300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

I was thinking of ~50*f water, so not really very cold per say. -just cool enough to cause the OC+ to release less than it was before.

is it necessary? no. but for those whose main hangup from trying CRF's is a lack of flush, it might allow them to try an OC+ grow.

That's a good point, it might get folks to use it who wouldn't otherwise.

thanks SnowBender

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

What wattage are available with CMH lamps?

A smaller one would be idea for my mum and small plants.

Don't just dent em SS and Gator, break it down the middle!

-Go

Here's all the different wattages.

You probably want to just check out the ED-17 and ED-18 bulbs.

I tried running a 150w CMH bulb with a digital ballast and it was no go, so the lower wattages also appear to need a magnetic ballast, although I'm not sure if HPS or MH.

The 250w and 400w run on magnetic HPS ballasts.


take care Go

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

56 DAYS FLOWERING



These pics are with the grow lights off and a couple of CFL's for lighting.




THE LED PLANTS

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

THE HID PLANTS

 

[IrishBoy]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Much Much better with the added light just for pics. really shows off how frosty those girls are! they are beyond frosty!!!! straight murder, fire, kills, dank, bomb or what ever you guys call it over their?lol.

are the HPS girls "praying for mag"? or any idea why the leafs are sticking up like that? sorry if you posted this but how tall were these girls when you LST'ed them? how long did you leave them LST'ed before flowering and whats the total hight on the leds girls?

from the looks of things you just pulled them down a good amount and left them right? I am guessing you didnt keep pulling down that main top, and thats why you still got a main cola? Do you think this helped with better light penetration instead of having all the tops the same height?

My hats off to you SS that is one hell of a grow you got their.

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Both the LED and HID ladies are looking great!

The LED buds are big and solid, and the HID buds have gained a lot of density in the last few days.

Both groups are nice and frosty.

If anything, they're closer now than ever before.

Scanning trichs tonight, the LED plants are still mostly clear with a few cloudy, while the HID plants are mostly cloudy with a few clear. I didn't see any amber trichs at all in either group using my loupe.

I want to harvest with mostly cloudy and a few amber, and I think the HID plants should be there by around Thursday, and the LED plants by around Sunday.

I could not be happier with how they've turned out and I'm completely stoked about the upcoming harvest !!!

 

[j4s2u0]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Gorgeous pcitures as always SettingSun!!!
They both do look amazing...I would give the slight edge to the hid lights,but just by pics alone...lol
Concidering u used led they came out great,no one can say led lighting sucks for budding,here is the proof!
Anyways,great job on the fine looking herbs u got growing there!

 

[endive]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

They both look soooo good!
Either way it goes, looks like Setting Sun is the winner!

I wonder if the difference in lighting spectrum causes a different "need" of nutrients as a different level of chlorophyll absorption (or something) is going on and thus causing the HSP side to use more of a specific set of nutrients than the LED side... sorry thinking out loud again...

 

[endive]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

On an unrelated note... I'm glad I'm not the only one with occasional hairs and lint on my girls from time to time. I'd spend 5 minutes grooming them before I could take a picture.

 

[Two Tokes]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Trim party at SS's house!

I scrolled through up and yhen down and all I could do was drool. They all look wonderful. Can't give a visual edge to either set.

Now back to that party.....

 

[turttle]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

That's if I can get my dentures in.

Used to surf Eureka jetties [gotta wear that Bailey], some friends surfing there found 6 bales of Colombian and called me asking what to do with it. I said wash them in the river, spread them out and dry them b4 they mold and smoke.
Yeah I dont mess around the jetties.Pretty good fishing there.When the surfs up the bay entrence is a pretty popular spot if your pro or just plain crazy lol.Can get some pretty heavy swells and fish.I stay around moonstone and camel rock.
6 bails of colombian..NICE.yeah you half to be carfull in this area.from mendocino all the way to shasta county.Have had some moltimillion dallar grows get busted.And they be carrying the aks and pray to the drug lord.


Don't need to go back to the 'boldt to see them, I can watch occasionally watch them from my backporch. The Ministry of Genetic Information is on the cliff in this pic.

We had a floating dolphin about a month ago [time the image was captured], it got caught in the kelp so it didn't drift away, and like all food in the sea, it didn't go to waste [or waist.]

Wow thats a nice view.Is this where that guy cought whitey breaching on the cali coast like they do in africa at seal island.

ps man your grow is looking good.Crazy how you can grow such a small plant and get them narley nugs.

 

[Propa Gator]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

I'm not surprised that the high power/dollar LED did well, but that that hooded horizontal HPS grew equivalently.
I'm ever-more convinced that genetics rule, and that a wide range of conditions are all good.
The 'luxury consumption curve' applies to all specific growth needs

 

[go green]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Very Very Nice SS. Beautiful grow, and beautiful pictures! Well played bro...well played indeed.



Everybody needs to plus rep + SS for his badass thread and wisdom, and this place being a great conduit for ideas to flourish and tests to be conducted.

-Go!

 

[HorseBadoritz]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

No, my cousin [and a bunch of gulls] scavenged a dolphin. As a gourmand, I need to eat fresh fish, [not foul or fowl.]

Tastes like chicken,

b

B,

dolphin like in mahi or flipper? I know you said fish, but it can be such a loosely used term Not much more fun than catching tail-walkers while you're holding a school behind the boat... though eating them is a close second!

 

[ProblemChild]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

dayum the buds under the LED look so much more devolped as far as structure.. i noticed that the hid colas seem to get skinny as you go down the cola.. as to where the LED's look like they got thick and fat down the whole cola...very interesting SS

 

[endive]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

No, my cousin [and a bunch of gulls] scavenged a dolphin. As a gourmand, I need to eat fresh fish, [not foul or fowl.]

Tastes like chicken,

b

... of the sea? (sorry, I just had to.)

 

[astroastro]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Sun- the plants look fantastic- you ability to dial in the grow space to the LED is- well, I am speechless. Excellent, outstanding.

Down the terminology rat hole, final.

We have been using HID lights for years and these lights were originally designed to aid human eyesight in areas of limited or no ambient light. The output of these lights are described in 'lumens'. Unfortunately a lumen is, in engineering terms, a relative term that refers to how well a light will assist human eyesight. Across the photometric visible spectrum which both humans and plants utilize, the human utilization curve is virtually the inverse to that of the curves in the red and blue spectrum that the photosynthizing portions of the plant utilize. Lumens, and virtually all other human eye related metrics refering to the quality of light, including CCT and CRI, are terrible indicators of how a light source will perform in a horticultural application. These terms are how a manufacturer who is designing a light source for the human eye would describe the technical qualities of the light. My first indoor grow was in '82 or '83 in the great Pacific Northwest, so I too 'grew up' using the term 'lumen'. It took a long time before a friend (who was really a genius with these things) finally pounded it into my thick skull what a useless term the lumen really was for horticultural applications. Yet the term lumen persists, firmly entrenched in the terminology rat hole.

So now we move on to LED's, which from a pure technical standpoint, should easily be the most controllable and efficient form of light for horticultural applications- even better than the CMH bulb as described in this thread. And we find ourselves heading right back down a descriptively meaningless terminology rat hole, only this time the rat hole word is 'Watt'. Watt is, yet again, a poor indicator of the quality of light that a fixture is providing. And it does not have to be this way, as the quality of light (any light) can be described using two terms- wavelength and amplitude. Wavelength describes the relative energy level of the photon itself, and Cla/ Clb are tuned to specific wavelengths. Amplitude tells you how much of any particular wavelength you have. Simple- wavelength and amplitude, wavelength and amplitude, wavelength and amplitude. These two metrics can be easily shown with a simple photometric chart which shows radiant output in terms of true photon count (umol) or energy level (Watt). Either is fairly indicative of the quality of light- photosynthesis is a photon driven event, therefore photon count (umol) could possibly be argued to be better. Also- the indication needs to be absolute, not relative- relative indications, as shown in the CMH chart on page 83, make the CMH look 'shitloads' better than than the HPS at the right side, which, if shown in true absolute terms, would NOT be the case. NOTE THE TERM 'RELATIVE ENERGY' ON THE Y AXIS OF THE CHART. This is how they trick you with charts.

OK- back the LED and the Watt- again, Watt as it seems to be used in the marketing of these lights is a terrible term by which one can judge the quality of the actual light output of the system. An example as follows:

All of my panels are 3w/3 chip led's but I dont power the led's to their full power. Each led received around anywhere between 1.7w and 1.3w depending on the wavelength.

Wouldn't these be better described and marketed as '1.7' and '1.3' Watt 'arrays', 'modules', or perhaps 'light engine'? This is just an observation- I am not ragging on this guys lights, but it is an observation that any design guy familiar with LED technology would point out. To say they are '3W LEDs' leads to all the confusion regarding power that you can clearly see when following this thread thru start to finish. Also, I take issue with describing muti-element LED arrays as 'LEDs'- a true 1W or 3W or 5W 'LED die' is a totally different animal in terms of efficiency and light output compared to an array composed of 3, or 4, or 5, or whatever, individual, 1/4 or 1/2 Watt LED dies- yes, there is a huge difference.

Finally- 'Watt' is a terrible descriptor of performance for an LED because the efficiency of the individual LED's themselves- efficiency = electrical power in vs. radiant power out, is highly variable and dependent upon (1) LED process and materials (the best 'red' are worse than the the best 'blue' by a factor of at least 3x, and the gap is growing daily) (2) bin code (3) junction temperature, and (4) forward current.

Again- the only way to know for sure is to see the photometric output chart, in absolute terms. I cannot say this enough, because it is the simple truth, and everyone interested in LED technology should know this fact. Any repectable LED maker should have this information readily available- either from a spectroradiometer or an integration sphere- we have several versions of both- this is simple, basic engineering equipment in the LED design field.

So everyone can get mad at me for this message and yell at me- I am married so I am accustomed to it. Still a big Seattle Seahawks fan, so you can see the level of abuse I can tolerate. If you can keep your argument strictly to the technical merits of what I have had to say, I am OK.

Thanks again Sun for the fantastic grow. Looking forward to more great work guys like you and Irish and the other guys have done for the humble LED.

 

[HorseBadoritz]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Like this: Bottlenose Dolphin | Cetacean Fact Sheet | American Cetacean Society

Must be a right coast thing, but them there's what we call flipper, one of our long ago relatives and entertaining bowriders.

Dorado, dolphin, mahimahi, all the same critter, tastes like chicken, too! And you are correct, I did use the term loosely intentionally. No, the dead 'fish' hung around for a couple of days before it popped, but once it did, it was consumed.

This is what catching and eating is all about on this end of the gulf stream : Mahi-mahi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Posted a comment on one of your recent pix, Ouch!!!

My what big teeth you have, grandma!

If its the pic I think...I've got nothing against tranvestites, but... Sam the fucking Sham!

b

and fish guts

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Apex predators never need a population check, dude you're talking about me and my family.​

Amamos a las tortugas, especialmente las tortugas en la sopa!​

b

"Although the great white is typically regarded as an apex predator in the wild, it is in rare cases, preyed upon by the larger orca (also known as a killer whale). Interspecific competition between the great white shark and the orca is probable in regions where dietary preferences of both species may overlap.[33] An incident was documented on October 4, 1997 in the Farallon Islands off California.[38] An estimated 4.7–5.3-metre (15–17 ft) female orca was seen purposely inducing tonic immobility in a great white shark. The orca held the shark upside down to induce the tonic immobility, and kept the shark still for fifteen minutes, causing it to suffocate and then proceeded to eat the dead shark's liver.[33][38][39] Another similar attack apparently occurred there in 2000, but its outcome is not clear.[40] After both attacks, the local population of about 100 great whites vanished.[39][40] Following the 2000 incident, a great white with a satellite tag was found to have immediately submerged to depth of 500 m and swam to Hawaii.[40] Prior to the evolution of orcas, great whites may have similarly avoided the much larger shark, C. megalodon."[18][40]



Even at the top of the food chain, you need to keep lookin' over your shoulder

 

[hydronewbie]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Sunnyboy, I'm so glad you provided the service of sharing your comparison grow with this community. I'm really thinking hard about buying an LED. I like that it produces similar or superior results to HID without the heat, energy use and higher risk of fire or skin burns. It seems to me like graduating from a 350 chevy to a 6 cylinder porsche; you pay more for the upfront performance of the porsche but realize an economy of resources over the life of the product. Poor analogy perhaps, but I hope you get the idea. I'm thinking about a new LED purchase in January. Happy Holidays to you and yours. I bet Santa knows what will make great stocking stuffers this year; a few J's of the dank.

Once again, great job with everything including the personal commentary and most interesting grow journal yet.