Badrock's Bud Factory

[Marzbadrock]

I got everything broke down, shade leaf off. The difference in weight of untrimmed bud is miniscule. Between the LED table and the HPS table is only .09 lbs, the testing facility is picking samples up today just to do a thc, terpene comparison. Should have those results Wednesday.

 

[Marzbadrock]

So I've decided to stick with the HPS to finish my expansion. I really wanted to use the LED but they just aren't quite there for what I'm doing. The LED performed very well keeping up with HPS in the yield department but my terps and thc % were down across the board. My terps dropped .75% on both black cherry and the GG4. The thc% dropped close to 3% as well. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the LED and will be using them in my personal grow, I'd recommend them to anybody but for my dispensary....the small variance is all I need to stay with the ol trusty HPS.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Really interesting info Marz. Thanks.

 

[TriangleCheese]

Got all done with harvest. Just looking at the tables side by side I thought the LED was going to yield more. I'm not sure now. Here's total plant weights wet.

LED- 17.58 lbs
HPS- 20.35 lbs

I know there's variables involved and can't make a desicion until trimmed up, weighed n test results back.....wait and see!

Nice comparison there. I was just going to write that the fan leaves on the HPS should weight much more than the ones under LED's and I saw the first message on this page. Trimmed nug weight should be close but I would have expected more from the HPS tbh.

Wattage difference there is kinda big. 4kW vs 1.5kW most probably means the HPS side is producing more PPFD. THC and terp. difference should also caused by wattage difference.

What I want to say here that similar weights under these different sides means that LED's performed way more efficient than the HPS. Since the total PPFD produced by HPS was greater than the LED side, HPS side suffered from efficiency but produced enough buds with top shelf quality thanks to the high kW's. LED's here have better spectrum than HPS because they carry lots of energy from blue wavelengths while carrying plenty of red as well.

I checked sponsor's website and I believe you either have 3000K or 3500K on the LED side. Both of them have a more suitable spectrum compared to HPS to get higher quality end product. But LED's just suffered from low wattage vs. HPS. They matched the weight but not the quality.

Something I would like to add here is that I've done several tests with clones from the same mother and the ones under 4000K were much doper than the ones under 3500K. Even the main colas of the same plant(my BG41) turned out different under 3000K and 4000K lights. 4000K colas were significantly bigger and stickier.

There is plenty of of blue wavelength in 4000K and that greatly improves the quality of the end product. I've red some articles from Michigan State University Horticulture DPT. supporting that hypothesis. They made lots experiments on many different controlled groups. I can't disagree with them on anything yet.

I believe if you had like +2500 kW instead of 1500 kW on the LED side, the quality would have been no different from the HPS side, despite LED's being 3000K or 3500K and the yield would be much more with some CO2 supplement(around 1400-1500PPM). I also believe that 2.4 kW of 4000K LED's can match the quality of 4kW HPS while outperforming it in terms of yield as well.

I've done lots of grows to compare these and this is where I ended up. I hope these are helpful. Either way, you already got an amazing style of growing mate. There is always good stuff here

 

[Marzbadrock]

Its actually a comparison of 1500w led and 2000w hps. So if I went to 2500w led itd be less efficient than hps.

 

[Marzbadrock]

Nice comparison there. I was just going to write that the fan leaves on the HPS should weight much more than the ones under LED's and I saw the first message on this page. Trimmed nug weight should be close but I would have expected more from the HPS tbh.

Wattage difference there is kinda big. 4kW vs 1.5kW most probably means the HPS side is producing more PPFD. THC and terp. difference should also caused by wattage difference.

What I want to say here that similar weights under these different sides means that LED's performed way more efficient than the HPS. Since the total PPFD produced by HPS was greater than the LED side, HPS side suffered from efficiency but produced enough buds with top shelf quality thanks to the high kW's. LED's here have better spectrum than HPS because they carry lots of energy from blue wavelengths while carrying plenty of red as well.

I checked sponsor's website and I believe you either have 3000K or 3500K on the LED side. Both of them have a more suitable spectrum compared to HPS to get higher quality end product. But LED's just suffered from low wattage vs. HPS. They matched the weight but not the quality.

Something I would like to add here is that I've done several tests with clones from the same mother and the ones under 4000K were much doper than the ones under 3500K. Even the main colas of the same plant(my BG41) turned out different under 3000K and 4000K lights. 4000K colas were significantly bigger and stickier.

There is plenty of of blue wavelength in 4000K and that greatly improves the quality of the end product. I've red some articles from Michigan State University Horticulture DPT. supporting that hypothesis. They made lots experiments on many different controlled groups. I can't disagree with them on anything yet.

I believe if you had like +2500 kW instead of 1500 kW on the LED side, the quality would have been no different from the HPS side, despite LED's being 3000K or 3500K and the yield would be much more with some CO2 supplement(around 1400-1500PPM). I also believe that 2.4 kW of 4000K LED's can match the quality of 4kW HPS while outperforming it in terms of yield as well.

I've done lots of grows to compare these and this is where I ended up. I hope these are helpful. Either way, you already got an amazing style of growing mate. There is always good stuff here

I think you were thinking I was tallying 2 tables under the 4 hps vs. 1 table of LED. 1 table and 2 of the hps were not in this experiment. The 3rd table in question had montana kush and lime berry mega.

 

[TriangleCheese]

I think you were thinking I was tallying 2 tables under the 4 hps vs. 1 table of LED. 1 table and 2 of the hps were not in this experiment. The 3rd table in question had montana kush and lime berry mega.

Yeah that's why I was expecting more from HPS

Anyways, I can still say that 4000K would make a huge difference in terms of quality. In my experience, perfect recipe for most bio mass is %15 blue and %85 red but I feel that 4000K is around the sweet spot.

 

[Marzbadrock]

Yeah that's why I was expecting more from HPS

Anyways, I can still say that 4000K would make a huge difference in terms of quality. In my experience, perfect recipe for most bio mass is %15 blue and %85 red but I feel that 4000K is around the sweet spot.

I thought I'd see better quality from the LED side. Now that I've got some cure on this harvest I really notice the difference in smell when I pop open a bucket. The LED does have higher output on blue, purple and red but hps has higher output in the yellow n orange, maybe thats the difference. I will continue using the LED in my personal grow for testing new strains, there is absolutely nothing n g wrong with them. For my dispensary though, I have the highest quality herb in my part of the country. Im sold out n had to close shop, have people driving from 160 miles away on a weekly basis. Im not trying to toot my own horn but quality is of highest importance to me. I believe its going to be the only way to survive once big guys move in. I do have a whole bunch of 4000k qb. Might have to fire a 4*4 up n try it out but as far as experimenting in the commercial grow im done for now, atleast until there's something that blows HPS out of the water.

 

[Dankman_420]

Nice comparison. I currently have a 4'x8' HPS tent in bloom and a 4'x8' LED tent both with my clones from the previous run. It's kinda a out of space situation for me atm.
I'm a firm believer in HPS if equipped with the right bulbs.
Also I've had great success with my LEDs. Kinda like the bulbs, the LEDs are not all equal, imo. Some chips are better than others, same thing with drivers.
If monthly power bill isn't a worry or the expenses of new hortalux bulbs I'd never leave HPS lights. Tried and true

 

[TriangleCheese]

I thought I'd see better quality from the LED side. Now that I've got some cure on this harvest I really notice the difference in smell when I pop open a bucket. The LED does have higher output on blue, purple and red but hps has higher output in the yellow n orange, maybe thats the difference. I will continue using the LED in my personal grow for testing new strains, there is absolutely nothing n g wrong with them. For my dispensary though, I have the highest quality herb in my part of the country. Im sold out n had to close shop, have people driving from 160 miles away on a weekly basis. Im not trying to toot my own horn but quality is of highest importance to me. I believe its going to be the only way to survive once big guys move in. I do have a whole bunch of 4000k qb. Might have to fire a 4*4 up n try it out but as far as experimenting in the commercial grow im done for now, atleast until there's something that blows HPS out of the water.

I feel you on that Marz. I've been trying to convince a commercial grower friend here to switch from HPS to LED's. He tried some "OK" LED's and eventually lost his faith in that technology. Big grow operations require stability and that is perfectly understandable. I was convinced to use LED's after seeing some growers here getting some amazing results. But I had nothing much to lose unlike your case.

After I guided my friend what to buy (4000K+660nm) his nugs became pretty dense and dank. He is telling me that he was using 4.2 kW of HPS and wasn't happy with the output. Now he is using around 3.5 kW of the mentioned LED's in his small room and he told me that yield is at least %20 more with smaller and faster plants. I am building custom modules for friends and I am using Osram components. Nothing unreachable and special here, just using the proper stuff.

We don't have the opportunity to lab test our nugs but I am investigating how much such a system would cost. When I got good genetics with these LED's, things always go top shelf. When I got "OK" genetics, yields usually go crazy but nugs don't satisfy much and I practically end up gifting these batches to loved ones. I always take quality over quantity.

My friend have done two grows with these LED's and soon he will harvest his main room for the first time with the new setup and I am feeling very curious about the yield. His quality has been stable and amazing for the last 8 months. I am one of his nug testers and I know all the nugs coming from his garden and I must say that all of his latest grows with these LED's are fire. Strains he grew with these LED's were Amnesia, Pink Kush, Virtue Space Ghost OG, Liberty Haze and some of his own breeds. I wish I could share some material coming out of his garden but I think he wouldn't let me do that

I have a very small grow space in my apartment and I need to keep things stealthy. Until I swapped to quantum boards, I was always running out of nugs before the next batch gets harvested. Now I got shitload of weed and I am making all kinds of extracts. Thanks to 420Mag. LED's changed my grow life and I hope you can also get huge benefits from them one day.

PS: I wish I could smoke some of your material man. Always dank stuff here.

 

[Marzbadrock]

I have got harvest completed 100%. Trimmed, cure started and at the proper RH. Was pretty surprised with my final weight, the LED side give me 5 ounces more total than hps. I have decide I will be ordering more of the LED from budget. I really do love these lights and I believe that if I combine both hps and led I will get my yield and % up across the board.
I appreciate the few that have followed along with my expirement and the info shared with me. I will keep updating periodically with current grow. Hope everyone is being safe, staying healthy n growing beautiful stank ass plants!

 

[TriangleCheese]

I have got harvest completed 100%. Trimmed, cure started and at the proper RH. Was pretty surprised with my final weight, the LED side give me 5 ounces more total than hps. I have decide I will be ordering more of the LED from budget. I really do love these lights and I believe that if I combine both hps and led I will get my yield and % up across the board.
I appreciate the few that have followed along with my expirement and the info shared with me. I will keep updating periodically with current grow. Hope everyone is being safe, staying healthy n growing beautiful stank ass plants!

Sounds like a plan Marz. Congratz on the harvest

 

[StoneOtter]

Hi Mars, nice look into lights! Thanks! Have you considered the spectrum companies like Nextlight are using? Nextlight claims to have used HPS as a guide when designing their line.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Hey Marz. Hit a button a couple weeks ago that unsubbed me from everything on my subscription list, which was about a zillion threads.

I read you’re having cloning troubles still/again. So I guess the Z7 didn’t solve the issue for you. Thats too bad.

 

[Marzbadrock]

Hey Marz. Hit a button a couple weeks ago that unsubbed me from everything on my subscription list, which was about a zillion threads.

I read you’re having cloning troubles still/again. So I guess the Z7 didn’t solve the issue for you. Thats too bad.

No I think I had a temporary problem with rot. I started the z7 and I'm having my usual 100% success in 2 weeks again in my personal grow. In the big grow though....got rid of the rot but they will not root. Out of 30 clones I got 4 to root in 6 weeks. I lost my montana kush and huckleberry diesel to. Devastated here. Started questioning the lighting

 

[Weaselcracker]

It’s always been my impression that the cuttings don’t really care or need much light. I just root them under a little 13w CFL. For that matter the CFL is barely shining on them -it’s kind of off to one side. i figure they’re like sprouts- they’re not really even using light yet but just need one to know it’s daytime and which way is up.

 

[Marzbadrock]

It’s always been my impression that the cuttings don’t really care or need much light. I just root them under a little 13w CFL. For that matter the CFL is barely shining on them -it’s kind of off to one side. i figure they’re like sprouts- they’re not really even using light yet but just need one to know it’s daytime and which way is up.

Yeah sorry I meant my veg lighting. I use a 20w fluorescent for cuttings.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Like something about the veg light spectrum might be slowing their ability to root under the cfl?
Damn you must be pulling your hair out. I know I went through that and it was like a slow motion slide into the abyss. The Z7 solved my issues though.

 

[Marzbadrock]

Like something about the veg light spectrum might be slowing their ability to root under the cfl?
Damn you must be pulling your hair out. I know I went through that and it was like a slow motion slide into the abyss. The Z7 solved my issues though.

I have narrowed it down to 3 things.

Either the 4k LED is to intense and making my stems turn hard and unable to root.

Or the LED is missing a certain spectrum that other lights have. Unlikely though since the info available online shows the LED are equal or greater in most spectrums.

Or I need to raise my temp even more. Currently run mid to high 70s. Maybe bump up to 82°.

Nunyabiz recommended backing the lights off a bit. I will try backing them off a bit, raising temperature some and hope my humidity doesn't sky rocket.

 

[Weaselcracker]

How long do your cuttings survive in the cloner? I mean - if they refuse to root then obviously something is going to kill them eventually. But they should be able to go a month, give or take, without rotting. At least three weeks quite easily anyway.