Decoding The Holy Grail: Terpene & Cannabinoid Retention: Decarb to Extraction

[LameCalf]

Greetings and Happy New Year!

I was going to join here at some point just so I could let Sue know what a positively infectious person she is...a smart,unique and amazing woman! , however I might be of minor assistance regarding the emulsion apparatus, let's call it.

Let me preface the rest of this by pointing out I am not an infusion maker, yet.

The 1/8'' shaft diameter is making this difficult...

No, you are making this difficult (totally kidding)

I have a tool, it is a rotary tool just like a dremel but fattened up where it should be;

Rotozip SS355-10
5.5Amp motor, 30,000 RPM all day long (I've cut steel with it for HOURS and it never got beyond warm)
It has servicable motor brushes, so it will outlive many of us.
And the only reason I'm telling you that is because it has this; 1/4" collet.

Sirs Canyon & Kickinitup, i know that I am a complete Canadian stranger as of right now. That will not stop me from telling you two gentlemen that I am blown away at the lengths that you two have gone to get your own answers regarding this mystery.
Sh*t doesn't impress me very often, but ...


Many Blessings & One Love to All from Canada

 

[Oldbear]

Hi again Grailers. Just an fyi that I'm going to be testing out a new (for me anyway) extraction method.

I'm going to test drive a scheme where I slowly dribble hot olive oil through crumbled and dried cannabis repeatedly. Hot filtered cannabis extraction or some such thing. I also want to run these extractions through product that has not been chopped up. The historical only trichs and terps and minimal plant matter extraction objective.

I need a high tech device to keep the oil hot, pump it uphill into a strainer filled with dried cannabis a drain it back in to the reservoir.

So tomorrow, if the car will start, I'm off to buy an old fashioned campfire percolating coffee pot. Details in the Study Hall thread.

 

[Oldbear]

Canyon I'm finding it 'happy stoner hilarious' that your set up uses an old fashioned cast iron skillet on the modern induction cooktop.

 

[Canyon]

Forgive the absence; I have been doing fun things like changing toilets.

I have tried several times over the last few days to do the math on the wet leaves and keep coming up with around 15% total cannabinoids by oven dried weight. That has to be too high. Though 1.7 grams (it is heavy crushed) produced three long bags of decent vape in a Volcano.

We really need lab tests with buds to find out what kind of decarb we are getting with different times and temperatures. The 'while you weight' lab test should be all we need to check for decarb.

The CBD plant will come down late this week. With luck, I can run some dry leaves at low temperature before testing buds to get an idea if it is worth testing with buds run that way.

Farm Girl, I finally got around to the CO2 extraction link you left. I had no idea that such low pressure would liquefy dry ice. I have been interested in how the process worked. The separator is the mystery part. What is going on in there?

Oldbear, luck with the extraction. I have thought for a while that there may be no need to break up the material for a good oil extraction.

The pitcher is older than the skillet and comes with a story. It is a US Army Officers Mess Hall pitcher. For about a year and a half I worked for a Transportation Battalion scrounge in Germany. One day he left the base in a 5 quarter ton tactical vehicle with six bottles of cherry vodka. When he came back he was driving a new olive drab half ton Government Chevy pickup with about 300 of those pitchers. The odd thing was that he got the truck from some German contractors who did maintenance for motor pools. Most of the pitchers were traded for whatever. About 20 were engraved and passed out for safe driving awards. And, that one made it back to the States 48 years ago. The truck cost a bottle a month but they serviced it for that.

Was it you that worked up the interactive dosage chart? If it was would you post it here?
I never know

 

[greatwolf]

Hello Grailers. Im wondering if anyone is aware of any information available regarding the quality of trichomes on different parts of a plant?

I keep thinking that people are not extracting significant volumes of quality medicine by ignoring sugar leaves and bottom buds.

I keep wondering too about the harvest. I dont know of any plant / tree that produces fruit where it is all ripe at the same time. It seems in my strange brain that harvesting in layers would boost production. Take the top 25 - 30% where the biggest colas should be, drop the light and let that layer get better light for x days. Then repeat.

Finally what would remain is a plant with lots of bottom branches and a few leaves that can be reveged. Its already fimed/topped/supercropped. It will grow very bushy.

I'm still catching up on this thread. It's funny you should ask this question. I just commented on a post in Auto Growers Unite how I will be harvesting my plants piecemeal as they ripen and lowering the light. This is what we did 30 years ago.

The idea of harvesting entire plants at once is wasteful, except for commercial growers, which is where it came from. For smaller growers, with only a few plants, what you describe, and what we used to do, maximized the yield and thc content.

Cheers from the darkside

 

[Oldbear]

Canyon that's a great story.

Here is the spreadsheet. I use it to calculate what is in a batch of oil (mg/ml) and also calculates oil blends.

Infused Oil Calculator

 

[SweetSue]

Greetings and Happy New Year!

I was going to join here at some point just so I could let Sue know what a positively infectious person she is...a smart,unique and amazing woman! , however I might be of minor assistance regarding the emulsion apparatus, let's call it.

Let me preface the rest of this by pointing out I am not an infusion maker, yet.



No, you are making this difficult (totally kidding)

I have a tool, it is a rotary tool just like a dremel but fattened up where it should be;

Rotozip SS355-10
5.5Amp motor, 30,000 RPM all day long (I've cut steel with it for HOURS and it never got beyond warm)
It has servicable motor brushes, so it will outlive many of us.
And the only reason I'm telling you that is because it has this; 1/4" collet.

Sirs Canyon & Kickinitup, i know that I am a complete Canadian stranger as of right now. That will not stop me from telling you two gentlemen that I am blown away at the lengths that you two have gone to get your own answers regarding this mystery.
Sh*t doesn't impress me very often, but ...


Many Blessings & One Love to All from Canada

I opened this room for Kickin and Canyon with no real intent to be here daily, which is uncharacteristic of my threads, but I still drop in on occassion to see what the brilliant minds are doing over here. Otherwise I'd have missed that sweet compliment you left for me LameCalf. Thank you. My typical response is still the truth: I am but a reflection of the loving membership that surrounds me at every turn.

Thank you as well for the input. I'm sure they'll make good use of it. They impress the hell out of me too.

from the shadows.

Canyon, toilets? Life's never dull, is it? I wanted to stop and send my best to that beautiful bride of yours. I'm hoping you have a good topical on hand for her???? If not, PM me.

 

[Hhaz]

Hey guys I'm new here. Rather than read through 100 pages was there a definitive answer in terms of the best method of decarb?

 

[InTheShed]

Hey guys I’m new here. Rather than read through 100 pages was there a definitive answer in terms of the best method of decarb?

LOL! If there was, SweetSue would have posted it on page 1. Much of it depends on what you are doing with your cannabis: oil, tincture, edibles... The question posed by this thread has not be answered. But no one despairs, as King Arthur never found the Holy Grail either .

If you can give us some information as to what the end use is you will get some guidance though.

 

[Canyon]

Thanks, Shed.
Welcome to 420 Hhaz.

 

[Hhaz]

LOL! If there was, SweetSue would have posted it on page 1. Much of it depends on what you are doing with your cannabis: oil, tincture, edibles... The question posed by this thread has not be answered. But no one despairs, as King Arthur never found the Holy Grail either .

If you can give us some information as to what the end use is you will get some guidance though.

Tinctures and edibles mostly. They've always worked whenever I've done them even with trim but always looking to improve if I can.

Thanks for the reply though.

 

[Oldbear]

Hey guys I’m new here. Rather than read through 100 pages was there a definitive answer in terms of the best method of decarb?

For decarb, I think most agree that doing it in a closed container is preferable to in an open oven. The belief is that more cannabinoids and terpenes are saved.

Times and temps - there will always be multiple choices that are all good. People are using times and temps to manipulate the characteristics of the final product and how it effects them. With more and more evidence of the healing properties of the thc and cbd acids, it could become a popular choice to decarb very little if at all.

Raw cannabis is very good for people.

The 'best extraction method' has the same answer - many effective methods are available. People are trying to achieve different things and create different products.

People here have done some great work working through all this. Myself I'm very pleased with the results achieved. Some assumptions were confirmed, and new things learned.

The biggest obstacle is testing. Many questions could be answered if there was no limit on the lab testing that could be done.

In the Shed is correct - if you could summarize what you are wanting to do, you could get some opinions on best practices for that.

so to 420 have fun

 

[Bucudinkydow]

I've found a lab test on another site comparing a couple of decarb times in a sealed container but some inconsistencies lead me to question the usefulness of the results.

1 hr @ 250f showed only a 61% conversion rate. I hold this in suspect because total thc fell from +13.1% pre-decarb to 8.7% after with no accountability for the loss. Tests at 250f for 45 min shows an almost 99% conversion rate BUT the total thc INCREASED by over 17% after decarb.

These discrepancies leave me still scratching my ass and talking to myself wondering where is the sweet spot.

Another problem I have with this test is the methodology. He sealed his material in a mason jar and placed it in a preheated oven. Using an oven thermometer inside a sealed jar and placing it in a preheated oven I found it takes 10 min to reach 200f and a full 20 min to reach the preset 250f. So this would have only netted him 25 min at a stable 250f which I doubt is suitable for a proper decarb.

By placing the open jar in the oven until it reaches the preset temp and then quickly putting a thermometer in the preheated jar and sealing it, it only takes 7 min to reach the preset 250f. I can't offer substantiating lab tests but I'm getting acceptable results using 250f for 45 min using this method.

 

[Kicknitup1]

"Sirs Canyon & Kickinitup, i know that I am a complete Canadian stranger as of right now. That will not stop me from telling you two gentlemen that I am blown away at the lengths that you two have gone to get your own answers regarding this mystery.
Sh*t doesn't impress me very often, but ..."

Well thank you so much! We had a lot of help here. I'm still at it...in theory mode for a while. I have heard of the Rotozip. I obviously did not do my homework on the Dremel's competitor. Now that opens some doors! You are a stranger no longer my new Canadian friend!

 

[Canyon]

For decarb, I think most agree that doing it in a closed container is preferable to in an open oven. The belief is that more cannabinoids and terpenes are saved.

Times and temps - there will always be multiple choices that are all good. People are using times and temps to manipulate the characteristics of the final product and how it effects them. With more and more evidence of the healing properties of the thc and cbd acids, it could become a popular choice to decarb very little if at all.

Raw cannabis is very good for people.

The 'best extraction method' has the same answer - many effective methods are available. People are trying to achieve different things and create different products.

People here have done some great work working through all this. Myself I'm very pleased with the results achieved. Some assumptions were confirmed, and new things learned.

The biggest obstacle is testing. Many questions could be answered if there was no limit on the lab testing that could be done.

In the Shed is correct - if you could summarize what you are wanting to do, you could get some opinions on best practices for that.

so to 420 have fun

Thanks Oldbear,
My wife has been taking small doses of CBD chocolate or sublingual's for several years now for pain, some physical problems and opiate withdrawal. She has a low tolerance for THC. Ten grams about once a month is about all she is interested in. The chocolate bars are expensive, about 4 dollars per 10g dose. CBD isolate in one gram quantities is about $50 walk in price. I have found it as low as 30 on the net. Quantities of 10g are as low as $25. There is a brick and mortar shop in Albuquerque that has it for 40 that I plan to stop by next trip. Mixing a gram with 100ml of oil would make a little over 100 capsules.


Mixing a gram of isolate, a gram of high CBD extract not decarbed and another gram of it decarbed or a 50/50 strain is what I am going to make for my wife. Even at $50 a gram and $20 for the alcohol, that's well under a dollar per cap counting tax.


The CBD plant came down today. It will be dry around Saturday. I will do a small dry ice and Ever Clear extraction and evaporate the alcohol off at room temperature, maybe keep it on top of the hot water heater, then do another run after decarbing it.


This coming Thursday I am planning an Albuquerque trip armed with some samples of Thunderstruck, the CBD strain.


FYI, the local dispensary had a sale the Saturday before Christmas, shatter was $40 a gram and they picked up the tax. Who would have thought? I bought 4 grams.


I never know
​

 

[Kicknitup1]

Canyon;

Do you freeze your material before the dry ice process?

 

[Canyon]

Canyon;

Do you freeze your material before the dry ice process?

Yes, I like to break up the buds some, then dry it a little extra somewhere warm, most of the time it is a low temp oven. Then I freeze everything.

If I can find dry ice, I plan to freeze everything and then put it all in a cooler with dry ice. I am still thinking about wash times.

This morning I started thinking that a plant propagation mat would work for the drying and the evaporating process without the worry of temperature spikes.

Full disclosure: The dry ice idea to further lower the temperature of the ethyl is not mine. It is something I saw on this site. I usually use dry ice when I do keif extractions though.

 

[Blazinjones]

Yes, I like to break up the buds some, then dry it a little extra somewhere warm, most of the time it is a low temp oven. Then I freeze everything.

If I can find dry ice, I plan to freeze everything and then put it all in a cooler with dry ice. I am still thinking about wash times.

This morning I started thinking that a plant propagation mat would work for the drying and the evaporating process without the worry of temperature spikes.

Full disclosure: The dry ice idea to further lower the temperature of the ethyl is not mine. It is something I saw on this site. I usually use dry ice when I do keif extractions though.

Great idea with the dry ice where do u get it from ? The dry ice i mean?

 

[Canyon]

Great idea with the dry ice where do u get it from ? The dry ice i mean?

In the Western States, there is at least one grocery store that carries it in most towns. It is mostly for hunting, fishing and camping, although Albertsons carries it in Oceanside Ca.

I found a gram of CBD with Granddaddy Purp terpenes locally. I am going to start a 50ml batch with half a gram today.

 

[CCOiler]

Full disclosure: The dry ice idea to further lower the temperature of the ethyl is not mine. It is something I saw on this site. I usually use dry ice when I do keif extractions though.

QUESTION: How many grams of keif extractions equals 1 gram of CCO?

FOE EXAMPLE: How much keif extractions would I use in Olive oil to match the same amount of 1 gram of CCO? Does the keif extractions melt into the Olive oil the same way that CCO does?

keif extractions will be the best way to keep the Trichomes until more BioBombs are needed.

Thoughts please

Thank you to all of the oilers on this site for all that you do for so many.