The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It

[Jon]

Outdoor 10 gallon Purple Kush Rootball.
Part 2.

Pyjamas stripped.

This is the mulch layer.

Shakedown.

More shakedown.

The bottom. Square like the milk crate.

As shaken out as I can get without water.

So this is why I prefer to sprout directly into my final pots and never up-pot.See those big white roots?

Here is the solo cup rootball that they are attached to. It never fully integrates with the entire pot, it just sends arteries out to the next layer where the new soil is and featherdusters that outer ring, but if you sprout from seed in a big pot, the feather dusters are tapped directly into the tap root, and you get more feathers.

Those layers, thats a bottleneck.

Here she comes.

Theres the solo cup.

Still some good roots though.

Wow. I keep telling you guys - everything I knew is bullshit. Case in point here. Lmao. There should be a warning posted at the beginning of this thread for newbies, especially those coming from a chem nute reality - something along the lines of, “Do not enter unless you are prepared to drop everything you think you know and basically start from scratch.”

 

[Sparkey224]

@Sparkey224 Too funny Lol hows things?

Great brother, just got done playing a golf tournament with my wifes company.
Couldn't smoke a J out there so I'm rolling one now.. 12 hours during the day we no weed is torture..lol..

Just got done rolling a fat ass J..

 

[Gee64]

Wow. I keep telling you guys - everything I knew is bullshit. Case in point here. Lmao. There should be a warning posted at the beginning of this thread for newbies, especially those coming from a chem nute reality - something along the lines of, “Do not enter unless you are prepared to drop everything you think you know and basically start from scratch.”

Its just a different Rabbit Hole. If I went synthetic I would have to do that but in the other direction.

 

[Gee64]

What temp are they set at? Or are they adjustable?

Adjustable. They are at 78 now, hoping for a 74 soil temp but will take a 72.

I will temp the soil tomorrow and see how its looking. The leaves look cold.

I may have to move my water reservoir and dripper pump into the tent to prewarm the water.

 

[Lerugged]

Yes sir. I think it's calcuim carbonate. Have a great day

 

[Keffka]

Great brother, just got done playing a golf tournament with my wifes company.
Couldn't smoke a J out there so I'm rolling one now.. 12 hours during the day we no weed is torture..lol..

Just got done rolling a fat ass J..

Holy crap.. It’s been years since I’ve gone 12 hours without smoking. Being a disabled veteran gives you a huge amount of leeway with others so I smoke everywhere I go and no one says shit because they don’t really understand PTSD and no one wants to tell a veteran no in America

“Is he HIGH?!!”
“He has PTSD from the Army so we..”
“Ohhhh ok, never mind.. Excuse me sir let me tell you about the time I almost joined the army”


You must’ve gotten baked.. what a good way to end the night

 

[Gee64]

The good news is the heating mats have them picking up speed. The leaves are rising and although still water plump, the change is happening.

The bad news is this plant, the front right one, doesn't eat light like the others. Its running a fever.

The other 3 are 3 degrees under room temp and in theory I could go above the 950 PPFD that they are at, but I had to lower the sick one down to get it to less PPFD as it is 1 degree over room temp. The tallest in the back right corner is at 1030 PPFD.

 

[Gee64]

The sick one is at 850PPFD and in 10 minutes it regulated its leaf temp to 2 degrees below room temp. Im impressed! You go Lil Buddy!

 

[Gee64]

I checked the soil temps and they were 68F-69F in the 4 pots. I use my soil ph pen to check temps. Surprisingly my soil PH has dropped to 5.8. Usually its always 6.2.

The only change is I added Sea Soil as a mulch. I added it the same day my light died. The plants have never recovered from what I thought was the light fiasco. I wonder if it's the mulch.

Tomorrow I will PH the bag of mulch when lights come on. If its low I guess I remove the mulch.

I use it outside and it works fantastic, but maybe it doesn't jive with my soil recipe.

The plants seem to be getting too much nitrogen. The fish in the sea soil mulch is about the only place I can think of that it came from. Its crashing my brix. They are down to 10.

Ughhh...

 

[Jon]

Its just a different Rabbit Hole. If I went synthetic I would have to do that but in the other direction.

Lol. Appreciate that Gee, but I suspect with your knowledge base that going synth wouldn’t be particularly challenging. If I can do it half decently you’d crush synths. Lmao

 

[Jon]

Adjustable. They are at 78 now, hoping for a 74 soil temp but will take a 72.

I will temp the soil tomorrow and see how its looking. The leaves look cold.

I may have to move my water reservoir and dripper pump into the tent to prewarm the water.

Is 74 always your target soil temp? Is that because that’s the temp the roots and myco like best?

 

[Jon]

Holy crap.. It’s been years since I’ve gone 12 hours without smoking. Being a disabled veteran gives you a huge amount of leeway with others so I smoke everywhere I go and no one says shit because they don’t really understand PTSD and no one wants to tell a veteran no in America

“Is he HIGH?!!”
“He has PTSD from the Army so we..”
“Ohhhh ok, never mind.. Excuse me sir let me tell you about the time I almost joined the army”


You must’ve gotten baked.. what a good way to end the night

Ha! Try going through an airport in a wheelchair, with every third person coming up to thank you for your service! People are funny about vets and those they perceive as vets. People in wheelchairs around my age are often taken for veterans and lots of times people just assume and don’t even ask! I can’t tell you how many times I’ve said no, I didn’t serve, but great thought I’m sure a real vet would love to hear. Or something like that. Us wheelies get the same kind of slack - I leave outdoor bar dinners and wheel out to the parking lot and just get high without thinking twice about it. If it’s some sort of reverse engineered slack given to people others perceive as “having a good excuse” and we are allowed to do whatever we want - hey I’m okay with that. Lmao!

 

[Jon]

Ha! Try going through an airport in a wheelchair, with every third person coming up to thank you for your service! People are funny about vets and those they perceive as vets. People in wheelchairs around my age are often taken for veterans and lots of times people just assume and don’t even ask! I can’t tell you how many times I’ve said no, I didn’t serve, but great thought I’m sure a real vet would love to hear. Or something like that. Us wheelies get the same kind of slack - I leave outdoor bar dinners and wheel out to the parking lot and just get high without thinking twice about it. If it’s some sort of reverse engineered slack given to people others perceive as “having a good excuse” and we are allowed to do whatever we want - hey I’m okay with that. Lmao!

Btw - @Keffka - I know you won’t misinterpret, but just in case, I am by no means comparing myself to any veteran. I have ultimate respect for you guys and would never do that. I have no illusions that I ever did anything as important as that, all I was doing was commenting on the slack people give to those they perceive as somehow “compromised,” or whatever.

 

[Jon]

The good news is the heating mats have them picking up speed. The leaves are rising and although still water plump, the change is happening.

The bad news is this plant, the front right one, doesn't eat light like the others. Its running a fever.

The other 3 are 3 degrees under room temp and in theory I could go above the 950 PPFD that they are at, but I had to lower the sick one down to get it to less PPFD as it is 1 degree over room temp. The tallest in the back right corner is at 1030 PPFD.

So you adjust the plant height to be wherever you need to be to be at 2 degrees leaf temp difference, and take whatever par number you have at that point? And in theory you could increase par (and thus leaf temperature) on the ones 3 degree below cuz they can come up a degree to ideal?

This is kind of like using the light more as a temperature control device isn’t it?

Another question: the difference between 3 degrees below or exactly at 2 where you want or 1 below air temp - what kind of effects in the plant are we talking about with that small of a difference? Besides that it tells you whether to raise or lower a plant? How bad would it be if you were constantly at 3 degrees below, for example? Vs a plant that was kept at 2 degrees below the whole time?

 

[Gee64]

So you adjust the plant height to be wherever you need to be to be at 2 degrees leaf temp difference, and take whatever par number you have at that point? And in theory you could increase par (and thus leaf temperature) on the ones 3 degree below cuz they can come up a degree to ideal?

This is kind of like using the light more as a temperature control device isn’t it?

Another question: the difference between 3 degrees below or exactly at 2 where you want or 1 below air temp - what kind of effects in the plant are we talking about with that small of a difference? Besides that it tells you whether to raise or lower a plant? How bad would it be if you were constantly at 3 degrees below, for example? Vs a plant that was kept at 2 degrees below the whole time?

I have never actually tried to run a single plant warmer, but I have run a single plant cooler, which puts it farther away from the light its whole life. It is a lesser plant all round as you would expect.

I have never used PPFD as a guide before, always VPD and leaf temp, so you teaching me PPFD is also a factor now too, and I am finding that by using VPD to determine light intensity I am ending up right about where you said I would want my PPFD.

Here is an interesting observation. The tallest pheno is closest to the light and at 1030 PPFD and could handle 1 degree more of light, the 2 mid height phenos are at 950 PPFD and could handle 1 degree more light, shortest pheno is at 850 PPFD and can't handle any more light.

It may be coincidence, but if they were all on the floor then the tallest pheno would be handling the most PPFD properly, the 2 middle height ones would be handling the lesser amount of PPFD because they are shorter properly, and the shortest pheno which would be farthest from the light and at the lowest PPFD, would be handling the lowest PPFD properly.

In my tent right now, the taller the pheno the more light it can handle to get to the 2 degree differential. Its like height amongst phenos dictates the phenos ability to handle light or, the amount of PPFD a plant can handle dictates its phenotypical expression.

Either tall phenos can handle more light, or phenos that can handle more light grow taller to get it.

Pretty cool. I must watch this over a few grows. Adding PPFD measurements to the mix is very educational. Thanks @Jon .

Later today I will adjust all heights and then get my leaf temps back to a uniform 2 degree differential. My canopy won't be even in height, but it will be even by leaf temps, then we can watch and see which plants do what.

I'm pretty sure I need to strip the mulch off too.

 

[Gee64]

This is just a guess, but for the 3 phenos that are 3 degrees under on leaf temp, if I were to increase light intensity to get them back to a 2 degree leaf temp differential, I would guestimate that to be 1050-ish PPFD for the 2 mid height ones, and 1100-ish for the taller one.

@Jon, do you think thats too much?
They are sativas, which are said to be able to handle more light intensity.

Convert 1050 and 1100 to DLI, and its 45 and 47.5 DLI, which is right in the recommended flower zone, so these 3, VPD, PPFD, and DLI, they seem tied together.

I am a huge fan of VPD and I base it off the 2 degree differencial to tell me light height. These numbers seem to substantiate its value. I think an IR gun could possibly be a very important tool.

The only difference so far between my old light and the new one is that before I would be 18" from the light right now, and with this one at about 75% I am 34" from the light.

I don't know if that will be better or worse or the same.

Hopefully this light will be a more uniform PPFD deeper into the canopy as stretch happens.

I will at some point probably have to start turning the light down as they stretch closer, in order to hold the 2 degree differential.

I suppose I could move the shorty back up, but I think its shorter for a reason. I don't want to hermie it.

 

[Gee64]

Is 74 always your target soil temp? Is that because that’s the temp the roots and myco like best?

Its because I can't really get it higher than 74. In the heat of summer I can get it to 76 and thats usually the best grow of the year. You know, the grow I lost with the 1st light dying, that one.

I'm not sure if its soil temps, air temps, or a combination, but naturally warm weather is their favorite.

 

[Gee64]

This is kind of like using the light more as a temperature control device isn't it?

Light IS a temperature control device.

Think skin temp in the sun vs in the shade.

Partial shade is usually the comfort zone.

So light intensity will dictate leaf temp, so to answer your question, Yes.

 

[Gee64]

You gotta admit, using your PPFD values, or my VPD system, or the internets recommended DLI, and seeing all 3 line up is pretty cool.

I wonder what PPFD will max at using the 2 degree rule. I never had a way to measure it before other than every time I rebuilt my soil I could get a little closer to my old light to get the 2 degree difference. 1st run was 18", last run eas 11".

The light may have been slowly getting dimmer too over the years.

 

[Keffka]

Ha! Try going through an airport in a wheelchair, with every third person coming up to thank you for your service! People are funny about vets and those they perceive as vets. People in wheelchairs around my age are often taken for veterans and lots of times people just assume and don’t even ask! I can’t tell you how many times I’ve said no, I didn’t serve, but great thought I’m sure a real vet would love to hear. Or something like that. Us wheelies get the same kind of slack - I leave outdoor bar dinners and wheel out to the parking lot and just get high without thinking twice about it. If it’s some sort of reverse engineered slack given to people others perceive as “having a good excuse” and we are allowed to do whatever we want - hey I’m okay with that. Lmao!

First of all, calling yourself a wheelie cracked me up, it’s a similar form of darkish humor veterans use. No need to pretend this isn’t my reality, and embracing it like that just makes it that much easier to deal with.

People feel bad because they don’t understand. They think “oh my god I can’t even imagine what it would be like” and it triggers some weird look the other way feelings. Whereas you and I know, once you’ve adjusted, it is what it is, what am I gonna do? Let it control me? Pshh.. nope I’m just gonna go get high in the parking lot

It’s funny because while they’re feeling bad for us, I am feeling bad for them still being so hung up on weird stuff that doesn’t really matter.

Btw - @Keffka - I know you won’t misinterpret, but just in case, I am by no means comparing myself to any veteran. I have ultimate respect for you guys and would never do that. I have no illusions that I ever did anything as important as that, all I was doing was commenting on the slack people give to those they perceive as somehow “compromised,” or whatever.

No worries dude! If there’s anyone that can understand what I’m talking about it’s you. Doesn’t matter how you got there. Being thanked for my service in person is always an awkward situation, it must be even more so for you. Just thinking about how much awkwardness is flying back and forth in that interaction makes me laugh a bit out loud