The Munki's Playground

[Munki]

Oh thanks for the comments guys. I will get some of that metal ducting tape to cover the buckets. The black paint keeps most light out but wasn't totally light proof.

I wanted to mention that I used up my last 5 gallon mix of nutes that were full strength. I'm stepping it back a bit on this next 5 gallons of nutes. I mixed in 30ml Micro and 60ml Bloom into 5 gallons which comes out to 6M-12B-0G. Here is a nutrient calculator results for this mix. This is what I watered and fed with last night.

 

[Matanuska Valley]

This is the bitch of it, you are both right.

SS (( SOME ))

Breeders of autos recommend germinating directly in the final container of at least 2-gallon size for this very reason. Most people don't and then complain of miserable yields with autos.

But all plants, not just autos, establish their grow patterns to whatever container they're in, so it's an issue for every strain, and I'm not sure I can keep plants in 16oz cups long enough to show sex at 12/12, which would be around 3 weeks, without stunting them to some degree.

DB

Hey SS.....I kept my plants in the solo cups till they were sexed. No problem.

They weren't root bound and they took off after being transplanted. I think in a hempy it's the smart way to go, as the plant also stresses while it seeks the bottom of the container.

Unless using femmed seeds, I can't justify mixing up a whole pot of soil, only to pull the plant when it shows its maleness.

Munki Awsome show hope you don't mind me watching, didn't see this thread until now and you are doing a awsome job.
I just put another seed order in for all auto's, 6 different strains last few months been doing so much reading trying to ask questions but no answers really, but then I already know it or I think I do.
Anyways really nice job and I found this thread informative and helpful...

 

[Munki]

Munki Awsome show hope you don't mind me watching, didn't see this thread until now and you are doing a awsome job.
I just put another seed order in for all auto's, 6 different strains last few months been doing so much reading trying to ask questions but no answers really, but then I already know it or I think I do.
Anyways really nice job and I found this thread informative and helpful...

So glad to have you aboard Matanuska Valley. Its easy to get lost in all the various threads that are going on at the same time. I've just been diligently posting away and now have enough to really consider it a grow journal. So, I'm going to need to advertise the thread a bit in the other popular threads (hope y'all don't mind). Appreciate it if you all spread the word about it as I intend to keep up on the updates.

Now regarding answers ... I think you've figured out that each of us need to find out many answers unique to our grow on our own. Paying attention is a required skill of all successful growers. Others can offer tips from their experience, but they grow in probably somewhat of a different environment to yours. Fortunately, Cannabis is adaptable so keep that sleuthing cap on!

 

[Setting Sun]

Hey SS.....I kept my plants in the solo cups till they were sexed. No problem.

They weren't root bound and they took off after being transplanted. I think in a hempy it's the smart way to go, as the plant also stresses while it seeks the bottom of the container.

Unless using femmed seeds, I can't justify mixing up a whole pot of soil, only to pull the plant when it shows its maleness.

I know that it worked well for you, and in fact I recall discussing this specific issue over in your journal at the time, but while an isolated anecdotal experience and single data point can be helpful, it's not something I usually take to the bank.

A whole pot of soil isn't needed, and would take up too much room in the veg room, but someone suggested trying 1/2gal or 1 gallon grow bags, and I think that would work pretty well. Their shape is narrow and tallish, and since they're bags, they could be packed into a veg grow space nicely.

You couldn't set them up as mini-hempys because they have bottom holes, but they could be filled with soil-less media and watered normally, or placed inside a tray with an inch of solution at the bottom for a res.

Your plants may have reached their potential, or they may not have, there's no way to know. I would have been happy with them, but if I can eliminate something that could cause some degree of stunting, and it's not a hassle, why not?

More fodder for 420 Mythbusters, lol.

 

[Munki]

Wanted to make a quick note: I just completed topping the 3 bagseed plants. I went for a cut just above the 5th internode on each plant. They got only a minor haircut as their wasn't much growth beyond this node but I tried to do some quick cloning of them to see if they take. Pics will come tonight.

 

[OldMedMan]

Hi Munki

Now regarding answers ... I think you've figured out that each of us need to find out many answers unique to our grow on our own. Paying attention is a required skill of all successful growers. Others can offer tips from their experience, but they grow in probably somewhat of a different environment to yours. Fortunately, Cannabis is adaptable so keep that sleuthing cap on!

My friend. Words of wisdom
It is still our unique grow and we have to look at it that way. No two are alike.

Come by my place and advertise all you want. Peeps can really pick up sound knowledge from you. I always have.

 

[Matanuska Valley]

 

[ol hippy]

Munki, I think you've got me convinced ! I think my next grow I'll try a couple of clones in a hempy bucket or bag , should be able to go right from clone cutting through harvest right ?, is it ok to start a clone in a 3-5 gal bag or pot ? I'd love to try a flood table !. Nice thread Munki !

 

[herbsnbuds]

A friend of mine plants his germinated seeds in the containers for the final and I didn't. Started all in Dixie cups and transplanted when the plants width exceeded the container. My plants are larger and from the same bag of seeds. I don't think it matters unless you are root-bound for an extended period of time as the roots will continuously seek nutes and water. In fact some have been know to grow up and out of the soil if your medium doesn't allow for proper drainage and full root coverage of the nutes. I like to make the plants stretch for the water when transplanting so I of course moisten the medium before transplant, but then allow the medium to completely dry out so the roots will seek the edges and provide for a more study base.

Until this proves otherwise, I'm gonna stick with my methods but hey, who knows. As OldMedMan pointed out previously, no 2 grows are alike.

 

[Setting Sun]

In nature, plants don't germinate outside of their final container .

Not that we can't improve on nature in a few areas, but IMO, that's not one of them.

But yeah, we all work out our own methods and what works best for us.

There aren't many hills I choose to die on these days, and certainly not this one, lol.

 

[Munki]

Whew! Ok, I'm a bit but here it goes:

If a plant has unlimited reach in all directions, then no transplanting may be best or is best for some applications. There is one case that would seem to be the exception.

Bonsai Mothers

For a mothering application, they accomplished a 4 1/2 inch square pot size and had a productive mother for 15 years! I guess if you could supplement the lighting on an outdoor grow, you could make a fairer comparison, but that would be a rare grow indeed! All I'm saying is that there is rarely one answer to a type of question unless that answer is, "It depends..."

 

[Munki]

Hi Munki



My friend. Words of wisdom
It is still our unique grow and we have to look at it that way. No two are alike.

Come by my place and advertise all you want. Peeps can really pick up sound knowledge from you. I always have.

Cool, thank you. It seems to be a necessary evil as its tough to get a following amongst all the simultaneous "journals in progress" grows.

 

[Munki]

Munki, I think you've got me convinced ! I think my next grow I'll try a couple of clones in a hempy bucket or bag , should be able to go right from clone cutting through harvest right ?, is it ok to start a clone in a 3-5 gal bag or pot ? I'd love to try a flood table !. Nice thread Munki !

Simple grow bags on a flood table is achievable. Heck you can do a lot of experimentation on a flood table; just need bigger reservoirs.

 

[Munki]

Day 31 for the bagseeds and the Satori are 3 weeks old. I had topped the bagseed plants and they are not skipping a beat. Secondary growth is popping out everywhere!

I apologize for no pics yesterday; distracted by a wonderful afternoon of great weather and company.

Satori 1

Satori 3

Blueberry Wowie

https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/500/080910-pic8.JPG[/IMG

Master Kush
[IMG]https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/500/080910-pic9.JPG

Ogre (my personal favorite)

 

[Munki]

Day 31 for the bagseeds and the Satori are 3 weeks old. I had topped the bagseed plants and they are not skipping a beat. Secondary growth is popping out everywhere!

I apologize for no pics yesterday; distracted by a wonderful afternoon of great weather and company.

Satori 1

Satori 3

Blueberry Wowie

Master Kush

Ogre (my personal favorite)

 

[thefeast]

Are you going to LST Munki?

 

[TorturedSoul]

Don't really know. It will take some testing to really find this out. I may be getting some meters to take objective measurements of different light sources. I know I want to see the raw data and I figure many others do as well.

Plans are to get ...

LUX meter
Quantum PAR meter
Digital Infrared Thermometer
UVB meter

I will need at least a LUX meter to give you a rough comparison. HIDs seem to always list their brightness on lumens instead of LUX.

Lux is just a measurement of lumens... Over the area that it hits, instead of the gross amount coming from the source. Better in a way because you don't have to sit there with a calculator and use the inverse square formula and then account for the amount (or lack of) of reflectivity of your walls and the shape/reflectiveness of your hood. Wikipedia's example is that a 1000 lumen source concentrated in one meter will illuminate that area with 1000 lux but that same source in an area of 100 meters will only illuminate it with 100 lux. Kind of simplistic as it also doesn't take reflectivity into account but it basically shows what we already know (the concept, I mean - not the actual numbers).

But as it still deals with lumen, it's still absolutely weighted towards the human eye and the wavelengths of the source that appear to be brighter to the human eye will give a lux meter higher numbers.

By nature, LEDs are supposed to be set up with the individual wavelengths that the plant uses - many of which are given a very small weight on the lumen scale. So using a lux meter to compare an LED that's designed for growing plants to a traditional MH or HPS - even one that has been built and/or marketed for horticultural use - is akin to comparing apples to... televisions.

IOW, if an LED light reads significantly lower on the lux scale than a HID does, not only is this not a bad thing, it's actually a GOOD thing. And it explains why a 400-watt LED might only state in the specs that it produces 16,000 (whatever) lumens, while a HPS might state 50K.

I've probably made a hash of it, lol. Not feeling very intelligent at the moment. If your lux meter can be configured to use radiant flux instead of luminous flux then you'd remove the whole "as perceived by the human eye" thing. But I don't know if they have that option.

The Quantum PAR meter will be better in showing the amount of usable light being made available to the plants.

MUCH better. I've read that it is still not perfect in that they give some weight to a couple of wavelengths that a plant might not use (or will use with low efficiency) but overall they do what their name states.

I can't use the wattage rating of the LEDs since they just do not compare evenly. Even different wattage LEDs have different efficiencies. The more watts a LED uses, the worse the efficiency. This means that a 3 watt LED is not 3 times as bright as a 1 watt LED, though it will use 3 times the electricity.

And 600-watt HPS are more efficient than 400- and 1000-watt ones (but the 1000-watt ones have more penetration), the 42- or 68-watt (I forget) CFL is somewhat more efficient than the higher and lower wattage models, a 600-watt HPS setup produces less heat than 600-watts of CFLs (and about twice the illumination)... Also a good remote-ballast air-cooled HID produces a large chunk of the heat in the other room and much of that which is actually produced by the bulb is carried away before heating the grow room (and without forcing you to blow all that supplemental CO2 out).

I have pretty much come to the conclusion that the only true way to compare different lights is to turn them on, grow and harvest a crop, and then figure out the time it took, the electricity used - and I mean the total amount for the entire garden, not just the light(s) - and weigh both against the yield.

And I don't think there's a formula for that, lol, because all gardens are not exactly the same and since they are run by people instead of machines there's that pesky human factor. Even two people running the exact same strain (, clones of) with the same light/vent/cooling setup aren't likely to hit the same yield. <LAUGHING> It's not even uncommon for the same grower to have two different yields in two grows.

Rambling ....

YOU'RE rambling?

studies show that Fluoro produces more usable light for cannabis than LED's

Huh? A general-use CFL might produce more PAR than a general-use (as in "reading-light") LED. But if you're talking about a purpose-built horticultural LED... That sounds kind of fishy.

 

[Munki]

TS, I agree with your verbose response! Meters can only approximate what I want to know but it does give me some quantifiable numbers to go with the qualified visual cues I see. BTW, I should have the LUX and temp gun meters today.

 

[Setting Sun]

TS is correct, you can't directly compare lux readings between LED and HID because they are such dissimilar technologies, but what you *can* do is compare coverage and intensity drop by taking lux readings on a grid.

 

[420]