Rascio - It's Growing!

[SweetSue]

That moment when you realize the eyes aren't as young as you'd like to believe..... Yeah, I remember that moment.

The second picture I think I see what you're seeing. The first one is too fuzzy to see. You're doing a bang-up job buckaroo. Good luck with those cuttings. I wouldn't worry. You obviously have excellent instincts.

 

[Rascio]

I've been thinking about pots a lot lately. Not a big fan of the 7 gal Smart-Pots. I like the breathability of the fabric. I'd kinda like to keep that but I'd also like something more solid. I also think more of the volume should be put into heighth. The smart pots seem too squat to me.

One option is finding a container that the smart pot will fit in snuggly. A wicker basket maybe.

Another option is to use plastic buckets. I have a perpetual supply of 1, 3.4, and 4.2 US gallon (3.8, 12.8, and 16 litre) white HDPE food grade buckets. I especially like the shape of the two smaller ones.

I think the 3.4 gal peanut butter/jam/fruit salad buckets plus drainage, would make fine pots to veg in. And they're free.

I also like the milk crate idea someone mentioned. Fabricating a cubic softee to fit in a milk crate sounds great to me.

What is the ideal shape for cannabis pots?

Oh and the 6" nursery pots that I thought were gallon pots fit into my 1 gal food buckets with all kinds of space to move.

I was also thinking about the discussion on Doc's thread. Why do we bother starting in cups? It would make sense if we were over planting and culling aggressively, maybe. But those pint cups only last 10-15 days. Doesn't it take longer than that to assess a plants growth habits and toughness? If pretty much every seedling that goes in a cup gets upcanned, it seems like a bit of a waste of time.

And I was thinking of tiering plants. Faced with these squat 7 gal pots, adding another 4-5" of height makes more and more sense. I like the symmetry of having the pot squat at the base and narrow on top. Seems like that would be best way to squeeze the most plant growth per gallon of soil.


TL/DR: Pot mania with a side of obsession.

Am I sounding a bit like Percy Weasley and his thin-bottomed cauldrons?

 

[SweetSue]

Much of this has crossed my mind also. You could fabricate a quick and functional pot using a few layers of weed blocker fabric inside a wicker basket or a milk crate. The 7 gallons look like they'd fit a milk crate. Your 7 gallon fabric pots will grow the best roots, because of the way they air prune and encourage fine-hair roots.

Tiering is an excellent idea. It's actually what I started out to do with my tent, but Ziggy and I decided it wouldn't matter enough in what we were doing. Our system is designed for maximum sampling of variety. Yield takes care of itself.

Back when I started my first journal there was another grower, Stainless, doing two THC Bomb autos, one in a deeper pot than the other, so slightly more volume, but significantly more depth. The plant in the deeper pot far surpassed the one in the shorter pot. That was the only variable in the grow. Deeper is better. You could probably stack two fabric pots and the roots would grow right through the fabric into the lower pot. Think of that for a minute. Wow! I may try that someday, just to see.

Those little pint cups are supposed to encourage the best root growth. This doesn't really make sense to me yet, because my no-till does just fine, thank you very much, with dropping seeds right into it, but it's a healthy community three cycles in. There's good evidence to back that claim up and I'm trying to catch the technique. And yes, all this up canning is a pain and feels like a waste of time, but it probably isn't. I guess. Most likely.

 

[Rascio]

I'm thinking of growing in my pb&j (3.4 gal) buckets, then tiering onto a fabric lined milk crate. If I sink the bucket half way in, I will have a 9+ gal pot total to flower in, about 18" high.
Liking that idea. It steals some height. But I have an 80" high tent now and I plan on using every inch. An extra 6" for the roots seems almost miserly.

 

[Duggan]

Mornin Ras! About pots...i thought the idea you had of using milk crates is the shit brotha...think about it....they are just about perfect for a mid sized plant at harvest and would work awesome . All you would have to do is to line the crate with landscaping cloth, fill it up with our magic and bingo....a very, very good choice for pots. They will of course fit great side by side and would be super easy to move around and carry....hell it's a fuckin super cool idea Ras! How much soil will fit in one of those...right up to the lip?Maybe 8-10 gal's. ,maybe a bit more....? dunno eh! Ras...don't let that idea die...it's a damn good one...those have alot of room for roots....yeepa, yeepa! What ya thinken Ras?

 

[Graytail]

I have my eye on some crates that Sterlite makes that are 15x13x10. I forget exactly, but that's in the 10 gallon range, I believe. A cubic foot is 7.5 gallons? I could squeeze nine of those into my 48x57 inch room.

 

[SweetSue]

I have my eye on some crates that Sterlite makes that are 15x13x10. I forget exactly, but that's in the 10 gallon range, I believe. A cubic foot is 7.5 gallons? I could squeeze nine of those into my 48x57 inch room.

It's nice how things keep fitting so smoothly into your space, eh? Those are the ones I'm using for risers in my tent. I never thought about setting my pots into them, (yet I recommend just such a move for others - WTH Susan?) but that would make life easier for pots not sitting on SWICKs. Of course in my tent they're more likely to be on a SWICK, so it's not a real concern for me is it?

"Never mind."

 

[Duggan]

I gotta say this idea of the milk crates ROCKS all you people. Think about how well they would work. (for mid size only) Easy to handle , lots of capacity, great breathability,inexpensive and readily available....the list goes on and on. OK ....for the record Gang....you heard it here first ....eh Ras!
At hartvest all you gotta do is grab the landscaping cloth and pull out the soil mass....done ...love it! Replace it with some new stuff, or maybe not....hell , just re-use it! I do with my homemade rootbuilders. Cheers Gang.

 

[Rascio]

Mornin Ras! About pots...i thought the idea you had of using milk crates is the shit brotha...think about it....they are just about perfect for a mid sized plant at harvest and would work awesome . All you would have to do is to line the crate with landscaping cloth, fill it up with our magic and bingo....a very, very good choice for pots. They will of course fit great side by side and would be super easy to move around and carry....hell it's a fuckin super cool idea Ras! How much soil will fit in one of those...right up to the lip?Maybe 8-10 gal's. ,maybe a bit more....? dunno eh! Ras...don't let that idea die...it's a damn good one...those have alot of room for roots....yeepa, yeepa! What ya thinken Ras?

Im really liking the idea but it wasn't mine. From Graytail's journal not long ago:

. . . .

I like the 15 inch square pots - they fit so well in my 48x57 inch room. I've looked at larger pots and the softies are round, which won't work, and there isn't much selection of 15 inch square pots. Mine are actually 13 inches of soil, because of the 1 inch lip on the pot. An extra 2 inches would get me a couple more gallons, which would be about right, I think. I've also looked into milk crates with felt liners. There are a couple sizes that could work for me. Meanwhile ... I'd like to figure out this cation load and release process first - see if I can't keep the little 6 gallon pots. . . .

I have my eye on some crates that Sterlite makes that are 15x13x10. I forget exactly, but that's in the 10 gallon range, I believe. A cubic foot is 7.5 gallons? I could squeeze nine of those into my 48x57 inch room.

Yes. Well a cubic foot is 7.5 gal. Remembering thumbing through my old records, I think the crates only 10-11" high. I should measure ours. They might be a bit bigger because they're made for four proper gallons, not those little US ones. 4×4.0 litre milk jugs fit in ours with wiggle room.

For me, the downside Is they're still almost as squat as the 7 gal smart pot. Thats why im stoked on the idea of tiering a round bucket onto a fabric lined milk crate. If a 5" H × 12" D reinforced disc was sitting on top, the volune would be

Crate vol. = 12×12×10=1440 cubes.(6.2 USG)
Disc vol. = pi × 6^2 × 5 = 565 cubes 2.4 USG)
Total = 8.7 USG

It would make moving a little more awkward, but for me thats not the point. I dunno why I think the plants will do very well given more height for the pot.

Cheerss!

 

[SweetSue]

You think that because it's true. Deeper pots give the roots more to exploit. It's a proven fact. Deeper pots equal bigger plants and higher yields, assuming you have any talent to grow, and we already know you've confirmed that.

 

[Rascio]

The top leaves on Silver Haze flower tops are becoming discoloured.

The main cola:

Some of the lower ones.

A little puzzled.

 

[Duggan]

Hey Ras, if your gonna tier from a pot into the milk crate idea why don't you just go to a larger pot right off the bat? Just sayin. Go to a big pot right from ,say a one gal. pot into a 10,15,or 20. Cheers eh!

 

[Duggan]

You think that because it's true. Deeper pots give the roots more to exploit. It's a proven fact. Deeper pots equal bigger plants and higher yields, assuming you have any talent to grow, and we already know you've confirmed that.

Easy there Sue.....If you do a bit more research you will find that after 16_18" of soil depth nothing much happens . On the other hand...look at experiments with o/s raised beds and size compared to yield. It's WAY more important to have area for roots than depth....check it out! I would much rather have a 24" X 24" X 16" deep pot than ,say a 10 X 10 X 24" deep pot! Maybe Doc. or someone can chime in with some info on that. It was somewhere around here a couple months ago....might have been Doc comparing the size of raised beds and corresponding yields for harvested plants. Its true Sue....check it out, I used to think that depth was the most important thing with pots....it aint!

 

[SweetSue]

Easy there Sue.....If you do a bit more research you will find that after 16_18" of soil depth nothing much happens . On the other hand...look at experiments with o/s raised beds and size compared to yield. It's WAY more important to have area for roots than depth....check it out! I would much rather have a 24" X 24" X 16" deep pot than ,say a 10 X 10 X 24" deep pot! Maybe Doc. or someone can chime in with some info on that. It was somewhere around here a couple months ago....might have been Doc comparing the size of raised beds and corresponding yields for harvested plants. Its true Sue....check it out, I used to think that depth was the most important thing with pots....it aint!

That doesn't surprise me Duggan. Raised beds are unbelievably effective for increasing yield. To begin with the entire soil volume is specifically engineered to be as advantageous to root development as you can muster. Very akin to container gardening in that respect. I was commenting on side-by-sides I've watched where the deeper pot obviously out-performed the shorter one.

I'd be interested in seeing that discussion if you ever remember where it is. I can see the rationale for that.

 

[Rascio]

So, after thinking about my plant and her leaves all morning at work, and receiving helpful advice, I think my plants need some changes.

Those leaves aren't getting the ingredients they need. I think the ecology must be off.

You may recall my flowring plants have recently come off the cationic root drench phase. Prior to their last waterings have been only water + cat drench + tea.

The last watering I switched to growth energy (5 ml) + tea <1 ml) and also 2-3 ml of transplant.

I wonderif the transplant in my last watering caused a problem. I only recently learned Chilean nitrate is sodium nitrate. The formula has changed now I think but im wondering if the sodium at maybe the wrong time could have sent the biota out of whack.

They are due for a good drink at lights on.

Plan A is straight water.
Plan B is a dose of tea with plenty of water, and perhaps a light topdress of roots.
Plan C is .... I don't wanna think about plan c right now but if you got it I'm all ears.

Keep the green side up!

 

[SweetSue]

Plan A. Keep it simple. If you think something's out of wack the best approach is usually to back off as much as you can and give the plant recovery time before adding something more.

Just my 2 cents worth. Not that I know what I'm talking about, so take it with a grain of salt. Working on instinct here.

 

[Rascio]

On the bright side

Trichome density has increased,
The discolouration I noticed last night has not spread
The buds are getting stinkIer.

Finished another crazy shift. Will be able to monitor closely over the next few days.

Cheers all!

 

[Rascio]

Rascio's Choice

My little Afghanistan Kush cuttings have been pushed off to the side and neglected more or less since day 1.

Left to right:

They went into pint cups July 15, and were cut from the mother shortly after she showed first pistils, so July 1.

I have only 5-6 gal of soil ready. Thinking of picking one and vegging her big with what soil I have. Another 20-25 gallons of DBHBB soil will be ready in a week or two.

Cool seeds are on their way.

Left has the perkiest and shiniest glow

Centre has an asymmetric growth pattern that I'd like to watch develop further.

Right is the prettiest.

Hmmmm...

Cheers!

 

[Rascio]

. . . a cubic foot is 7.5 gal. Remembering thumbing through my old records, I think the crates only 10-11" high. I should measure ours. . . .
Cheerss!

The internal dimensions of the milk crates at work are 12×12×10.5". This is 6.5 US gal.
Allowing 1/2 an inch at the brim, I'd call it a 6 gallon square pot.

I like that it's square and solid, with perfect handles.
I like that they're a foot wide.
I like that they're free (Well for me. Technically the have a $3-5 recycling deposit. Where I work we often have small deliveries of dairy products from diverse sources, and nobody picks them up, so they accumulate. Lucky me.)

I wish they were 3-4 inches taller.

I hear you Duggan about volume and surface real estate being very important. I also hear SweetSue and my gut tells me that 7 gal smart pots, and fabric lined milk crates even, are squatter than optimal for cannabis. The difference between between soil depths of 12 to 16 inches might not be that great, but I feel that the difference between 8 1/2" and 11-12" soil depth might be .

Ideally, I would like 7-10 gal of soil on a square foot print.

7gal = 1617 cubic inches / 144 square inches = 11 1/4" high. So yeah, my LP collection has scattered to the winds. I hope and trust someone out there is enjoying their magical scratchiness. Ten and a half inches was perfect for my record collection. Now I wish they were more like cubes. So I'll try giving them an extra 3-4 inches Ziggy-Ziggurat style.

Cheers!

 

[SweetSue]

I actually think you're onto something with the food buckets Rascio. They would give you the depth and the volume you're seeking and be free. Doesn't get much better than free.