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- #181
Conradino. I'm being frustrated by typing on a tablet, and I'm in the middle of making a huge peach cobbler and ice cream base... Ash is great as a pH up. Hardwood ash is preferable to something like pine ash.
PeeJay's Prudent Home-Brewed Organic Soil - Outdoor Out of Sight Deck Grow
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Conradino. I'm being frustrated by typing on a tablet, and I'm in the middle of making a huge peach cobbler and ice cream base... Ash is great as a pH up. Hardwood ash is preferable to something like pine ash.
Hello PJ. I took my crushed eggshells & cannabis leaves and baked them for about a 1/2 hr. Had the kitchen smelling like a smoke out cypher. I'll be using it in my next soil mix.
GardenFaerie
New Member
I don't have a time table of how long it takes to change the pH in soil, but I don't use lime to get that done, nor do I use eggshells or any other. It simply will not keep the pH at the level you want. The soil will always revert unless you constantly watch it.
The way I've kept pH levels neutral in a very alkaline soil is by using a lot of organic matter. Live compost. The microbial activity is the only thing which can sustain levels of pH over time. I condition my soil about every three years with more compost and when I plant something I always mix compost in the soil by about 1/3 the structure. Every year I top the soil with mulch which breaks down slowly over time, keeps the soil moist and cooler than if there was not mulch. I mulch in containers, also. Dennnise uses clay balls which are designed to grow hydroponically, but they are excellent as mulch because they don't have active organic matter and won't cause fungal problems at the soil level in containers. I know you didn't ask all this stuff, but it's been a while since I typed these words.
I really don't known any other ways because I've been an organic grower for 30 years. I know nothing about chemical up or down or any additives of that type. I wish I could be more helpful, but my method is quite simple. I can only hope it will translate to how I grow cannabis in the ground. We shall see.
The way I've kept pH levels neutral in a very alkaline soil is by using a lot of organic matter. Live compost. The microbial activity is the only thing which can sustain levels of pH over time. I condition my soil about every three years with more compost and when I plant something I always mix compost in the soil by about 1/3 the structure. Every year I top the soil with mulch which breaks down slowly over time, keeps the soil moist and cooler than if there was not mulch. I mulch in containers, also. Dennnise uses clay balls which are designed to grow hydroponically, but they are excellent as mulch because they don't have active organic matter and won't cause fungal problems at the soil level in containers. I know you didn't ask all this stuff, but it's been a while since I typed these words.
I really don't known any other ways because I've been an organic grower for 30 years. I know nothing about chemical up or down or any additives of that type. I wish I could be more helpful, but my method is quite simple. I can only hope it will translate to how I grow cannabis in the ground. We shall see.
Conradino23
Well-Known Member
The reason why I never advise people to use limestone derivatives is cause it's not sustainable, and organic growing for me is not only about taste, health and happiness, but also about the awareness what comes from where and how. I agree that good soil mix doesn't need any PH manipulation, but if somebody just can't do it right cause one makes it too complicated, then some agents to up or down the PH come in handy. Most of the problems espwcially in indoor grows comes from urge to put shitloads of NPK and then to push it even more with fertilizers. It!s a little bit like breaking your car apart and then trying to put jet engine in hope it will fit under the mask 
GardenFaerie
New Member
Conradino, you are so right. And I do understand why people use the pH up or down. Many pot growers only grow pot. They are not gardeners, they are pot growers. Now don't get me wrong, that is certainly a specialty which I am in awe of, but it is a whole different world than I am used to.
I have a LOT to learn and I am doing the reading on the science behind it all. Incredible stuff.
I have a LOT to learn and I am doing the reading on the science behind it all. Incredible stuff.
Conradino23
Well-Known Member
Yeah, gardening I just harvested my first young potatoes grown 100% organicallt. They were so good I ate them for two days in different forms. Delicate with very balanced starch and so creamy with a little bit of butter or as a purée with a pinch of black pepper. In a month I'm pulling all of them
I just harvested my first young potatoes grown 100% organicallt. They were so good I ate them for two days in different forms. Delicate with very balanced starch and so creamy with a little bit of butter or as a purée with a pinch of black pepper. In a month I'm pulling all of them 
erieflwr
Well-Known Member
Con and Garden, thank you both. I, too, am a long time gardener, but only of flowers, not crop, except for the odd strawberry or tomato. I appreciate Earth, but have only recently considered Dirt. In my life outside the Cab, if a flower doesn't thrive, then I move it if it hasn't already composted itself. My motto, "If it dies, it wasn't meant to live." But life inside the Cab not only has higher stakes, but is a new world.
Thank you for putting my eye back on 'sustainable' rather than 'fix it.' Still, I'm chuckling now, because I'm still going to want a fix. Best thing would have been to prevent the acidic soil in the first place. I'll be wrapping my brain around it while figuring out how to get Betty, my partner, to agree it is a good thing.
Happy trails!
Marion
Thank you for putting my eye back on 'sustainable' rather than 'fix it.' Still, I'm chuckling now, because I'm still going to want a fix. Best thing would have been to prevent the acidic soil in the first place. I'll be wrapping my brain around it while figuring out how to get Betty, my partner, to agree it is a good thing.
Happy trails!
Marion
GardenFaerie
New Member
Oh beautiful red potatoes! Yes, I harvested ours a while back and they were creamy and so amazing. I also made them different ways, but my favorite is first half boiled, then smashed with my hand, EVOO, fresh garlic, fresh parsley, coarse salt into a 350 degree oven for 30 minutes till brown.
So good.
So good.
erieflwr
Well-Known Member
PeeJay, whoo whoo! <<gasp, pant>> Nice place for a picnic. Wait up! <<catching my breath>> I just wrote a poem.
Dirt
is
Inert
Not haiku, but I think I am getting a grasp on dirt.
Ever try grilling peaches? And congrats on thunderstorms, sorta.
::taking a deep breath::
Great view, man. Lotsa great dirt.
Marion
PS I found a great dirt geek chart that I am itching to share with you so you can explain it.
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- #190
The calcium in either garden lime or eggshells is not rapidly bioavailable, Atax. In both substances the calcium is mostly CaCO3 (calcium carbonate.) The CaCO3 in lime has an edge over eggshells because of the smaller particle size. In the video the guy increases the bioavalability of the calcium by reacting it in an acidic aqueous solution (vinegar.) The free hydrogen ions in the acidic solution react with the carbonate (CO3). It fizzes as CO2 is released. (I left out the unstable carbonic acid intermediate in the reaction. That intermediate is important to the carbonate / bicarbonate buffer system - one of the most important buffering systems in biology.)The hydrogen that makes the vinegar acidic bonds to the oxygen to form water. With the CO3 diminished there is an increase of Ca2+ in the solution that is not associated with an anion. This calcium is very mobile. Vinegar is much more acidic than soil. In soil the reaction is quite slow, but is going on all the time. As it goes on, the plant removes the mobile calcium from the soil as needed, the calcium also bonds to other ions such as chloride.
I'm not quite sure why people are going on about pH up... This discussion has lost focus. This all got started because Marion wanted to know about recycling her soil (FFOF.) I recommended that she remove the roots and add two tablespoons (1/4 cup) of garden lime per gallon to increase the buffering capacity of the soil. If anyone does not understand how a buffer works I recommend you do an internet search because I've been at a BBQ all night, have had several beers, and many people have carefully written about buffers with more clarity than I will be able to in my slightly inebriated state.
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- #191
The reason why I never advise people to use limestone derivatives is cause it's not sustainable, and organic growing for me is not only about taste, health and happiness, but also about the awareness what comes from where and how. I agree that good soil mix doesn't need any PH manipulation, but if somebody just can't do it right cause one makes it too complicated, then some agents to up or down the PH come in handy. Most of the problems espwcially in indoor grows comes from urge to put shitloads of NPK and then to push it even more with fertilizers. It!s a little bit like breaking your car apart and then trying to put jet engine in hope it will fit under the mask
There is only so much limestone, true. However, I think that much of the calcium carbonate sold as garden lime is precipitated from sea water. I'm not aware of there being a big sustainability issue with calcium carbonate. It cycles pretty efficiently. Can you point me to documentation?
I totally agree with you about container gardeners overdoing it, Conradino. I like to call it "too much traffic in the soil."
pH up or down is just adding an acid or base to a solution. It is very useful if your water source is "out of range" either below 6.0 or above 7.5. I get concerned when I see people using inexpensive meters and wonder how often they calibrate them... If I was watering my plants with my tap water I would use pH down because the water has a pH that fluctuates between about 8.1 and 8.5. I don't drink it, and I won't give it to my high value plants.
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- #192
Hello PJ. I took my crushed eggshells & cannabis leaves and baked them for about a 1/2 hr. Had the kitchen smelling like a smoke out cypher. I'll be using it in my next soil mix.
That's a good soil amendment, Reg. It needs to cook in the soil for a good spell to become really effective, but it is good stuff. Charring the eggshells makes the phosphorous in them available.
OK, so I'll mix the dirt this weekend. The base will be ORGANIC VIGORO, with the eggshells & cannabis leaves, GROWOLOGY 1 (which is also organic), VERMICULITE, and a tablespoon of MYKOs. How do I go about cooking it & for how long?
Conradino23
Well-Known Member
@PeeJay, I don't know how much of agricultural lime is made of limestone and how much of seawater. I just cannot find the numbers quickly. Then, I definitely cannnot say where US producers are leaning.
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- #195
I had to look to see what I posted last night with my beer goggles on. There was nothing wrong with what anyone was saying about lots of organic matter, etc. The point is that the whole calcium/eggshells discussion sprang from a question about how to quickly and inexpensively recycle FFOF so it could be used again in short order. My answer was to add lime to increase buffering capacity and some perlite to improve drainage. The grower who asked the question will be using bottled nutrients to feed.
The organic container mix I use is posted on the first page of this journal.
The organic container mix I use is posted on the first page of this journal.
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- #196
BAR, mix ½ -3/4 cup per gallon of the egg shell/leafs into the soil in something like a Rubbermade tote. Remember that vermiculite and perlite are two different things. Vermiculite holds water in the soil. Perlite makes the soil drain better. Cannabis likes well drained soil so you don't want to add vermiculite. If you have perlite you want to put in about 1 quart per gallon. If you don't have perlite, then just leave the vermiculite out. You can add perlite to the mix now, or later. It doesn't matter if you have it now, really.
Once you mix the dirt and your amendment, sprinkle water on it and mix the water in. You want the mix to be slightly damp, not wet. Put the lid on the tote and let it sit for at least six weeks. Longer is better. Give the dirt a good stir once a week or so. With the lid on you shouldn't have to add more water. You may also add a couple of tablespoons of molasses to the water you use to moisten the soil to give the bacteria a good source of sugars and jumpstart their activity.
Once you mix the dirt and your amendment, sprinkle water on it and mix the water in. You want the mix to be slightly damp, not wet. Put the lid on the tote and let it sit for at least six weeks. Longer is better. Give the dirt a good stir once a week or so. With the lid on you shouldn't have to add more water. You may also add a couple of tablespoons of molasses to the water you use to moisten the soil to give the bacteria a good source of sugars and jumpstart their activity.
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- #197
PeeJay, whoo whoo! <<gasp, pant>> Nice place for a picnic. Wait up! <<catching my breath>> I just wrote a poem.
Dirt
is
Inert
Not haiku, but I think I am getting a grasp on dirt.
Ever try grilling peaches? And congrats on thunderstorms, sorta.
::taking a deep breath::
Great view, man. Lotsa great dirt.
Marion
PS I found a great dirt geek chart that I am itching to share with you so you can explain it.
Yup, I've grilled peaches. The thunderstorms are very welcome so long as they don't become hail storms. Post that chart here and we can have a look.
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- #198
A brief observation about mixing soil:
When interacting with other chefs, and so called chefs, the easiest way to spot a shoemaker is if they are excessively proud of their marinara or barbeque sauce. Those folks usually throw everything but the kitchen sink into a big pot and simmer it up creating a cacophony of competing elements that utterly confuses and confounds the taste buds.
A good mix has balance and finesse created by carefully combining select ingredients in appropriate ratios.
When interacting with other chefs, and so called chefs, the easiest way to spot a shoemaker is if they are excessively proud of their marinara or barbeque sauce. Those folks usually throw everything but the kitchen sink into a big pot and simmer it up creating a cacophony of competing elements that utterly confuses and confounds the taste buds.
A good mix has balance and finesse created by carefully combining select ingredients in appropriate ratios.
Peejay,
Sounds more like pastry to me. Exact ratios and what not. I thought a great chef makes great food by tasting and through the highly refined palate, he or she adjusts and creates the deliciousness. I remember reading your shoemaker marinara analogy in relation to soil mixing before and you're probably right, gives me a chuckle. Just saying...
Edit: so I will go taste my cooking soil mix over my morning cup of coffee, and see if it tastes like it needs some more guano. Lol
Sounds more like pastry to me. Exact ratios and what not. I thought a great chef makes great food by tasting and through the highly refined palate, he or she adjusts and creates the deliciousness. I remember reading your shoemaker marinara analogy in relation to soil mixing before and you're probably right, gives me a chuckle. Just saying...
Edit: so I will go taste my cooking soil mix over my morning cup of coffee, and see if it tastes like it needs some more guano. Lol
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- #200
Sounds like a plan, Corgie. It is ok to taste and spit. You don't have to swallow it.Similar threads
