switch to led. I suspect that the leds will show improved yield (at least) from what I have seen and read so far. As to the quality, I'll take his word for in. I'm a Widow and variants guy, so as long as he is comparing apples with apples, I'll assume that the Widow will perform approximately the same. https://www.420magazine.com/community/styles/420style/smilies/peace.gif

 

[molotov]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Great work SS. Maybe its me because I don't own the leds "yet." But although the leds look thicker I like the way the hid plants look better. Especially with the same light shining on them.They just seem more colorful to me and to tell you the truth they look frostier to me in these pics. Either way I'm convinced that an led is in my future for next summer. I'm still wondering if I could use one of the 380 glh lights on a mover in my 6 x 4 tent. I really would hate to have to buy 2. No, REAALLLYYY.
By the way after the flush with distilled water and a good dose of calmag and distilled water plus the trimming of all the real bad leaves, no new yellowing at lights on tonight. Actually the rest of the leaves greened up a bit. Do you think I should add more oc after the flush or wait and see what happens first? Thanks once again.

 

[thinkerr]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

i dont know anything about ducting but this seems like it would work.

ive heard things being said like make your exaust look like dryer vent incase that infarred truck comes by or for neighbors.

what if you cut a hole in your dryer ducting and inserted your grow room ducting? that way you dont have to vent into another part of your house (its blowing outside).

 

[NCDude]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Cool beans!

 

[GrowLEDHydro]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Great work SS. Maybe its me because I don't own the leds "yet." But although the leds look thicker I like the way the hid plants look better. Especially with the same light shining on them.They just seem more colorful to me and to tell you the truth they look frostier to me in these pics. Either way I'm convinced that an led is in my future for next summer. I'm still wondering if I could use one of the 380 glh lights on a mover in my 6 x 4 tent. I really would hate to have to buy 2. No, REAALLLYYY.
By the way after the flush with distilled water and a good dose of calmag and distilled water plus the trimming of all the real bad leaves, no new yellowing at lights on tonight. Actually the rest of the leaves greened up a bit. Do you think I should add more oc after the flush or wait and see what happens first? Thanks once again.

6x4 your definitely going to need at least two panels. Funny you bring up the light movers I have got a deal for all 420 magazine forum member's.

I have three 3ft adjustable speed light movers, if you order a Spectra LED 380w I will add in a free light mover for you.

Please specify that you would like the free light mover when you make your order in the order comment box.

Also, free shipping until the end of the month for all orders but you have to use this code.

Free Shipping discount code:

2cbf4deb8a
(domestic only)

If you live outside the US and would like to make a order please contact me for a discount code that will help you out on shipping at mike@growledhydro.com

beautiful job SS! i am really looking forward to the end results.

 

[dogsnova]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Now you tell me...lol.... No, I'm good I own three light movers myself..

Mike you the MAN................

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Does sound like fun.

In ordering my ballasts and cmh retro whites I have ended up with a stash of 5 400W HPS bulbs. It would be nice to know that someday thay might be good for something.

They might be good for something today. I haven't seen any conclusive evidence that CMH works better than HPS, vertical or otherwise.

I've seen some very nice CMH results, but no side-by-sides, so who knows, HPS may work better.

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

CANT WAIT TO SEE THE PICS. DONT WORRY ABOUT OTHERS SAYING THINGS ABOUT A CFL BULB HATTERS WILL BE HATTERS. WE KNOW WHATS UP AND HOW THINGS WERE FAIR.

I TALKED MY FRIEND INTO TOSSING OUT HIS HPS AND GETTING THREE 400W VERY CMH VERT LIGHT SETUPS FOR HIS ROOM. LOL GOING TO BE BAD ASS.

I'm not worried about it, I'd rather do what it takes to photograph the plants well and let the cards fall where they may. Thanks bro

On the vertical setup, again, I'm not sure that CMH will beat HPS, which is why I want to just compare both bulbs vertically on my next grow.

Very straightforward comparison with one variable, the bulb.

 

[Marley15]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

They might be good for something today. I haven't seen any conclusive evidence that CMH works better than HPS, vertical or otherwise.

I've seen some very nice CMH results, but no side-by-sides, so who knows, HPS may work better.

For my own selfish purposes, a CMH/HPS side by side would be amazing. Especially if you go with the 250w as you've talked about. Can't tell you how hard a decision it was to stick with the CMH when I flipped the switch. As of right now, 3 weeks 12/12, I am happy but who knows what coulda been..




Marley

 

[Two Tokes]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

They might be good for something today. I haven't seen any conclusive evidence that CMH works better than HPS, vertical or otherwise.

I've seen some very nice CMH results, but no side-by-sides, so who knows, HPS may work better.

That is true. I'm going to stick with the CMH for now simply because i like the color better and have no complaints with the grow results. I will be merrily rooting for your comparison.

Gator is threatening to do one too. But you will both probably be using better bulbs than the HTG or Phillips HPS bulbs that came with my orders.

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Here's all the different wattages.

You probably want to just check out the ED-17 and ED-18 bulbs.

I tried running a 150w CMH bulb with a digital ballast and it was no go, so the lower wattages also appear to need a magnetic ballast, although I'm not sure if HPS or MH.

The 250w and 400w run on magnetic HPS ballasts.


take care Go

oops, forgot to include the link:

Welcome To Advanced Technology Solutions ~ Lighting Divison

every bulb on that page is a CMH bulb.

 

[Two Tokes]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

oops, forgot to include the link:

Welcome To Advanced Technology Solutions ~ Lighting Divison

every bulb on that page is a CMH bulb.

It might be important to mention that CMH is a kind of light and not all CMH put out the same light spectrum.

 

[HorseBadoritz]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

On the vertical setup, again, I'm not sure that CMH will beat HPS, which is why I want to just compare both bulbs vertically on my next grow.

Very straightforward comparison with one variable, the bulb.

Ought to work well with all the apparatae you have in place. I'm already sold on CMH, but your validation would be nice

Do you think you'll stick with coco?

Thanks again for doing what you do... it's nice to follow a thread done in a workmanlike, but personal, manner

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Much Much better with the added light just for pics. really shows off how frosty those girls are! they are beyond frosty!!!! straight murder, fire, kills, dank, bomb or what ever you guys call it over their?lol.

I agree, it's a lot better taking pics with the same lighting. Makes comparing the groups much easier.

are the HPS girls "praying for mag"? or any idea why the leafs are sticking up like that? sorry if you posted this but how tall were these girls when you LST'ed them? how long did you leave them LST'ed before flowering and whats the total hight on the leds girls?

They're just happy, it's not a deficiency. If you look through all the updates, you'll see that leaf attitude in all the sets of HID pics. The LED plants have also been nice and perky, but haven't reached for the sky in that way.

I don't think it's an important distinction, just something produced by the different spectra and/or intensity.

One weird thing on this grow is that the HID plants, and to a lesser degree the LED plants, would sometimes turn a leaf or two upside down, as if the plant was confused about where the brightest source of light was coming from, but it was only one fan leaf or two, so it wasn't completely confused.

Maybe it's a PPP thing. I think it's cute .

Can you tell I like this strain? lol

from the looks of things you just pulled them down a good amount and left them right? I am guessing you didnt keep pulling down that main top, and thats why you still got a main cola? Do you think this helped with better light penetration instead of having all the tops the same height?

I gambled and lost.

I would rather have had a more even canopy by bending the main cola over a second time, but I was counting on the main colas being mostly done with their stretch and I misjudged it.

By the time I realized they weren't done stretching, the stems were too woody to bend, so I blew my chance to have a nice flat canopy.

In order to even out the intensity over all the bud sites, I positioned the main colas out towards the corners so I could drop the lights down lower.

That seemed to work very well to compensate for my mistake, but I think the yield would have been better if I had tied them down a second time.

Both sets of plants got the same treatment, so that's not an issue, and I got to learn something about PPP that I can use to improve my future grows, so it's cool, but yeah, I wanted a flatter canopy.

I don't think it helped with penetration. It mostly made me get creative with positioning the main colas so that the most light got delivered to all the bud sites.

oh well, got some nice fat main colas out of my mistake, so could be worse, lol

My hats off to you SS that is one hell of a grow you got their.

coming from you, that's an extremely nice compliment, thank you!

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Gorgeous pcitures as always SettingSun!!!
They both do look amazing...I would give the slight edge to the hid lights,but just by pics alone...lol
Concidering u used led they came out great,no one can say led lighting sucks for budding,here is the proof!
Anyways,great job on the fine looking herbs u got growing there!

If one group looks *significantly* better than the other in that last set of pics , I think it probably has more to do with the difficulty in taking pics that do each group justice.

IMO, of course.

I realize that some folks may have personal preferences that are different than mine, but I see these plants every day, and I think both tents are full of very nice ganja .

I'm glad you qualified your comments by saying "just by pics alone" because standing right in front of both tents, I can't pick a winner right now.

The LED buds look heavier to me, but the HID plants seem to have just about as much total bud mass, just distributed over more area.

We should get a better idea of the plant and bud structure when I take some harvest pics.

thanks bro!

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

They both look soooo good!
Either way it goes, looks like Setting Sun is the winner!

I wonder if the difference in lighting spectrum causes a different "need" of nutrients as a different level of chlorophyll absorption (or something) is going on and thus causing the HSP side to use more of a specific set of nutrients than the LED side... sorry thinking out loud again...

The HPS plants needed more frequent watering, so that seems to indicate that their metabolic rate was higher. Direct evaporation of water from the containers should not have been different enough to cause the difference in watering frequency.

Don't know what the significance of this might be, since both sets of plants developed and matured very well, but thought I'd mention it.

On an unrelated note... I'm glad I'm not the only one with occasional hairs and lint on my girls from time to time. I'd spend 5 minutes grooming them before I could take a picture.

I hate it when that happens, lol

 

[thinkerr]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

when you harvest are you are going to keep the two tents respective plants separate to compare dry weights?

 

[dogsnova]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Thinker you won't believe what he dose as far as keeping them separate.. lol... Stick around, his harvest report is one to behold...