2000 Watt - 69 Plants

[luckiestman13]

Before
pH 6.0 added 1.5 TBS pH down
PPm 1060 added 1 TBS maxibloom

After
pH 5.7
PPm 1150

Water temp 63 F.

So far the plants are loving both lights on. Currently at 37 in from canopy to bulb.



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[Christine Green]

I almost bought that book yesterday! I have a couple of his others. I've never heard of the grow book, is that a magazine or catalog?

 

[OlderGrower]

Yes you're right I can't clean it. I try and change about 90% of the water every 10-14 days. I was told the hydrogen peroxide helps prevent root rot. But I read today on justforgrowers.com that he doesn't (Everest Fernadez) like to use it. So I'll be researching more.

Here's a picture of some bright white healthy roots

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IMO I'm with your female friend. For the cost LEDs are still too expensive, still produce heat, not cheap enough to run for 4 X the price. Sure they look cool. But I'll be running DE 1000s in my space.

Actually I do believe she will be going 10 and 10 with Gavitas and LED, yes they are expensive up front, though 4x might be a stretch, you can find them cheaper then that and get the same results. Yep they still produce heat and quiet a bit, anyone who tells you they don't is full of BS but they do produce less heat then the HIDs which means you run your A/C less, that cost must be figured in also to be accurate. The LEDs have roughly 10,000 hours of burn time, so factor in the cost of those lamps you will need to replace and if you are going with Gavitas, there is the $79 dollars per year for the reflector replacement which also needs to be factored in since they will be the 1st to tell you that not changing them out creates a loss of 5% of your light. And yes even with all of that factored in, they are still not equal or close to equal cost wise until you start comparing the cost of usable light per year on and equal basis. Both the HPS and the MH both produce light wave lengths that are not used by the plant so in effect you are paying for that unusable light every month and it will start adding up over time. It is all about the long term costs. Though nothing against being a die-hard HID fan, heck my brother feels the same way as do many of the people I know who grow are.

Sorry I tend to babble when I medicate,
Might I suggest a root enzyme that is liquid based as a preventative against root rot in your situation, either that or a water chiller. You have such a nice set up, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. What I have found is DWC is super simple and as long as you understand the basics of plant development it is not rocket science, though the root rot issue is the one scary monster in the closet that looms over DWC, that is why I bleach my buckets weekly. Call me paranoid. here is a picture of my roots

Either way I do really like your set up and am envious of having that much space to grow in, though one day I will be building y dream grow myself. Hope it is as nice as yours.

 

[luckiestman13]

I almost bought that book yesterday! I have a couple of his others. I've never heard of the grow book, is that a magazine or catalog?

It's a magazine telling you how equipment works and how to grow. It also has sections on soil hydro,lighting, nutrients, co2 etc. One could probably grow with just the knowledge gained from this magazine. My local hydro store gave me one free with my purchase of my grow room. ...


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[luckiestman13]

Actually I do believe she will be going 10 and 10 with Gavitas and LED, yes they are expensive up front, though 4x might be a stretch, you can find them cheaper then that and get the same results. Yep they still produce heat and quiet a bit, anyone who tells you they don't is full of BS but they do produce less heat then the HIDs which means you run your A/C less, that cost must be figured in also to be accurate. The LEDs have roughly 10,000 hours of burn time, so factor in the cost of those lamps you will need to replace and if you are going with Gavitas, there is the $79 dollars per year for the reflector replacement which also needs to be factored in since they will be the 1st to tell you that not changing them out creates a loss of 5% of your light. And yes even with all of that factored in, they are still not equal or close to equal cost wise until you start comparing the cost of usable light per year on and equal basis. Both the HPS and the MH both produce light wave lengths that are not used by the plant so in effect you are paying for that unusable light every month and it will start adding up over time. It is all about the long term costs. Though nothing against being a die-hard HID fan, heck my brother feels the same way as do many of the people I know who grow are.

Sorry I tend to babble when I medicate,
Might I suggest a root enzyme that is liquid based as a preventative against root rot in your situation, either that or a water chiller. You have such a nice set up, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. What I have found is DWC is super simple and as long as you understand the basics of plant development it is not rocket science, though the root rot issue is the one scary monster in the closet that looms over DWC, that is why I bleach my buckets weekly. Call me paranoid. here is a picture of my roots

Either way I do really like your set up and am envious of having that much space to grow in, though one day I will be building y dream grow myself. Hope it is as nice as yours.

What an awesome post. At this point I've never experienced root rot. But many hydro systems aren't bleached weekly. I'm extremely clean with my grow room and space.

As for the lights. Maybe I just haven't found them but all the professional commercial growers I follow on YouTube are using HID's. (Medicropper, house of the great Gardner are two examples.)

Medicrop Ep: 37 - YouTube

House of the Great Gardener Cannabis Grow Room 2 - YouTube



You mention replacing of bulbs to keep light output at optimal levels for HIDs. Double ended bulbs last 3 times as long as traditional ones. And maybe I'm mistaken but HIDs still put out more lumens than LEDs.

HIDs produce more product, LEDs can produce different or better terpenes (taste, smell). Someone please correct me if this is wrong.

My temps in my reservoir don't rise over 65 degrees currently. But yes after this grow I will have the money to add a water chiller and a couple more lights as well as expand into another room


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[luckiestman13]

Very awesome comparison video. Those LEDs are $2400 a piece. They were $3000. I think the HIDs could have been more closer without burning resulting in a higher output.

A more accurate test would be to place the lights at a distance where PAR was the same.

DRY WEIGHT COMPARISON RESULTS - LED vs 1000W Double-Ended HPS - YouTube




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[luckiestman13]

I think it's important to note for commercial growers adding more lights always produces more product. I would keep adding HIDs until I couldn't not upgrade to LEDs. While I think LEDs in time will surpass HID for growing in the next 5 years I don't think it's there yet.


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[HiddenGrow]

I think it's important to note for commercial growers adding more lights always produces more product. I would keep adding HIDs until I couldn't not upgrade to LEDs. While I think LEDs in time will surpass HID for growing in the next 5 years I don't think it's there yet.


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Interesting factor and very important when considering that your investing in a new technology. I'll throw in my opinion though.

When it comes to factoring in cost the initial investment is the most important. But I lie to factor in the overall room wattage. Lets say we have a 10' by 5' room ( I use MarsII LED since its a decent price for great LED) you could easily fit maybe 2-3 DE HPS, Lets say 2 to compare, or 2-4 high powered LEDs.

With the DE you have 2300 max Wattage if you run them on 1150, plus Ventilation my 1000cfm is 200w, and Ac/Dc coolers 14,000btu runs 1350w, this would be the basics to keep your tent lighted without burning it down without all the other factors (growing method, controllers, timers, etc) which makes a total wattage for this room 3850. This is all in theory.

If you have a 3 light LED system running 750w each making it 2250w, plus everything else. makes it seem not worth getting the LEDs, But! WHAT IF... the Ac unit wasn't entirely necessary? LEDs emit heat, but not too much maybe a 5-10 degree difference, this is an easier difference to manage than a HPS heat swing.

Lets say one was able to figure out how to completely remove the AC unit from their grow room without any negative effects, that's shaving 1350 watts from your electricity bill.

I think growers should figure out their Total Room Wattage when checking yields. Lets say I have a 1000w HPS light, with a 150w vent fan, and a 750w ac which runs only on lights on. and I get a 1000g harvest. Considering the Total Room Wattage I got a Harvest of .52g/watt which now Looks really low.

But lets say the same room had a 750w LED, with a 150w vent, and a 750w AC unit that is unnecessary since my tent when air is vented out is 80-87 degrees and I get 600gs from harvest. The Total Room Wattage is reduced giving me .66g/watt. Hmm it seems that It's not that big of a difference now.

I know this seems Biased and it kinda is, but as a personal grower It makes sense to reduce how much energy my room draws as much as possible. For commercial Growers it makes more sense to throw as much power into a room as possible since they are focused on that profit.

I hope that this makes sense to anyone trying to determine whether to go full HPS or LED. HPS makes sense for commercial growers since a whole room can be cooled from one AC unit. But for all the folks that want to grow their own meds LEDs make more sense overall since there's a bit of wiggle room.

Sorry for the long post. I wanted to comment since you posted that Spyder LED comparison video. Happy Growing! I cant wait to see how your grow does.

 

[MrLoveGrow]

Interesting stuff, love those roots, no wonder dwc get big plants no wasted space..

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[luckiestman13]

Interesting factor and very important when considering that your investing in a new technology. I'll throw in my opinion though.

When it comes to factoring in cost the initial investment is the most important. But I lie to factor in the overall room wattage. Lets say we have a 10' by 5' room ( I use MarsII LED since its a decent price for great LED) you could easily fit maybe 2-3 DE HPS, Lets say 2 to compare, or 2-4 high powered LEDs.

With the DE you have 2300 max Wattage if you run them on 1150, plus Ventilation my 1000cfm is 200w, and Ac/Dc coolers 14,000btu runs 1350w, this would be the basics to keep your tent lighted without burning it down without all the other factors (growing method, controllers, timers, etc) which makes a total wattage for this room 3850. This is all in theory.

If you have a 3 light LED system running 750w each making it 2250w, plus everything else. makes it seem not worth getting the LEDs, But! WHAT IF... the Ac unit wasn't entirely necessary? LEDs emit heat, but not too much maybe a 5-10 degree difference, this is an easier difference to manage than a HPS heat swing.

Lets say one was able to figure out how to completely remove the AC unit from their grow room without any negative effects, that's shaving 1350 watts from your electricity bill.

I think growers should figure out their Total Room Wattage when checking yields. Lets say I have a 1000w HPS light, with a 150w vent fan, and a 750w ac which runs only on lights on. and I get a 1000g harvest. Considering the Total Room Wattage I got a Harvest of .52g/watt which now Looks really low.

But lets say the same room had a 750w LED, with a 150w vent, and a 750w AC unit that is unnecessary since my tent when air is vented out is 80-87 degrees and I get 600gs from harvest. The Total Room Wattage is reduced giving me .66g/watt. Hmm it seems that It's not that big of a difference now.

I know this seems Biased and it kinda is, but as a personal grower It makes sense to reduce how much energy my room draws as much as possible. For commercial Growers it makes more sense to throw as much power into a room as possible since they are focused on that profit.

I hope that this makes sense to anyone trying to determine whether to go full HPS or LED. HPS makes sense for commercial growers since a whole room can be cooled from one AC unit. But for all the folks that want to grow their own meds LEDs make more sense overall since there's a bit of wiggle room.

Sorry for the long post. I wanted to comment since you posted that Spyder LED comparison video. Happy Growing! I cant wait to see how your grow does.

Great info! And I share the same opinions.

My plan is to eventually build a commercial building outfitted with 10-20 HIDs.


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[OlderGrower]

What an awesome post. At this point I've never experienced root rot. But many hydro systems aren't bleached weekly. I'm extremely clean with my grow room and space.

I agree both that many do not bleach and your grow appears to be extremely clean. Was not trying to imply your grow was not, only suggesting that an ounce of prevention is always cheaper then a pound of cure. In life chit happens and I truly want you to be successful and fulfill your dream

As for the lights. Maybe I just haven't found them but all the professional commercial growers I follow on YouTube are using HID's. (Medicropper, house of the great Gardner are two examples.)

Medicrop Ep: 37 - YouTube

House of the Great Gardener Cannabis Grow Room 2 - YouTube

Yes sir and for every video you can find of a commercial grower saying that HID is the only way to grow I can find one of a LED commercial grower saying that LEDs are the only way to grow. Yes they are out there. So which ones right and who is wrong? Neither. Ok so that seems a bit of a confusing answer until you read my reply to your next comment.

You mention replacing of bulbs to keep light output at optimal levels for HIDs. Double ended bulbs last 3 times as long as traditional ones. And maybe I'm mistaken but HIDs still put out more lumens than LEDs.

Ok so I said next moment, disregard, it is the comment after this one Much like HID grows verse LED grows this question all depends on who you listen to. I googled amount of Lumens produced per watt for HID and LED and the answers were all over the place, some said HID produced 6o lumens per what while LEDs produced 30 lumens per watt where as other claimed that HID only produced 40 lumens per watt while the LEDs produced 50 lumens per watt, my guess is that each report was sqewd to produce the results they personally were looking for, but thats just a guess.

HIDs produce more product, LEDs can produce different or better terpenes (taste, smell). Someone please correct me if this is wrong.

More product is definable but better smell and taste that is subjective, where you may say "Man that smells and tastes wonderful" I may be saying"Hell this tastes and smells like crap" Which is better LEDs or HID, again while portions of that question may be definable, most of it is subjective. Say for arguments sake, that video on Spyder LED lights comparison grow was 100% true and they did not sqew the comparison by keeping the HIDs slightly further away from the plants in order to cut down on the final yield. Does that make them the better choice? Not really, it is all dependent on what they intend to do with the yield. Perhaps the market they were growing for prefers the different terpenes that HID produces and think that the LED terpenes smell and taste like crap.What is the advantage of growing 1.56 grams per watt verse 0.93 grams per watt if the consumer wants the taste and smell of the 0.93 grams per watt. it is subjective.

My temps in my reservoir don't rise over 65 degrees currently. But yes after this grow I will have the money to add a water chiller and a couple more lights as well as expand into another room
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very cool, no I mean very cool. I store my water inside which is why I say very cool, guess I should move it outside or to a cooler location because it comes out of the barrel at 71 degrees F

actually it is very cool you will be able to upgrade soon and have even a nicer grow area

The whole definable verses subjective point was only to show it is personal preference. I live in Oregon near Portland and the personal preference of most here is for dense buds that stank, to me that is silly, I prefer the actually affect of the weed I smoke, I could care less what it tastes or smells like but that is my preference, but if I want to be able to move anything I grow, well I am stuck growing what the general public want, not what I prefer.

my intent was not to get into a big debate over which is better LED or HID, or even which is better stank and dense verses effect, it was only to say "Nice grow set up, glad you are fulfilling your dream and I wish you only the best" I tend to babble so I can see where my intent may have been misinterpreted.

Anyway, nice grow, your garden looks great, very professional and I am looking forward to a great harvest from you Cheers

 

[TheBlaze]

My grow is smaller than this, but I have found the best results come from mixing HPS and LED. This prompted me to buy 2 new LED lights for my tent. So in flower I will have 600w HPS and on either side of that, I will have a 180w LED panel for a total of 960w. Yield is important to me as well. I pulled 0.75g/w in my last grow with HPS + LED, but the potency, smell and taste were definitely a big step up from what I'm used to. I have no proof to back up that statement, but I am confident of this. Confident enough to part with my hard earned cash on some newer LED lights.

 

[luckiestman13]

pH 5.8
PPm 1140
64.5 F

My over night temperature was more moderate with the addition of the storage water. Instead of 59F my low for the night was 63 F .. Much cheaper than plugging in a space heater.

What are your thoughts about the tips of my leafs? 60% are turned down, some turned up, some are straight.


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[Christine Green]

This is a previous post about your issue from flexy123:

"Curling ("Clawing") down, when the leaves look "heavy" and form an arc, 99,99% over-watering and the N-deficiency as a result from it."

 

[luckiestman13]

This is a previous post about your issue from flexy123:

"Curling ("Clawing") down, when the leaves look "heavy" and form an arc, 99,99% over-watering and the N-deficiency as a result from it."

So I need more oxygen? Also I just switch switched from 100% veg nutrients to 1/3 veg, 2/3 bloom so they are still getting nitrogen.

I'm about to change my water tomw and wasn't going to add any veg nutrients ( nitrogen).


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[unforgiven]

first off your grow looks great. good work you are doing there. definitely adding the mass of water to absorb heat and disperse it as needed overnight is a great way to go.

love the light debate going on here. I was typing a response, but I feel it got too long winded to blog up your journal with, so I will start a new thread with it. look for it soon lol.

 

[luckiestman13]

Place a 2x4 under a large reservoir to get more water out. Did my second water change. I'm using all general hydroponics maxibloom and calimagic.

pH 5.7
PPm 1190
Temp 68F.

If my temps get over 70 I'll have to drop some frozen water bottles in my reservoir during the day. Can't add a water chiller at the moment.

Or I could allow the temps to get cooler at night thus lowering the temperature of the reservoir.

What would you do?

A couple of the larger side plants I'm going to have to support before they fall over.


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[luckiestman13]

To support some of the side plants that got bushy I picked up some yoyo's from my local hydro store. They work great! It's basically a fishing line on a wound spring.


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[luckiestman13]

Going to Mexico City, Mexico for 5 nights. I got everything set up and checked so I can enjoy my time. .. I have a friend staying at my house to top off and add pH down as well as take care of my well mannered dogs.

Reservoir topped off

pH 5.63
PPm 1250


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[Pat999]

Now that is a sea of green