JoJo's Hempy SCROG Bucket C99 Grow Journal - 2015

[iwltfum]

The scrog is lookin awesome jojo! That canopy is so even.

 

[HunterHunt]

I always have leaves falling off natural under the canopy. Its because they are not getting light. Everything is looking great on your part! I would have loved to see this same grow with the correct light! You would have killed it in weight terms. Shes so beautiful!

 

[jojo677]

The scrog is lookin awesome jojo! That canopy is so even.

Thanks iwtlfum! Many of the 'SCROGs' I've seen don't exactly keep everything so close to the screen, so I wanted to do it true to the original style! Though many of those other grows had HID lights with better penetration than my LEDs, so they could handle the extra height!

I always have leaves falling off natural under the canopy. Its because they are not getting light. Everything is looking great on your part! I would have loved to see this same grow with the correct light! You would have killed it in weight terms. Shes so beautiful!

I've had leaves stay on and fall off during my last few grows, but they were never this shaded, so that is a good point!

On the lights - I would love to grow with an HPS and I know I would do (probably) much better! Maybe in a future growroom... I'll admit, I went cheap with the LEDs, as I didn't want to invest in the ballast, hood, bulb, etc. I do have 2x of some cheap 150W HPSs that I picked up on Craigslist, but I'm sure I couldn't handle the heat right now.



A few other things:

I noticed a tiny bit of nute burn on the tips of some leaves, which tells me that this feeding program matches their needs pretty well! The growth still seems slow though, so I think I need to water without nutes for once. The little Hempy buds are bigger than the big Hempy!

The temperature has also been pretty high lately. Outside is in the high 90s (Fahrenheit of course), and the canopy is just below 90°F. I don't know what else I could do to reduce the heat much more. The room is insulated, so it has to be from the lights. After this grow, I'll probably make a "cool tube" for at least one of the LEDs. These little cheapos put out a pretty good amount of heat compared to the more expensive models, from what I understand.

Any other thoughts on why I may be getting slow growth?

 

[Tead]

I had to finally give up on flowering during the depths of summer. Moved my veg tent right in front of the AC and the tent is staying well below 80 even during the hottest part of the day. The lesson here.... the smaller the area you need to cool, the easier it is. With the bloom area in use I was hitting 100 every day. At this point, I could probably bloom in the veg tent with a 400W HID in a cool tube. Cool tubes do make an enormous difference. With 400 watts going thru it, it was always cool to the touch.

 

[Tead]

So... I share some recent hempy related observations I've made.
I pulled up a girl the other day. It had been in a 1/3 verm 2/3 perlite mix. I had some really brown and crappy looking roots. There appeared to have been some root death and decay in some parts of the pot.
While I attribute some of this to the sheer heat, I think she would have gone much better if she were in just perlite. I'll be using just perlite in the future. It may not retain as much water thru the mix, I'd much rather water it more often than risk any root zone 'creativity'.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Bennies, in the powdered form of beneficial fungi spores, and beneficial bacteria products, and brewed bennie tea is root zone creativity of a good sort. It eradicated my root issues.

 

[Tead]

Not sure that would help much at 100f. I really feel from digging out the roots and playing with the medium that my issues had to do with dense areas in the pots. The verm seems to stratify in the pots some and form dense layers that retain a ton of water. I've been playing with it a lot and have even done some test watering to see how the mix retains water and I feel it's just too thick.

 

[HunterHunt]

They are bigger because the plant and cola count is smaller. All the energy is focused on 10-20 colas instead of 100 ++

 

[jojo677]

The lesson here.... the smaller the area you need to cool, the easier it is. [...] Cool tubes do make an enormous difference. With 400 watts going thru it, it was always cool to the touch.

So... I share some recent hempy related observations I've made.
I pulled up a girl the other day. It had been in a 1/3 verm 2/3 perlite mix. I had some really brown and crappy looking roots. There appeared to have been some root death and decay in some parts of the pot.
While I attribute some of this to the sheer heat, I think she would have gone much better if she were in just perlite. I'll be using just perlite in the future. It may not retain as much water thru the mix, I'd much rather water it more often than risk any root zone 'creativity'.

I was just thinking about how much easier it would be to cool a small grow box, if I decide to make one. I think my grow room holds a lot more heat than it needs to, plus the fan has to run faster to get a better air exchange rate than it would in a small box.

As for the roots, I ALMOST made the change to straight perlite for the most recent clone, but I had some left over vermiculite... It's good to hear the feedback about the root death though. I'm hoping that it was temperature related in your case, and I can keep mine down a bit. I guess I'll find out in a few weeks.. Have you noticed this issue before?

Bennies, in the powdered form of beneficial fungi spores, and beneficial bacteria products, and brewed bennie tea is root zone creativity of a good sort. It eradicated my root issues.

What kind of fungi spores are you talking about, and would they apply to a hydro system like Hempy or do they need a soil/soiless environment to thrive? I've been interested in this, and almost bought some mycorrhizae to add to the Promix, before I made the switch to Hempy.

They are bigger because the plant and cola count is smaller. All the energy is focused on 10-20 colas instead of 100 ++

That's kind of what I figured, but there are some differences too. For instance, the smaller plant has 1/10 the room for roots and it is only getting 25% of the light. Though I do think I have way more colas in the big Hempy per root space or light. I'm going to give a straight watering tonight just to be sure. She probably needs it anyway!

 

[Tead]

I'm hoping that it was temperature related in your case, and I can keep mine down a bit. I guess I'll find out in a few weeks.. Have you noticed this issue before?

This is really just my 2nd summer doing the hempy dance. Thinking back, and reading my old journal, I see last year that I was just doing perlite. I was really just learning the variables in play last year. It was a much cooler summer last year as well.
I've never been a fast learner... but I try to make up with it using persistence.

 

[Weaselcracker]

What kind of fungi spores are you talking about, and would they apply to a hydro system like Hempy or do they need a soil/soiless environment to thrive? I've been interested in this, and almost bought some mycorrhizae to add to the Promix, before I made the switch to Hempy.

I don't claim to know much about this subject of bennies. It's a huge area of reading. I'll just blather on a little with what I do sort of 'know', which is subject to change but hopefully true, and someone please help me if it's not. And I'll give you some links.
Beneficial bacteria and fungi can do a long list of amazing things to help your plant function. Too long and amazing for me to list here because I tried already and the first time I typed this the whole post to you got deleted so I'm on my second round and in more of a hurry now ha ha. sort of ...

Yes beneficials absolutely can be used in hydroponics. When I had my root rot problem one of the first useful articles I found was this one from the Cap'n, who grows in rockwool with great success.

Live or Sterile? Why I choose Live

Benneficial fungi. Mainly consists of mycorrhizal fungi, as well as members of the Trichoderma family, to my knowledge.
Mycorrhizal fungi is a description of fungi which live in a symbiotic relationship with plant roots. The fungi feed from the roots while helping the plant in various ways. It's easier to understand, and pronounce, the word if you think of it's roots- 'myco' meaning fungi, and 'rhiza' meaning root. The Myco part seems obvious and Rhizae is pronounced either 'rye - zye' , or 'rye -zee'. Your choice.
Beneficial bacteria. There are huge number of bacteria, symbiotic and non, which a plant needs in order to function. They do everything from fixing nitrogen to killing harmful bacteria and fungi. A gram of soil contains over 10,000 bacterial species.


There are a couple issues with bennies and hydro which come up.

First, it would be pointless if you're running a sterile system using h2o2.

Second- Mycorrhizal fungi, the chief beneficial type of fungi, can live but not reproduce and spread in conditions of high phosphorus, and (I think) potassium, so it's important to establish colonies at the beginning of plants lives. The other beneficial fungi species I stumble across is Trichoderma. I'm not sure of its sensitivity to nutrients.
Establishment of a living colony aside, many growers apply bennies weekly as a root drench tea. I assume this allows the bennies to do their good work before they die, even though they can't grow a colony, in the form of a mycelium.

Third - I read of an issue around nutrient uptake. One of the main functions of bennies is that they help plants process nutrients. In a hydro environment plants theoretically have 100% access to the nutes they need. Therefore bennies may be unnecessary in this respect. However, bennies have many other functions, such as in combatting the harmful fungi known collectively as pythium or root rot.

In some ways soil is much more hospitable to myco and some of the bennies. It's possible this is all the more reason why hydro plants need some source of them

Probably the original, most common, and cheapest form of bennies is obtained by brewing 'tea'. Compost or earth worm castings is the innoculant used to breed large amounts of bennies, using aerated water, and molasses and kelp or fish fertilizer as food for the bennies. The idea being to provide conditions right for brewing a large army of bennies, which will then be flooded into your root zone to do what they do best. The bennie tea, at least in 420 circles, became known as Heisenberg tea after a fellow of that name from another forum who did a ton of brilliant work. I think (?) I can't link to his thread here because of 420 rules (???) but in any case you'll find it in some of the links I'm posting here.

Some commercial bennies I have are:
-Botanicare Hydroguard ( bacteria),
-Botanicare ZHO - Trichoderma and Mycorrhizal fungi.
- GH Subculture M and Subculture B ( beneficial fungi and bacteria, respectively)

Others I've heard good things about are Recharge and Great White.

Here are a couple more links from 420

Brewing your own benny tea


Beneficial microbes -why to use them, how to breed them


How do I identify and prevent Root Rot?

GreenthumbJ was one of the Cap'ns followers. In the beginning of his last journal he talked a bunch about his use of Subculture and teas and root drenches.

GreenThumb J's Perpetual Multi-Strain Journal!

GreenThumb J's Modified Heisenberg Tea - Blogs - 420 Magazine ®

In the journal of The Roach you'll find a little info, and he has a thread on 'farming' Myco fungi.

 

[jojo677]

This is really just my 2nd summer doing the hempy dance. Thinking back, and reading my old journal, I see last year that I was just doing perlite.

I thought I remembered you doing just perlite in your journal... If I scale my grow up any more, I'll probably use straight perlite in new containers. My first bag (used with the current plants) was "extra coarse" and probably wouldn't have worked well without vermiculite. This new bag (used with the newest clone) is "coarse", but it has tons of fine stuff and powder in it, that it seems like it'd be fine without vermiculte. IIRC you were using the "coarse" (regular), correct?

In a hydro environment plants theoretically have 100% access to the nutes they need. Therefore bennies may be unnecessary in this respect. However, bennies have many other functions, such as in combatting the harmful fungi known collectively as pythium or root rot.

I appreciate the quick rundown, very helpful information! Though it sounds like it may not be TOO beneficial in my case, unless root rot becomes an issue. I will also be incorporating an ozone generator in my grow room, for odor control, but it has great anti-fungal/mold benefits as well. I'll see how this grow goes, but if I have root issues, I'll probably incorporate something.

I had no idea those commercial products had bennies! I could probably find them at my local hydro shop..

 

[Weaselcracker]

Have you used an ozone generator before, JoJo?

 

[jojo677]

I have not. I just got some parts in for one, and need to build a controller/enclosure for it so I can run it at whatever rate I'd like. I think many people have issues with them because the ones you can buy run on timers for 20-120 mins, so they probably over-power a lot of spaces. Since I can vary the on/off rates to whatever I'd want, I may run it for 15s every 2 minutes or something. I just need to play with it. I'll probably make it adjustable via WiFi to boot!

The reason I got it is because odor is still an issue for me, and I'm several weeks into flowering, so it will only get stronger. I have an inline duct fan pulling through a carbon filter out of the grow room, and I have a small ONA bucket running 24/7, but I can still notice it 2 rooms away. I figured $30 + some time for an ozone generator is worth a try, compared to trying to put together another carbon filter + fan for "polishing" the air.

Unless you fine folks have any other suggestions?

 

[jojo677]

Just a quick update - I returned from work today to find almost NO SMELL in the adjoining rooms. I will say that I replenished the ONA bucket last night, but I can usually still smell the girls even with it running. The ozone generator was placed in the room last night, and I think it is working very well. It is a 2g/hr model, and I have it running at 30s ON/120s OFF, so effectively 400mg/hr generation. I can't smell the ozone outside of the grow room, and it doesn't smell too strongly inside the room either.

Also, why were you asking about the ozone generator to begin with, Weasel?

I'll post a proper update later tonight!

 

[Weaselcracker]

Hey JJ. I got busy there for a bit. I was wondering because, I used to have an ozone generator many years ago. I never did use it. My understanding was that - the ozone should have a period of at least a few minutes to mix with the smelly air of the room, before being vented out. I was also told that the ozone is unhealthy to breathe and shouldn't be in the grow room. So I pictured a scenario where I had a separate room and somehow the grow room air was vented into that room where the ozone generator was going, and the air was left to sit for five minutes before all being vented to the outside, by some sort of system of timers.
Making this setup work in conjunction with my venting/cooling system which was triggered by the thermostat, seemed a bit of a headache, so I just hooked up a carbon filter instead and gave the ozone generator to a friend.
If you can make sense of my explanation- did I have my info wrong on how the ozone generator works?

 

[jojo677]

No worries, we all get busy - little things that distract us from this addictive hobby!

You made perfect sense, and I have read all of those suggestions before as well. I think the key is keeping the ozone to a level where it doesn't affect the smell of your buds and does not affect your health, yet combats 'The Stench'. I'm not sure what that level is yet, but if I can barely smell the ozone while in the grow room, so I assume it is at a safe level. I will also likely start turning the generator off a few minutes before I enter the room, just in case.

As for the ozone having time to mix with the air, maybe it isn't an issue for me, as my grow room is fairly large and the air isn't evacuated super fast. I've also read that some people put ozone generators inline with their exhaust fan as a preventative measure, but as I see it, it would have hardly any time to mix with air in the vent tube? Other people recommend putting the generator outside the grow space, but I don't really want it running in my living space, as I see that as more of a health hazard.

When it first arrived, I tried running it in adjoining room #1 (which smelled the strongest), and the ozone spread FAST! I know I couldn't put up with that smell, and it gave me a headache, so I decided the grow room was its new home.

Of course time will tell. This may not work as well as I think, but I am going to spend the next few days trying to get it dialed in and make a proper enclosure/control unit for it. If I stop posting, you know I died from excess ozone exposure!

 

[Weaselcracker]

That ozone seemed like it does an amazing job of killing the smell. A great thing to have if it's set up right, but I hated getting whiffs of it - feels all wrong in the nostrils.

 

[jojo677]

Update (31 days flower, 86 days old):

Alrighty folks, the Hempy girls are looking good since their last watering. I fed them tonight back at full strength. The only problem I have now is that some of the leaves on the big Hempy are curling! The part where it was curling was directly in front of the ozone generator, so I turned it out of the way. Weird!

4 Day Comparison:

The little Hempy is looking good too. You can see the comparison of her on the right, buds are much bigger.

The clone is doing well. I think the roots hit the reservoir cause the new growth popped up overnight. Now the fun begins... Hopefully I can keep her in line in this little space for another 4 weeks...

As for the ozone generator, here's my little rig. I modified my old environmental project and have it run on the schedule I mentioned earlier. It's still a little strong, so I may reduce it to a 10% cycle, or 200 mg/hr and see how it reacts. I'll make a container/controller for it this weekend. If anyone is interested, I may put up a tutorial..

Peace!

 

[Happy Hemper]

JoJo all is looking excellent with your hempy grow and a tutorial of your ozone generator would be a great educational addition.
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