The Comprehensive

[Jasonlee247]

The strain I'm growing is feminzed White Widow from GreenHouse Seeds. The original plant from seed was harvested early '09 and I've been taking clones from clones ever since. I think I'm around the seventh or eighth generation now and they seem to be getting better with every generation

I'd be carefull. (This is very strain dependant), but taking clones of clones, etc..., will drift genetically even without visible strain. I've never taken that many clones from clones, (I use bonsai tek for my moms to slow down the process dramatically) but I have seen it happen, and it's never good. You seem educated enough to know when you'll have issues, so I wont lecture you. (God knows I don't wanna end up like those thrips. lol But you know what I'm talking about I think. IMO you might want to soon consider loosening the Sphinkter (spelling I know) and getting new seed. I know you don't have the 'time' but if you get a 10pack of good solid breed stock (like TRUE WW) why not take the time to inbreed them to F1? think about how many seeds you;ll have! I've had seeds last OVER 5 years, if stored correctly, and I could almost guarentee that a plant from seed (although maybe a couple weeks behind) Would generate a more potent mother than a 8th gen clone mother. Like I said, depending on the strain and conditions, but the drift is still there. I would think that your about on that edge of genetic 'drift' now. How many more 'generations' of clones from clones do you think on going?

P.S. I'm just saying this for conversation purposes, and don;t intend to step on your toes. I'm wondering your thoughts on this? My opinion only!

 

[Bandit420]

I'd be carefull. (This is very strain dependant), but taking clones of clones, etc..., will drift genetically even without visible strain. I've never taken that many clones from clones, (I use bonsai tek for my moms to slow down the process dramatically) but I have seen it happen, and it's never good. You seem educated enough to know when you'll have issues, so I wont lecture you. (God knows I don't wanna end up like those thrips. lol But you know what I'm talking about I think. IMO you might want to soon consider loosening the Sphinkter (spelling I know) and getting new seed. I know you don't have the 'time' but if you get a 10pack of good solid breed stock (like TRUE WW) why not take the time to inbreed them to F1? think about how many seeds you;ll have! I've had seeds last OVER 5 years, if stored correctly, and I could almost guarentee that a plant from seed (although maybe a couple weeks behind) Would generate a more potent mother than a 8th gen clone mother. Like I said, depending on the strain and conditions, but the drift is still there. I would think that your about on that edge of genetic 'drift' now. How many more 'generations' of clones from clones do you think on going?

P.S. I'm just saying this for conversation purposes, and don;t intend to step on your toes. I'm wondering your thoughts on this? My opinion only!

I hear you on the drift and I'll be one of the first to say that yeah it is strain dependant but there's alot of myths out there about cloning from clones. The myths exist because some growers are too scared to cross a threshhold beyond a certain point because of what they've "heard"

Three things would have to happen for me to change my mind on this topic.

My plants would need to lose potency, go hermie, or stretch so bad the yield is affected. None of which they have done. In fact potency has increased as the generations progress. The internodes have also been tightening up rather than stretching and no hermies so far.

If any of thses problems pop up I have a reserve of more feminzied WW, feminized AK48 and Sensi Star seeds. Plus i just ordered some feminized Yumboldt 47 seeds. The way I grow, I dont need alot of seeds. Five feminzied seeds of any one strain is more than enough for me.

Another thing I do that others definately dont is when I start a plant from seed I'm looking for one thing to happen. I wait for the plant to produce it's first solid branch to take the first clone. That clone will be my mother, not the plant started from seed. Doing this has always given me the stronger Mother over the seed plant.

As for how many generations will I go? I dont know yet. The strain will have to collapse or I get bored and start a new strain. The furthest I've gone is 14 generations. My Uncle ran original Skunk #1 using the sensi technique for 3 years and over 30 generations before restarting new seed stock.

I dont know if my thoery on this is fact or not but I also believe in taking large clones. I believe that the bigger and healthier bottom branch clones have all parts of their dna to continue the strain without any defects. I feel this keeps the genetic code intact regardless of how many clones are taken from other clones.

BTW- If I had a picture of the original mother, you would be astonished at how much better her great,great,great,great,great,great,great grand daughter looks compared to her.
This old Widow is getting better with age. Kinda like fine wine Brother!

Pictured above is a 8th generation WW mother. Below are buds from her 7th generation mom.

When I get results like these, it's hard for me to change my technique!

 

[Bandit420]

This week I dont even know where to begin for my journal entry. So much is going on my head is spinning.
Instead of cola pics this week I'm going to show the asylum that is my grow room. But first let me get everybody including myself updated on what's going down.

First thing is the great thrip war of 2010 is over and I have triumphed! Doktor Doom and Jungle Rain Clean Leaf did the job to perfection! The plants still have some residual effects from the thrip assault but they will prevail and produce a quality yield.

Next some more tweaking of the air cooling system had to happen. Luckily we were hit with two very warm days that gave me an idea of what the Summer had in store. The five gallon cooler and ice began to struggle keeping things cool. The cooler has been changed out for a 30 gallon trash barrel that I still need to wrap with insulation and a Hydrofarm/ActiveAqua 1/10th hp chiller is now cooling the reservoir.

The veg box has been refitted with a 90cfm Hydrofarm blower and now it runs cool as a cucumber

I've also added the Orangeblood Plant Diagnostic Center. This is basically an old tv/vcr combo I got at a pawn shop for $20 and an Eyeclops video microscope. The whole set up is kinda cheesy but it helps me get a close up look at bugs and ripening crystals. It's too powerful at 200x mag so I need to find one alot less powerful in the 60x range

I ordered a packet of new seed stock several days ago and recieved a tracking number on them yesterday. Hopefully they dont get intercepted. Typically I've had good luck with orders out of the UK but you never know. The new strain will be Yumboldt 47. 90% Indica and 10% Sativa, it is a cross between pure AK47 female and pure Yumboldt male. It has a 20% THC content and should fit right in to the routine. Hopefully it's genetics are stable and it wont give me any fits or hassles.

On to the pictures!

The new chiller

The new chiller and resrvoir taking care of the heat

The OBPDC LOL!

Vegatation Station

250 watt MH with built in ballast and a 90cfm blower running cooler than cfls!

 

[StinkFinger]

The new chiller

Hey OB.

I think that's one of my next purchases. I'll be looking forward to your feedback after a couple of weeks time.

Thanks man!
SF

 

[Bandit420]

Hey OB.

I think that's one of my next purchases. I'll be looking forward to your feedback after a couple of weeks time.

Thanks man!
SF

I can give you feedback right now Brother! It kicks ass! This thing took 80 degree water and dropped it to 60 in two hours. The temps in my bloom hut were at 84 and right now they're at 73. The system is working exactly how I want it to work. Cools the joint down and cuts off until it gets to 80 again. Woo Freakin' Hoo!

 

[StinkFinger]

I can give you feedback right now Brother! It kicks ass! This thing took 80 degree water and dropped it to 60 in two hours. The temps in my bloom hut were at 84 and right now they're at 73. The system is working exactly how I want it to work. Cools the joint down and cuts off until it gets to 80 again. Woo Freakin' Hoo!

Ok, then one, perhaps two, really fast follow up questions, as far as sizing. That's a 1/10hp? And whats the res capacity your using, how much agua? 2 hours to lower temp...sounds really efficient.

Does that chiller unit put off a bunch of heat?

Thanks Bro.
SF

 

[Bandit420]

Ok, then one, perhaps two, really fast follow up questions, as far as sizing. That's a 1/10hp? And whats the res capacity your using, how much agua? 2 hours to lower temp...sounds really efficient.

Does that chiller unit put off a bunch of heat?

Thanks Bro.
SF

Yeah it's 1/10hp and it's rated for a 50-400 liter reservoir. I'm using a 30 gallon reservoir filled to capacity right now but I'm thinking I can drop it down to 20-25 and get the water even colder. It needs a pump with a minimum 250gph rating and I'm using a 350gph for faster push thru the Ice Box heat exchanger in the duct work.

It is blowing a draft of hot air out of the back. I have a ceiling fan in the room to disipate the warm air but I'm also considering putting a fan on it or use a cheap inline duct blower with an hvac box on the back of the chiller to pull the warm air away and exaust it out of the room completely. Between the cool air it's making, the room exaust, and the ceiling fan the warm air is not a problem right now.

Other nice features are a titanium heat exchanger. Does'nt get any better than titanium for that and it only uses 150 watts!
Being made by Hydrofarm it was really designed with the grower in mind rather than the aquarium enthusiast. Given the right water capacity, it can pull the temps down to 39 degrees! Alot of the aquarium chillers stop at 55. It also has a temperature memory so it can be put on a timer!

So far this thing is rockin'! It's doing the job of an AC with a small fraction of the power that a portable or window unit AC uses.

 

[MisterPeabody]

I can give you feedback right now Brother! It kicks ass! This thing took 80 degree water and dropped it to 60 in two hours. The temps in my bloom hut were at 84 and right now they're at 73. The system is working exactly how I want it to work. Cools the joint down and cuts off until it gets to 80 again. Woo Freakin' Hoo!

Same deal I went through. Once a got a grip on the reservoir temp, most of my problems went away. Now, it's just a matter of dialing things in. That 10th hp unit will save you MUCH needless heartache. Too Cool!

 

[Bandit420]

The Hash Garden

This garden is built from spare parts I have accumulated over the years and it flowers extra clones I have but dont want to discard.

Lighting the 2'x3'x6' grow tent is two 150 watt HPS lights with built in ballasts. Two 6" fans push air up thru the top where it is exausted by a 4" inline duct blower.

The pots used here are 2 gallon ribbed nursery pots filled with pure Happy Frog. They are being fed the Fox Farm Trio nute line up with tap water.

The care taker is a novice grower and I've made it as inexpensive and easy to operate garden as possible. His reward for his efforts will be the colas and I will keep everything else for making bubble hash.

The pic below is the garden one week into flowering

 

[Lil Neutrino]

I've had seeds last OVER 5 years, if stored correctly...

Shoot, I've had seeds last over five years stored incorrectly lol

orange, glad to hear you got rid of those little bastards (I refuse to call them by their name). I stuck mine in the freezer for a few days and promptly disposed of the clone and washed the tray out with antibacterial soap. 0 for 6 on clones lol...no biggie, probably gonna reveg the mother if not just to try cloning again.

Nice setup you have too...I like the OBPDC and your resourcefulness! Kinda makes me regret tossing my 13" TV/VCR combo lol. +rep if I can

 

[Bandit420]

Nice setup you have too...I like the OBPDC and your resourcefulness! Kinda makes me regret tossing my 13" TV/VCR combo lol. +rep if I can[/QUOTE]

Thanks Lil N!
I'm working on something right now that's gonna make you and the 420 community trip on pretty hard and make y'all laugh. It's going to be special and I'm almost 100% it will not only work but be awesome at what it does.

It's been inspired by members of the 420 community like Pit Viper, Roseman, OBXgardener along with many others and will be dedicated to them. I'm looking to have it ready for 4/20 and post it on that day.
A one word hint- R2D2

 

[Lil Neutrino]

You're making a talking trash can with colored lights in it????

 

[StinkFinger]

 

[Bandit420]

I built this contraption out of an 11"x16" plastic bin, some solid 4 inch duct work and a 20cfm Dayton fan. It slides onto the back of the chiller and evacuates the warm air the chiller creates.
I've made some more modifications on the chilling system.
The barrel has been wrapped with insulation and Saran wrap plastic wrap and the reservoir has been set at 18 gallons. When the lights are off the chiller pulls the water temps down to 50 degrees and it rises to 67 degrees when the lights are on and warm outside air is being pushed thru the Ice Box. On an 80 degree outside day, the air being injected into the room is 64 degrees. The system seems be on about a 3 minute on 3 minute off cycle. The grow room temps bounce up and down from 73 degrees to 80 degrees.

The garden

 

[MisterPeabody]

You're making a talking trash can with colored lights in it????

ROFL!!!

Look at the bright side(no pun intended)...if it don't work we can use it as a nativity scene on skid row...give em their own Christmas tree they could relate to...just a thought

 

[Bandit420]

ROFL!!!

Look at the bright side(no pun intended)...if it don't work we can use it as a nativity scene on skid row...give em their own Christmas tree they could relate to...just a thought

You're making a talking trash can with colored lights in it????

LMFAO! You guys are gonna freak when you see this thing. I cant stop laughing while I work on it.

 

[StinkFinger]

I cant stop laughing while I work on it.

PUT THE BOWL DOWN SON!

Chop...Chop...

4/20 is coming.

SF

 

[Greenthumb422]

This is the crude yet very effective cooling system for my hut. The 465cfm blower pulls fresh air in and divides it up between the veg station, bloom station, and main bloom light. The Ice Box does not have it's cooler hooked up right now since it's Winter but you can see how it's inserted into the side of the hut like a window unit. As you can imagine, I move ALOT of fresh air thru my garden to beat the heat. CO2 is not used in this garden because it would be a waste.

Eff Crude bro..Outstanding!!! Sometimes...many times...MOST of the time Crude is the way to go!! Good work...Still browsing ur posts

 

[Greenthumb422]

Having about a square foot of extra space in my hut I decided I wanted to grow some berries or something in there. I found a 10 pack of bare strawberry roots at Walmart for three dollars a couple weeks ago and look at 'em now! 1 berry has popped out and it looks like several more are on the way. Berries in February, how cool is that!
This little side venture got me thinking. Does anybody use or have tried growing basil, rosemary or tyme in their indoor garden as a means of odor control?
I use a carbon filter at the end of my exaust which does an excellent job on out going odor but the 3 weeks prior to a plant being ready for harvest it smells like a skunk baking fruit pies or something in the room. I was wondering if fragrant herbs have ever been used to successfully neutralize those odors in a grow room.

That's my Kinda guy!!! Growing other stuff too!@! Very cool!!! Check out my Cuban mint set up! I.e. Mojito mint

 

[Greenthumb422]

Made a supply house run today and got a new toy for the ladies!
This is one of those CO2 boost buckets that uses the mushroom compost exausted thru an air pump and onto the plants. It seems simple enough and alot cleaner than a sugar/yeast concoction.
I'm hoping for some increase in yields but I'm not expecting too much. With the air system dialed in better than it ever has been, the exaust blower runs less frequently so I thought I could get some CO2 in there to do some business.
The only other two ways I can consider using gas is thru a tank set up which would be a money pit for me or to seal it all up and go for the bad ass water cooled generator from Hydro Innovations but I think that machine would be way too much machismo for my small farm.
So I ended up going with this set up. Start up cost is $135 and I have to buy another bucket every 90 days for $110. The cool thing about my supply house is I can sell them my used gear I dont use anymore so my actual start up cost for this was only $23!
If I dont notice an improvement in my garden with this first run the whole idea will be scrapped and I'll go back to the drawing board for a comprehensive CO2 application.

I use Boost...works grizeat!! Haven't ever tested for ppm, but The results speak for themselves!! I like you Not in a homosexual, gay way