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Organic pellets vs Generical Hydroponics Autos and Regulars plus DWC

LEDRF

Well-Known Member
As some of you have come to know, I love doing experiments. So first the experiments and the set up.

I have a separate veg room, where I run a 4 foot t5 for clones and seedlings. Also, a 600w hps. I could use MH, as I do have a new bulb, but I sort of like what hps does for node spacing. I don't prefer tight nodes personally. I might change my mind again, who knows.

I have a separate grow room with two 600w hps and a 181w led if I need it. I also have an extra 400w hps if I need it.

The goal here is a perpetual grow, harvesting every month, if possible. To do this, I am growing regulars and autos.

Right now, I have the regulars in 5 gallon dwc buckets with 2 stone in one and 4 in the other. Great White Shark, and my reliable critical #47.

Genetics -

Critcal #47 is a mix between ak#47 and critical mass, a very potent and pretty high yielding strain. I highly recommend it. I believe Critical #47 was by Royal Queen seeds or positronics.

Great White Shark is Brazilian x South Indian x Super Skunk. It is by Greenhouse Seeds.

Auto Mazar is Afghani x Skunk #1 by Dutch Passion, plus rudirallis.

auto white widow and biodiesel are just the auto versions of the same name.

Growing medium

For all plants not in DWC, I use 50% coco plus 50% perlite. I use the brick coco. To expand it, I use ph water of 5.5 plus I add cal mag to it.

The organic pellets I use are a slow release nutrient NPK, plus amino acids, mycrozhea, etc. I find it lack a bit in calcium, especially in coco, so I add 100PPM of cal mag by botanicare as it is organic. Or general organics cal mag.

The pellets I use on top of the soil at 1oz per gallon of medium.

I add more on about every two to three weeks.

DWC

I start with vf-11 plus 100ppm of calmag, then I move onto general hydroponics Bloom Micro at a ratio of 6-9 or less, about 500-700 ppm.

I add pk boosters once or twice in the flower cycle to all plants, and finish off with a natural bud denser, brown sugar, at about a cup per two gallons or so.

This time I will only flush for two or three weeks.

I also use drip clean to flush.

In DWC, I use 1ml of bleach per 3 gallons of water, every two days or so, plus drip clean at the recommended dose, or a bit less.

Experiment 1 - Organic pellets vs generical hydroponics 6-9 ratio of micro and bloom plus cal mag 100PPM.

Both are in the exact same coco/perlite mix. Both are the same strain from the same company, same batch. Both are fed at the same time. Both are fed with ph 6.0 water, and sometimes just well water when I feel it needs a bit of washing out the acids.

The only difference is the GH one is fed with the 6-9 ratio of micro -bloom, non organic, and the other is fed with organic slow release pellets, which take about 2-3 weeks to break down before you need to add them to the top of the soil again. Both are also fed with the cal mag 100ppm.

I feed the organic one with ph water 6.0 every time I water. That and I add calmag every other feeding.

The GH one, I feed with GH then alternate with just ph water and calmag.

So far the results speak for themselves. The organic auto mazar is on the right.



The left dwc is Critical #47 and the dwc on the right is great white shark. They are on vf-11 plus calmag right now, and bleech and drip clean as stated.

Once they have a nice root system, I will switch them over to the 6-9 gh, modified Lukas Formula.

In the very back, which cannot really be seedn, on the left auto WW and on the right auto biodiesel.

AGE OF Plants

DWC critical #47 a clone I made and the Great White Shark, from seed, are both the same age.

DWC age = 49

I know, they look small for their age but that is because I purposely stunted them for a while in Dixie cups because I am trying to time everything right. They resumed growing a few weeks back, and are probably about to explode in growth as the roots are growing and poking out of the 8inch net pot. When they go to flower, they will go to a big white modified cooler, like you use for camping.

It is an igloo sport 70, which is 17.5 gallons, but of course, I can't fill it to the top, so probably will be using 10-13 gallons of water in it. However, this thing gives lots of room for the roots.

Here is a part of a bud from my previous critical 47 grow, which started indoors, then went outdoors for a while, then went back indoors for a good month.

 

danklover79

New Member
I'm first to sub, awesome! Can't wait to see what you do with this one, so I'll be around.
 

AscendedMasterKief

Well-Known Member
I'm on the front page, w00t! Here for the ride, mate.
 

LEDRF

Well-Known Member
I redid my flower room. I covered the windows with that pink foam-board insolation to keep the sun out and the heat in. Every bit of efficiency of energy will save me money. :)

I will be bombing tomorrow for all bugs, mites, white flies, etc. I buy a multipurpose bomb from the hydro store. I do this every time between grows.

Welcome, ascended. :)
 

LEDRF

Well-Known Member
The thing I dislike most about DWC is having to check the PH. You have to at least check it a day or two after you change res, because it always drops. After you ph like two more times, without changing res, it usually stabilizes and slowly rises to 6.2 then pretty much stays there or super slowly rises.

My problem is, I forgot to check it after I change res. I let it go like three days, then it is 7.2. Not good for the plant of course. So, I stressed the dwc plants out a bit by doing that. I ph's them back to 5.7

I fed all the other plants with ph 6.0 and calmag 100ppm, plus my water is well water of 150, so total ppm after calmag is 250.

Experiment 1 - Auto Mazars, organic pellets vs floranova
I forgot to say that I was going to do floranova, not micro and bloom. So, I gave her the first feeding of floranova. She will be getting that from here on out instead of vf-11. I also use 100ppm of calmag. vf-11 is used just until autos get flowers. I will also hit both with a pk booster once or twice at some point.

I think these organic pellets are my future way of growing. Some of my clones where looking light green, so I added the organic pellets on top, in about 7-10 days, they were super green and healthy. I love these things. All I have to do is ph my water and add cal-mag every other time. Such a super lazy and effective way to grow in 50-50 coco perlite.

auto mazars

These girls get huge, just so you know. The organic is 3 feet now, and the floranova is 2 feet. 2 feet seems about normal. three feet seems pretty huge. There are bud sites all over. Doesn't look like the rocket bud type of autos, where you get just one large bud.

These seem to grow similar to the dinafem auto white widows that I grew before. I am growing another one of those now.

Seedling autos white widow and biodiesel. I will take pics of these soon. They are tall do to the 600w being far away from them. I perhaps should put them under their own light. I could place them under the led for now in the grow room after I bomb it. That will keep them from stretching so much.
 

LEDRF

Well-Known Member
Big update

Auto Mazars day 53 days old from sprouting

Auto White Widow and Biodiesel 9 days old

Critical 47 3rd generation clone - like 50 days old, but I purposely stunted her in a Dixie cup, and only recently put her in a 1 gallon container, and how she is growing again, looking nice and healthy being fed the organic pellets.



I just finished hst her branches so I can get about 11 tops. Then I will use my bowl method. Tomorrow I will be placing her in her final 18 gal tote, and then under a 400w hps or 600w hps to really fill out before I flower her. I want her really big before I flower her. The next one to go into flower will be a great white shark.

So, I made a huge decision today. DWC takes too much time. It's not that it is hard, it just takes too much of my time. I got sick of checking ph, phing the res, changing res, etc. My new way of growing is organic pellets in coco-perlite for sure. It is so easy with great results.

Sure, dwc gives quick and large results, but you can get great results with coco-perlite as well. The main key to large yields is a big root system while the plant is still in veg.

Anyway, so I killed the two dwc culture plants. Bye, bye. I took three clones from the Great White Shark. One of them will be chosen to grow in a big pot.

For now, the next big plant is the following clone I've been training, I believe 3rd generation of my Critical 47. I just got through HST her so she will have about 11 tops. That is the goal. 11 big colas I can train. I will do my typical training using bamboo sticks, and pulling each branch out away from the center so the light can penetrate deep on each cola.





I figure as long as I get an 18 gallon root block like that, then I can pull 6-10 ounces for one plant. Perhaps with time, I will get that to 1 pound per plant. The most I got last grow was 10 ounces for one plant in an 18 gallon tote.

Now that I see the huge difference the organic pellets are making vs floranova or even the flora line micro and bloom, I think over 10 ounces is very doable with coco-perlite in 18gal tote. Hell, smokeemup gets a pound from 1 plant in a 9.6 gal pot, using humus soil mixed with a good compost soil under 1 600w light. That is frigging amazing. Well, he gets almost a pound.

Look at the difference between the organic auto mazar and the floranova. Oh, the organic pellets have all sorts of shit in them, from mychrozea, to amino acids, npk, etc.



I think with these pellets and my "bowl" training method, I can pull 10oz or more from one plant in 18gal tote with coco-perlite under 1 600w light.

The mazars grow a lot like the ww auto, in that they have colas all over. They grow very much like a normal plant, but flower on their own, in this case with 18 hours of lights on, and still also getting light from the sun through the window.



Closer shot of the buds developing.




Aww, the baby autos. They should be going into flower when I am harvesting the auto mazars. Yes, I am going for a perpetual harvest every 30-40 days. The ultimate goal is a decent harvest every 30 days or less.

These girls got really tall and spindly because they were too far away from the 600w hps. I didn't have room before for them under any mh or the t5, but they are now under the t5, so hopefully that shortens them up. I placed them in their final pots from the go this time, 5 gal pots.



My previous critical 47 grow all chopped and drying. :)
 

LEDRF

Well-Known Member
I love these slow release organic pellets.

So, disappointing news. Mice chewed the stems of the seedlings, auto White Widow and auto biodiesel. Faggot. I just finished putting down a bunch of mice traps and sticky traps for them. Take that bastards. Also, I planted three new seeds.

Auto White Widow

Auto ak 47

regular-feminized Great White Shark--just in case the clone doesn't do well.

So the mice set me back about two weeks for my perpetual 30 day harvest of autos. Oh well. Shouldn't be too hard to get back on track. I now will be placing plastic domes over the seedlings with a bunch of small holes to protect them from mice, just in case. Once they outgrow the domes, the mice shouldn't mess with them.

Damn, the mice could have at least at the plant, but no, instead they only chewed the stem in half.
 

LEDRF

Well-Known Member
Got critical 47 in her 18 gallon home. She is looking beautiful, dark green. Loving these organic pellets.

I will be putting a train wreck in the flower room as well, while doing autos in the veg room, right now two mazars. I have two more autos lined up to grow under the t5 until they outgrow that space, then they go under the 600w next to the mazars. Hopefully, by then the mazars will be ready to harvest, or close to it. If I need to, I can always put the WW auto and Ak Auto in the flower room to grow a bit while I wait for the mazars to finish.

Then the great white shark will be growing in the flower room as well, waiting her turn in the flower room.

The plan here is to have a harvest every month with the autos, and eventually with the regulars.
 

danklover79

New Member
Damn mice, I just went to war with them as well, I tried sticky traps, huge rat traps, poison, all kinds of shit. Finally we got some cheap $2 plastic traps and caught the bastards in less than an hour. We used peanut butter, they can't carry it off like cheese, so they will usually set the trap off trying to eat it all
 

AscendedMasterKief

Well-Known Member
Got rats outside around my area. Been putting them professional boxes in, around the area, soon as teh little critters nibble, they go for water, adn then die. Been finding one or two here and there, cleaning up the area. Buzzards are loving the little snacks. And, I found out that the poison in the boxes here metabolizes before the birds and stuff start munching, so good news there: if your four-legged friends find the corpses, they won't get poisoned from eating the dead rats. Cheap enough, too, only set me back about $20 for the box, and $10 to fill it with poison as needed.
 

LEDRF

Well-Known Member
I think I got the rats figured out. Okay, so because some things changed do to me getting sick of DWC, not that it didn't work well, it does, but I just got sick of res changes and all that jazz. I'll stick to organics, I think. Big pots, big yields, hopefully.

Here are picks of the new set up.

Experiment 1: Day 59 of a 80 day auto strain.

Same as before. Auto Mazars. Both in 10 gallon pots from the hydroshop. Both have 50/50 coco-perlite with added calmag right from the start. Each feed 100ppm of calmag every other feeding.

Mazar Organic is fed top soil slow release pellets that are organic. They contain beneficial bacteria, NPK, micronutrients like cal-mag, amino acids and more. The brand is called B1. That plant got to a hight of 3 feet and staying.

Mazar Floranova is fed floranova 500ppm for now every other feeding. She has stopped growing at a little taller than 12 feet. She is about 8 inches under the organic one.

So far, organics are winning. I also think from previous experience, the organic will be more stick and stoney and tasty. We shall see.




On the right, auto mazar organic. Left is floranova auto mazar. Winner thus far is Organic.



Close up of auto mazar organic.

White Widow and Ak47 DAY 1



autos in 5 gallon pots, fed organic pellets and calmag plus. They are in their 5 gallon pots from the very beginning. The WW has sprouted. The AK will sprout in the next few days. I will mark this as day 1 for them.

Great White Shark. One is a seedling, the other is a clone from the dwc seedling I had going, but I decided I am done with DWC for a while, if not forever. I will not keep track of the age of regulars in veg. I will veg until I feel they are big enough to flower and get a big yield.

The great whites are to stay in veg until the critical 47 and trainwreck are finished in the flower room.



The seedling hasn't popped but will in a day or two. The clone is just starting to grow new leaves. They are inside a cheap foil plastic lid dish I bought from walmart. This acts like a mini greenhouse seed propagator. Only costed like 2-3 bucks. :)

They are both in coco-perlite.

Next is the trainwreck and 4th generation critical 47 clone.



I just transplanted the trainwreck in a 2 gallon pot until my air pots arrive at my local hydroshop that they ordered for me. The air pots are the ones with all the cone spikes on the sides. Supposed to allow maximum airflow and root development. I will see much great they work. I will be transplanting her into either a 10 or 15 gallon one.

I will begin my bowl LST method of training once she has adapted to her air pot.

Critical 47 adapted to her 18 gallon tote quickly, so I began her bowl lst training. All plants in the flower room get sprayed the hell out of with floramite before I put them into flower, and before I put them in the flower room.



Critical 47 right before training.



Critical 47 right after training. I think she will be a beast.

Both will be fed with the organic slow release pellets. I do as an experiment want to try Jobe time release pellets. Maybe I will do that with the great white sharks. One fed B1 organic pellets and the other jobe pellets.
 

LEDRF

Well-Known Member
For those interested.

How I transplant. First, when I prepare my coco-perlite, I first put a bunch of water in a large 30 gallon tote. I put in the water calmag 100ppm to 200ppm. I ph to 5.8. I let the compressed block of coco expand in the water. Then I add the perlite and mix it all up.

When I transplant, I add a little fish and kelp meal to the soil in the new pot and mix in it a bit. By a little, I mean like I pinch it with my fingers. Maybe a half to one table spoon each. For seeds or clones, I don't add the meal.

After this, I water the transplanted plant with ph 6.0 water with a little (5ml per gallon) of Lilly Miller's UltraGreen B1 plant starter, and root starter stuff if I have it. Just a few drops. If not, then a about 5ml per gallon of vf-11 or raw honey.

I only water with enough water to get a little run off.



How much to water with?

In a one gallon pot, I water with about 5oz of water.

In a two gallon, 10oz.

In a 5 gallon, about a pitcher, like the ones from walmart, which I think are half gallons.

In a 10 gallon, I water with a gallon of water or a gallon and a half.

18 gallon pot, I water with 3-5 gallons of water.

I do this about every 3-7 days. I really just wait for the top soil to be totally dry, or if I see lower leaves drooping a bit, then I water again.

I alternate between water and feeding. If I use floranova or flora series, I feed one watering, then next watering I only ad calmag, then I feed again.

With the organic pellets. I water with ph water 6.0 only, then next watering I add calmag plus. I alternate back and forth. Once the buds start to put on bulk, I water with a PK booster, and I start to water with brown sugar every other feeding until finish.


Flushing

I flush for the last two weeks with nothing but ph water and brown sugar and drip clean. This makes the bud taste sweet and smooth. The brown sugar also packs on density.
 

LEDRF

Well-Known Member
Experiment 1 - Organic vs Floranova

I think it is clear who the winner is already. Organic pellets by the brand of B1, which have no B1 in them, interestingly enough, but they do have NPK, micros, bacterias, amino acids, etc.

Organic auto mazar is 8 inches or a bit more taller then floranova mazar. Also, organic mazar has way more bud sites and buds all together. Check this out.

Here is Organic



Here is floranova



Clearly, these organic pellets kick ass. Anyway, here is a pic of the flower room. It is set to 18 hours of light right now because I am using it to veg the critical 47 and trainwrech. I don't have the room to veg them right now in the veg room.



I am letting the floranova mazar take advantage of it's own light for right now in the flower room, until the critical and trainwreck take up too much space. She is now under the 181w LED plus getting almost direct light from the two 600w on her left and right, one MH one HPS. She is getting lots of varied light, so perhaps she will catch up to the organic mazar, which is now under the 600hps in the veg room.

I also slightly trained the autos mazars by tucking leaves and using wire to slightly, very slight pull some branches away from the center as to open up the canopy.

Here is a bud shot from my last grow after the bud is dry. I pull 1lb and 14oz off 4 plants, which were mostly grown indoors, but I did put them out in the sun for a while, but most of that time was in veg. They did bulk up some nice buds before I brought them back indoors, though. 4 plants finished under 1 600w hps and 1 181w led.

The outdoor experimental DWC one only pulled 4oz, and she even finished all by her self under 1 600w. Her roots only got half the size they should have do to the outdoor stress causing root rot.

 

LEDRF

Well-Known Member
Day 65 of auto mazars


Vertical Lights--Large Yeilds--Low Electricity bill - YouTube

Check out the video to see my new experiment with vertical lights. I finally got the parts I need. The hardest part was finding the parts to make a platform for the pots to sit on that would then fit into the 1 and 1/4 inch female slot in the Christmas tree turner. I found some of the tree turners on Walmart site for $29 a pop. The parts to rig it to fit my pot plants with pots and all, an extra $10, So $39 a tree, but still not bad.

For those that don't care to watch the vid, this is what's going down. Two 600w lights will hang vertically, with no tubes, no hoods, just bare lights. One will hang toward the top of the tree, and one toward the bottom. This works great for shorter trees, 3-4 feet max. If you grow large 6 foot trees, then you will need to put a light in the middle as well.

I did a quick test with two lights about 1.5 feet away, and got a pretty even lux reading from top to bottom on my tree. This means all the buds around the tree will receive equal light. The lights push out equal light in all directions, so I can place 4 trees rather close to the lights and get a good 70lux to 90 lux, which is huge. two lights, all 4 trees receiving 70-90 lux from top to bottom. No more small almost useless buds, but for hash making, at the bottom of the tree.

I can keep them pretty close because each tree will be slowly rotating on it's platform, like those rotating Christmas trees at Walmart. The ones I bought hold up to 80lbs. None of my trees are going to weight that much.

You can even use this for hydro because it comes with a cord running down the center so your Christmas tree lights don't get tangled. You can use that cord for your air pump in dwc.

Anyway, the idea is going to work. I ran the lux test all around for four trees. Even readings. Because the trees slowly turn, all sides will receive this light to all bud sites on the outside of trees, and inner buds will even receive good light. I can move leaves, tuck leaves, do some very miner training to be sure inner buds receive good light and are not blocks by leaves and outer buds.

I've never seen anyone grow like this before, have you?

In fact, I think you could get larger yields this way even without the electric tree turners. You just turn manually ever day by a quarter turn. of course this means you would need to keep your trees farther from the light, but this also means you could fit 5-6 trees around the two lights. The reason you would need to move the trees farther back is because without them constantly being turned by the electric turner, they would burn easily.
 

Hiker

Member of the Month: April 2013
I redid my flower room. I covered the windows with that pink foam-board insolation to keep the sun out and the heat in. Every bit of efficiency of energy will save me money. :)

I will be bombing tomorrow for all bugs, mites, white flies, etc. I buy a multipurpose bomb from the hydro store. I do this every time between grows.

Welcome, ascended. :)
Which bug bomb did you use? I've been wanting to set one off in my room, but I've heard mixed reviews about their effectiveness.
 

LEDRF

Well-Known Member
Hiker, I used raid max fumigator from Walmart, 3 to a pack for only $13. It has 12.6 percent of the same active ingredient in Dr Doom, but way more of it. Dr Doom is weak.

Make sure it is the fumigator and not fogger. Just check the active ingredient. It will have 12. something, I think 12.6

They work great for me. Got rid of mites and white flies. I also spray my plants while in veg with floramite, then again right before flower.
 

LEDRF

Well-Known Member
I need to keep track of this shit or I will forget.

Mazars were watered with calmag and a 0-10-10 organic PK booster by Alaska. I put in about 250ppm of the PK booster and 100ppm of calmag.

Trainwreck and Critical 47 were watered with calmag, and of course I most always ph my water to 6.0-6.2. They are doing lovely with the organic pellets. No signs of burn, and they are super green.

The next few times I water the auto Mazars will be with just ph water and drip clean, and perhaps calmag. The drip clean is to be sure no salt builds up.

I will then feed the floranova auto mazar with floranova again. The organic mazar is doing so much better than the floranova one. So much more buds, much bigger, just everything is better.

However, I do see that the auto mazar cannot handle as much of the organic pellets as a regular plant. This is my first time using them, so some of the tips of her leaves our burned. Now I know to use a little less than I use for regular plants, which is 1oz per gallon of coco. In other words, if a 10 gallon pot, then I top dress with 10oz of pellets.
 

LEDRF

Well-Known Member
Day 69 of auto mazars from sprout, but I think they will go longer than 80 days. Those buds haven't even really began to swell up yet. I say 90 to 100 days, but that is fine as the one is huge.

I watered with just ph 6.0, appropriate amount of drip clean, a little humic acid, and silica. This is my pretty much water clean to pull out the salt build up that might happen. I like to do this after a PK feeding, which is what I did last time.

I did that to all the plants, even the seedlings.

It is amazing how much larger and better the organic auto mazar is doing, even though, for about the last week, the floranova auto mazar has been under 3 lights. LED, 600w hps, and 600w mh. It's getting so much light. I only have it that way until my turn tables arrive.

Anyway, check out some pics.



That right there is the beastly organic auto mazar. These pellets rock. For seedlings, I drop two or three pellets in there after they have 4 real leaves. Then I wait until they show signs of lightening, then I give them more.



The Floranova auto mazar looks so much smaller in comparison. Her buds are so tiny still, and not many of them.

To the left there is the trainwreck. She hasn't grown much since transplant, but will take off once she has established herself. Critical 47 should finish before trainwreck. It will be a while before I switch to 12/12 though.




That there is the critical 47, all trained and pretty. She has a nice even canopy. She should grow into a huge bush under my new vertical two light, turntable method.
 
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