SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall

[Danolo]

The ones I had mostly had localized soft spots but I had small beads of water from trying to get the last bit of oil. That is why I am so sure my problem was water.

If your problem is water, it must be suspended in the oil. It sure looks like whatever is causing it is uniformly distributed.

I never lnow

Yeah, I'm not sure either...

One thing I did notice, the mixture of EVOO, LL, and CCO, once mixed, resolved into a khaki coloured mix, rather than the usual black colour. I'm going to wait while she tests out the frozen caps to see how they work... and, when I make a new batch, I'll be doubly careful about water.

 

[SweetSue]

Yeah, I'm not sure either...

One thing I did notice, the mixture of EVOO, LL, and CCO, once mixed, resolved into a khaki coloured mix, rather than the usual black colour. I'm going to wait while she tests out the frozen caps to see how they work... and, when I make a new batch, I'll be doubly careful about water.

That khaki color means there's water in the mix. You just solved the mystery Danolo.

 

[SweetSue]

Hmmm... water in the mix... I dunno HOW water got into it..

How much water can cause this problem? IF these was water, it would only be a few drops, I think. I mixed up a total of 32 cc's of mixture and there could not have been more than 1 cc of water... probably less.

What about the Lecithin? Is it hygroscopic? I have a large bottle and I transfer some into an eyedropper bottle every few batches, and when its time to use it I put the smaller bottle in a warm water bath to help it move. Maybe, MAYBE, some got dripped into the mix.

She just took one of the frozen caps, so we'll see what affect that may have. She took it orally... she wasn't enthusiastic about shoving a cold, messy, capsule..

How is she tolerating the dose Danolo?

 

[Canyon]

Somewhere back in these pages is a post by neikodog that I haven't found yet that compared the lab testing of undecarbed bud with decarbed and processed oil. Most of the terpenes were destroyed in the process, even using the roasting bag. I'll ask him if he can share those, and any others he may have with us here.

I found this in an email from one of the dispensaries I am signed with.

"Dr. C's Lucid Solution
(Fractional Distillate),a distilled cannabis oil

What is it?
Fractional distillation is a process that separates the components of a complex mixture, such as a cannabis extract, into fractions based on differences in their individual boiling points. Distilling extracted cannabis oil allows us to separate the terpenes and cannabinoids, from the unwanted waxes, fats, sugars, and other non-volatile materials found in raw cannabis extracts. Fractional distillation produces an amber colored oil that is highly enriched for THC (~70% of total weight)

How much is it?
We will be selling this in 1/2g Syringes containing 350mg THC,
in Indica and Sativa, at $35

How do I use it?
This product is fully activated and ready to eat or to dab
(can also be used in certain vape pens)"



I have done some reading on fractional distillation. I also had a chance to checkout a setup that a research chemist built to separate crude oil he was going to analyze. He had around $2000 just in the scientific glass in the setup about 25 years ago.

Basically, you just boil off the oils at increasing temperatures and capture the vapor by condensing it with dry ice or a water jacket.

Interesting thoughts are floating around, more thinking and reading will be required. Or, it could be the low and slow dried GSC.

I never know

 

[SweetSue]

Danolo, was this a new batch of oil from a dispensary? If so, I'd suspect solvent in the oil before I'd think it was the small amount of water that possibly got in, but that color suggests water.

 

[SweetSue]

I found this in an email from one of the dispensaries I am signed with.

"Dr. C's Lucid Solution
(Fractional Distillate),a distilled cannabis oil

What is it?
Fractional distillation is a process that separates the components of a complex mixture, such as a cannabis extract, into fractions based on differences in their individual boiling points. Distilling extracted cannabis oil allows us to separate the terpenes and cannabinoids, from the unwanted waxes, fats, sugars, and other non-volatile materials found in raw cannabis extracts. Fractional distillation produces an amber colored oil that is highly enriched for THC (~70% of total weight)

How much is it?
We will be selling this in 1/2g Syringes containing 350mg THC,
in Indica and Sativa, at $35

How do I use it?
This product is fully activated and ready to eat or to dab
(can also be used in certain vape pens)"



I have done some reading on fractional distillation. I also had a chance to checkout a setup that a research chemist built to separate crude oil he was going to analyze. He had around $2000 just in the scientific glass in the setup about 25 years ago.

Basically, you just boil off the oils at increasing temperatures and capture the vapor by condensing it with dry ice or a water jacket.

Interesting thoughts are floating around, more thinking and reading will be required. Or, it could be the low and slow dried GSC.

I never know

Awk! $70 a gram for oil? Geez.......

Are you thinking about exploring fractional distillation Canyon? I'd say it's definately the low and slo GSC.

Time for me to break something out. Malawi it is.

 

[Canyon]

Awk! $70 a gram for oil? Geez.......

Are you thinking about exploring fractional distillation Canyon? I'd say it's definately the low and slo GSC.

Time for me to break something out. Malawi it is.

Concentrates started out at $100 a gram and have stabilized around $70 in NM. At 20% THC and allowing for some left behind it would take around 4 grams to make 1 gram of 70% concentrate.

Top shelf buds run $12 occasionally you will find a special strain offered at $14. So 48 to 56 dollars worth of buds verses 70 for the oil. There is value added I suppose.

I am curious enough to want to know more about the process to do more reading on it. The glass has to be very high grade because of the tempter differential of around 500 degrees F. Another glass part his had was a see-saw like peace that returns 3 out of 5 drops of liquid back into the heated flask with the other 2 collected.

I am not going to start buying parts tomorrow.

I never know

 

[Kicknitup1]

That khaki color means there's water in the mix. You just solved the mystery Danolo.

Really Sue? That's good to know. What about water turns it khaki? Is it because of the waste products that are soluble in water?

 

[VerdantSpires]

Thinking about the differences between sativa and indica, today.

I've heard it said that a basic distinction between sativa and indica strains is their myrcene content, that below some figure and the strain is sativa and above that figure the strain is indica. Fair enough.

But in an ealier post here (#4608) I cited graphs demonstrating how oven decarboxylation removes practically all the terpene content. So if we compare two strains having similar CBD and THC content, one a sativa and the other an indica, then after the decarb their terpene differences apparently become practically insignificant.

So how do we account for the big differences typically felt when medicating with a decarbed sativa compared with medicating with a decarbed indica, the two being chosen to have similar CBD and THC figures (for the purpose of this discussion, anyway)? With their terpenes gone, any difference must lie in the minor cannabinoids. It seems a remarkable coincidence, to me, that the property of having a myrcene content within a defined range should be consistent with having a set minor cannabinoid spectrum to give us this dependable difference. With the two having evolved in different regions of the world, it follows that there may be some surprising differences. So is it known which of the minor cannabinoids are predominately responsible for setting the consistent differences felt between sativa and indica? Perhaps tailoring an oil by boosting it with a few cannabinoid isolates (if obtainable) might bring about improvements, e.g., a lessening of adverse side-effects such as anxiety, couchlock, or paranoia?

Can there be any other explanation to account for the differences between sativa and indica?

On a separate note, with myrcene credited as helping cannabinoids to cross cell membranes, I wonder should it become standard practice to add supplementary myrcene in the preparation of medicinal cannabis oil? After all, the ability to cross cell membranes with ease is, I think, precisely what we want here, and the decarb has removed most of our myrcene.

Thanks.

 

[SweetSue]

Really Sue? That's good to know. What about water turns it khaki? Is it because of the waste products that are soluble in water?

Something about it becoming an emulsion. I'm vague on it, but I do know that the milliners is due to water in the mix. It's probably showing up like that because of the lecithin.

 

[SweetSue]

VerdantSpires, I love the way your mind works. Obviously something we don't yet understand is going on. This is a repost of Neiko's test results showing the effects of decarboxylation on the terpenes.

Before:

After:

 

[Oldbear]

I have not been able to find a source for food grade Myrcene essential oil. Please share if you know of one.

Thinking about the differences between sativa and indica, today.

I've heard it said that a basic distinction between sativa and indica strains is their myrcene content, that below some figure and the strain is sativa and above that figure the strain is indica. Fair enough.

But in an ealier post here (#4608) I cited graphs demonstrating how oven decarboxylation removes practically all the terpene content. So if we compare two strains having similar CBD and THC content, one a sativa and the other an indica, then after the decarb their terpene differences apparently become practically insignificant.

So how do we account for the big differences typically felt when medicating with a decarbed sativa compared with medicating with a decarbed indica, the two being chosen to have similar CBD and THC figures (for the purpose of this discussion, anyway)? With their terpenes gone, any difference must lie in the minor cannabinoids. It seems a remarkable coincidence, to me, that the property of having a myrcene content within a defined range should be consistent with having a set minor cannabinoid spectrum to give us this dependable difference. With the two having evolved in different regions of the world, it follows that there may be some surprising differences. So is it known which of the minor cannabinoids are predominately responsible for setting the consistent differences felt between sativa and indica? Perhaps tailoring an oil by boosting it with a few cannabinoid isolates (if obtainable) might bring about improvements, e.g., a lessening of adverse side-effects such as anxiety, couchlock, or paranoia?

Can there be any other explanation to account for the differences between sativa and indica?

On a separate note, with myrcene credited as helping cannabinoids to cross cell membranes, I wonder should it become standard practice to add supplementary myrcene in the preparation of medicinal cannabis oil? After all, the ability to cross cell membranes with ease is, I think, precisely what we want here, and the decarb has removed most of our myrcene.

Thanks.

 

[Danolo]

Oh man, so much happens in 24 hours...you guys contribute SO much info... Thanks

An update on my Bio Bomb problem:

First, I concur that the problem is probably water in the mix. After thinking about how it got there, I see two possibilities:
a) I washed my dosing syringe in hot water, and I may not have "rinsed" it well with olive oil.
b)I soaked the two CCO syringes in warm water before using, and in squirting it into my mixing bowl, there may have been a drop or two on the end.

BUT, that's not a lot of water... like at the most maybe 12 drops? Would so little water have caused this khaki colour?

But never mind, I've learned a valuable lesson... not only keep things clean, but also dry!

 

[Danolo]

So, now here's what happened with the "bad" batch... we froze the poor shrivelled capsules and my wife swallowed one and then another one 12 hours later...no change in her symptoms, so far...then at 5AM today, she swallowed a "good" 15:1, and THEN at 10AM today she was filled with pain... full blown Rheumatoid Arthritis symptoms : tingly, broken glass, stabbing jolts, swelling....
She immediately shoved one of the "good" 15:1 capsules and within 1/2 hour she was almost back to where she was.

I was away from home... making a purchase at my local favourite store so when I got back around noon, I immediately baked her cake, and she's fine now...

So, conclusions:
a) the frozen bio bombs recipe was for 15:1 and when eaten are probably not as effective. I don't think she's too enthusiastic about shoving a frozen capsule..
b)eating a bio bomb is not as effective as shoving it.

c) for ongoing treatment of her condition, we will continue to use bio bomb capsules, shoved, and she's going to have a solid week at 15:1 before we consider lowering her dose.
d) I'm going to get a brownie mix for the frozen bio bombs... I'll squeeze out the oil from each cap. I'll report back on how they taste.

We keep learning...

I'd be happy to hear your comments...

 

[Kicknitup1]

I've heard it said that a basic distinction between sativa and indica strains is their myrcene content, that below some figure and the strain is sativa and above that figure the strain is indica. Fair enough.

A lot of things to think about there! I'm guessing the myrcene is something that is consistently higher or lower depending upon either Indica or Sativa. But there must be other distinctions also or all edibles would feel the same. I've never given it any thought. I always figured Indica had more cbd. Thanks for the insights. Yep a lot to consider.

 

[Canyon]

Thinking about the differences between sativa and indica, today.

I've heard it said that a basic distinction between sativa and indica strains is their myrcene content, that below some figure and the strain is sativa and above that figure the strain is indica. Fair enough.

But in an ealier post here (#4608) I cited graphs demonstrating how oven decarboxylation removes practically all the terpene content. So if we compare two strains having similar CBD and THC content, one a sativa and the other an indica, then after the decarb their terpene differences apparently become practically insignificant.

So how do we account for the big differences typically felt when medicating with a decarbed sativa compared with medicating with a decarbed indica, the two being chosen to have similar CBD and THC figures (for the purpose of this discussion, anyway)? With their terpenes gone, any difference must lie in the minor cannabinoids. It seems a remarkable coincidence, to me, that the property of having a myrcene content within a defined range should be consistent with having a set minor cannabinoid spectrum to give us this dependable difference. With the two having evolved in different regions of the world, it follows that there may be some surprising differences. So is it known which of the minor cannabinoids are predominately responsible for setting the consistent differences felt between sativa and indica? Perhaps tailoring an oil by boosting it with a few cannabinoid isolates (if obtainable) might bring about improvements, e.g., a lessening of adverse side-effects such as anxiety, couchlock, or paranoia?

Can there be any other explanation to account for the differences between sativa and indica?

On a separate note, with myrcene credited as helping cannabinoids to cross cell membranes, I wonder should it become standard practice to add supplementary myrcene in the preparation of medicinal cannabis oil? After all, the ability to cross cell membranes with ease is, I think, precisely what we want here, and the decarb has removed most of our myrcene.

Thanks.

VerdantSpires,
Several of us (three for now) have a project started that will attempt to answer some of your questions. It is underway now though most of what has been accomplished has been logistics, and gathering equipment. With luck we should have some more information around the end of this week to post.

Your test are from PSI Labs. Do you know if they publish test results to the public, or any idea who does. I found one lab does a while back and one that does not. We are going to need to find some oil sample test results soon to make some decisions about some tests we have planed.

I have my daughter and grandson here for about another week while they have some repair/remodel work on their home done. That leaves me with less time than I would like for a while. So, if you are aware of any information or ideas please post.

Water and oil
There was a time when I did repairs on boat engines. The way they were cooled tended to cause cracks in the cast-iron letting water into the oil. That oil was gray or brown. At the time I thought the whipping motion of a running engine and the detergents in the oil were the cause of the change. Anyway, it does not take much water suspended in oil to change the color of the oil.

The more I learn the less i know

 

[SweetSue]

I've heard it said that a basic distinction between sativa and indica strains is their myrcene content, that below some figure and the strain is sativa and above that figure the strain is indica. Fair enough.

A lot of things to think about there! I'm guessing the myrcene is something that is consistently higher or lower depending upon either Indica or Sativa. But there must be other distinctions also or all edibles would feel the same. I've never given it any thought. I always figured Indica had more cbd. Thanks for the insights. Yep a lot to consider.

Indicas are actually higher in THC, which is why they get recommended so often as pain meds. They also have lots of myrcene, which knocks you out. The two effects work beautifully for pain management, particularly as night meds.

 

[weenmeoff]

Making some oil and wanted to share some pics of the quick wash.

Too dark to see through

Had to put the jar right in front of a light, this jar is tinted light blue and still has a real nice Green color.

 

[SweetSue]

Had to put the jar right in front of a light, this jar is tinted light blue and still has a real nice Green color.

Sweet ween. At first I thought "Too green...." then realized it was through blue glass. Perfect. You're getting to be an old hand at this.

 

[Kicknitup1]

"The most abundant terpenes in cannabis are myrcene, pinene, limonene, linalool, eucalyptol and caryophyllene, with the variation between them dictating a strain’s distinctive smell. Steephill Labs in California have even gone as far as suggesting that the difference between Cannabis Sativa and Indica is down to its terpene content saying, “if a sample has over 0.5% myrcene, it will have indica, or ‘couch-lock’ effects. If a sample has less than 0.5%, it will have the soaring sativa effect.”

I believe that was the stat VerdantSpires was referring to. I really don't get why terpenes are lost. The standard decarb temps are below their melting point. They must degrade before they "melt".