How's your paranoia?

[bluter]

just a quick mental health check in ..


connected devices in grow spaces came up in another thread. which touched off a side debate about whether folk trust them collecting data either about, or in the grow area.

i definitely do not. yet i am comfortable posting here, pics and all, as i know everything is privately held. plus, hey, now it's legal here, and really no one gives a crap what you're up to.

all the same i am careful with connected devices, and while i may take plant pics with my phone, they are deleted or moved to another device pretty quickly. it really is a hold over from pre-legal. also i provide for four other adults, and my own licensing has always been a bit grey area even now. so i exercise a bit of discretion.

beyond tech devices, i don't even keep written notes. this is definitely a hold over from pre-legal. and lazy. previous, if you were ever unfortunate enough to land on the wrong side of the crowbar hotel, written grow journals could be used as evidence of an an going criminal enterprise / organized crime, and your charges would escalate exponentially. boy i'm glad all that's gone now.


i'm curious how everyone else feels, and how comfortable they are with others knowing our passion, or how discrete.
not everyone can enjoy legality either.

is there anything you are super careful over ? chime in with what you are comfortable with, or not comfortable with.

 

[Melville Hobbes]

I no longer post pics of outdoor plants, as someone actually figured out my (past) location using them.
This coming season I'll have an outdoor plant in a pot, so I'll post pics of that with the only visible background being a brick wall.
The other aspect of that is, post harvest, we can all be targets. As long as weed is as overpriced as it is any grower's stash can be a tempting target for thieves. Especially in a good year.
There was a home invasion just down the street from me right after he harvested his plants. That was before legalization though, so he wasn't exactly co-operative with the cops.
I don't tell people I grow until I know them well, and I never tell them how much I have. Just being (over?)cautious.

 

[bluter]

I don't tell people I grow until I know them well, and I never tell them how much I have. Just being (over?)cautious.

locally the only people that know i grow are my parents, a few friends who grow, and one person i provide for..
that's quite enough. yet most local folk i know seem to assume i'm part of the community lol


edit : sadly home invasions are not at all uncommon here as well. it's been speculated cannabis theft may be a large part of why.

 

[Emilya Green]

It is my belief that between google, gmail, my android device and facebook, whomever cares already has quite a long file on me. I do what I can to minimize their ability to "see" me and have turned off location tracking on my android, post nothing but pet and family stuff on facebook and I use DuckDuckGo for my internet searches. Other services in my home, such as my smart thermostat, smart stove and fridge do not bother me and I really don't care if some sort of data about me could be compiled there. Who in the word is impacted by knowing that I enjoy setting my house temperature to 73? My security cameras bother me a bit, and I am careful not to be undressed within sight of any of them, since they do save data on the cloud and actually with a subscription can be monitored. Am I worried about pictures of my plants? A few years ago, yes I was, but now that it is legal, I don't care. I use strong passwords as a rule and I never use unsecured internet, such as wifi in an airport and I encrypt my internet at home. At work I use a mobile hotspot and a vpn so that my data can not be even sniffed by the network gurus in the corporation I work for.

Smart plugs, sensor driven lights, my watch, my wifi bathroom scale all report to the internet, and I really don't care. If someone could see the activity, all they would see is that some device runs for 12 hours and another runs for 18, some are intermittent, but they have no idea what it is that is being controlled, so this data does not bother me in the least that someone might be able to see it. My car has GPS tracking on it and shows a lot of data in that computer about where I go, how long I am there and how often, which is much more invasive that anything else in my life, and this really doesn't bother me either. If someone is overly concerned about how many times I have pulled into Starbucks this year, have at it... the data is right there.

We can choose to be careful with our electronic footprint or not. We can choose to be paranoid about what is being reported to the cloud, and even be concerned about who it is ultimately being reported to. I choose to worry about the things in life that might hurt me, but not the numerous inconsequential data leaks that occur in our modern lives. For instance, I care not that someone could figure out the watering frequency of my garden, but I would care a lot if someone was able to see my bank accounts and track every dollar I earn or spend. Its all to do with the degree of obtrusiveness, and your personal level of vulnerability. I am careful not to put my fingerprints on the internet for example, but I feel perfectly safe sharing pictures of my dogs or my legal hobbies.

Everyone has their own level of comfort when it comes to these things and personally, I know I am not doing anything wrong and I refuse to worry about every little detail of my life getting into the electronic record. I am careful, but not paranoid.

 

[nivek]

for me it is not a 'trust' thing,, i 'trust' near no one, period

for me it is simply that i wish not to share myself with those whose sole purpose is to exploit and deceive everyone and anyone, for personal gain,,

edit.. any more than i have to

 

[PlanetJ]

Define smart device I would say. If by that you mean connected sensors that report back to my own server and data is saved on my own drives, Im all for it.

If you mean connected sensors that report back to someone else's server and data is saved in the cloud, then nah.

Its pretty easy to leverage such sensors with a cheap left over laptop or PC as the server, and enjoy all the benefits of networked sensors, without having to be paranoid.

 

[bluter]

It is my belief that between google, gmail, my android device and facebook, whomever cares already has quite a long file on me. I do what I can to minimize their ability to "see" me and have turned off location tracking on my android, post nothing but pet and family stuff on facebook and I use DuckDuckGo for my internet searches. Other services in my home, such as my smart thermostat, smart stove and fridge do not bother me and I really don't care if some sort of data about me could be compiled there. Who in the word is impacted by knowing that I enjoy setting my house temperature to 73? My security cameras bother me a bit, and I am careful not to be undressed within sight of any of them, since they do save data on the cloud and actually with a subscription can be monitored. Am I worried about pictures of my plants? A few years ago, yes I was, but now that it is legal, I don't care. I use strong passwords as a rule and I never use unsecured internet, such as wifi in an airport and I encrypt my internet at home. At work I use a mobile hotspot and a vpn so that my data can not be even sniffed by the network gurus in the corporation I work for.

Smart plugs, sensor driven lights, my watch, my wifi bathroom scale all report to the internet, and I really don't care. If someone could see the activity, all they would see is that some device runs for 12 hours and another runs for 18, some are intermittent, but they have no idea what it is that is being controlled, so this data does not bother me in the least that someone might be able to see it. My car has GPS tracking on it and shows a lot of data in that computer about where I go, how long I am there and how often, which is much more invasive that anything else in my life, and this really doesn't bother me either. If someone is overly concerned about how many times I have pulled into Starbucks this year, have at it... the data is right there.

We can choose to be careful with our electronic footprint or not. We can choose to be paranoid about what is being reported to the cloud, and even be concerned about who it is ultimately being reported to. I choose to worry about the things in life that might hurt me, but not the numerous inconsequential data leaks that occur in our modern lives. For instance, I care not that someone could figure out the watering frequency of my garden, but I would care a lot if someone was able to see my bank accounts and track every dollar I earn or spend. Its all to do with the degree of obtrusiveness, and your personal level of vulnerability. I am careful not to put my fingerprints on the internet for example, but I feel perfectly safe sharing pictures of my dogs or my legal hobbies.

Everyone has their own level of comfort when it comes to these things and personally, I know I am not doing anything wrong and I refuse to worry about every little detail of my life getting into the electronic record. I am careful, but not paranoid.

that type of data has been used to target and eliminate threats. one of the most famous was the use of smart tv data to identify and liquidate a high ranking al quaeda commander. the israeli gov't has also made extensive use of commercial data to target and eradicate specific individual threats.

of course that is at the extreme end, and there is nothing reasonable suggesting we would ever fall under that type of scrutiny.

just that it can be done. and easier than we know.

 

[bluter]

Define smart device I would say. If by that you mean connected sensors that report back to my own server and data is saved on my own drives, Im all for it.

everything on one can be had by everything else now. if it reports to anything, someone is going to capture it as a subset to try and monetize it. even deeper with 5g. it's the grease of the digital economy.

not saying go to paper and candles lol. just be aware. not sure we have data secrets anymore.

 

[PlanetJ]

everything on one can be had by everything else now. if it reports to anything, someone is going to capture it as a subset to try and monetize it. even deeper with 5g. it's the grease of the digital economy.

I mean, thats not really how networks work, and 5g is just a network technology. What you are referring to is online services, cloud based tech, etc.

If you configure a sensor to send its values over network to your own server, it wont send a copy somewhere else.
If you use a store bought sensor that requires internet to work, then you are likely right.

 

[013]

just because I hold a pistol with my right hand so I don’t slice my own throat with the straight razor while shaving with my left hand does not give you the right to make assumptions about my mental health.….

word on the street is…. it’s not paranoia if they really are after you

no I don’t trust any of them, yes of course we are all being digitally catalogued

every show you watch, every keystroke you make… phone, text, email, FB post, your gps waypoints every time your cell hits another tower, metadata on pics, selfie’s videos

not worried they are gonna hack my grow but yeah we have migrated to new era with digital data, security and privacy concerns.

yep I veered from connected devices but I think its smart to be vigilant - so I can appreciate a certain base level of paranoia

 

[Roy Growin]

Got me thinking, good post matey

 

[Sueet]

I'm pretty sure that I am in no way smart enough to understand all the ways they are watching us and collecting data. I just try to limit exposure in the ways I do understand.

And then I quietly cackle to myself that my data will probably confound them more than be helpful, cuz I'm a friggin' weirdo. I don't act like other people so I figure my data is less valuable /shrug.

 

[SmokingWings]

no I don’t trust any of them, yes of course we are all being digitally catalogued

every show you watch, every keystroke you make… phone, text, email, FB post, your gps waypoints every time your cell hits another tower, metadata on pics, selfie’s videos

not worried they are gonna hack my grow but yeah we have migrated to new era with digital data, security and privacy concerns.

The temperature of the fridge is not important. What is important is what is put in the fridge and how much it cost. What time the grow lights come on is not important. What is important is everything else that is bought for the plants under the lights plus who made the lights and how much they cost.

Digital cataloging of the individual. They are not storing the person's name. They are storing everything else the person does. Everything they buy, when they buy it, how much they spend. What is bought at the supermarket. What was looked at while in the department store (note #1). What time they leave for work in the morning. How often they buy gas for the car. The cell phone towers has been mentioned. Those towers can be and have been used to track just how much time is spent away from the house (note #2).

Data Analytics and Surveillance Capitalism. Two different names for the same sort of collecting of everything about a person and selling the data to someone who will use it to get a person to spend more money. They do not need to know the person's name.

Data Analytics involves figuring out what all the data means and selling that result to someone else who will use it to sell something to the person. Surveillance Capitalism is the name of the tracking of a person and their activities for the purpose of getting them to spend more money. Also the name of a book on how it all works.

Not even sure if the GPS on a newer cell phone can be turned off. Some phone apps will not work if it is. The location of the phone is needed to track the person--they do not need to know the person's name, just what the person does, where they do it and how much they spend.

Note #1: Loyalty cards or phone apps for a specific store have used to track what a potential customers does in a store. Example I have read about is the actual case of a customer who stood in the shoe department for 20 minutes. They spent most of that time in front of the display for one particular companies shoes. They bought nothing. Two days later the store's app on their phone has a coupon for the shoes made by that shoe company. The coupon was for an additional $5 off the sale price and that was all it took to make a sale. The person went back to the store, bought the shoes plus a few other items.

Note #2: In mid 2020 people did not have as many places to go. Restaurants were closed. Hours cut back on some stores. No movie theaters open. People were staying home and not driving. Price of gas went down since there was not as much of a demand. The auto insurance companies were able to get the data from the cell phone towers and could track that a sizeable number of the people just did not leave their house or the area covered by the closest tower. They sent a check to their customers saying that the insurance company had less exposure because of less amount of time spent on the road. It happened in Michigan, I do not know about other areas of the US.

 

[SmokingWings]

I'm pretty sure that I am in no way smart enough to understand all the ways they are watching us and collecting data. I just try to limit exposure in the ways I do understand.

And then I quietly cackle to myself that my data will probably confound them more than be helpful, cuz I'm a friggin' weirdo. I don't act like other people so I figure my data is less valuable /shrug.

Yes. Bless you sister. Keep up the good work. We are all outlaws in the eyes of America.

The future that Jefferson Airplane told us about is now the very money we can spend.

Though these days it seems that it is the banks, corporations and even the govt that wants us to spend, spend and spend some more to make money for the banks and corporations and then the govt can praise the improved national economy.

 

[Emilya Green]

Let's talk real paranoia. There is another important data point that is being tracked, and one that is not talked about very much, because they really don't want us to know that they are doing this. They know who we gather with.

I always thought it would be cool to have an app that showed me all the active cell phones around me, like in a bar. Or, an app that alerted me when a particular person entered a specific space. The government can do it, why can't I?

It is because they don't want us realizing that they can see this data, along with knowing who we associate with and exactly how long and when we are in their presence. They know if someone new happens to visit Mr. Big... and then that person can be investigated. We are now in a surveillance state and they are desperate to figure out a way to "tag" us before we realize that our devices that we have been conditioned to never leave our side, are tracking our every move. First we are seeing facial recognition everywhere... even in the ball stadium you frequent. The scariest person to an authoritarian state is someone who is unidentified. A wise person realizes that they would love to implant a chip in us to make this all very easy. 1984 is here... we have just been conditioned not to notice it.

 

[greenjeans]

I figure that if they are following me they will die of boredom or decide best to avoid in fear of contagion!!!

 

[Melville Hobbes]

Let's talk real paranoia. There is another important data point that is being tracked, and one that is not talked about very much, because they really don't want us to know that they are doing this. They know who we gather with.

I always thought it would be cool to have an app that showed me all the active cell phones around me, like in a bar. Or, an app that alerted me when a particular person entered a specific space. The government can do it, why can't I?

It is because they don't want us realizing that they can see this data, along with knowing who we associate with and exactly how long and when we are in their presence. They know if someone new happens to visit Mr. Big... and then that person can be investigated. We are now in a surveillance state and they are desperate to figure out a way to "tag" us before we realize that our devices that we have been conditioned to never leave our side, are tracking our every move. First we are seeing facial recognition everywhere... even in the ball stadium you frequent. The scariest person to an authoritarian state is someone who is unidentified. A wise person realizes that they would love to implant a chip in us to make this all very easy. 1984 is here... we have just been conditioned not to notice it.

There was an app available a while ago that did exactly that. It was called "Where you at" or something like that.

Have you seen the adds for those workout screens like Mirror or Tonal? I can't be the only person who thought of the calisthenics scene from 1984 when I saw those.

Big brother turned out to be triplets, and they're named Google, Facebook, and Apple.

 

[SmokingWings]

Big brother turned out to be triplets, and they're named Google, Facebook, and Apple.

You forgot Amazon, InstaGram and every cell phone company.

 

[SmokingWings]

I figure that if they are following me they will die of boredom or decide best to avoid in fear of contagion!!!

We would like to think that but you are now another statistic involving people who go nowhere. They will continue to look for a way to make money off you.

 

[Emilya Green]

The temperature of the fridge is not important. What is important is what is put in the fridge and how much it cost. What time the grow lights come on is not important. What is important is everything else that is bought for the plants under the lights plus who made the lights and how much they cost.

Digital cataloging of the individual. They are not storing the person's name. They are storing everything else the person does. Everything they buy, when they buy it, how much they spend. What is bought at the supermarket. What was looked at while in the department store (note #1). What time they leave for work in the morning. How often they buy gas for the car. The cell phone towers has been mentioned. Those towers can be and have been used to track just how much time is spent away from the house (note #2).

Data Analytics and Surveillance Capitalism. Two different names for the same sort of collecting of everything about a person and selling the data to someone who will use it to get a person to spend more money. They do not need to know the person's name.

Data Analytics involves figuring out what all the data means and selling that result to someone else who will use it to sell something to the person. Surveillance Capitalism is the name of the tracking of a person and their activities for the purpose of getting them to spend more money. Also the name of a book on how it all works.

Not even sure if the GPS on a newer cell phone can be turned off. Some phone apps will not work if it is. The location of the phone is needed to track the person--they do not need to know the person's name, just what the person does, where they do it and how much they spend.

Note #1: Loyalty cards or phone apps for a specific store have used to track what a potential customers does in a store. Example I have read about is the actual case of a customer who stood in the shoe department for 20 minutes. They spent most of that time in front of the display for one particular companies shoes. They bought nothing. Two days later the store's app on their phone has a coupon for the shoes made by that shoe company. The coupon was for an additional $5 off the sale price and that was all it took to make a sale. The person went back to the store, bought the shoes plus a few other items.

Note #2: In mid 2020 people did not have as many places to go. Restaurants were closed. Hours cut back on some stores. No movie theaters open. People were staying home and not driving. Price of gas went down since there was not as much of a demand. The auto insurance companies were able to get the data from the cell phone towers and could track that a sizeable number of the people just did not leave their house or the area covered by the closest tower. They sent a check to their customers saying that the insurance company had less exposure because of less amount of time spent on the road. It happened in Michigan, I do not know about other areas of the US.

As someone trained in marketing I understand the value of all of this data. I had a course in my post graduate work that studied the ethics of marketing. The general consensus is that as long as the data remains granular, in which it never goes to the fine point of identifying any single individual, then it is ethical to collect and use this data to better understand market trends and how people en mass, think. This allows producers to better respond to what the consumer actually wants.
This ethical study has two sides to it however, we can also study this question from the viewpoint of the consumer. Is it more ethical to openly and freely allow this data exchange in the belief that this will allow your personal needs to be better addressed (think of FB tailoring ads to things you have shown interest in) and in the larger sense will better mankind, or is it a valid and ethical viewpoint to believe that you should be allowed to be completely isolated and free of having to have any scrutiny at all into your personal data. Is there an ethical and moral right to be autonomous inside of a community that gives you benefits in other ways? Is there even an implied "duty" to participate?

As the digital landscape continues to evolve, these questions are being considered. Conversations like this one are taking place in multides of settings as we fumble our way into the future. Personally, I enjoy the convenience that participation gives. One has to be careful though, for there has to be a balance between convenience, and allowing big tech to propagandize and mislead. Be careful what you believe... make sure you were not told to believe it from an early age.