DeeCee’s Living Organics Garden: No Tillin’
- Thread starter DeeCee112
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #22
I’ll be along! I’m hardly able to be online atm but I will definitely drop in here as much as possible - right in my wheelhouse.
Awesome. What did you use and where did you find it? I’ve had trouble sourcing it as a garden input here (in Aus) and can only find cosmetic versions of it - I’ve wondered if I can just use that but don’t know enough about it to even know which one to choose. Yucca is also fantastic IPM defence against fungus gnats.
Nice lineup of plants
Thanks for coming Amy and any drop in would be very appreciated and valued, I can certainly understand how hard it is to make time with a busy life!
I’ll be taking a page from your book and documenting the insect life I find in the garden as well!
Here’s the first I found - a spider mite a few weeks ago. A foliar spray of insecticidal soap and sulfur soaking every inch of plant has made sure there have been no second sightings!
Yikes! Good that you saw it and took immediate action. No sense getting off on the wrong foot just as you're getting started.Thanks for coming Amy and any drop in would be very appreciated and valued, I can certainly understand how hard it is to make time with a busy life!
I’ll be taking a page from your book and documenting the insect life I find in the garden as well!
Here’s the first I found - a spider mite a few weeks ago. A foliar spray of insecticidal soap and sulfur soaking every inch of plant has made sure there have been no second sightings!
Timhomegrow
Well-Known Member
Pulling up a seat for this grow.
If ylu dont mind, please keep up on the educational part in detail (like you did with your soil recipe) for newbies to LOS like myself
If ylu dont mind, please keep up on the educational part in detail (like you did with your soil recipe) for newbies to LOS like myself
wait for wk or two and keep treating. you have to break the life cycle. one shot and gone won't do it.
Oh ok so not as an ammendment when building the soil - that’s what I thought you and DC meant.
DeeCee, what form is the Yucca extract in, then one you used? Is it a powder?
Yes I have them in the garden already and use them quite a bit. Not as much as you describe tho - I didn’t realise I could go so hard with it.
It's got lots of nutrients and minerals so I suppose one could use it when building the soil. But, since it's a bit gooey and slimey I like to just water it in periodically (like most every time for me). But, either way you do it you're adding great stuff for your plants.
The dried stuff you mentioned would be easier to add to your soil. I just like to add as much "live" stuff as possible so I prefer fresh over dried.
i don’t have a busy life. At all. I live with a chronic health condition and it can get pretty severe sometimes so I am bed “bound” at least half my days and sometimes more. So not a busy life - limited for other reasons . I got started at 420 when I couldn’t get up at all and spent hours reading journals here 
- Thread starter
- #29
Looks good so far, can't wait to see where this goes!
Welcome! It’s headed to bountiful and delicious harvests that’s where!
Absolutely, I am new to it myself but I will document as much as I can, the good and bad for the members here. I promise not to sugar coat anything or hide my screw ups! There’s also a few no til heavyweights around as well that will hopefully weigh in!Pulling up a seat for this grow.
If ylu dont mind, please keep up on the educational part in detail (like you did with your soil recipe) for newbies to LOS like myself
For sure, I’ve sprayed a rotating array of foliars twice weekly, I spotted that bugger two weeks ago and haven’t seen one yet!
Hey Amy I did add it into raw into my soil as well, it is in a powder form, very fine. I also toss it into every can of water I use and top dress. I’m pretty sure you can find aloe Vera flakes or powder on the zon if you can’t find yucca or anything else with saponin.Oh ok so not as an ammendment when building the soil - that’s what I thought you and DC meant.
DeeCee, what form is the Yucca extract in, then one you used? Is it a powder?
Yes I have them in the garden already and use them quite a bit. Not as much as you describe tho - I didn’t realise I could go so hard with it.
I’m so sorry to hear that but grateful to have you here Amy!
- Thread starter
- #30
Fresh Start
Rewind back to around June 8th when I took a Pineapple Express and a northern lights that had both completely stalled had been unhappily vegging for like 4 weeks but looked about a week old with deficiencies.
Seriously, no idea why they weren’t growing but I was set on these genetics so I decided to see what this new soil could do!
….and two clones, one a Trainwreck in a solo cup, not looking the greatest and the other an already well established Blue Gelato. For the record both had either powdery mildew and some bug issues and or both. I sprayed them with an insecticidal soap / sulfur mix 3 in 1 from safers every other day for a week then followed a regular IPM program I’ll touch on later.
The Trainwreck clone I kept for myself is the one of the right. Or left. I can’t remember! This pic is from May 31, she was a little bigger by the time I transplanted. I did not snap a pic of the Blue Gelato but she was the only one doing well, a good size girl in a 1 gallon pot when my friend dropped her off.
I bring this up just to highlight how I’ve started with quite less than top notch plants. In fact if I was growing indoors using a different grow system I would’ve likely tossed them but wait until you see them now!
Potting Way Up
After about 3 weeks lightly covered under a tarp in my garage I filled 4x 20gal fabric pots 3/4 of the way up with my loamy prized soil mixture. You want to leave extra room in the pots so that you can fit top dressings in. Compost, worm castings and amendments will be key to success in helping to keep your batteries charged. I left quite a bit as I plan to use this soil, relatively undisturbed, in these pots for years, so I want lots of room to build it up!
Another absolutely key component to growing this way is mulch. I will spend a bit of time here as this concept is key. It’s ironic, Ive known the value of mulch by using it in my vegetable gardens for years. Using 3-4” of mulch has led me to weed free very productive vegetable gardens that need less water and less attention. Mulch is key to helping keep the top of your soil moist and full of life, sheltering it from wind and rain and harsh light. When you start to see a web of feeder roots along your soil surface you know you’ve got it down! A good quality weed free straw is ideal for this growing style. It allows a cover crop to grow up through it, doesn’t suffocate the soil and is less desirable habitat for fungus gnats. I’ve used natural cedar mulch to some success but have found myself preferring the straw for the above reasons.
Cover Crop
Another facet to no till growing that is popular is using a cover crop. I’m just delving into this myself and have much to learn still but the idea behind a cover crop is to work with the mulch in protecting the top of your soil. Another huge benefit is the plants used are Nitrogen Fixing plants. Without going too deep, these plants grab nitrogen (from the air, not your soil!) and store it, and when chopped and left to feed the vibrant life in your soil, will release it, helping fill your battery. While growing, the roots of cover crops help aerate your soil and are beneficial to the microbe! Win, win, win! Cover crops are widely used by farmers to protect their soil over winter and for the other reasons mentioned. We are not reinventing the wheel or using some new scientific breakthrough here it is quite the opposite, more like going back to the roots of gardening, with a little more knowledge and resources at our fingertips!
There are mixtures of cover crop seeds that include a few varieties like legumes and clovers. I found some red clover mix at a local growing shop in my town that just started and decided to help support them.
I will advise that you plant your cover crop seed as soon as you transplant into your pots. Simply sprinkle the seeds around the pot, except for a couple inches around the base of your cannabis plant. I’ve found that my plants have quickly overgrown them possibly because I waited too long, and also maybe shouldve rolled down the sides of my pots a bit to stop them from shading the clovers. Either way they are slowly growing, we’ll see for next grow if it helps to plant sooner!
Growing Up and Out!
Here are the girls about a week after transplant, getting some photos taken while I did some training and topping. Already they are starting to stretch out in their new roomy digs! There was no transplant shock and they completely woke up and took off! These pictures were taken on June 15!
Well that’s enough for today, tomorrow we will get into my IPM / tea usage which will extremely important for me. I get powdery mildew in my area so bad I see it in the crab grass, and I have friends that were decimated by aphids not far from here!
As always thanks for joining me, I hope you can learn something with me along the way, teach me something, or just sit back and enjoy the show!
Rewind back to around June 8th when I took a Pineapple Express and a northern lights that had both completely stalled had been unhappily vegging for like 4 weeks but looked about a week old with deficiencies.
Seriously, no idea why they weren’t growing but I was set on these genetics so I decided to see what this new soil could do!
….and two clones, one a Trainwreck in a solo cup, not looking the greatest and the other an already well established Blue Gelato. For the record both had either powdery mildew and some bug issues and or both. I sprayed them with an insecticidal soap / sulfur mix 3 in 1 from safers every other day for a week then followed a regular IPM program I’ll touch on later.
The Trainwreck clone I kept for myself is the one of the right. Or left. I can’t remember! This pic is from May 31, she was a little bigger by the time I transplanted. I did not snap a pic of the Blue Gelato but she was the only one doing well, a good size girl in a 1 gallon pot when my friend dropped her off.
I bring this up just to highlight how I’ve started with quite less than top notch plants. In fact if I was growing indoors using a different grow system I would’ve likely tossed them but wait until you see them now!
Potting Way Up
After about 3 weeks lightly covered under a tarp in my garage I filled 4x 20gal fabric pots 3/4 of the way up with my loamy prized soil mixture. You want to leave extra room in the pots so that you can fit top dressings in. Compost, worm castings and amendments will be key to success in helping to keep your batteries charged. I left quite a bit as I plan to use this soil, relatively undisturbed, in these pots for years, so I want lots of room to build it up!
Another absolutely key component to growing this way is mulch. I will spend a bit of time here as this concept is key. It’s ironic, Ive known the value of mulch by using it in my vegetable gardens for years. Using 3-4” of mulch has led me to weed free very productive vegetable gardens that need less water and less attention. Mulch is key to helping keep the top of your soil moist and full of life, sheltering it from wind and rain and harsh light. When you start to see a web of feeder roots along your soil surface you know you’ve got it down! A good quality weed free straw is ideal for this growing style. It allows a cover crop to grow up through it, doesn’t suffocate the soil and is less desirable habitat for fungus gnats. I’ve used natural cedar mulch to some success but have found myself preferring the straw for the above reasons.
Cover Crop
Another facet to no till growing that is popular is using a cover crop. I’m just delving into this myself and have much to learn still but the idea behind a cover crop is to work with the mulch in protecting the top of your soil. Another huge benefit is the plants used are Nitrogen Fixing plants. Without going too deep, these plants grab nitrogen (from the air, not your soil!) and store it, and when chopped and left to feed the vibrant life in your soil, will release it, helping fill your battery. While growing, the roots of cover crops help aerate your soil and are beneficial to the microbe! Win, win, win! Cover crops are widely used by farmers to protect their soil over winter and for the other reasons mentioned. We are not reinventing the wheel or using some new scientific breakthrough here it is quite the opposite, more like going back to the roots of gardening, with a little more knowledge and resources at our fingertips!
There are mixtures of cover crop seeds that include a few varieties like legumes and clovers. I found some red clover mix at a local growing shop in my town that just started and decided to help support them.
I will advise that you plant your cover crop seed as soon as you transplant into your pots. Simply sprinkle the seeds around the pot, except for a couple inches around the base of your cannabis plant. I’ve found that my plants have quickly overgrown them possibly because I waited too long, and also maybe shouldve rolled down the sides of my pots a bit to stop them from shading the clovers. Either way they are slowly growing, we’ll see for next grow if it helps to plant sooner!
Growing Up and Out!
Here are the girls about a week after transplant, getting some photos taken while I did some training and topping. Already they are starting to stretch out in their new roomy digs! There was no transplant shock and they completely woke up and took off! These pictures were taken on June 15!
Well that’s enough for today, tomorrow we will get into my IPM / tea usage which will extremely important for me. I get powdery mildew in my area so bad I see it in the crab grass, and I have friends that were decimated by aphids not far from here!
As always thanks for joining me, I hope you can learn something with me along the way, teach me something, or just sit back and enjoy the show!
Wow, that's quite a difference after potting up in this new soil mix. I have some similar plants that have stalled out. Maybe I'll transplant them in my new mix.
Great job on the tutorials. Keep 'em coming.
Great job on the tutorials. Keep 'em coming.
Great write-up and excellent turnaround DC!
- Thread starter
- #33
Thanks Azimuth, I was very impressed myself! I know you mentioned using a 2 gallon pot, I’m hoping to get to that comparison soon, it’s coming, but I put one plant in a 5gallon and let’s just say it ain’t holding a candle to the 20gals! Go big if you can, it’s worth it.
Shed can you come to my work and boost my self confidence occasionally with your reliable drop in complements and ata boys?
I'd be happy to DC! 
Unfortunately it will have to be virtually. Hope that's okay!
Unfortunately it will have to be virtually. Hope that's okay!
Yeah, unfortunately I grow in a cabinet so pretty limited real estate. That's why I'm planning on supplementing with some homemade organic ferts. I'm doing some experiments in the thread in my sig to try to dial it in.
- Thread starter
- #36
Right on, I just mixed my own top dress from some leftover ingredients of my soil mix. I kinda winged it so no idea how well it’ll work but we’ll see!
I also had some pretty good success in 3 gallon fabric pots using Fox Farms soil base with a cedar mulch on top and then top dressing every 2-3 weeks with worm castings and Gaia Greens dry amendments. I hear Geoflora is very similar and possibly more effective.
BarnacleBill
Well-Known Member
A little late but I'm here for the party! Subscribed....
I've been pretty impressed with the success of the @GeoFlora Nutrients in the multiple comparative grows I've been following. I looked at their ingredient list and seems pretty all inclusive for the nutes that are recommended by various organic growers. Very impressed.
- Thread starter
- #39
Not late at all just getting started
- Thread starter
- #40
Integrated Pest Management
Or, IPM. Very fancy term for how to keep bugs and molds off your garden! I am relatively new to this concept, but have been bitten several times by white powdery mildew. I’ve been very fortunate to never have had issues with any bugs *knocks on wood* and I’m not about to start now! The key word here is Integrated, IPM is not a one stop shop - to be the most effective it needs to be multi-faceted - foliar sprays, beneficial insects, root drenches, proper environment, proper mulch and soil health and tilth and maintaining healthy plants. I’ll hit a few items in this post that I implement and then make sure I highlight through this journal anything I add or use!
I have absorbed much of my no till knowledge from the owner of Build A Soil who delivers an absolutely exceptional video series on you tube of growing this way in a tent at his warehouse. I highly suggest checking it out, he also has a link on his website for a PDF of his IPM program that he put together in concert with the great Clackamas Coots. Anywho, the idea here is to pick a few good foliar spray combinations and root drenches that you can cycle through and apply once or ideally twice a week. The biggest key is prevention. Trust me once WPM hits you are just treading water to the finish of it takes hold and it’s turns a joyous hobby into misery!
Here’s the meat and potats:
Inspection and Maintenance- This is number one, spend some time every week to look at your plants, turn over leafs, many bugs lay eggs on the underside. Inspect stems, look at the soil surface is there bugs buzzing around, if you see unusually dots bust out your pocket microscope and have a look. Catching issues early makes them 1000% easier to contain, eliminate or control than when they have already taken hold.
Ensure you are removing dead foliage, and pruning and trimming your plant so that it isn’t a leafy mass for mold and mildews to hide, if you look at your plant from the side you should be able to see light through it. If it is just a solid green bushy wall you need to do some trimming.
Mulch/Soil Quality - @Nunyabiz cautioned me against cedar mulch and he was right. It worked well for me growing indoors in the winter, but outdoors it is clearly being outperformed by straw. The idea is to protect the soil from sun and wind and prevent weeds but also not compact it or suffocate it. If you can add Neem or Karanja to your original soil mix you’ll get the NPK and the added bug protection. Having quality ingredients and the proper ratios of peat/compost/aeration ensures you have a well draining soil that won’t stay wet and soggy - which is ideal for baddies.
Beneficial Insects - Mother Nature hates voids. If there is a vacancy in your soil whatever dominant bug in the area will setup shop, however if you already have some beneficial insects roaming you don’t need to worry about spotting a few fungus gnats or spider mites because they are just food for the good guys. It is when the population slides too far in either direction you need to step in. I have nematodes in my soil which prey on bug larvae, and am going to get myself some type of predator mites very shortly to let loose. There is plenty of information on the web - if you have an issue you can select from a wide variety of insects that specialize in quelling those uprisings for you - from ladybugs to praying mantis to rove Beatles and mites. Believe it or not most of these are safe for you and your tent as well, you just have to get past having them in there!
Foliar Sprays and Teas
Pick a couple, do some research and rotate applications. Never spray during peak lighting and always test on a small part of plant before widespread application.
Sulfur - great for WPM, molds and mildews, and beneficial micronutrient, can leave a white residue though.
Insecticidal Soap - works well by coating your leaf surface to smoother bugs I’ve used Safers 3 in 1 which is essentially just a combo of sulfur dust and insecticidal soap.
Neem Oil - classic organic gardeners go to. Does not react well with sulfur though, I believe you need to wait a few weeks since last sulfur application. Karanaja can be subbed for Neem, same properties. I follow a guy that throws some dish soap in his as well. Not recommended for use in flower once buds start to form as it can impart a taste to the final products.
Compost Tea - I think the jury is out on whether this is a feel good exercise or if the microbes actually work on leaf surfaces. For the 10 minutes it’s taken me to pour some of my soil drench tea into a sprayer I do it.
Citric Acid - @InTheShed got me on this. Very affordable to buy a basically lifetime supply. Use at 5g per 500ml distilled water. Good for WPM by raising leaf surface PH.
There is a ton out there, like I said the key is to pick a few and rotate through. ALWAYS test a small area first and generally never spray during peak light!
Phew… I hope I got most of that right - much of this is information that is relatively new to me from many different sources and locations, I just hope I can pass it on all combined here for the 420 community that has helped me out so much.
Now for the good stuff! Here are the girls just over a week since the June 15th photos, only 3 weeks from transplant!
Left to Right: Trainwreck, Blue Gelato, Pineapple Express
Trainwreck
Blue Gelato
Pineapple Express
For perspective these girls are in wide 20 gallon pots. I have not had growth this well before and in reality, very little effort. No mixing nutrients, just the odd foliar spray or compost tea and my usual training, watering two to three time a week to ensure the top soil does not dry out (more on this later)
In comparison here is Northern Lights in a 5 gallon mix of straight peat and perlite charged with Gaia Green 4-4-4, and top dressed once.
Not bad, but even close to the vigorous health and size of the no till 20gallon girls!
Well I’d say that’s enough for today!
Next update I will detail my plant training, which in this department I think I can say I am quite experience and good at!
For my fellow Canucks get outside and enjoy Canada Day on Thursday and for my Merican neighbour’s Independence Day!
Or, IPM. Very fancy term for how to keep bugs and molds off your garden! I am relatively new to this concept, but have been bitten several times by white powdery mildew. I’ve been very fortunate to never have had issues with any bugs *knocks on wood* and I’m not about to start now! The key word here is Integrated, IPM is not a one stop shop - to be the most effective it needs to be multi-faceted - foliar sprays, beneficial insects, root drenches, proper environment, proper mulch and soil health and tilth and maintaining healthy plants. I’ll hit a few items in this post that I implement and then make sure I highlight through this journal anything I add or use!
I have absorbed much of my no till knowledge from the owner of Build A Soil who delivers an absolutely exceptional video series on you tube of growing this way in a tent at his warehouse. I highly suggest checking it out, he also has a link on his website for a PDF of his IPM program that he put together in concert with the great Clackamas Coots. Anywho, the idea here is to pick a few good foliar spray combinations and root drenches that you can cycle through and apply once or ideally twice a week. The biggest key is prevention. Trust me once WPM hits you are just treading water to the finish of it takes hold and it’s turns a joyous hobby into misery!
Here’s the meat and potats:
Inspection and Maintenance- This is number one, spend some time every week to look at your plants, turn over leafs, many bugs lay eggs on the underside. Inspect stems, look at the soil surface is there bugs buzzing around, if you see unusually dots bust out your pocket microscope and have a look. Catching issues early makes them 1000% easier to contain, eliminate or control than when they have already taken hold.
Ensure you are removing dead foliage, and pruning and trimming your plant so that it isn’t a leafy mass for mold and mildews to hide, if you look at your plant from the side you should be able to see light through it. If it is just a solid green bushy wall you need to do some trimming.
Mulch/Soil Quality - @Nunyabiz cautioned me against cedar mulch and he was right. It worked well for me growing indoors in the winter, but outdoors it is clearly being outperformed by straw. The idea is to protect the soil from sun and wind and prevent weeds but also not compact it or suffocate it. If you can add Neem or Karanja to your original soil mix you’ll get the NPK and the added bug protection. Having quality ingredients and the proper ratios of peat/compost/aeration ensures you have a well draining soil that won’t stay wet and soggy - which is ideal for baddies.
Beneficial Insects - Mother Nature hates voids. If there is a vacancy in your soil whatever dominant bug in the area will setup shop, however if you already have some beneficial insects roaming you don’t need to worry about spotting a few fungus gnats or spider mites because they are just food for the good guys. It is when the population slides too far in either direction you need to step in. I have nematodes in my soil which prey on bug larvae, and am going to get myself some type of predator mites very shortly to let loose. There is plenty of information on the web - if you have an issue you can select from a wide variety of insects that specialize in quelling those uprisings for you - from ladybugs to praying mantis to rove Beatles and mites. Believe it or not most of these are safe for you and your tent as well, you just have to get past having them in there!
Foliar Sprays and Teas
Pick a couple, do some research and rotate applications. Never spray during peak lighting and always test on a small part of plant before widespread application.
Sulfur - great for WPM, molds and mildews, and beneficial micronutrient, can leave a white residue though.
Insecticidal Soap - works well by coating your leaf surface to smoother bugs I’ve used Safers 3 in 1 which is essentially just a combo of sulfur dust and insecticidal soap.
Neem Oil - classic organic gardeners go to. Does not react well with sulfur though, I believe you need to wait a few weeks since last sulfur application. Karanaja can be subbed for Neem, same properties. I follow a guy that throws some dish soap in his as well. Not recommended for use in flower once buds start to form as it can impart a taste to the final products.
Compost Tea - I think the jury is out on whether this is a feel good exercise or if the microbes actually work on leaf surfaces. For the 10 minutes it’s taken me to pour some of my soil drench tea into a sprayer I do it.
Citric Acid - @InTheShed got me on this. Very affordable to buy a basically lifetime supply. Use at 5g per 500ml distilled water. Good for WPM by raising leaf surface PH.
There is a ton out there, like I said the key is to pick a few and rotate through. ALWAYS test a small area first and generally never spray during peak light!
Phew… I hope I got most of that right - much of this is information that is relatively new to me from many different sources and locations, I just hope I can pass it on all combined here for the 420 community that has helped me out so much.
Now for the good stuff! Here are the girls just over a week since the June 15th photos, only 3 weeks from transplant!
Left to Right: Trainwreck, Blue Gelato, Pineapple Express
Trainwreck
Blue Gelato
Pineapple Express
For perspective these girls are in wide 20 gallon pots. I have not had growth this well before and in reality, very little effort. No mixing nutrients, just the odd foliar spray or compost tea and my usual training, watering two to three time a week to ensure the top soil does not dry out (more on this later)
In comparison here is Northern Lights in a 5 gallon mix of straight peat and perlite charged with Gaia Green 4-4-4, and top dressed once.
Not bad, but even close to the vigorous health and size of the no till 20gallon girls!
Well I’d say that’s enough for today!
Next update I will detail my plant training, which in this department I think I can say I am quite experience and good at!
For my fellow Canucks get outside and enjoy Canada Day on Thursday and for my Merican neighbour’s Independence Day!
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