The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It

[Gee64]

So I have an idea I would like to fly by you all.

As a group, lets charge admission. Toss out a picture of what you got going on, even if you don't have any weed growing at the moment but you have a pepper plant or a cactus or whatever, and try to track it over time like say weekly, in a manner that relates to its lighting. Even a grow thats hurting is good input. How shorter days on the windowsill effect it or how turning your led up effects it or anything like that.

If you can include your thoughts, beliefs, or hard science, and especially your knowledge on it, we get a lot of light info all at once. Crowd sourcing.

I need to learn light, as my last led was awesome, but it never had a volume dial and it was only 540 watts. I never really needed to understand much about light until now.

@Jon explained to me a lot, and mostly that I needed to calibrate the Photone App, which I had tried many times before but without it being calibrated it made no sense, so if Jon is willing to help anyone get started, you should all download it and check things out.

Im almost starting to think light may be important. Grab an IR thermometer too if you can, and compare ppfd and leaf temps and light intensities, and maybe we will find that a lot of growing problems are actually lighting problems.

Then once a week or so toss another picture in and we can all analyze the week to week stuff.

It would be a really easy fix if your grow was less than stellar and the only adjustment you needed was in lighting.

 

[Absorber]

So I have an idea I would like to fly by you all.

As a group, lets charge admission. Toss out a picture of what you got going on, even if you don't have any weed growing at the moment but you have a pepper plant or a cactus or whatever, and try to track it over time like say weekly, in a manner that relates to its lighting. Even a grow thats hurting is good input. How shorter days on the windowsill effect it or how turning your led up effects it or anything like that.

If you can include your thoughts, beliefs, or hard science, and especially your knowledge on it, we get a lot of light info all at once. Crowd sourcing.

I need to learn light, as my last led was awesome, but it never had a volume dial and it was only 540 watts. I never really needed to understand much about light until now.

@Jon explained to me a lot, and mostly that I needed to calibrate the Photone App, which I had tried many times before but without it being calibrated it made no sense, so if Jon is willing to help anyone get started, you should all download it and check things out.

Im almost starting to think light may be important. Grab an IR thermometer too if you can, and compare ppfd and leaf temps and light intensities, and maybe we will find that a lot of growing problems are actually lighting problems.

Then once a week or so toss another picture in and we can all analyze the week to week stuff.

It would be a really easy fix if your grow was less than stellar and the only adjustment you needed was in lighting.

I've often wondered if we could shorten how many hours in a day (24hrs) if we were to work off say 23 hr day cycle or less. So for veg 18 hrs light and 5hrs dark and for flower 12 hrs light and 11hrs dark . I wonder what the threshold would be how low can we go ,imagine how much quicker we could do a grow only downsides are light comes on and off at different times every day and you would have to use code to control the light hrs as there aren't any 23hr timers .
When I first heard of hydro years and years ago this is what I thought people must have been doing but quickly realised it wasn't.
Your thoughts

 

[Azimuth]

As a group, lets charge admission. Toss out a picture of what you got going on,

So, does that mean if I can't afford the admission fee, then I can't visit?

 

[Gee64]

I've often wondered if we could shorten how many hours in a day (24hrs) if we were to work off say 23 hr day cycle or less. So for veg 18 hrs light and 5hrs dark and for flower 12 hrs light and 11hrs dark . I wonder what the threshold would be how low can we go ,imagine how much quicker we could do a grow only downsides are light comes on and off at different times every day and you would have to use code to control the light hrs as there aren't any 23hr timers .
When I first heard of hydro years and years ago this is what I thought people must have been doing but quickly realised it wasn't.
Your thoughts

Hmmm. Thats interesting. At first thought I would say it would mess the plant up, but maybe not too. Your right though, the timer would be the tough part. You would have to remember to adjust it every day. It would knock a week off the grow. Actually a phone apped timer may allow 7 days programming at a time so you would only have to program it weekly.

 

[Gee64]

So, does that mean if I can't afford the admission fee, then I can't visit?

What else you got as currency?

 

[Absorber]

Hmmm. Thats interesting. At first thought I would say it would mess the plant up, but maybe not too. Your right though, the timer would be the tough part. You would have to remember to adjust it every day. It would knock a week off the grow. Actually a phone apped timer may allow 7 days programming at a time so you would only have to program it weekly.

I think you will find every timer works off a 24 hr day Mechanical or digital the only way around it would be to use an arduino with code written to work of a 22hr day ,you could have to bits to the code flower and veg with a switch to select and the code cycles for you

 

[Gee64]

I think you will find every timer works off a 24 hr day Mechanical or digital the only way around it would be to use an arduino with code written to work of a 22hr day ,you could have to bits to the code flower and veg with a switch to select and the code cycles for you

I have an app called CE Smart and it controls smart devices. It allows me to program a smart plug for different hours each day of the week if I want. The plug-in turns on and off so no timer required.

So I could try it and adjust it weekly, which is no big deal, It wouldn't be ideal but it could be done in a closet.

If anyone else has a spare tent and an app driven plug...... jus sayin.....

It should be done right from sprouting I would think, but maybe a conventionally vegged plant at flip might work too.

Thoughts?

 

[Absorber]

I have an app called CE Smart and it controls smart devices. It allows me to program a smart plug for different hours each day of the week if I want. The plug-in turns on and off so no timer required.

So I could try it and adjust it weekly, which is no big deal, It wouldn't be ideal but it could be done in a closet.

If anyone else has a spare tent and an app driven plug...... jus sayin.....

It should be done right from sprouting I would think, but maybe a conventionally vegged plant at flip might work too.

Thoughts?

I think hit it with the shorter days from the start

 

[Keffka]

Hmmm. Thats interesting. At first thought I would say it would mess the plant up, but maybe not too. Your right though, the timer would be the tough part. You would have to remember to adjust it every day. It would knock a week off the grow. Actually a phone apped timer may allow 7 days programming at a time so you would only have to program it weekly.

She’s a plant of averages in most aspects. I think as long as you managed to average enough light over the time period it wouldn’t matter much on the dark side. Even 2 hours of dark gives her a break, so theoretically it could work. It gives me a bit of a headache just trying to think about the schedule though so that’s for someone else to figure out

 

[Azimuth]

Or, add malted barley to your organic grow which is said to knock 15% off the time. And, no math!

 

[Azimuth]

What else you got as currency?

Unfortunately, not my looks. Maybe my "spicey" personality to help brighten an otherwise dull topic? I mean, you did propose a big project on lights right?

 

[Gee64]

Unfortunately, not my looks. Maybe my "spicey" personality to help brighten an otherwise dull topic? I mean, you did propose a big project on lights right?

OK, your back in!

 

[Azimuth]

OK, your back in!

Ok, thanks. Back stage pass included, right? You know, like if I wanted to meet the band...

 

[Jon]

So I have an idea I would like to fly by you all.

As a group, lets charge admission. Toss out a picture of what you got going on, even if you don't have any weed growing at the moment but you have a pepper plant or a cactus or whatever, and try to track it over time like say weekly, in a manner that relates to its lighting. Even a grow thats hurting is good input. How shorter days on the windowsill effect it or how turning your led up effects it or anything like that.

If you can include your thoughts, beliefs, or hard science, and especially your knowledge on it, we get a lot of light info all at once. Crowd sourcing.

I need to learn light, as my last led was awesome, but it never had a volume dial and it was only 540 watts. I never really needed to understand much about light until now.

@Jon explained to me a lot, and mostly that I needed to calibrate the Photone App, which I had tried many times before but without it being calibrated it made no sense, so if Jon is willing to help anyone get started, you should all download it and check things out.

Im almost starting to think light may be important. Grab an IR thermometer too if you can, and compare ppfd and leaf temps and light intensities, and maybe we will find that a lot of growing problems are actually lighting problems.

Then once a week or so toss another picture in and we can all analyze the week to week stuff.

It would be a really easy fix if your grow was less than stellar and the only adjustment you needed was in lighting.

Thanks Gee, awesome post. It takes a village.

 

[Sparkey224]

I have an app called CE Smart and it controls smart devices. It allows me to program a smart plug for different hours each day of the week if I want. The plug-in turns on and off so no timer required.

So I could try it and adjust it weekly, which is no big deal, It wouldn't be ideal but it could be done in a closet.

If anyone else has a spare tent and an app driven plug...... jus sayin.....

It should be done right from sprouting I would think, but maybe a conventionally vegged plant at flip might work too.

Thoughts?

Damn, that's scary as f***. Lol.. only time I Jack my plants up is messing with my timers, from the different tents. Have to make sure they're all on the same "on time".
My plants would be paralyzed if I had control on a app. Lol

 

[Gee64]

Damn, that's scary as f***. Lol.. only time I Jack my plants up is messing with my timers, from the different tents. Have to make sure they're all on the same "on time".
My plants would be paralyzed if I had control on a app. Lol

Plants.... Meet Dr Evil.....

 

[Jon]

So I have an idea I would like to fly by you all.

As a group, lets charge admission. Toss out a picture of what you got going on, even if you don't have any weed growing at the moment but you have a pepper plant or a cactus or whatever, and try to track it over time like say weekly, in a manner that relates to its lighting. Even a grow thats hurting is good input. How shorter days on the windowsill effect it or how turning your led up effects it or anything like that.

If you can include your thoughts, beliefs, or hard science, and especially your knowledge on it, we get a lot of light info all at once. Crowd sourcing.

I need to learn light, as my last led was awesome, but it never had a volume dial and it was only 540 watts. I never really needed to understand much about light until now.

@Jon explained to me a lot, and mostly that I needed to calibrate the Photone App, which I had tried many times before but without it being calibrated it made no sense, so if Jon is willing to help anyone get started, you should all download it and check things out.

Im almost starting to think light may be important. Grab an IR thermometer too if you can, and compare ppfd and leaf temps and light intensities, and maybe we will find that a lot of growing problems are actually lighting problems.

Then once a week or so toss another picture in and we can all analyze the week to week stuff.

It would be a really easy fix if your grow was less than stellar and the only adjustment you needed was in lighting.

Here’s a couple things I’ll say based on observations over time:
- I’m not sure the veg hours matter in terms of hermie-ing or anything else as long as you’re above say, 14 hours of light a day. The key is consistency imo. So I would say pick a veg time and stick with it.
- Although everyone learns it’s 18/6 and 12/12 at first, we all start messing with it. And outdoor growers are never to the hour on anything light related. However, there may just be a reason for 18/6. It gives the plant plenty of hours of food to grow with, and just enough time to reset for the next day. Many people veg at 24/0! I do too, but only for about two weeks. Then it’s 18/6. Whether one wants to argue they don’t need rest in veg, well, I believe they do. Try it in two tents and veg one at 24/0 and one at 18/6. See what happens. I have no idea. Lol.
- Does anyone flower at something other than 12/12? Why?
- I believe the magic flower # is 12/12 and you can do whatever you want above that as long as it’s consistent or slowly stepped through changes.
- I also believe the rigamaroles we go through related to this are largely silly and is overthinking it. Set the light at the appropriate par or ppfd level for whatever stage of growth you’re in. Go something hours wise consistent in veg. Go 12/12 in flower. The rest is much ado about nothing. And use a good quality bar light that covers your space wall to wall as much as possible. And has a dimmer, at least.
- Wattage is where it’s at. I’m about to go to 680 watts in the tent for flower. I’ll have to raise my light to maintain the same ppfd I have now at 550 watts. So one might rightfully say, what’s the difference if the ppfd is the same, right? Well, idk the answer to that, but what I do know is that 1000 ppfd on the canopy beaming down from 680 watts promotes way way more intense growth on every level than 1000 ppfd beaming down from 550 watts. Same ppfd. Different wattage. Makes a big difference. Imho, the target size light for excellent growth and flower in a 5x5 tent is 750 watts. That’s 30 watts for every square foot. I personally don’t want to go less than that, yet in every tent I am. Lol. This 680 watt beast is the best I have. So far. Lol.

There’s some stuff.

 

[Graytail]

The answer to the wattage issue is canopy depth. More watts mean that you have to move the plants away, but you get more space back at the bottom of the canopy.

I use an easy rule of thumb. The top of the canopy can only handle 1000-1200 umols, and you need 500 at the bottom. And with widely dispersed LEDs, you lose about 1/2 of your intensity at twice the distance. It's been measured and it's pretty consistent. So, as the math turns out ... if you need 14" of headroom to get under 1200 umols ... that gives you another 14" until it fades to 500. Your headroom roughly equals your canopy depth. More wattage gives you a deeper effective canopy. If you have 1000 umols at 2 feet of headroom, you'll have 2 feet of canopy.

Your canopy depth = your headroom.

Of course, you also have to be able to run with more headroom to get the deeper canopy - taller ceiling or shorter plants.

 

[Gee64]

Here’s a couple things I’ll say based on observations over time:
- I’m not sure the veg hours matter in terms of hermie-ing or anything else as long as you’re above say, 14 hours of light a day. The key is consistency imo. So I would say pick a veg time and stick with it.
- Although everyone learns it’s 18/6 and 12/12 at first, we all start messing with it. And outdoor growers are never to the hour on anything light related. However, there may just be a reason for 18/6. It gives the plant plenty of hours of food to grow with, and just enough time to reset for the next day. Many people veg at 24/0! I do too, but only for about two weeks. Then it’s 18/6. Whether one wants to argue they don’t need rest in veg, well, I believe they do. Try it in two tents and veg one at 24/0 and one at 18/6. See what happens. I have no idea. Lol.
- Does anyone flower at something other than 12/12? Why?
- I believe the magic flower # is 12/12 and you can do whatever you want above that as long as it’s consistent or slowly stepped through changes.
- I also believe the rigamaroles we go through related to this are largely silly and is overthinking it. Set the light at the appropriate par or ppfd level for whatever stage of growth you’re in. Go something hours wise consistent in veg. Go 12/12 in flower. The rest is much ado about nothing. And use a good quality bar light that covers your space wall to wall as much as possible. And has a dimmer, at least.
- Wattage is where it’s at. I’m about to go to 680 watts in the tent for flower. I’ll have to raise my light to maintain the same ppfd I have now at 550 watts. So one might rightfully say, what’s the difference if the ppfd is the same, right? Well, idk the answer to that, but what I do know is that 1000 ppfd on the canopy beaming down from 680 watts promotes way way more intense growth on every level than 1000 ppfd beaming down from 550 watts. Same ppfd. Different wattage. Makes a big difference. Imho, the target size light for excellent growth and flower in a 5x5 tent is 750 watts. That’s 30 watts for every square foot. I personally don’t want to go less than that, yet in every tent I am. Lol. This 680 watt beast is the best I have. So far. Lol.

There’s some stuff.

The difference could be the par. From my limited knowledge, Par is the spectrum of light and PPFD is the volume of light.

I may be wrong though. I need to learn light.

6 years ago I studied spectrum and settled on a Perfectsun Goliath. This time around spectrum seems to be almost industrially uniform so I tossed in an IR and UV bar.

 

[Gee64]

The answer to the wattage issue is canopy depth. More watts mean that you have to move the plants away, but you get more space back at the bottom of the canopy.

I use an easy rule of thumb. The top of the canopy can only handle 1000-1200 umols, and you need 500 at the bottom. And with widely dispersed LEDs, you lose about 1/2 of your intensity at twice the distance. It's been measured and it's pretty consistent. So, as the math turns out ... if you need 14" of headroom to get under 1200 umols ... that gives you another 14" until it fades to 500. Your headroom roughly equals your canopy depth. More wattage gives you a deeper effective canopy. If you have 1000 umols at 2 feet of headroom, you'll have 2 feet of canopy.

Your canopy depth = your headroom.

Of course, you also have to be able to run with more headroom to get the deeper canopy - taller ceiling or shorter plants.

Oh I like that! I have 36" of headroom at 1000 and only at 75% light in an 8 foot tent. I could use a 36" canopy. Next grow Im going to have to remove the carbon filter to get the light up another 16".