Jon's First Outdoor Grow: Sugar Breath Photoperiod & Strawberry Banana Autoflower

[InTheShed]

The tipping point is when you notice!

 

[Jon]

I'm sure it does... its biggest enemy would be moisture. I think I would pack a desiccant pack in with it instead of trying to keep it moist.

I don't, I try to get it sand dry. Bone dry. The jars are always open.

 

[Jon]

The tipping point is when you notice!

What an awesome answer.

 

[Rexer]

Here's one for you - you know how I keep my kief by strain and all that? Does kief cure too?

Morning Jon!

I keep mine in a light proof ziplock container, with a boveda.

Age it and cure it. It gets smoother, and makes for better hash.

Hope that helps!

 

[Jon]

Morning Jon!

I keep mine in a light proof ziplock container, with a boveda.

Age it and cure it. It gets smoother, and makes for better hash.

Hope that helps!

It does Rex! I essentially do the same. My little kief jars are small Infinity jars designed for kief. But I like leaving them open until they're totally dry rather than putting a pack in. The pack takes up kief space and I only have five of the smaller jars. Note: you've often heard me extol the virtues of the Infinity jars, I won't further belabor the point, but yeah - the pack type lids they have really do the trick. In the small jars I have yet to find a need for a pack, just mix it around periodically and leave it open. And if anyone ever tries one out, every order from their actual website comes with one of these kief jars for free.

 

[InTheShed]

No need to cure kief so leaving it out would be fine. It's the plant material that needs the cure rather than the trichs.

 

[Jon]

No need to cure kief so leaving it out would be fine. It's the plant material that needs the cure rather than the trichs.

Interesting! A dissenting opinion! Cool, that's when we learn and it gets good.

Anyone else want to chime in on this?

Thanks Shed!

 

[Rexer]

No need to cure kief so leaving it out would be fine. It's the plant material that needs the cure rather than the trichs.

Hmm interesting point. And while my screen does allow some miniscule plant material through, I always age mine, as ive noticed a huge difference.

It's also the traditional method, as described in Ed Rosenthal's book....

 

[Joe Brewster]

Hey BK, how are you? Thanks. This was done using the Trim Bin (this is an actual product, available on the Zon) and the screen it comes with, which I believe is a 150. So far I haven't gotten the finer screen to go under this one, but they make them. It's one of my favorite tools. I consider it poor man's (and lazy man's) way to get kief. Hell, I could turn it into hash with wax paper and an iron. I didn't know that about bubble hash, which essentially begins just like this stuff - as pure kief, correct? I am 100% certain the bubble/dry ice extraction method is going to net more kief than I get with the tray. But I guess the difference is the way I do it the kief is dry dust immediately, or a day or two later. I have never tried to do anything with it except top bowls or bongs, and roll it into joints. And collect it. Lol. I know I leave a lot of kief in the bank this way, but once I get to the point where a pass is showing the slightest green, that trim is done for kiefing and goes into bins for butter. Still has plenty of oomph left for butter this way.

Roots in a soil grow. Hmm. Off the top of my head, honestly, my answer would be microbes. One way or another.

But if you want an actual product from a nute line, I have had good success with Fox Farms Root Drench. It seems to maintain root health well if the tops of the plants are any indication.

Love the if you can only pick one type questions, lol. If you want one product that will help your plants every time, in every scenario, no matter what the strain, without fail, 100% guaranteed to help and make your plants healthier, stronger, and significantly more capable of transferring nutes from root to leaf - that is the all-important MSA (mono-silicic acid) at some high (40s) percentage. If I only get one I'll take that.

Hope that helps!

Hey jon
Even cheaper & easer is using a 5 gal beer strainer bag ( Check my winter hash thread )
if you are getting good kief with your trim bin at room temps you should be able to do it with a beer strainer bag even at room temp ( I have never tried ,I wait for winter ) I even sift my big leaves
The extreme cold breaks the trichome heads from the stalks , giving you cleaner kief

 

[Jon]

Hey jon
Even cheaper & easer is using a 5 gal beer strainer bag ( Check my winter hash thread )
if you are getting good kief with your trim bin at room temps you should be able to do it with a beer strainer bag even at room temp ( I have never tried ,I wait for winter ) I even sift my big leaves
The extreme cold breaks the trichome heads from the stalks , giving you cleaner kief

Hey @Brewsterman - thanks for the info/methodology! I'll try that. Right now before I Trim Bin it I leave the leaves in giant plastic freezer bags, the 1 gallon ones, overnight. Then I do a bag at a time in the morning right out of the freezer. Sort of the same concept. But aren't we both cutting corners when we could maybe get 30% more return or more, and better, cleaner kief, if we used the dry ice, multiple screened bags extraction method? I feel like both of these we're doing are poor man's version of that. I saw a dude go through the whole thing start to finish on youtube, there's tons of videos of it, and the amount, and the cleanliness, that he got blew my mind. What do you think?

 

[InTheShed]

Hmm interesting point. And while my screen does allow some miniscule plant material through, I always age mine, as ive noticed a huge difference. It's also the traditional method, as described in Ed Rosenthal's book....

Do we have any idea what's actually happening to the trichome heads over time other than the gradual degradation of THC into CBN? Could the more "complex" high come from the additional body effects due to that?

Curing (as we define it for flower) is when the bacteria in the plant material chew through the sugars, chlorophyll, etc.

 

[Rexer]

Do we have any idea what's actually happening to the trichome heads over time other than the gradual degradation of THC into CBN? Could the more "complex" high come from the additional body effects due to that?

Curing (as we define it for flower) is when the bacteria in the plant material chew through the sugars, chlorophyll, etc.

Great questions Shed! As always

Wish I could tell you. Other then the anecdotal evidence of my experiences, and having read that it's the traditional method I've got nothing.
And I do like my CBN, so who knows?

It hits beautifully, kills the pain, doesn't make me couch locked, and is smooth as can be.

Its also fun to make, for some extra kick, in my last puck I put a bit of RSO in it . There was no need, it was more of a "let's see what happens".......and yup, it's something else I'd recommend someone trying

 

[Jon]

Great questions Shed! As always

Wish I could tell you. Other then the anecdotal evidence of my experiences, and having read that it's the traditional method I've got nothing.
And I do like my CBN, so who knows?

It hits beautifully, kills the pain, doesn't make me couch locked, and is smooth as can be.

Its also fun to make, for some extra kick, in my last puck I put a bit of RSO in it . There was no need, it was more of a "let's see what happens".......and yup, it's something else I'd recommend someone trying

Wow, you guys rock, awesome discussion and I'm learning a ton. In my experience, the kief does seem to change over time. However, what I notice is that once it gets to bone bone bone dry, where I can mix it in the small round jar and it doesn't stick to the sides at all, that's about when the change seems to stop. So I wonder if the change that I'm perceiving is the difference between smoking it slightly wet versus smoking it bone dry? That drying process takes a while. I could expedite it by spreading the kief out flat or whatever, but I like it to take it's time. I just mix it each day until it's bone dry. But maybe I'm tasting that and not the kief "curing?"

 

[InTheShed]

I've never done anything with kief but it certainly seems there would be a difference between smoking wet and dry. I know that scissor hash burns completely differently right after trimming compared to a few weeks later.

 

[Jon]

I've never done anything with kief but it certainly seems there would be a difference between smoking wet and dry. I know that scissor hash burns completely differently right after trimming compared to a few weeks later.

Yes! I have seen that as well. I LOVE older dried scissor hash. I can rarely let it sit long enough. Lol.

Good point. Thanks.

 

[Jon]

I've never done anything with kief but it certainly seems there would be a difference between smoking wet and dry. I know that scissor hash burns completely differently right after trimming compared to a few weeks later.

But maybe that difference is significant enough to my palate that I 'perceive' it as curing, cuz over say several weeks I might hit it once a week or twice to test it, and I'm mislabeling that difference as "curing," when in fact, as you suggest, it doesn't cure due to there being no plant matter.

 

[Rexer]

And don't forget bubble hash, which can have a higher moisture content....

For the kief, you just need to remember, it too can become moldy if handled/stored incorrectly.

 

[InTheShed]

But maybe that difference is significant enough to my palate that I 'perceive' it as curing, cuz over say several weeks I might hit it once a week or twice to test it, and I'm mislabeling that difference as "curing," when in fact, as you suggest, it doesn't cure due to there being no plant matter.

Or maybe "cure" just means something different for kief than for flower.

Still don't know what the aging process would do to trichome heads, which in theory should be almost 100% THC (within the limits of our processes), other than degrade it to one extent or another.

 

[Joe Brewster]

Hey @Brewsterman - thanks for the info/methodology! I'll try that. Right now before I Trim Bin it I leave the leaves in giant plastic freezer bags, the 1 gallon ones, overnight. Then I do a bag at a time in the morning right out of the freezer. Sort of the same concept. But aren't we both cutting corners when we could maybe get 30% more return or more, and better, cleaner kief, if we used the dry ice, multiple screened bags extraction method? I feel like both of these we're doing are poor man's version of that. I saw a dude go through the whole thing start to finish on youtube, there's tons of videos of it, and the amount, and the cleanliness, that he got blew my mind. What do you think?

Why do people think you have to spend big money on equipment
They been making hash for decades & decades (think they had bubble bags) let alone the time it would take

Just because it's cheap don't mean it's poor hash ( my trim shake will melt )
you can buy diff grades of strainer bags ,hell you could even use the expensive " bubble bags" with out water
The biggest deal is to get it cold so the trichome heads & stalks are brittle & break off

I just think messing with all that water & ice would be a big waste of time, when I can get fine hash already

If I had a ton to do I would set up an old dryer, to do my shaking, in the winter

 

[Joe Brewster]

Or maybe "cure" just means something different for kief than for flower.

Still don't know what the aging process would do to trichome heads, which in theory should be almost 100% THC (within the limits of our processes), other than degrade it to one extent or another.

Well the THCa in flowers turns to THC over time ,why wouldn't the ThCa in the trichome heads do the same thing?
I'm sure there is other things in trichome heads than just pure THC