DWC & Soil: Verb's Purple Puncher Autos, Mars Hydro TS 1000

[Verbalist]

Thanks for the tag that 40% rh maybe the culprit . That rockwool says cover me from the light the algae is getting started . It likes nutrients also !

Anytime and thanks for the input West!
Mentioned that PP#1 and PP#2 been growing separately. PP#1 is inside the tent wheres 40% RH and PP#2 dwc has been placed inside the closet, so I could give her ”perfect” environments.
PP#2 inside the closet has: ~55-60% RH and 26-27C which gives bout 1.4 VPD

They have had and still do have different growing environments so wondering if its RH related?

Ive had and still have the hydroton and RW covered. Just removed them when took pictures.
Had to get creative with tin foil and don’t get confused this pic was taken on day 6 - three fingered leaves just bout tips showing there. Now today is 10th day.

It likes nutrients also !

What did you actually mean by that? Did you mean the algae? Or just generally that I should up my nutes/ppm levels?
Reservoir running now 0.7 EC / 370ppm and theres 0.33ml/l micro & bloom and ~100ppm worth of Terpinator (listed above)

Hey Verbalist!

To figure out the LWA,

First you need to setup your photo spot. It needs to be consistent, that is key. Same exact spot, same angle that the picture is taken from. For myself, I used a pencil mark on my scrog Frame to ensure the phone was placed exactly the same for each photo.

Take your photo.

Download an app called Image Meter. Open the picture you took (use the app to open the picture).
Zoom until your happy with picture.

Click in the app the little angle icon.

Drag you three points to get your angle. Use those exact same three points on the plant each time for measuring to keep consistent.

If you don't want to pay for the app, take a screenshot to save a copy.

Thank you Rex! Know that love you bruv.
If I need help in the future with this thingy, do you mind if I hit you up?

 

[Rexer]

Anytime and thanks for the input West!
Mentioned that PP#1 and PP#2 been growing separately. PP#1 is inside the tent wheres 40% RH and PP#2 dwc has been placed inside the closet, so I could give her ”perfect” environments.
PP#2 inside the closet has: ~55-60% RH and 26-27C which gives bout 1.4 VPD

They have had and still do have different growing environments so wondering if its RH related?

Ive had and still have the hydroton and RW covered. Just removed them when took pictures.
Had to get creative with tin foil and don’t get confused this pic was taken on day 6 - three fingered leaves just bout tips showing there. Now today is 10th day.

What did you actually mean by that? Did you mean the algae? Or just generally that I should up my nutes/ppm levels?
Reservoir running now 0.7 EC / 370ppm and theres 0.33ml/l micro & bloom and ~100ppm worth of Terpinator (listed above)


Thank you Rex! Know that love you bruv.
If I need help in the future with this thingy, do you mind if I hit you up?

Ask away! Lol

 

[FelipeBlu]

@West Hippie meant that algae steals nutrients so you want to prevent it from growing.

Re seedling differences - I try to relax about seedlings - sometimes they just grow weird.

 

[Verbalist]

11/20 Update

Whats good 420 fam?
Been kinda busy lately so got a lot to catch up with.

Let’s start saturday morning with a fat bowl of over month cured, own grown ’organic’ Northern Lights.

11/18 moved PP#2 (DWC) to the tent and sling the @Mars Hydro TS 1000 for them.
Tuned the lamp 20" above and dimmed to 80%. Looking forward to borrow my friends lux meter again to get an accurate read how much it produces for 2x2 area which inside the plants are placed. Wild guess would be something between 400-500umol/s.

So whats for the Blackberry Kush then?
Ugh, haven’t taken the best care of her lately… But tuned two 100W / 4000K(white) LED panels.
Imagine TS 1000 amongst with those temps tends to rise up to 29C at the tips of the BBK colas.
Purple Punches about 40cm lower has nice steady 26C and humidifier keeps the RH at 50%.

11/18 gave Blackberry kush a good flush (~25L tap water pH adjusted to 7.0) and started the drought stress test aka droughting from that point.
Found this article: 3 Tips for Controlled Drought Stress to be nice read and gives you a general idea with soil droughting.
For the first time before irrigation I’m aiming for bout 5 days & happy if I make it to 7 without major wilting.
Big thanks to my brother @Rexer for sharing the angle measurement app Don’t know tho how effective it is with the soil plant. From own experience plants on soil usually keeps the vigor until very end and then suddenly whole plant wilts down. But let’s see!

11/19 Drought stress starting angle (64.5-65°)

As mentioned above Ive neglected her lately. Foliage slowly getting end of the round, but not too worried about it as long as buds keep swelling.

Couple pics from the week. Trichomes are still mostly mix of 80/20 cloudy/clear - aiming for at least about 20-30% amber ones.

200FB262-6044-4832-AD47-C558CCF9EA91.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Nov 20, 2021

11/18
Day 61
BB Kush before flush

3BFCEF54-6680-46E9-8078-F8C1C82ED089.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Nov 20, 2021
• dutch passion

Blackberry Kush auto
11/17
Day 60

FEF6836E-11B1-472B-88AE-576C546AADEB.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Nov 20, 2021

BB Kush
11/19
Day 62
Trichomes - cloudy

CACCAC4B-23E9-4D3E-83D0-BAA8ED6382DE.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Nov 20, 2021

BB Kush
11/19
Day 62
Trichomes - cloudy

4C5AE770-72F7-4C9C-9FF9-55FCE9C7C249.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Nov 20, 2021

11/17
Day 60
BB Kush canopy view

E8906D7E-AED1-4AB1-870A-CD325FCD8838.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Nov 20, 2021
• dutch passion

Blackberry Kush auto
11/19
Day 62

Oh and almost forgot to mention that Purple Punch#1 showed the first pistils 16 days old (11/18)

Making a post about Purple punches l8r. Might do a res change if TDS has dropped more over night - Haven’t checked the water yet today.

Stay safe!
- V

 

[Verbalist]

@West Hippie meant that algae steals nutrients so you want to prevent it from growing.

Re seedling differences - I try to relax about seedlings - sometimes they just grow weird.

Hey Felipe! Thanks for the post.
What you reckon should I take actions or just let it be?

Theres just a slight green hue on the RW slab. Ive got the slab covered with tin foil but that haven’t fixed it - at least yet.
Should I pour water mixed with Hydroguard on it? Would beneficial bacteria fix it at all?

Also wondering if theres some algae on the soil plant as well… very tiny green algae spots top of the soil.
And been wondering why PP#2 starts to wilt like that every day 2-3hrs before lights go off:

First I thought it is just getting tired because Im having a L-sized CO2 bag hanging in my 2x3 tent and bright lights blasting 18h every day.
Co2 levels were measured couple months ago with a similar bag and levels were up to 1300ppm.

What yall think about hydrogen peroxide flush when Ive fed Hydroguard for both plants (hydro & soil)
Reason why Ive fed HG for the soil plant as well is because only had like 4L BioBizz Light mix left when planted it. So used 4liters of BLM and bout 6l of market shitty hot soil which has a bad drainage and has a lot clay on it.
Thought HG would increase beneficial micro life on soil..

 

[Rexer]

Id just keep the RW covered and skip the h202 for the hydro....

That BB Kush look amazing

 

[Verbalist]

Id just keep the RW covered and skip the h202 for the hydro....

That BB Kush look amazing

Thanks bro Actually cut off a test twig couple days ago. Quick dried it so the taste wasn’t the best and many clear trics so the high was more like a head buzz.
Final and ready product should be indica dominant and should put you on a sleeper. Or at least sleepiness was a one of the most common reported effect.


RW covered completely - no light leaks for the algae. And dropped the res water level about 2" below the net cup so it wont saturate RW via hydroton that much.
Trying to minimize cord roots. And 2inches below seems to be ok for now when the longest roots are 6-10".

11/20 roots

Been so busy lately and got a lot to catch up with your journal. see you later on your side!

 

[Verbalist]

11/22 Journal update


Monday folks!
Haven’t updated much about the new Purple Punch project lately.
PP#1 on soil has started the stretch phase and pistils sticking out everywhere Impressed how early it showed the sex and it kinda like skipped ”the early veg” phase. Basicly as soon as first true (5 fingers) were formed it showed the sex and started to mature.
Even tho theres pistils sticking out it should be still in veg and as an autoflower IMO the flowering stage begins when buds start to form and it bursts tens of new calyxes overnight.

Then PP#2 on DWC.. Still waiting for the rapid growth spurts - hopefully by now when first five fingers has formed.
At least looks heaps better than the first DWC attempt with Critical XL!

Oh and during the last night AC and intake fan had caught… at the morning when peeked inside the tent temps were 28-29C and reservoir water temp had risen up to 24.5C (76F).
Quickly lowered the temps down to 24C, humidified RH back to ~55% and had to almost cover the whole reservoir with those frozen plastic thingys - lol idk whats they called for in english.

At least roots were still looking good and didn’t smell at all nor the res water. Once again me prob just overcaring, but better to overcare than neglect.

Date 11/22
Strain(s) Purple Punch auto#1
Day 20 / Week 3
- - -
Tent temp 24.5C
Solution/water temp -
RH 50%
VPD 1.03kPa
Light(s) Mars Hydro TS 1000 @ 80%
- - -
pH -
EC 1.3
TDS -
- - -
* Fertilization & Feed * upped the feed for a bit. She feels kinda N sensitive as well.. Ive fed her about 70-80ppm N and upped Potassium ratios up to 150ppm with Terpinator(idk how much from that is actually K2O)
Also started feeding organic Fulvic & hummic acids amongst with Kelp/seaweed extract.

8D8B3872-CA98-4D61-9154-98DA11E3015F.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Nov 22, 2021

Purple Punch auto#1
11/21
Day 19 above ground

6E0F0B57-EE3C-4C70-8E9E-EC12DA8BE45B.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Nov 22, 2021

Purple Punch auto#1
11/22
Day 20
Pistils

4A7F0B48-B598-4B4A-A625-F6D488665DC0.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Nov 22, 2021

Purple Punch auto#1
11/22
Day 20 above ground

Date 11/22
Strain(s) Purple Punch auto#2
Day 14 / Week 2
- - -
Tent temp 25C
Solution/water temp 21C
RH 55%
VPD 0.93kPa
Light(s) Mars Hydro TS 1000 @ 80%
- - -
pH 5.9 (overnight drifts to 6.2-6.3)
EC 0.6
TDS 325ppm
- - -
* Fertilization & Feed * Made a new reservoir patch since it looked like it was leeching at 0.8EC/~400ppm

New res has again only 0.33ml/l Micro & Bloom as a base. That provides bout (ppm) 25N, 8P & 35K +35Ca & 15Mg, and 1.1ml/l Terpinator should give 40ppm K bump.
Ending EC was 0.6/325ppm and dunno why theres slight leeching still with that low EC.. Overnight EC rose to 0.7 — Hopefully it is just some other concentrated shait which does not absorb with water.

Hopefully that mutation stays just on three finger leave, which actually only has one finger.

A4C8B647-ADDA-4EE9-9F98-A7D874D7B287.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Nov 22, 2021

Purple Punch auto#2
11/21
Day 13
Mutated 3-finger

8E275A1F-83CA-42D3-A855-AE0D09E8F827.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Nov 22, 2021

Purple Punch auto#2
11/22
Day 14 above ground

 

[FelipeBlu]

Maybe it’s your light, but the DWC looks a bit light green to me.

 

[Verbalist]

Maybe it’s your light, but the DWC looks a bit light green to me.

Hey Felipe thanks for the reply!

TS1000 gives little reddish hue, but youre right it is lighter green than her sister was. And theres just a slight chlorosis visible on newest growth.

As mentioned above res has 0.33ml/l Micro & Blom which provides:
N: 25ppm, P: 8ppm K: 25ppm
Ca: 35, Mg: 13 + tap water
S: 20ppm, Fe: 1.5 and other trace elements in small amounts. And additional ~40ppm extra K from Terpinator.

So being said that small amount of micro and bloom MAYBE does not offer enough zinc, manganese or sulfur which could cause slight chlorosis/yellowing/light green hue. I’d up the amounts but for example at 0.8 EC it starts leeching. (At this point I call it leeching when TDS rises 50-100ppm in 12-24hrs)

Should I for example double the dose to 0.66ml/l which would double the NPK and other micros? Whilst ignorine leeching and let it be until she starts to eat properly?
pH being on point - after a res change started from 5.5 and let it slide up to 6.3 before adjusting back to 5.8
Now pretty much hovering between 5.8-6.2

Adjusting the nutrition at this stage isn’t my best area of expertie… Many nutrient schedules instructs for a lot higher doses than I’m doing.

 

[FelipeBlu]

(At this point I call it leeching when TDS rises 50-100ppm in 12-24hrs)

I don’t understand this “leeching”. Isn’t this TDS rise due to water consumption/loss?

Should I for example double the dose to 0.66ml/l which would double the NPK and other micros? Whilst ignorine leeching and let it be until she starts to eat properly?

25 ppm N is probably about half of what she needs at this age.

 

[FelipeBlu]

upped Potassium ratios up to 150ppm with Terpinator(idk how much from that is actually K2O)

Terpinator is 4% K2O - which is 8 ppm K for each ml/gal.

 

[Verbalist]

I don’t understand this “leeching”. Isn’t this TDS rise due to water consumption/loss?

Yes, thats what it actually is.
But when people do have their nutrition balanced so its pretty much equal with the water loss, they tend to think if water level drops and EC rises - plant only drinks and doesn’t eat which is called for the leeching then.
And solution to ”fix” that would be; lower your EC.

This chart is a good example. It is actually very accurate with DWC, but this leeching thing has been a question mark since got it.

 

[Verbalist]

25 ppm N is probably about half of what she needs at this age.

Oh and did you mean she would need half less? Or bout 50ppm in total — which would make sense with some of the feeding schedules.

 

[FelipeBlu]

Yes, thats what it actually is.
But when people do have their nutrition balanced so its pretty much equal with the water loss, they tend to think if water level drops and EC rises - plant only drinks and doesn’t eat which is called for the leeching then.
And solution to ”fix” that would be; lower your EC.

This chart is a good example. It is actually very accurate with DWC, but this leeching thing has been a question mark since got it.

So if I am understanding this, the erroneous conclusion is that if the TDS goes up when the plant is drinking (reservoir level goes down), the reason for the TDS increase is that the plant is “leeching” nutrients back into the reservoir?

While the plant does exude ions (H+ and OH-) and waste products when it uptakes nutrient ions it wants, I don’t think it releases nutrient ions (like NO3- or K+) once they are in the plant.

The solution to water consumption - which will likely increase the EC - is to replace the volume of water - which will result in a lower EC.

 

[FelipeBlu]

Oh and did you mean she would need half less? Or bout 50ppm in total — which would make sense with some of the feeding schedules.

I meant that she should be getting at least 50 ppm N.

 

[Rexer]

FelipeBlu, some of the leeching thinking from Verbalist is in part then to my misunderstanding.

My understanding was when a plant is in a solution that is too low of EC/PPM there can be a "leeching" back into the nutrient solution. Something to do with Osmatic pressure in the membrane? Or some such. I don't remember the exact science behind it (you can bet that I'll be re-reading some articles now).

Not saying your wrong, you know much much more on the subject, but I feel some responsibility for having passed that chart around, and to be honest....I love being wrong (it's a great learning opportunity).

 

[FelipeBlu]

Osmotic pressure actually works the other way - if the reservoir EC is much higher than the concentration in the plant, the plant will release fluid (not nutrients) back into the reservoir in an attempt to equalize the concentration. This results in dehydration in the leaf tips (“nute burn”) AND a lower EC in the reservoir.

 

[Verbalist]

So if I am understanding this, the erroneous conclusion is that if the TDS goes up when the plant is drinking (reservoir level goes down), the reason for the TDS increase is that the plant is “leeching” nutrients back into the reservoir?

While the plant does exude ions (H+ and OH-) and waste products when it uptakes nutrient ions it wants, I don’t think it releases nutrient ions (like NO3- or K+) once they are in the plant.

The solution to water consumption - which will likely increase the EC - is to replace the volume of water - which will result in a lower EC.

Thats why youre the man!
Ive actually topped every time with plain tap water (that small amounts tho it hasn’t lowered the EC really) but same thingy - try to bring it back to the starting EC.

Still think that ”leeching” thing isn’t like a total myth.. There might be like a situation when your plant drinks a gallon or more per day and because of reson X plant doesn’t eat that causes more EC rising in a whole lot bigger scale.

I meant that she should be getting at least 50 ppm N.

I appreciate it! Next morning when topping res I’ll double the base nutes, or at least micro..
Ive tried to be careful as possible with this one, since last dwc was..meh. But for sure PP#2 is a small one for 14 days old.

 

[Rexer]

Osmotic pressure actually works the other way - if the reservoir EC is much higher than the concentration in the plant, the plant will release fluid (not nutrients) back into the reservoir in an attempt to equalize the concentration. This results in dehydration in the leaf tips (“nute burn”) AND a lower EC in the reservoir.

True, but in a solution where the EC is much lower, then wouldnt the opposite happen? And that would "pull" material(s)/nutes from the plant back into the solution in an attempt to equalize the Osmatic pressure/concentration?

Thank you for taking the time as always! Your comprehension on these subjects is outstanding!

Hope I'm not mucking up others understanding