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Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

ScienceGrow

New Member
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

OK SG, I was talking about organic soils, and you are talking about liquid organic nutrients. These are 2 very different things. Not sure what medium you were using, peat maybe? I know that grows involving liquid nutrients are often referred to as "soil grows" but the are not "organic soil" grows.

Yes they relay, to some extent, on CEC, but they have more in common with hydro than with a true soil grow. When using bottled nutrients, the plant relies on you to provide the proper ratio of nutrients, and pH, it needs rather than being able to regulate these things itself through exudes.

When you apply nutrients in the wrong ratios, and/or mess up the pH, nutrient burn can occur as you suggested. The nutrients don't require micros to free them and make them available to the plant, they are already in a usable form.

In a true soil grow, the nutrients are there, from start to finish, and micros and plant exudes make the nutrients available as needed. When I build a soil, I use things like alfalfa meal, blood meal, bone meal, etc. The nutrients are locked up in forms unavailable to the plant and are broken down by micros (bacteria, fungus and nematodes) into a usable form. This is a complex and gradual process unlike bottled nutes that are in an instantly available form.

Out of curiosity, what do you use for a medium?
All of that sounds correct. I only disagreed on what I read as a misinterpretation of nutrient uptake. You appear to have that down. I've got no issue with organics as a grow method, it's much easier to grow a healthy plant, as the soil does it all with so little effort or worry. I do disagree that organics make it taste better, at least not because organic is special in some way. I would attribute this to, haha, synthetic growers using too high ppm. So, grown poorly, synthetic will taste worse. Organic makes it hard to do that, so results are consistently better. Also, dilution could be the problem too. Same amount of aromatics, but increased dry mass, equals less smell per unit of mass.

So far I've used soil, soilless mix, and a home mixed supersoil, using a popular recipe, forgetc the guys name. Ice something? I love all three for different reasons.

I currently have five plants in organic soil and on organic soluble nutrients, and just harvested two organic/synthetic hybrid regimen plants. I've determined, both organic and synthetic nutrients have their benefits, and so I use both, to great success on my latest grow.

My outdoor plants get supersoil and organic ferts if necessary. My lawn too.
 

Robert Celt

New Member
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

No worries SG :) On a text based forum, its often easy to misunderstand posts :) and I am not always clear on how I differentiate grow methods LOL which can be confusing when there are so many often lumped together.
 

ShiggityFlip

Member of the Month: Jan 2016, Aug 2017 - Nug of the Month: June 2017 - Photo of the Month: Sept 2016
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

All of that sounds correct. I only disagreed on what I read as a misinterpretation of nutrient uptake. You appear to have that down. I've got no issue with organics as a grow method, it's much easier to grow a healthy plant, as the soil does it all with so little effort or worry. I do disagree that organics make it taste better, at least not because organic is special in some way. I would attribute this to, haha, synthetic growers using too high ppm. So, grown poorly, synthetic will taste worse. Organic makes it hard to do that, so results are consistently better. Also, dilution could be the problem too. Same amount of aromatics, but increased dry mass, equals less smell per unit of mass.

So far I've used soil, soilless mix, and a home mixed supersoil, using a popular recipe, forgetc the guys name. Ice something? I love all three for different reasons.

I currently have five plants in organic soil and on organic soluble nutrients, and just harvested two organic/synthetic hybrid regimen plants. I've determined, both organic and synthetic nutrients have their benefits, and so I use both, to great success.

My outdoor plants get supersoil and organic ferts if necessary. My lawn too.
Be careful mixing inorganic nutrients with organic grows. The point of a good living soil is the interaction between plant and microbiota. Optimally the plant asks and the microbiota give. Adding inorganic nutes can make the microbiota go dormant because the plant is no longer asking for those nutrients. It can actually cause deficiencies. An example would be where Doc bud tested adding Epsom salts to supplement his Kit soil plants and it worsened the deficiency. If I am growing organically I would only foliar feed non organic nutrients.
This way they won't affect the soil interactions.

And let me specify. To me using organic liquid nutes is more like chemical nutrients. By organic I mean a well designed and cooked soil with mineral amendments and other things that need to be broken down to be useful. Guano verges on chemical for me, not for the Origen of the nutrients but for the ability of them to be used without microbial breakdown. Adding guano to an organic living soil can actually be very detrimental.
 

ScienceGrow

New Member
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

Be careful mixing inorganic nutrients with organic grows. The point of a good living soil is the interaction between plant and microbiota. Optimally the plant asks and the microbiota give. Adding inorganic nutes can make the microbiota go dormant because the plant is no longer asking for those nutrients. It can actually cause deficiencies. An example would be where Doc bud tested adding Epsom salts to supplement his Kit soil plants and it worsened the deficiency. If I am growing organically I would only foliar feed non organic nutrients.
This way they won't affect the soil interactions.

And let me specify. To me using organic liquid nutes is more like chemical nutrients. By organic I mean a well designed and cooked soil with mineral amendments and other things that need to be broken down to be useful. Guano verges on chemical for me, not for the Origen of the nutrients but for the ability of them to be used without microbial breakdown. Adding guano to an organic living soil can actually be very detrimental.
So far you're the smartest organic grower I've run into. You know why things work, not just that they do. That's awesome, and so far in my experience, rare. Overall, I agree with supersoil being true organic, and truly natural. And it's been just awesome outside. Inside, I may get there, but I find the soluble stuff easier to work with.

Yup, I fully agree on soluble organic nutes, it's all about marketing as far as I can tell. Same with synthetics. 16 different bottles my ass.

That's interesting, the Epsom salts issue. I wonder what would cause that, specifically.

Regarding the hybrid schedule I used. Maybe organic is the wrong term here. I was adding beneficial microbes with my synthetics, and watered(no fertilizer) with a mix of organic tea and regular water. So, I was attempting to use some of the benefits of organics, especially for the micro nutrients. I guess I was really just beefing up my Big Bloom and refreshing my microbe population a bit. Sorry, there's that language issue again.

I did get better results this way than the others independently in the side by side, but, it's possible with my being new that some other factor was involved.
 

ShiggityFlip

Member of the Month: Jan 2016, Aug 2017 - Nug of the Month: June 2017 - Photo of the Month: Sept 2016
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

Take a look at docbuds high Brix threads. He's really gotten it down. He sent in promix for analysis and had a lab tell him what was needed to make a good living high Brix soil. His latest batch of plants had such a high sugar content that they oozed sugar syrup out the top of the buds. (Guttation). I am just starting my high Brix clones now after cooking his soil kit for a month. He has foliar a and drenches designed to feed the microbiota and change the chemistry of the soil at different times. Seems like it is so much up your alley.
 

ScienceGrow

New Member
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

Take a look at docbuds high Brix threads. He's really gotten it down. He sent in promix for analysis and had a lab tell him what was needed to make a good living high Brix soil. His latest batch of plants had such a high sugar content that they oozed sugar syrup out the top of the buds. (Guttation). I am just starting my high Brix clones now after cooking his soil kit for a month. He has foliar a and drenches designed to feed the microbiota and change the chemistry of the soil at different times. Seems like it is so much up your alley.
Funny, BRIX is my next target! I'll certainly check Doc Buds stuff out, I'm going High BRIX outside this summer for my Frisian Duck plants, as well as for some of my other food crops.

May do grapes soon.

Haha, way off topic but good stuff here.

So, with your organic methods, do you notice the final bud swell? Is there anything you do or change within a week or so of this event, that could account for it?

I just can't tell if the bud swell is part of the lifecycle, or a result of something we're doing. I can't find examples of other plants doing the same, at least not as some definable, independent event during their growth. I've seen bolting, but this isn't bolting.

The only other explanation I can think of is an end of life false pregnancy type thing, where calyxes swell as if they had seeds in there like a man or woman can appear pregnant and not be.

If that's the case, it's hormonal. I wonder how that can be harnessed and tuned?

LED guy earlier said I'd never be swayed. Let me address that quick.

I'm just trying to better understand the plant, everyone. I have no investment in any particular method or approach, so if I'm truly wrong about anything, show me why and I'll be onboard. I argue until someone is proven wrong. I never agree to disagree. And I cede defeat when defeated.
 

ShiggityFlip

Member of the Month: Jan 2016, Aug 2017 - Nug of the Month: June 2017 - Photo of the Month: Sept 2016
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

Actually right now my hunger games thread is a classic Chem nutes grow. I used to grow organically back in the 90s. And I did notice a final bud swell. I think it is akin to the last desperate attempt to make something happen. Like when someone is freezing to death as a last ditch resort the body uses all remaining energy to heat the body up often making a dying person so hot they remove their clothes.

Doc's high Brix is me returning to organic roots. He has everything dialed in including the foliars so all you need to do is order his kit and get a bale of pro-mix and a bag of zero potassium earthworm castings. My second grow thread is using the kit. I will soon get some stuff from Doc in bulk to make the complete switchover and kiss Chem nutes goodbye.
 

KidGrow420

On Vacation
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

If you flush properly and use a "yucca" based solution then yes. It dose make HUGE difference. I have personally studied this and tried every flush technique possible... I am going to have to say SciencGrow. Your sadly mistaken. I have been growing and flushing marijuana for almost 17 years now.. After hundreds of grows and experiments, I do believe I am or have some forefront on this subject at hand. If flushed properly within the last 2 weeks of life then YES It DRAMATICALLY changes the taste, aromas, annnnd ash color... I am not saying your UN-intelligent so don't get me wrong here. But I think your thinking a little to much for your own good here. If you feed any plant not just cannabis straight water for more then a week you change entirely the composition of the nutes and fertz and (especially if your one of those chemical guyys) It dilutes it and the more water you feed it with less nutes and fertz the more diluted your plant becomes. Therefor washing away all the salt build ups and terrible chem tastes. Everything you've done and tried I've prolly done it and tried..... Been around the block a while. It runs in my family ;) If you must insist on your "Theory" (cause that's all it is) Then inbox me. Ill specifically show you evidence of what we are trying to say is true..
Try it yourself grow two plants of the same strain an phenotype and flush one and don't flush the other. Then come back and tell me what your thoughts are. If you want to take a natural approach (which I have done...) Then do all organics with both plants then flush one and not the other.. I mean just feed them water and organic ferts and nutes... Nothing else.. You'll right then and there (after being dried and cured) Will see,taste and smell the difference. ;)... BUT, all of that being said..

IMO The best growers in the world do not need to "flush" or they never flush. Solely because they know exactly the right amount and spoon feed their plants the EXACT amounts of (example) NPK RAW=Soluable, or other pure forms of the minerals and nutrients needed. So there is no chemy taste, in your buds or tomato's.. Theres a video of "Harley Smith" On youtube (youtube Harely smith, nutrient breakdown). Watch part 1 and 2 and listen to what he says about flushing.. This man is one of the worlds smartest and forefront runners in horticulture. He is the man to "shut up and listen too".

Now allot that above being said. I do agree with you. Most people do not dry/cure their buds the right way. This plays a big role in what where are talking about as well, a huge one actually.. But, you must understand what you trying to say will actually hurt people'a harvest if they read what you said and decided you knew what your talking about and just tried drying and curing right "the right way".. They will ALL notice a VERY noticeable change in taste and smells. You also must understand the grower. Most growers do over fert and nute their plants. So these people are especially acceptable to screwing up their harvest by not flushing properly... Anyways, this can go on forever it seems. But it shouldn't cause your technically wrong. Technically speaking. But, I know I can't change your mind. When you have as much grows under your belt as me, you'll start understanding what I mean. ;) Cheers brotha, let's agree to disagree !:Namaste::Namaste::Namaste:
 

arteekay

Member of the Month: Feb 2016
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

I have personally studied this and tried every flush technique possible... I am going to have to say SciencGrow. Your sadly mistaken. I have been growing and flushing marijuana for almost 17 years now.. After hundreds of grows and experiments, I do believe I am or have some forefront on this subject at hand.
This is another argument from authority based on anecdotes, not evidence. You may believe you are on the forefront of this subject, but without verification it's just bluster.

If I create a new account and claim 18 years of personal experience and thousands of grows over your 17 and hundreds, is my opinion of any more value to anyone here than your own? How about once the new account has 200 posts?


I am not saying your UN-intelligent so don't get me wrong here. But I think your thinking a little to much for your own good here.
I'm sure you didn't mean this to be offensive to SG, but I can't imagine he took it any other way. SG's posts lead me to believe he is very intelligent and is seeking evidence, not just further unverified anecdotes. There is no such thing as thinking a little too much for one's own good, IMHO.

Kind of like how "Now I don't mean to make this sound racists/sexist/*ist, but... " is always followed by something racist, or sexist, or *ist.


Everything you've done and tried I've prolly done it and tried..... Been around the block a while. It runs in my family ;) If you must insist on your "Theory" (cause that's all it is) Then inbox me. Ill specifically show you evidence of what we are trying to say is true.
I first read this thread this morning, and I can say with complete confidence that SC was not insisting on a theory, but was looking for debate based on verifiable evidence with cause and effect. I then saw a few people defend their own personal theory with a near religious enthusiasm and similar evidence.

If you have evidence of something or value you wish to share, why not offer it up to the entire community rather than just SG via PM?


IMO The best growers in the world do not need to "flush" or they never flush. Solely because they know exactly the right amount and spoon feed their plants the EXACT amounts of (example) NPK RAW=Soluable, or other pure forms of the minerals and nutrients needed. So there is no chemy taste, in your buds or tomato's.. Theres a video of "Harley Smith" On youtube (youtube Harely smith, nutrient breakdown). Watch part 1 and 2 and listen to what he says about flushing.. This man is one of the worlds smartest and forefront runners in horticulture. He is the man to "shut up and listen too".
Now this has value! Harley Smith is a verifiable source of information and has earned the right to be listened to while everyone in the general area just shuts up. That said, it is really just another argument from authority, the difference being the quality of the authority. If Harley Smith posts a video saying Cannabis is actually an animal and not a plant, I would hope he would be questioned and refuted regardless of the obvious authority of the source.

Sadly, it appears from my own quick google searches that Silent Bob's daughter is the more popular Harley Smith. Don't get me wrong, I love the View Askewniverse as much as the next pothead, but if we look to it for authority we might believe a 10-82 is actually disappearing a dead hooker from Ben Affleck's trailer.


@ScienceGrow, please continue your research and keep us posted on what you find out. I for one will always support challenging beliefs while seeking to improve our understanding. Thank you for your efforts.
 

arteekay

Member of the Month: Feb 2016
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

Correct me if I'm wrong as I've done no research into this subject, but wouldn't one major difference between Tobacco and Cannabis farming be that for Tobacco they are harvesting leaves, and with Cannabis we're harvesting unfertilized flowers?

I can't think of another crop that is similar to Cannabis. I can think of many leaf, fruit and vegetable crops but no other unfertilized flower crops.

Is there any analog we can look to?
 

ScienceGrow

New Member
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

Correct me if I'm wrong as I've done no research into this subject, but wouldn't one major difference between Tobacco and Cannabis farming be that for Tobacco they are harvesting leaves, and with Cannabis we're harvesting unfertilized flowers?

I can't think of another crop that is similar to Cannabis. I can think of many leaf, fruit and vegetable crops but no other unfertilized flower crops.

Is there any analog we can look to?
Gonna hit this in a moment.

Hey there arteekay, thanks for the defense there, you hit everything on the head. Every one of the well known cannabis gods has mistakes, retractions, and in some cases full on contradictions. Ed Rosenthal, Jorge Cervantes, Ryan Riley, that dude you guys named and I haven't looked up yet.

Besides flyboy, you say the big reason we need to flush is because most growers use too many nutrients. You claim to have been growing for 17 years, and you flush every time. This tells me you haven't learned to feed your plants properly in the 17 years you've been growing them.

But, beyond that, back to the facts and evidence.

So, yes, the question of good analogs to Cannabis flowers. You're right, flowers aren't leaves, so there should be a difference, and in my opinion, based on my knowledge of plant physiology, I find it far less likely that excess nutrients are being put in the flowers, much less, that they're being taken back out, or used up.

Flowers are sinks. This means they receive, they don't send. They receive nutrients based on concentration gradients. They receive most nutrients as amino acids, sugars, and carbs. Not as raw, inorganic elements, such as N. They don't store energy, at least not for use by other plant parts.

Leaves are a whole other story. Leaves are both sources and sinks depending on where they are in life. At harvest, tobacco leaves are sources, though failing ones. You pull tobacco leaves as they begin to senesce, losing much of their nitrogen to younger leaves. Leaves are a place where flushing would make sense to me, as mobile nitrogen is still present, and can still be removed from the leaf.

In a flower, there's just no identifiable way to remove "excess" nitrogen, or anything else. No way I've seen identified, at least.

But, while the flower and leaf are very different in purpose and fynction, the way they burn is pretty damned similar. So, here's some science. It proves nothing in the way of flushing being useful /useless, but it does challenge some of the purported evidence of it being of benefit.

Many cigar aficionados also believe there is a connection between quality and ash color. Most also believe white ash to be best.

Yet, Cuban cigars, kind of the gold standard of cigars, produces a BLACK ash. This has been attributed to VERY LOW levels of, haha, insert element here.

Some say low magnesium. Some say high potassium. Nobody ever mentions nitrogen. Some say black ash is bad, some say good. Here's a site that says black ashes are bad, because it means the soil contains LOW levels of nutrients.The Ash Knows...

Of course, they're all guessing too, maybe based on a tidbit of science.

How about the levels of elements found in wood ash. Most agree wood ash is mostly calcium of some form(white,) followed by carbon (pure black, naturally,) and then some trace amounts of heavy metals.

Nitrogen generally isn't found in ashes. Potassium certainly, but not nitrogen.

Interestingly, if you have a lot of magnesium you're burning, and water is available, you may end up with ammonia and Magnesium Oxide, MgO, when burned in the presence of nitrogen (78% of atmospheric air.)

I could, but won't, dig into that a bit more to see if it's possible that this is causing the flavor issues some complain of from not flushing. Again, looks to me like improper dry/cure.

Anecdotes. Here's an anecdote for you. I just harvested 6 ounces from two plants, one flushed, the other not. Both taste the same, smoke the same, burn the same, and are both just as smooth as each other, which is very smooth. I dried this stuff over two weeks before jarring, and continue to let it progress.

I've been smoking some of the product since harvest. Here's what I've noticed.

The wet buds are harder to light and keep lit. They burn into these black masses. They honestly aren't that harsh, but there's no real flavor.

As the days have passed, the product has improved. This is from my experience, and from the experience of my wife, dad, and brother in law. It's burning cooler now, stays lit better, and the ash has consistently become lighter in color and texture. From a black lump in my bowl to fine gray ash, now at an almost white ash.

So, for what anecdotes are worth, a proper, careful, dry and cure are critical, especially compared to the concern everyone seems to put into flushing.

Of course, there are very few people marketing and selling equipment for drying and curing, so maybe that's why.
 

Slowpuffer

Well-Known Member
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

Gonna hit this in a moment.

Hey there arteekay, thanks for the defense there, you hit everything on the head. Every one of the well known cannabis gods has mistakes, retractions, and in some cases full on contradictions. Ed Rosenthal, Jorge Cervantes, Ryan Riley, that dude you guys named and I haven't looked up yet.

Besides flyboy, you say the big reason we need to flush is because most growers use too many nutrients. You claim to have been growing for 17 years, and you flush every time. This tells me you haven't learned to feed your plants properly in the 17 years you've been growing them.

But, beyond that, back to the facts and evidence.

So, yes, the question of good analogs to Cannabis flowers. You're right, flowers aren't leaves, so there should be a difference, and in my opinion, based on my knowledge of plant physiology, I find it far less likely that excess nutrients are being put in the flowers, much less, that they're being taken back out, or used up.

Flowers are sinks. This means they receive, they don't send. They receive nutrients based on concentration gradients. They receive most nutrients as amino acids, sugars, and carbs. Not as raw, inorganic elements, such as N. They don't store energy, at least not for use by other plant parts.

Leaves are a whole other story. Leaves are both sources and sinks depending on where they are in life. At harvest, tobacco leaves are sources, though failing ones. You pull tobacco leaves as they begin to senesce, losing much of their nitrogen to younger leaves. Leaves are a place where flushing would make sense to me, as mobile nitrogen is still present, and can still be removed from the leaf.

In a flower, there's just no identifiable way to remove "excess" nitrogen, or anything else. No way I've seen identified, at least.

But, while the flower and leaf are very different in purpose and fynction, the way they burn is pretty damned similar. So, here's some science. It proves nothing in the way of flushing being useful /useless, but it does challenge some of the purported evidence of it being of benefit.

Many cigar aficionados also believe there is a connection between quality and ash color. Most also believe white ash to be best.

Yet, Cuban cigars, kind of the gold standard of cigars, produces a BLACK ash. This has been attributed to VERY LOW levels of, haha, insert element here.

Some say low magnesium. Some say high potassium. Nobody ever mentions nitrogen. Some say black ash is bad, some say good. Here's a site that says black ashes are bad, because it means the soil contains LOW levels of nutrients.The Ash Knows...

Of course, they're all guessing too, maybe based on a tidbit of science.

How about the levels of elements found in wood ash. Most agree wood ash is mostly calcium of some form(white,) followed by carbon (pure black, naturally,) and then some trace amounts of heavy metals.

Nitrogen generally isn't found in ashes. Potassium certainly, but not nitrogen.

Interestingly, if you have a lot of magnesium you're burning, and water is available, you may end up with ammonia and Magnesium Oxide, MgO, when burned in the presence of nitrogen (78% of atmospheric air.)

I could, but won't, dig into that a bit more to see if it's possible that this is causing the flavor issues some complain of from not flushing. Again, looks to me like improper dry/cure.

Anecdotes. Here's an anecdote for you. I just harvested 6 ounces from two plants, one flushed, the other not. Both taste the same, smoke the same, burn the same, and are both just as smooth as each other, which is very smooth. I dried this stuff over two weeks before jarring, and continue to let it progress.

I've been smoking some of the product since harvest. Here's what I've noticed.

The wet buds are harder to light and keep lit. They burn into these black masses. They honestly aren't that harsh, but there's no real flavor.

As the days have passed, the product has improved. This is from my experience, and from the experience of my wife, dad, and brother in law. It's burning cooler now, stays lit better, and the ash has consistently become lighter in color and texture. From a black lump in my bowl to fine gray ash, now at an almost white ash.

So, for what anecdotes are worth, a proper, careful, dry and cure are critical, especially compared to the concern everyone seems to put into flushing.

Of course, there are very few people marketing and selling equipment for drying and curing, so maybe that's why.
S.G.,
I have scientific evidence that potheads of earth, over the last few decades have doubled production at mason jar co..
I can also tell a distinct difference when I flush my plants, a few days before chop. And scientific or not, that's just a fact. So not you can say my taste buds are not evidence !! I really appreciate you starting this conversation, it's how we learn !! You say nutrients can't be flushed out of the buds, then how come when you add a little of any kind of flavoring into the plants last watering before chop, why can that flavor can be tasted in the final product ?? And if you're eating cannabis , then flushing is even more important. Cookies have less pot taste, etc. . I wouldn't advise any of my friends to eliminate the final flush.
 

ShiggityFlip

Member of the Month: Jan 2016, Aug 2017 - Nug of the Month: June 2017 - Photo of the Month: Sept 2016
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

S.G.,
I have scientific evidence that potheads of earth, over the last few decades have doubled production at mason jar co..
I can also tell a distinct difference when I flush my plants, a few days before chop. And scientific or not, that's just a fact. So not you can say my taste buds are not evidence !! I really appreciate you starting this conversation, it's how we learn !! You say nutrients can't be flushed out of the buds, then how come when you add a little of any kind of flavoring into the plants last watering before chop, why can that flavor can be tasted in the final product ?? And if you're eating cannabis , then flushing is even more important. Cookies have less pot taste, etc. . I wouldn't advise any of my friends to eliminate the final flush.
I have not seen any flavoring additive that actually imparts a flavor from a root based feeding. It's just not something that is going to travel from roots to buds and accumulate in the buds.
 

ScienceGrow

New Member
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

Okay, not a lot of time right now, but quickly.

Dude, you say "...scientific or not, that's just a fact."

You do see the flaw, in that argument, right? That there is no scientific evidence to support the theory is the reason it isn't fact.

As for facts, this should be exceedingly easy to prove scientifically. If I ever have time, I'll try it out, but, maybe someone else has the time.

Hell, maybe one of the companies selling their "Flush" products could do this.

Get an analysis of the NPK of the dry plant matter, at multiple stages, for multiple plants. Some get a flush, some don't. If a company does it, they should have a no flush, plain water flush, and product flush.

Do a pre harvest check, a check halfway through the flush period, another after, and continue this all the way through the cure.

So, get to it guys. Prove your claim. If I see enough data to confirm, I'll get right on board. Once I validate the source of the data.

Oh, ShiggityFlip is also correct. If you want to get flavor in there, you'll need to cut the stems and place them in the flavor solution after, or during the cut, preferably.

Roots don't uptake most flavorants, they're way too big to pass through the roots.

That's why it doesn't taste like shit, when you've been feeding it with literal shit, for four months.
 

DeanB

New Member
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

If I'm watering to capacity, then adding the extra percent for run-off, is that just wasting water and nutrients or would it be considered a mild flush of salt build-up every time I water?
 

arteekay

Member of the Month: Feb 2016
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

I have to say I agree with Shigs here. It'd be a little like adding a couple drops of favoring to a baby's meal with the intention of having a fresh smelling diaper to empty later.

Goes in white, comes out brown, not a thing you can do about it.
 

ZARBU

On Vacation
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

This guy sciencegrow is correct.

Im sorry guys flushing is a myth and if done early will harm yield and potency .
 

growitsfun

Active Member
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

I'm sorry but the science is not with you. Flushing cannot remove nutrients from the plant, especially the flowers. It's just plant physiology. You would literally have to change how the plants vascular system works to do what you're saying.

Experience is often priceless, but sometimes, it gets in the way of learning something new.

People do what they do when they see that it works. But sometimes it isnt that particular thing they are doing. Sometimes, it's just associated.

So, say you are a great grower. You do everything by the book. You flush, dry and cure properly. As far as you can tell, it works.

But, maybe it's just that you are a patient and methodical grower. You do everything right, so, even the things that do nothing appear to be helpful.

I fully understand the theory and I was convinced too, until I thought about it more, and then verified it in my plant physiology book. And then verified again with a botanist over at the Mad Scientist website.

There's no science behind the 24 hours darkness thing either.
I have a theory. If the flowers are sinks....wouldnt the flush dilute (the sink water) the nutes already inside of the flowers which would result in smoother smoke and flavor?
 
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