COorganics - All Natural - No-Till With ACT's - Winter Attic Grow

[COorganics]

You want silica, CO? There's better and cheaper way Get a bunch of horsetail and let it dissolve in water. You might also use bamboo compost/ash/mulch as I do.

I'm in. I'm going to start using comfrey, horsetail, stinging nettles. I'm looking up seeds right now.

 

[COorganics]

Here's my view on using ACT in containers, for what it's worth. If you have a healthy organic soil it supports an ideal population of microbiological life so long as the pH is in range and there is food for them to eat. It is a little different in a field or garden bed in soil that is not as carefully crafted as what we can do in containers - and most of us are growing in containers.

When you brew an ACT you are primarily multiplying microbes to add to the container. If the soil is good, then there is already the correct population and ratio of organisms in the dirt/container for it's given environmental conditions. Making a solution of a bazillion more and dumping them in is not such a good thing in a container. It throws off the balance that is established in the soil and disrupts the existing harmony. A grower is better off feeding the existing population so it thrives than overpopulating the medium by artificially introducing a population of unknown ratios into the mix.

Just my two cents. Bubble away if you want.

PeeJay, serious question.

How do you figure a healthy population of microbes gets in the soil? They are laying dormant in one or more of your amendments? Water wakes them up???

I don't understand your point of view. Was going to ask you same last night, but had a few beers and didn't feel like posting.

 

[PeeJay]

At the root of the issue, CO, is a basic understanding of mycrobial populations and their exponential growth rates. Given the right conditions they explode in numbers very quickly before reaching an ideal population for the given environment. Compost, for example, is teaming with microbes. When we mix a small amount of compost into a soil medium with organic matter in it, those microbes multiply and feed on the organic matter in the soil. The soil will support a certain number of micoroorganisms. You don't have to add more, the ones that are there will double in number over and over again in a short amount of time - an exponential growth rate. One becomes 2, 2 become 4, 4 become 8 etc. In a very short time there are millions and millions of them.

Reproductive rates vary by each individual type of organism, from a matter of minutes to a matter of hours. In either event, they will plateau at a certain level influenced by getting eaten by others, how quickly they die off after being born, etc.

Cooking a soil before using it is sort of like making yogurt. You take milk and add a small number of bacteria. The milk is left at a temperature where the bacteria are happy growing. They eat milk and multiply like crazy. Pretty soon there are so many of the bacteria in the milk that the milk is no longer milk, it is what we call yogurt. The bacteria will continue to live in the yogurt - it has live bacteria in it, but once it reaches a peak population it will maintain a relatively stable number of bacteria until such time at they run out of milk sugar to eat, or they drown in their own metabolic waste. You can add more of the starter bacteria (culture) if you want, but the population the of living bacteria will not change appreciably.

Some microbes are motile- they can move. Others have no way to move by their own power and are constantly being redistributed by the action of water moving through the soil. A basic microbiology textbook can shed a lot more light on this subject in much greater detail than I can typing on a forum on the fly, but that is the gist of it.

If you are interested in learning more about microbiology and have itunes, you can watch all the lectures from a college microbiology course for free online - just search the itunes store for "microbiology itunes u"

 

[PeeJay]

I'm going to add that where I sit generally when I post is at my desk. On the shelf above the desk is a stack of books that I reference frequently for my work. Among them is a microbiology text over 900 pages long, a chemistry book well over a thousand pages, a biochemistry book that is longer still and a dozen or so related volumes. I have a decent understanding of this stuff.

 

[Conradino23]

I'm in. I'm going to start using comfrey, horsetail, stinging nettles. I'm looking up seeds right now.

Just get them around, they are pretty common everywhere. Aaa, if ya want to add power to yr mix, browse word @hyperaccumulator@.

 

[labexperiment]

Yep. Nitrogen cycling takes place. An explosion of microbiology sequesters available nitrogen inside the microbes until they die leading to short term nitrogen deficiency in the plant, as I understand it. In a compost pile plants aren't growing, so we don't give a rat's ass about a wildly fluctuating nitrogen cycle.

So would adding molasses to his cooking compost help to speed up the process?

 

[COorganics]

Hi PeeJay,
Thanks for the response. I personally don't feel like I have more than a very limited understanding of microbiology and what little I have relates only to soil. I want to spend a lot of time formulating a reply but I don't have very much time. I do understand how microbes can multiply exponentially given favorable conditions. I guess my question was simply

How do you figure a healthy population of microbes gets in the soil? They are laying dormant in one or more of your amendments? Water wakes them up???

I could see good homemade compost and fresh vermicompost as being great sources of microlife for a soil mix. Are they all inclusive? I sure don't know. I really wish I had more time to research prior to posting. I'm swamped today though. I think to say ACT's aren't necessary in a container is a bold statement to say the least. In the contrary, my personal opinion, based on research, is that ACT's are a dynamic part of a balanced approach.

PeeJay I want to make clear that I am not trying to challenge you or anything remotely close to that. I consider you one of my growing buddies and I read everything you post, I'm simply trying to get answers to the questions I have. That's all.

We should all question everything.

 

[PeeJay]

PeeJay, serious question.

How do you figure a healthy population of microbes gets in the soil? They are laying dormant in one or more of your amendments? Water wakes them up???

Oh, I missed the thrust of your question a little Corgie. Soil microbes are everywere in soil - even really bad soil. There are some exceptions. Very salty soils - think salt flats - don't have many. After a very hot wildfire burns through an area it can sterilize the soil, something that makes revegetating to prevent flooding problematic. Other than that they are ubiquitious.

Back when we were doing soil cultures in micro lab we were all instructed to bring in some dirt. We were working in groups of two and each group was asked to bring dirt from different places - a garden bed, under a tree, shady area, sunny area, etc.

Each group weighed out a gram of soil and put it in a test tube with 10ml of water, then shook the test tube. Next we took 1 ml of that solution and added it to a second test tube and diluted it with 10 ml of water and shook it up. We repeated that dilution process three more times. That is the serial dilution method I mentioned to Slo. After the final dilution we placed a drop of water onto a slide an examined it under the microscope. There was a startling array of bacteria and protazoa in even the poorest soil samples. Soil from under a tree or in a garden bed obviously showed higher counts, but there were lots everywhere.

The next thing we did was to take some of the final dilution and inoculate different culture mediums that exclude certain sub-sets of microbial life via their composition. We incubated those cultures and were able to examine and identify specific types by using various staining techniques. It was pretty cool. We worked on this project for three or four weeks in lab - on and off.

Not every type of microbe was in every soil and the best soils (under a tree, from a garden bed) showed the greatest diversity. Neither one, I'm sure, had all kinds of possible mico-life growing in it. It probably isn't possible to find a soil with everything in it. Some microbes are actually pathogens you wouldn't want in your soil...

In my mix the initial population comes from the fractions of FFOF and the worm castings in the mix that make up about 30% of overall volume. Reg is doing a peat and yum based mix and he used some free composed mulch to get the mix going. In both cases the Yum provides a source of food the micro-herd loves. As the soil "cooks" in bins it is stirred occasionally to redistribute the populations.

Any good soil or composed material will work as an inoculant for a custom soil mix, or for brewing an ACT - some better than others. The soil microbes are in there and alive unless the material has been sterilized.

Lots of growers use ACT and many of them grow fantastic weed. Shot uses them. So do CA and many others. I've never seen anyone do serious damage to plants with ACT, but like most things I don't view it as a miracle process that will dramatically increase the value of the crop. In my own grows the biggest limiting factor is the atmospheric environment and not the medium. I've got all the gear to brew, have brewed in the past, and decided it was not worth the muss and fuss. Other's will disagree. My two cents is only worth about two cents. I'm certainly not offended by anyone who rejects it. If I read something that changes my mind, I'll fire up the bubbler post-haste.

Your last harvest of Critical was beautiful, Corgi, and I'm sure that anyone who smoked it was mighty impressed.

 

[COorganics]

So would adding molasses to his cooking compost help to speed up the process?

Hey lab,
I like to put leftover act's (which have molasses in them)into my worm bin, or cooking soil mix, or compost heap if I have one going. I always brew more than I use on the cannabis and spread it around. I like to think my worm castings must be really good. I am trying to picture adding just molasses to a compost heap, or a bin full of soil. I am imagining a grumbling old man trying to stir the thick, sticky stuff to get it mixed evenly into the compost. Humorous thoughts this morning. Obviously it would be much easier to dilute the molasses in water, then apply to compost heap. I'm still chuckling here...

In my own garden, I have only one use for molasses, as stated earlier, I'm only using molasses in small amounts as a food source for microbes in an ACT. I am very wary of using ANY one thing too heavily in my soil, hence the balanced approach in the dirt. So far so good.

I am lacking the science to properly answer the question here. My gut says adding straight molasses isn't a very practical or wise idea, however adding an ACT would speed up the composting process. Maybe someone else wants to chime in.

 

[closetorganic]

I have been enjoying this conversation here and wish I had some good knowledge to add. I agree with CO that adding the ACT would speed up the composting process better. I thought I read from DocBud once that molasses makes the microbes and stuff get lazy by they should be eating the minerals and other matter instead. Maybe adding some fish emulsion of extra N of some kind to help to help heat it up to cook faster.
COorganics I have a homemade worm bin going on just less than a year now from a small handful of composting worms from my daughters preschool class we asked for. they are much smaller than your picture I seen.I was wondering how you came about your worms?
Mine have totally multiplied enough where I would like to make another bin with a few modifications for the better now. Worm Porn Pics still on?.I guess we would have to have something visible like some mj leaves to keep it on topic tho
I hope your attic temps are dropping like needed and cant wait to see your soil mix growing

 

[COorganics]

Worm porn? Please do,
That's the idea. My "farm" is very humble, I threw it out there.
If worm farm pics don't apply to organic MJ growing, well that's just ridiculous


I know bud grant has worms, I'm trying to get him to post pics here as well. Slower than ... molasses. Now that's funny ha ya.

 

[COorganics]

Worms.
I can help here .

You want red wiggler worms. I bought mine from a lady off Craig's list. In Denver.
I had my Mom meet her and she wanted to meet in a fast food restaurant parking lot. Much like a drug deal, but red wiggler worms.

Here's a link to an online worm source I've heard was reputable.

Red Worm Composting


The best first step to growing organically, for real, is setting up a worm bin. IMHO

 

[Radogast]

One Cannabis leaf turns a photo category from off-topic to Cannabis Plants
And who didn't like seeing a random cannabis leaf.

 

[B A R]

The MODs are tolerant. If a pic is something that's directly related to growing it's acceptable; Probably more so than a non-grow related pic with a bud or leaf thrown in.

 

[SoilGirl]

Seeing as we're talking clones here, has anyone cloned a skinny secondary shoot & did it grow into a big strong plant? I've only ever taken clones off the end of thick branches so I thought I'd ask if it worked for anyone reading this

I'm catching up here but oh yeah definitely; actually my very first successful clone was this tiny tiny low growth that I thought was doomed.
here's the not great looking clone:

Here's some other larger clones I took with it, they all look pretty sad.

Here's what they turned into surprisingly enough:

They aren't the biggest plants, they were put out late summer anyways, but they grew vigorously and are healthy.

 

[COorganics]

Cool to see what they have become soilgirl! Big ladies! Rockin out.

Edit: your pics always look smokey. I like to imagine you have a really nice camera and it captures the clouds of ganja smoke in your yard. Out of view of the camera are a bunch of Rastas, puffin hard 24/7.

 

[SoilGirl]

Cool to see what they have become soilgirl! Big ladies! Rockin out.

Edit: your pics always look smokey. I like to imagine you have a really nice camera and it captures the clouds of ganja smoke in your yard. Out of view of the camera are a bunch of Rastas, puffin hard 24/7.

LOL! You totally figured it out. Once a year we pop by kingston and recruit a bunch of Rastafarians just to toke up my pics.
I really need to get a digital camera and put my phone to retirement hahaha....... >.< >.<

 

[closetorganic]

This is my worm bin made from 2 -10 gallon/ 38L bins. I have a weed barrier liner because I drilled too big of holes in the bottom but they still make it out and I strain them out when empting the liquid. I have some lids in the bottom bin to stop from sealing to tight and to leave room for air and liquid.To help with their reproduction I dried and powdered egg shells and sprinkled that in. They are fed kitchen peelings and leaves ,stems and roots cut up from my little personal grow in a newspaper bedding.

 

[COorganics]

Very cool. Worms=nice produce.
Thank you for sharing closetO

 

[closetorganic]

Very cool. Worms=nice produce.
Thank you for sharing closetO

Your welcome COorganic That was the plan to harvest my own worm castings to save some money and the kids enjoy it tearing the bedding and adding the food too. I have been waiting to collect alot of it so I havent tried them yet.It feels like about 5 pounds of castings maybe now.I do like your peat bedding idea better , probably having more nutrient value.I should set one up for my grow only with peat bedding and only add mj plant material for additional food.