First Time Grower: Help Making Sure Everything Makes Sense! Detailed

[Emilya Green]

Lookin great!

 

[parrajara]

Lookin great!

Thank you Emilya! I am reading @Buds Buddy great growth journal, and he mentioned an information you provided, about topping.

I've circled the nodes in my plant. Given the bit of stressed it faced, would it be a bad idea to top it to the 3rd node? If it's not a bad idea, would it be better to let the 5th node develop a bit more? Thank you for your time

 

[Emilya Green]

I would give it just a bit more, considering that one of those lower leaves is not up to full speed... let it get a little bigger before making it rely on what is left

 

[parrajara]

Cannabitch starting to grow the leaves near the nodes, starting to get bushy. Overall looking healthy, but I am noticing some weird spots on some leaves. Ive circled the spots. They are minimal right now, but I'm not trying to be reactive, I'm trying to be proactive. I'm staring at that chart that shows the stages of mobile and immobile nutrient deficiency/abundance... But I really can't tell. My best guess based on that chart is magnesium deficiency (early stages).

Any ideas?

 

[parrajara]

I held off on the topping for a bit longer as per @Emilya's suggestion. It was actually an attempt to FIM, but I must've cut too low and topped them instead. This was on Dec 22 at night time.

The soil is starting to feel compact in my bigger plant, so I am considering transplanting her. She seems fairly healthy, but I notice the soil isn't drying as quick as the smaller plant - and as a result the leaves look different. This has been going on for the last 2 waterings, and I am afraid that if I continue it may lead to root rot.

I was considering defoliating two fan leaves in the bigger plant because the bottom growth sites aren't getting any light... but i think its best to let it be. I can stress it again in later veg after transplanting.

This is how they look today.

 

[013]

I’d say no need to transplant yet, you want her to fill up that container with roots, that looks like 1 gallon bucket and that should be good for a months worth of steady growth. Yes the soil does compact over time & with watering, and yes compaction is not generally good but since we are building a big rootball it’s ok. At last upcan you want to gently score the rootball with a sterile knife but that depends on having the rootball filled out to container edges.

Train the plant and run the wet dry cycle for several more weeks, this work now will help your yields later. It’s a slow process, nothing happens fast, plants don’t move at our speed. It’s hard to be patient but wait for next upcan and flip to flower.

What was your plans - are you gonna tie the arms down or do quadline?

Your topping job looks good!! Agree - no defol at this time, thats a short plant and you need the fans to pull in energy from light. Good plan using the white grate its sitting on, keep air moving etc.

 

[parrajara]

I’d say no need to transplant yet, you want her to fill up that container with roots, that looks like 1 gallon bucket and that should be good for a months worth of steady growth. Yes the soil does compact over time & with watering, and yes compaction is not generally good but since we are building a big rootball it’s ok. At last upcan you want to gently score the rootball with a sterile knife but that depends on having the rootball filled out to container edges.

Train the plant and run the wet dry cycle for several more weeks, this work now will help your yields later. It’s a slow process, nothing happens fast, plants don’t move at our speed. It’s hard to be patient but wait for next upcan and flip to flower.

What was your plans - are you gonna tie the arms down or do quadline?

Your topping job looks good!! Agree - no defol at this time, thats a short plant and you need the fans to pull in energy from light. Good plan using the white grate its sitting on, keep air moving etc.

Glad to get your input my friend! Thank you for another valuable post. I was thinking that compaction is an issue, but was hoping that the root growth would help address that issue. You've just confirmed that.

I will wait and let them grow. The watering time just went down from 4 days, to 3 days, and on my last watering it was about 2 and a half days. I will wait until I have to water daily to transplant.

The idea is to quadline, let's see how that goes

I started weighting them now too. Will update in a week or so.

 

[013]

Roger that Parra!! Ok when you start to tie her down just pull the limbs down a little bit and then let her rest for a day or two. If you snap any limbs then tape them up and support them so they don’t flop down or over. You can tighten the garden wire or pipe cleaners a few days later to make her bend more but it’s slow & steady that wins the race. You’ve got this covered but shout out at one of us or drop a post on the faq page if you get in a jam! You have good instincts in the garden, keep reading up here!

 

[parrajara]

Weighting them is definitely a good way to monitor them. Cannabitch's weight went down faster than Marijuana's, and it makes sense for the bigger plant to drink more. However, the plant isn't perking up much after watering. I added a picture of before and 18 hours after watering.

If I rule out overwatering/underwatering, there are still so many possible causes...

• Root bound (which I read it's a myth)
• Compaction lading to poor oxygen flow (most likely scenario in my opinion)
• lockout due to pH? I bought a pH pen that is useless, so I have not measure pH of my water or soil. I do let it sit between waterings (2-3 days) to dechlorinate.

I am also noticing that the stem on Cannabitch is looking quite red. Wasn't sure if this is how it always has been, but luckily I had Marijuana to compare. Marijuana does look similar, so may be the genetics.

If I stick to the watering schedule, tomorrow should be the next watering day... but the soil does not look anywhere near dry. Seems to keep getting worse every watering.

 

[parrajara]

As for Marijuana, its looking failry perky and healthy. Only things i am noticing is some weird discoloration on some leaves, and some incomplete/deformed leaves.

 

[013]

Parra, yes plants do get root bound but it should grow out just fine. When the soil is dry you can slip the pot off to check the roots but I don’t think you are root bound yet. Don’t water on a schedule, wait until soil is totally dry, plants that size should be able to go 5 to 7 days easy with no water added, maybe longer.

Do the comparison weight thing, fill a same sized container with dry soil - put it on the scale and take a reading.... use that for comparison weight against your girls. Red stems or petioles are pretty common... no biggie.

I do see a few white spots on the leaves that make me think of aphids, when they molt the old carcass shell remains stuck on the leaves. I would try to zoom up and get a pic of the white spots... a loupe, mini microscope, or usb digital microscope are the correct tools to use and listed from weakest to best.... but if you don’t have one then download a phone app called magnifyer. The app uses your phones on board camera to get digital microscope images. It’s hard to hold them still enough to get a good pic - just the slightest movement makes it blurry but maybe prop the phone up to get good pics. In first pic of MJ the leaves on bottom there almost look like bite marks, but IDK?

If you can... raise that grate up by putting wood blocks or similar under it to get more airflow and point a fan under there, should help to dry out the soil faster.

Hopefully Emilya will swing by soon if not then you can @ her tomorrow

 

[parrajara]

Parra, yes plants do get root bound but it should grow out just fine. When the soil is dry you can slip the pot off to check the roots but I don’t think you are root bound yet. Don’t water on a schedule, wait until soil is totally dry, plants that size should be able to go 5 to 7 days easy with no water added, maybe longer.

Do the comparison weight thing, fill a same sized container with dry soil - put it on the scale and take a reading.... use that for comparison weight against your girls. Red stems or petioles are pretty common... no biggie.

I do see a few white spots on the leaves that make me think of aphids, when they molt the old carcass shell remains stuck on the leaves. I would try to zoom up and get a pic of the white spots... a loupe, mini microscope, or usb digital microscope are the correct tools to use and listed from weakest to best.... but if you don’t have one then download a phone app called magnifyer. The app uses your phones on board camera to get digital microscope images. It’s hard to hold them still enough to get a good pic - just the slightest movement makes it blurry but maybe prop the phone up to get good pics. In first pic of MJ the leaves on bottom there almost look like bite marks, but IDK?

If you can... raise that grate up by putting wood blocks or similar under it to get more airflow and point a fan under there, should help to dry out the soil faster.

Hopefully Emilya will swing by soon if not then you can @ her tomorrow

I know I've said it many times, but I am so thankful for your help. You actually pay attention and provide meaningful input. Rare to receive such support nowadays.

Unfortunately I don't have any more containers that size, but I can look into getting another one. I am going to raise the grate and direct a fan underneath it, and I will wait longer than I have been to water it.

As for MJ... I am really hoping it isn't aphids..... that is the only rule my girlfriend gave me... no bugs! hahaha! Better make that couch comfy! I will download that app, and look into buying some micro lenses. I enjoy photography, so I don't mind spending money on them.

I will keep you updated my friend. Happy new years to you! Hope this year is much better than the previous one! Thank you once again!

 

[013]

Hey Parra, I’m glad to help my friend. I know a tiny little bit however a lot of this stuff is over my head, good news is - great backup just around the corner should you or I or anyone else need it.

I’ve got a cheapie analog loupe so mine needs upgrade for sure, word on the street is the digital usb ones are about $30ish... but yes I know the dreaded growers budget! I just got a few new beans and then spent $200 at the local grow store for amendments, rapid rooters & pest control stuff - yellow cards, safers soap and a bottle of SNS

Happy New Year!!!

 

[parrajara]

Hey Parra, I’m glad to help my friend. I know a tiny little bit however a lot of this stuff is over my head, good news is - great backup just around the corner should you or I or anyone else need it.

I’ve got a cheapie analog loupe so mine needs upgrade for sure, word on the street is the digital usb ones are about $30ish... but yes I know the dreaded growers budget! I just got a few new beans and then spent $200 at the local grow store for amendments, rapid rooters & pest control stuff - yellow cards, safers soap and a bottle of SNS

Happy New Year!!!

Heh, the budget keeps extending! But that's okay, it's better than buying it from the street and not knowing what you're smoking. I love the concept of growing my own, and it's a lot cheaper. One or two harvests and it's all paid off! Easy Peasy!

So I took a close look around the plants, under the leaves, and on the stems... I don't see any aphids. I also notice that the leaves have not gotten worse, they just remained the same. So if it's not aphids (still could be, but hoping it's not), I wonder what it could be.

Just a safety measure, I added some sticky traps to the inner rim of the pots near soil level.

 

[013]

Hmm no critters, well keep this tucked away for now but later on when you do get ample magnification then zoom up on the white spots to see if you can get closer look or pics. Also maybe point fan at leaves or mist them good one time at lights off to see if you can rinse them away, that way if any more white spots pop up then you will know.

I’ve heard some of the new humidifiers cause white spots from calcium deposits or hard water. Are you running a humidifier in the grow space? Good job on yellow cards at soil line!! Also hang sticky card over the canopy too, often that will catch any fliers coming into the garden first. Think aphids are hitchhikers, hoppers or crawlers tho and not a flying pest but I could be wrong for sure on that one.

Beyond that I’m striking out, but keep an eye peeled and let’s see what develops!

 

[parrajara]

Hmm no critters, well keep this tucked away for now but later on when you do get ample magnification then zoom up on the white spots to see if you can get closer look or pics. Also maybe point fan at leaves or mist them good one time at lights off to see if you can rinse them away, that way if any more white spots pop up then you will know.

I’ve heard some of the new humidifiers cause white spots from calcium deposits or hard water. Are you running a humidifier in the grow space? Good job on yellow cards at soil line!! Also hang sticky card over the canopy too, often that will catch any fliers coming into the garden first. Think aphids are hitchhikers, hoppers or crawlers tho and not a flying pest but I could be wrong for sure on that one.

Beyond that I’m striking out, but keep an eye peeled and let’s see what develops!

I think you're onto something with the humidifier. I do have one running in my tent, and I have noticed calcium deposits around it. I cleaned it all on the outside, but no way to get inside. I'm gonna do some research as how I could mitigate issues with my humidifier. Perhaps placing it somewhere else in the tent, or maybe even a way to clean inside. We'll see!

I watered MJ yesterday after 4 days of no watering. She seems to be doing good (Pic 3).I actually noticed the discoloration on the leaves seem to be fading away - that's relieving. The "bite marks" are still the same. There are no further signs of deterioration. For days, I have been trying to figure out what would make the leaves grow out deformed but have not found a conclusive answer hehe.

As for Canna.... well, she has been sad for a while now I have given it a quarter of the recommended dose of microbes twice in it's lifetime. On both occasions, I noticed these brown spots coming out after giving it the microbes. The first time around, they never got worse. Second time, they got to the point they are now (pic 2), but have not continued getting worse since. Just an observation... I think these spots have something to do with the 2 feedings. It also suggested to use the microbes every 1-2 weeks. First time was on day 26 and second time was on day 38. Won't be feeding it anymore microbes for at least 3-4 weeks (if it recovers).

In Pic 1 you can see all the different shades of green going on, and how droopy the plant looks, and has been looking for days.

Lastly, thanks to 013 for the suggestion. The grate is flimsy, so I came up with a solution that will work for the smaller pots... but it won't for the bigger pots. To fold the grate in 4 and zip tie it to keep it in place. It helps provide much more airflow underneath!

 

[013]

looks good! Ok now that you’ve watered them good let them both go dry, no more water for at least 7 - 8 days minimum. It’s ok to look, but otherwise hands off. They are not getting enough of the wet / dry cycle, they are getting the wet / wet cycle. When you water every 4 days the top of soil gets dry but the bottom is still soaking, weed roots dont like continually wet soil, or wet feet as we call it, they can’t breathe.

watch your leaf position it’s going to change what you are looking for is slight wilt- once that happens do nothing but keep watch and dont water for another 1/2 day to full day. Yes they will look sad for a minute but the wilt is a good kind of stress. But since you just watered & have plastic pots you will need to wait 7 - 8 days and watch for wilt.

PWT. So inside of every container of soil that has been watered there is a pool of water - it’s called the perched water table, it’s where the peat moss & ingredients hold a reservoir of water in suspension. For now try this - tilt your pots at steep angle, prop them up so they don’t tip over. Leave them tilted & propped for an hour or two. The buckets should pee out a small puddle, now you have reset the pwt to a better more normal level. set the bucket back on the grate keep air moving underneath... no more water for 7 to 8 days. It’s gonna hurt you because you want to do something but your girls will be fine - they will grow better for you. When the soil is totally dry, I mean dryer than my ex’s heart that’s when the weed will send out tiny root hairs to search for water.

Remember Parra before the plant can ever grow above ground... the roots must first grow underground to support a bigger plant, not happening in wet soil. Now hydro / coco has no problem with wet feet but with soil yup big time problem

 

[parrajara]

When the soil is totally dry, I mean dryer than my ex’s heart that’s when the weed will send out tiny root hairs to search for water.

Haha, this is gold

Thank you for the advice buddy. I have followed your advice, will update in a week or so. My plants are now on different watering schedules, canna should be next up in a few days.

 

[parrajara]

Please note I am not eager or impatient, simply trying to learn the process and analyze it so that I can avoid committing the same mistakes moving forth. You're all a great source to help me confirm my research, or provide other insight I may not have come across...
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Alright, so Cannabitch was watered on Dec 31st (5 days ago). I want to hold off for a couple of more days, but I see the plant deteriorating by the day. It went from light green spots and some rust spots with droopy leaves, to it's current state - a lot of brown spots, and yellowing leaves. Here are the pictures...

I've been doing research and it looks like the plant has a bunch of deficiencies, both micro and macro. My guess is that Happy Frog is out of food for my lady. I will be using Gaia 4-4-4 all purpose with some Gaia EWC to top feed my lady on the next watering. I also have power-bloom which a known YouTube (Mr. Canuck Grow) uses in conjuction with the Gaia 4-4-4 and EWC, even if it's not during flowering... I can't imagine it has excess nutrients, the soil is over 40 days old.... it all indicates deficiency - so what do you think?

My Gaia fertilizer has a bunch of ingredients, including Glacial Rock Dust which supposedly has a bunch of micronutrients. Do growers generally verify that they have all necessary micronutrients (i.e. manganese, boron, Sulphur)? Or will a good fertilizer generally include them?

 

[Emilya Green]

Your problem appears to have nothing to do with the nutrients you are using or your soil. Your plant has every indication of being root bound and needing to move to a larger container.