First Timer - Soil - 600W LED - White Widow & Candy Cane Autos - 2x4x7 Tent

[knighthawktfc]

Day 21(a) - (Morning\afternoon) The Adventure of the New Window AC


Overview:

....sike..
I don't have a real update till later today when lights-out is finished. Though spot checking them this morning while refilling humidifier showed some growth I didn't even have time to bust out the ruler or anything. I got up at 7am and started the new AC window install before it got hot (and rainy). I just finished up now with everything around 3pm. Don't ask technically the swap out only took 2hr, but the re-insulating, finding vibration points to shimmy with rubber padding and foam etc etc all took time not to mention ended up needing to run to the store to pick up some more foam.

Good news is while I was gone with the lights on the new ac kept the room at 70d (coldest I've ever had it) without even much insulation around the window (just enough to block big gaps), and by mistake before I left I had it on 70... and also it tends to cool the room 1 below the setting (we'll see how long that lasts lol) so I actually had to quickly turn it up before it froze my girls.

Thus far it's done all this without ever drawing the 6.2-6.3 amps it's rated for, which is interesting cause I had it on high (which is crazy loud but also crazy air flow cooling with compressor on and only could spot peeks of 5.8-5.9, maybe if I put dehumid on it'll pull the full thing.... whatever i'm rambling... bottom line, thus far after a couple hours she's working good and doing what I wanted. Too boot, checking with the dba sound meter, with the fan on low, and with the exception of the exact moment the compressor kicks on\off she runs 2-3db quieter @55-56dba (advertised 54 but my install is um..less than 'standard'). Now with the fan on medium it runs same as old one at 58dba, and it's 63 with it on high, I can't think of a time I'm ever going to even need high. The only down side is the compressor kicking off (way more than on) is like loud...actually not so much loud as is shakes my fucking wall, my last one did that too but it was like louder inside but less 'vibration' in the wall\window itself... if you know what I'm trying to say, it was more of a contained sound. I share a nearby wall with a neighbor (townhomes) and it's her bedroom, I hope she don't notice, cause I do - eh maybe some I can tweak a little when I feeling up to it.

I will do real update tonight with daily photos,etc. I will also try some training tonight, the girls both needed some this morning, beotches is getty too bushy for their own good. Side note I picked up some pvc stuff today from THD, gonna make me some cute little light traps for the 2-3" side\cord vents that I keep open, easy as pie with some 2" pvc and some 90d turn-na-ma-bob pieces. Now I just gotta find that crappy hack saw i know I have somewhere in the garage. Exhausted - I'm not the diy type skill wise, even though mentally and at heart I am.

Time to relax and enjoy a frozen Mai Tai and then cook me a steak for a job well done...well at least for a job-done. LMAO.

 

[RoyMoss1987]

Day 20 - Morning\Afternoon - First Real Feeding Day


Overview:
So temps were all in range again (maybe I should only mention from here on out if they are not), 72-82; RH 45-68% last 24hr.
Neither seems to add height since yesterday, though out leaves near the edge of pot seems to get bigger\grow a little... totally rubbing the edges now. height thing could be I lower the light yesterday, could be I topped them and their still pissed off at me a little, which I can understand, the place where I cut though the little top side growth tips themselves though did add a little girth so they were not completely stunted.

I watered today, they both weighted at or under 14lbs, More on that later. I added a 90d (45 left, 45 right) rotating fan to the set up who's 'low' setting is fairly gentle, I show pics of that tomorrow (added it just 1min before lights out so no time for pics). I put the other fan I'd been talking about the 'lower' one back to 'low' from it's high setting. That said while I did find some leaves that were touching again today (boo!), I only found one minor one that had transpiration water spots so I think the slightly added air movement did help a little.

I bought a new AC for the room, have not hooked it up yet, waiting for a cool morning to do it, I figure that's the best time while there is also some light out outside to see, hopefully that day will be tomorrow.


Top Shots:



Miss Cane:


Sides: Totally growing into the pot now, I might have to some how train them to grow up..
idk... maybe raise the side lights even higher? then again they're borderline pointless at that
point imho.


Closeups: Not really anything to say here lol, other than where I cut her continued to grow a little.


Mrs. Widow:


Sides: Lower leaves were very droopy today, they were sitting ON the soil for the most part.
I figured she probably was telling me it was water time, also she was smellier than yesterday
if that makes any sense.


Closeups: Progress to my eye on those two growth tips where I snipped yesterday, other than that not much to say
I did find the very tip\point of one of the fan leaves like missing, like the last 2mm of it?
I don't know what the hell that was, I assume either today or yesterday in all the movement I must of caused it.
Like I said she's a little on the crispy side in terms of leaves so I have to be real careful.



Watering:

So I check the soil today with mr.pinky as usual, first knuckle dust\dry, second knuckle...eh..barely damp in some areas (edges), but I would say still damp under all shaded areas near the stem. I lifted each pot, CC immediately stuck me as light, WW eh lighter than yesterday but hard to tell. I kind of would hate to water them on different days when they both take the same nutes, so I yanked them gently out of the tent and put them on the scale. CC 13-14, WW 14. I then whipped out the shitty meters... dry at 3" dry at 5" and wetter but still high end of 'dry' as far down as I could go on CC, WW was about the same though all the way down I would say it was high-dry very very low 'moist'. Decided fuck it, time to water, it's probably 12-18hr early on WW but so be it.

First I cut up little mini plastic cups to fit under the pot screen to catch the run-off (if i could) more directly without touching saucer.
All brand new cups I picked up yesterday think I got a set of like 50 for 99cents at walmart.. figured they'd be handy as hell for all this crap.

Nutes: Today I started with Veg Nutes on the Technaflora recipe for success, other than Cal-mag, I used 1/3rd dose for this first time (boost\grow\trivealive\sugardaddy), on the cal-mag I went 75-80% - (2ml for the gallon instead of 2.5ml).
PPM was about 400-420 (lol) after the ph'ing up from 5.4 to 6.6-6.7. Order: Boost first, little shake and swirl to the distilled bottle, then Grow, then a minor shake\swirl, then the T-Alive, little swirl, then the Sugardaddy, swirl, then the calmag, then swirl. Then I actually let it sit for about 2-3 minutes before testing\adjusting ph. I used my new syringes for all this, it was fun, and easier than measuring things with 1.25ml+ spoons I have (less chance of spillage\waste, and more exact), paranoid I flushed the syringe with a little distilled between each measuring, not wanting to taint one solution with a drop of another.

PPM IN: ~420, Full veg recipe per sheet says should be roughly ~1000ppm. So really I guess I went more like 40% that 33%... whatever probably the extra cal-mag bumping it from ~350 to 400....

I took a different approach this time around with actual watering.. less babying though still took too long:

First five\10min: (95% around edge\2" inward; using small water pitcher)
500ml to CC
500ml to WW
500ml to CC
500ml to WW
Waited about 5min
200ml to CC - more on the 2-3" in from edge area
200ml to WW - more on the 2-3" in from the edge area
(Running total: 1200ml)
Waited about 15 min for that 1200 to sink in.
...nothing...out he bottom.
200ml to CC - 85% right on edges
200ml to WW - 85% right on edges
(running total: 1400ml each - about what I think they needed)
Waited about 5-10 minutes. (nothing...gotta be shitting me right?)
200-225ml to CC - via squeeze controllable bottle 80% edge'ish area.20% middle.
200-225ml to CC - via squeeze controllable bottle 80% edge'ish area.20% middle.
(1600ml ish each)
Waited about 5-10 minutes maybe little more.
Some drops started, so waited another 5min playing around with pots and cups and crap trying to position stuff to catch drops.

This went on for like 20 minutes... till I had some stuff to test.
CC: ppm out 240 ph 5.7
WW: ppm out 225 ph 5.6
Eventually got about 150-200ml out of each.

Because the grate they sit on bend inward a little (making most of the run off come out one side of the pot), I turned both pots about 180 degrees. I then watered them again each with about 200ml and to be honest I was favoring the side away from where I thought it would drain.
CC: 200ml
WW 200ml
Waited about 5min and tried to get updated samples from this point as "tail end"
(~ about 1825ml each ; used up the gallon , keep in mind some got wasted during ph'ing process before hand that's where most of the missing ~100ml went (~3750ml in a gallon))

The cut-cups were sort of working, seemed to do best under the newer and wider holes I put in under the center'ish area of pots. actually I don't think I noticed anything come out the 'edge' holes I've drilled ever.. unless I pick up the pots and swish them around
to the side..etc. That said testing the cut-cup run off and the suctioned from saucer run off .. the ph difference was maybe 0.1. not major and makes me think, maybe not interfering as much as I might have hoped.

Tail end run off prior to lights going out (was still slowly draining):
CC: ppm ~230 (229-240) PH: 5.8-6.0 adjusted (5.69-5.81 on meter) btw also tested with droplets light orange for rough sanity check
WW: ppm ~230 (225-238) PH: 5.7-5.9 adjusted (5.61-5.72 on meter) btw also tested with droplets light orange for rough sanity check
Overall still scary ph for the run off, but slightly better than last watering.

Overall out by lights out was roughly ~300ml a piece of 1800, ~15%...with more to come while they sleep no doubt.. probably another 100-150ml is my guess, so 20-25%. I'm hoping tonight what's left to come out comes out closer to 6.0 than anything thus far, if I get some 5.85-5.9x meter readings I'll stop worrying about it - till I have too as adjusted that would be about 6\6.1.

Other\related to watering: I re-calibrated my pen again today before all this... turns out it was 'perfectly' calibrated even better prior to using the 7\4 solutions vs the 6.86\4.01 dissolving stuff originally used... Fuck my life I should have just left it alone when it read the 7.04 as 7.1, as my pen cal's to 6.86. I went ahead and cal'd it with the 7.04, so will read 6.85 basically meaning I gotta kind of + 0.1 or 0.2) to any reading I get. lol See what I get for not trusting I did everything right the first time ( I did).


AC:
I picked up an LG 8000btu unit yesterday. FU home depot online for telling me there were 7 at a near by store... There were none, had to then go 10miles away, and FU home depot employee who was completely unhelpful in double checking for me or explaining why the site was so damn wrong (they don't even carry the LG's there... each store carries different set in a region, some LG some GE some Fridgidare,etc). BTW interesting that the 8015e model and 8016er are in the same pile, difference is one takes r410 gas and 6.5 amps the other 6.2amps and r32 gas, I grabbed the 8016er as that's the one I looked up online which hilariously they state takes 6.3amps (lg's site too). Real encouraging huh. Anyway I got it unpacked, and now I await a cool morning between 6am and 9am so that I can swap it out without too much different in the temps. Hopefully it goes well, maybe tomorrow.

Random:
I picked up an air bubble stuff yesterday...no bomb threats this time! I forgot to use it today...lol FML. My procedure will be though to bubble the water prior to nuting it or ph'ing it. That way the bubble stone only gets distilled 7.0( or there about) water inside it... I don't want remnants of stuff contaminating other stuff. I feel like this may be all overkill anyway. I did after the first 500ml to each plant remember the o2 and just shuck the hell out of the jug.. probably did nothing.

Also my diet officially ended yesterday on schedule, lost 2-3 more lbs that I even wanted too, now <155. So I can add a couple hundred calories to my daily intake now, basically I'll still be 'tracking' for another 2 weeks but mainly because I need to make sure I take in more - lol, body is so used to ~1500 I need to let it know ~1800-1900 is now ok! I started at about 170 2 months ago, no working out (unlike last time around when I went from 180 to 155), just smart and anal eating choices (most bang for buck calories wise) and anal about tracking everything in. To those out there trying to lose weight... it's the hardest part for me but... dumping the soda for no-cal favored water is 1/3-1/2 the battle. Basically I'll eat about just the same as now, only I can add back a cocktail\beer or two finally!

Another way to long chapter completed.

Maybe I have misread your posts, but if you are doing the knuckle test to see if the top soil is dry, and are watering almost every day...you're doing what I did to my current plant and overwatering.

I water every 5-7 days now, solely depending on weight and my plant went from dying to healthy in a week.

Check out this thread, saved my plants life:
The Proper Way to Water a Potted Plant

You don't have symptoms yet, but it took a while until I saw them too.

 

[RoyMoss1987]

The Proper Way to Water a Potted Plant

I don't know what happened to my post there, but it got all messed up.

 

[knighthawktfc]

Maybe I have misread your posts, but if you are doing the knuckle test to see if the top soil is dry, and are watering almost every day...you're doing what I did to my current plant and overwatering.

I water every 5-7 days now, solely depending on weight and my plant went from dying to healthy in a week.

Check out this thread, saved my plants life:
The Proper Way to Water a Potted Plant

You don't have symptoms yet, but it took a while until I saw them too.

Yeah you misread, probably skimmed over my report (believe me I don't expect anyone to read all the details)... but I do ALL 3 checks.

So I check the soil today with mr.pinky as usual, first knuckle dust\dry, second knuckle...eh..barely damp in some areas (edges), but I would say still damp under all shaded areas near the stem. I lifted each pot, CC immediately stuck me as light, WW eh lighter than yesterday but hard to tell. I kind of would hate to water them on different days when they both take the same nutes, so I yanked them gently out of the tent and put them on the scale. CC 13-14, WW 14. I then whipped out the shitty meters... dry at 3" dry at 5" and wetter but still high end of 'dry' as far down as I could go on CC, WW was about the same though all the way down I would say it was high-dry very very low 'moist'. Decided fuck it, time to water, it's probably 12-18hr early on WW but so be it.

a) Finger tells me if I even need to consider watering.
b) Then I' whip out the meter...and check out down at 6"+ which I don't really trust for anything but ball-park.
c) Then if I think I want to water I pull them out and weigh them on scale, they are ~18 fully watered, so if they are at 14 or below I consider it, if at 13.. I water, they were 11lbs with fully bone dry soil pre-day 0. This is the most reliable indicator to me.

I have never watered every day or ever other I'm too paranoid about over-watering to ever do that unless I was in coco or something, I watered on day 0 (before seed), day 1-4 (little mist during days 1-5 cause had very low humidity issues) ,day 9 full, day 15 full, day 20 full. All according to that very good guide.

Curious though are you say maybe I should wait till like 12lbs?

 

[RoyMoss1987]

Yeah you misread, probably skimmed over my report (believe me I don't expect anyone to read all the details)... but I do ALL 3 checks.


a) Finger tells me if I even need to consider watering.
b) Then I' whip out the meter...and check out down at 6"+ which I don't really trust for anything but ball-park.
c) Then if I think I want to water I pull them out and weigh them on scale, they are ~18 fully watered, so if they are at 14 or below I consider it, if at 13.. I water, they were 11lbs with fully bone dry soil pre-day 0. This is the most reliable indicator to me.

I have never watered every day or ever other I'm too paranoid about over-watering to ever do that unless I was in coco or something, I watered on day 0 (before seed), day 1-4 (little mist during days 1-5 cause had very low humidity issues) ,day 9 full, day 15 full, day 20 full. All according to that very good guide.

Curious though are you say maybe I should wait till like 12lbs?

From what I have read, you want them to dry out as much as possible without underwatering symptoms. The roots chase the water, so the further down the water goes, the further down the roots go.

Also, if they don't chase the water, they don't grow. If your roots don't grow, your plant doesn't grow. Did you check out that forum? They explain it much better there. It's a lengthy read though.

 

[nzwgb]

Wow I'm still reading first post. Very similar to my equipment etc.
Subscribed

 

[knighthawktfc]

From what I have read, you want them to dry out as much as possible without underwatering symptoms. The roots chase the water, so the further down the water goes, the further down the roots go.

Also, if they don't chase the water, they don't grow. If your roots don't grow, your plant doesn't grow. Did you check out that forum? They explain it much better there. It's a lengthy read though.

Yeah I have as I said read that post, many times.

 

[KevinL]

Looking good man, nice job on the topping. Also, I wanted to ask, how do you like using that K3 L600? I'm making a light purchase, and have been looking around last minute, just to see if anything else catches my attention..

 

[knighthawktfc]

Day 21 - Evening - Time for a little bending.


Overview: Temps and RH were in range last 24...except for about 2hr early this morning when changing AC's the RH hit low 70%. Rest of the day it's been staying more toward 60.. little usual so I've removed the 'helper' container again for next 24 to see how things play out now that I can keep the outer room at a pretty constant 73. As for growth WW picked up some height back to about 5 1/2", now as did cc who's about 5" again. So much bushy undergrowth it's really becoming a problem on them both but especially CC. Some attempt at training was made, pics toward the end. Big mistake I think I made not letting them get taller in the first week before bringing light down. Live you learn.


Top Shots:


Miss Cane:


Sides - Everything is growing into each other.


Closeups - I so badly want to trim those two main monster fan leaves... but of course I'm not going too.


Mrs Widow:


Sides - At least she has some height to help sort of work the problem.


Closeups - things are marginally better with the ww spacing but still so tight.




So I started trying to gently bend stems tonight on both plants, Miss Cane is a mess, idk what I can really do but I at least tried to coach some stems\leaves out of the way or other wise expose some the undergrowth more, frankly where really didn't seem an opportunity yet to stake\tie anything that wouldn't have just caused more problems so I stuck with just some manual training. See what tomorrow brings.




As for the Mrs. Widow I gave her the same treatment and found a couple places were I could start to bend things more permanently without it getting in the way of other things, or at least I did in a couple areas. I used garden training wire for those areas.
The post pics:



Will they still love me in the morning? /s

Long day... I'm out.

 

[knighthawktfc]

Looking good man, nice job on the topping. Also, I wanted to ask, how do you like using that K3 L600? I'm making a light purchase, and have been looking around last minute, just to see if anything else catches my attention..

Thanks, we'll see how it goes with the toppings, girls seem to be about back to their usual daily progress tonight.

So far so good. I mean I wish it had like a veg-only switch (it's all or nothing) which would have been handy maybe first 10 days, but other than that I have no complaints. Doesn't run too hot, about ~7-10d above ambient in terms of exhaust and otherwise stays cool to the touch (it should , it has 6 independent fans that are pretty quiet and that intake from the top and exhaust via the 4 sides). IDK so far it seems to be delivering.

 

[knighthawktfc]

Day 22 - Week four begins.


Overview:
Last 12 hr temps\RH in range 70-79d (less flux baby, she did have an hour at 68 yesterday when room was at 70 for bit), and RH 45-70, spot checking at 1am and 5am was 55-60, don't really want it over 60 anymore.
CC grew a tiny bit 5.1\5.15in now, WW grew quite a bit, she's now a solid 6". I have not moved the main light so WW is about 25-26" from the light... I'm gonna let that get to around 24 before I think about any adjustment based upon what I'm seeing\not seeing on her...plan being to let it get there and give\take inch leave it there.

The response 8hr after training was eh.. marginal but still noticeable, particularly on Mrs.Widow where I had her staked or tied, as expected (though thought it might take another few hours), growth was already point up again. As for Miss Cane, well she put herself back to her usual messy self, but still I could sort of tell where I had done some encouraging ~8-9hr before.

So of course I gave them each other treatment. Miss Cane this time got a couple soft pipe cleaners and I think one area of green garden wire. Mrs.Widow got 2-3 more garden wires and one or two pipe cleaners. Basically I mostly trying to keep the too main top fan leaves out of the got damn way of every thing but it's not really possible, so I'm slowly working them to like grow down\below some of the other stuff... it's not really working but we'll see.

I moved the side lights on Miss Cane's side down about 2-3 inches (sort of back to where they originally were before I raised them), and angled them a tad different, little more toward the edge of the pot. I left Mrs. Widows basically untouched. I turned fan 2 on low, tweaked it a hair and fan3 got tweaked ever so slightly.


Top Shots:


BTW that accurite doesn't actually sit there anymore, I keep her on the pole toward the left back.
I just put it there every morning for the "top shots" to be fairly consistent... so that top of 79,
may actually be 81 when under full lights.


Miss Cane:


Sides - "First you cut my head off... then you bend me to hell last night... whatever daddy
I still love you enough to keep growing."



Closeups - Maybe I should try ponytailing up those huge top fan leaves tonight for a few hours????
It's sort of the opposite I think of what I want them doing training wise but at the same time
I do need what's underneath to grow out to overcome the fans, and that may never happen
if don't do anything right?


Mrs. Widow:


Sides - "You only think you can keep me from growing taller... I will reach that damn light if I have to grow ~1/2" every 12hr damn you! You can't keep me tied down!"


Closeups - Unlike the CC who is just too short, maybe tomorrow I can consider putting this girl's stem on it's side a little, then again it's pretty fucking thick, I should have started training well before now I think.


Other:
Only other thing I think of note was I found one leaf of CC that looked straight blistered (as I recall this one was sweating yesterday so I'm gonna assume it's related to that), you can see it in the CC close ups, and another that had yet again been caught under other growth and was sweating, tried to solve that with some training and pipe cleaners but it's in tough spot atm to do anything about.

Spot checked leaves and pot areas with the temp-laser.. nothing about 74-75, pots are at 78-77.
Heat sinks on 2 of the side lights (The cool ones that have full 12 par) were 130f, that was odd cause couple days ago they were like 109-112, so part of reason why I put MrFan#2 back into play to move some air around that middle area and hopefully the heat sinks along with it.

Trying out mr. humidifier at a ever so slightly less setting for next 24.... kind of don't want to see 70RH high again tomorrow.

That is all really, guess in theory this should be about the final week of 100% veg, will keep at some of the training as best I can, gonna get more aggressive tomorrow. I'll try and remember to take more training related shots tomorrow.

 

[knighthawktfc]

Day 23 - (Morning) - Child Abuse ...with pics!


Overview:
Environment was stable again over last 24, like I wanted RH came down a tad to 48-68, sat around 58 during lights on. Temps were even more stable 72-77 (really meant about 75-79 under plants), I actually had the outside room at 74 most the night...just wanted to see, will keep at 73 though cause yesterday evening I added a 5th light, one of the little 36w tao's.. put on the back of Miss Cane's side just hanging against the wall about 1" or so lower than the main light. Tweaked my 3rd fan (The moving one) again this morning, just swapped the coffee container it was sitting on top of with a slightly higher one I had, makes it so the lower part of the fan actually hits the pot edges, which is sort of exactly what I want it doing since so much material now kind of sits on the the pot edges.

Oh progress... yeah both the girls grew over night. Miss Cane is now 6" and Mrs Widow now 6.5", that's roughly 1/2ich each in 24hr. Also Mrs. Widow ... don't know how to say it but opened up a bit with the training I did, looks bit less like a bush and more a plant now. Miss Cane didn't quite have the same reaction, in fact see seemed to want resist her 'lite' training...or put another another way she snapped back into old positions and her bushiness was frankly down right out of control this morning in my opinion.

So of course this morning I went to town on the ladies yet again... more on that later.


Top Shots (before big training session #2):

A little better consistency...daddy likes, will try another tiny adjustment in humidity today.
Aiming for 45-62 for next two weeks..then 4x-55. 5th light is just above that red spot at
top of last photo even with about the left bottom vent edge.

Miss Cane:


Sides: She grew good 1/2" yesterday FINALLY, hopefully I get at least one more day like that
so that it adds a little more clearance between stuff STAT.


Closeups: Diz beotch be out of control with the bushiness, something must be done, time for a shave.
As much as I want to chop the two top fan leaves I know I can't so the middle or lower ones are
gonna have to go to make room to tie down the rest of this lady.


Mrs. Widow:


Sides: Oh yeah baby she's starting to like open up a little... and that added 1/2" in last 24hr
really helped and it wasn't just in 'height' but outward too, maybe this LST stuff really is key.



Closeups: I'm was ecstatic went I took a good look at her today, not that two main top fan leaves
are not a problem, but she opened up enough in last 24hr that I don't think I need to give her
a shave.... just another good beating and some more lashings.



So about that 5th light:

So yesterday I figured I have to get some more light under Miss Cane, at least in the short run because there so much damn growth under her being blocked by these massive fan leaves both top and middle, that they can't seem to get enough to break-out on their own. I thought about sticking a desk lamp and low wattage led sort of right up on her in certain spots but noticed the lights I have left barely fit into a the desk lamps i have, and then there is the hacky way I'd have to arrange it all...and it sort of would defeat a little bit of what I'm actually trying to do which is get her to putt on some more height...before having her bush come out the side. sigh.

So I got one of the haning socket things I thought would basically go to waste short of an emergency jimmy'd it up such that it hung about even with my main light and screwed in one of the two remaining socket led's I had, the 36w(20wall) Tao-something-or-others. Just hung it behind Miss Cane against the tent wall, and turned her such and pushed her a inch more back than usual such that I hoped a certain most painful area got at least a little more light - I know I'm wasting at least 1/2 those watts though with it against the wall but it's the best I can do atm. Next grow, I'm building my own .75" or 1" pvc contraption\framing inside the tent to facilitate sh1t the way I want it.

Did it help? Will I keep it around... I don't know yet, if it did in last 1/2 day it was marginal.


Training Session #2 - Child Abuse round 1. With pics

So I did something I probably should not have done today but I really felt like I had to do something about CC's leaf situation. Today was the first day I didn't find any serious leaf-over\stuck-to leaf situation causing sweating.
However there were many leaves touching and all bunched up only reason for no sweating was probably the addition yesterday of fan#2 (we'll call him middle-fan) back into the game.

So I took a good 20-30 minutes looking over Miss Cane, there were 6 key fan leaves all causing issues, 2 (the top most), I just can't remove per everything I've read, especially with an auto. 2 others (in the middle) if I removed (opposite sides of the same node\branching), would create some clearance for me to do some tie downs of other stuff in each area, and also allow me to bring the top2 fan leaves causing issue lower. 2 other (very low) are just problematic that they're growing into shit and into the pot..and to some extent... literally growing at like dirt level. There were 2 others actually that also were candidate but they had like mini-branches themselves and what looked like would eventually be bud sites so I nixed that idea from jump street.. at least for now cause IDK wtf I'm doing yet. lol


So cleaned off my fiskers with rubbing alcohol and snipped at 45d angles not at but damn close too the base stem, these were two middle fan leaves that had no other branching or growth on them and didn't look to my untrained eye would any time soon if ever. This I hope, I pray gave me the most bang for the buck damage wise. With them gone I was able to some serious abuse on Miss cane with my fingers and wire, and pipe cleaners. I was gentle...but with purpose, not like day before where I was probably too gentle, nope today she was getting a full on lashing. I probably stressed the living hell out of her today, I don't plan on touching her tomorrow really, maybe a gentle tweak at the top or minor adjusting checking of her lashing but I need to let her rest I think.

The sacrificed leaves.

If I can help it I don't plan on removing any more leaves from her, on purpose anyway.
Also some how some way it my abuse session I fking kocked off part of some undergrowth
leave, small guy too (.25")...sigh.

Miss Cane - Post child abuse


Daaaam she be looking haggard afer all that.
"It's for your own good! This is hurting me more than it's hurting you!"


Now on to Mrs.Widow.
Having already been lashed down more than CC and having started to recover and open up from that, I took things up a level today, I was gonna wait a day, but idk...I don't think I got too much time, rather beat her up now a give her final veg days to recovery. Anyway. So I got rough with her and added about 4 more tie downs, in fact I think the only thing not tied down is either at dirt-level, or they very top growth shoots and fans,who like with CC I man-handled a bit for directional control but unlike CC, left untied. I left them untied cause for now.. I need them where they to least interfear with everything else, maybe later in the week that will change (I want them going up and out hopefully).

Mrs. Widow after round-2 of lashings.

I can amost see down through her now. Tomorrow I swap some of the pipe cleaners for wire.
I've been using pipe-cleaners where I just want to coach a little, and where there is sensitive
other growth near-by the rubbing\contact point, wire where I either need more stregth (like steaking)
or I wasn't as paranoid about stress points.


Post - Session wide\overview shot


BTW during all this I saw some white hair or two near node interconnects and some bulging...
Am I wrong to think that's the very begining of pre-flower? Honestly I didn't pay much
attention today today, saying... I'll look again tomorrow and maybe snap some close ups, though
my camara acutually sucks for anything closer than about 2ft away.

So...
Just how bad did I fuck that up?

 

[Juny360]

Day 23 - (Morning) - Child Abuse ...with pics!


Overview:
Environment was stable again over last 24, like I wanted RH came down a tad to 48-68, sat around 58 during lights on. Temps were even more stable 72-77 (really meant about 75-79 under plants), I actually had the outside room at 74 most the night...just wanted to see, will keep at 73 though cause yesterday evening I added a 5th light, one of the little 36w tao's.. put on the back of Miss Cane's side just hanging against the wall about 1" or so lower than the main light. Tweaked my 3rd fan (The moving one) again this morning, just swapped the coffee container it was sitting on top of with a slightly higher one I had, makes it so the lower part of the fan actually hits the pot edges, which is sort of exactly what I want it doing since so much material now kind of sits on the the pot edges.

Oh progress... yeah both the girls grew over night. Miss Cane is now 6" and Mrs Widow now 6.5", that's roughly 1/2ich each in 24hr. Also Mrs. Widow ... don't know how to say it but opened up a bit with the training I did, looks bit less like a bush and more a plant now. Miss Cane didn't quite have the same reaction, in fact see seemed to want resist her 'lite' training...or put another another way she snapped back into old positions and her bushiness was frankly down right out of control this morning in my opinion.

So of course this morning I went to town on the ladies yet again... more on that later.


Top Shots (before big training session #2):

A little better consistency...daddy likes, will try another tiny adjustment in humidity today.
Aiming for 45-62 for next two weeks..then 4x-55. 5th light is just above that red spot at
top of last photo even with about the left bottom vent edge.

Miss Cane:


Sides: She grew good 1/2" yesterday FINALLY, hopefully I get at least one more day like that
so that it adds a little more clearance between stuff STAT.


Closeups: Diz beotch be out of control with the bushiness, something must be done, time for a shave.
As much as I want to chop the two top fan leaves I know I can't so the middle or lower ones are
gonna have to go to make room to tie down the rest of this lady.


Mrs. Widow:


Sides: Oh yeah baby she's starting to like open up a little... and that added 1/2" in last 24hr
really helped and it wasn't just in 'height' but outward too, maybe this LST stuff really is key.



Closeups: I'm was ecstatic went I took a good look at her today, not that two main top fan leaves
are not a problem, but she opened up enough in last 24hr that I don't think I need to give her
a shave.... just another good beating and some more lashings.



So about that 5th light:

So yesterday I figured I have to get some more light under Miss Cane, at least in the short run because there so much damn growth under her being blocked by these massive fan leaves both top and middle, that they can't seem to get enough to break-out on their own. I thought about sticking a desk lamp and low wattage led sort of right up on her in certain spots but noticed the lights I have left barely fit into a the desk lamps i have, and then there is the hacky way I'd have to arrange it all...and it sort of would defeat a little bit of what I'm actually trying to do which is get her to putt on some more height...before having her bush come out the side. sigh.

So I got one of the haning socket things I thought would basically go to waste short of an emergency jimmy'd it up such that it hung about even with my main light and screwed in one of the two remaining socket led's I had, the 36w(20wall) Tao-something-or-others. Just hung it behind Miss Cane against the tent wall, and turned her such and pushed her a inch more back than usual such that I hoped a certain most painful area got at least a little more light - I know I'm wasting at least 1/2 those watts though with it against the wall but it's the best I can do atm. Next grow, I'm building my own .75" or 1" pvc contraption\framing inside the tent to facilitate sh1t the way I want it.

Did it help? Will I keep it around... I don't know yet, if it did in last 1/2 day it was marginal.


Training Session #2 - Child Abuse round 1. With pics

So I did something I probably should not have done today but I really felt like I had to do something about CC's leaf situation. Today was the first day I didn't find any serious leaf-over\stuck-to leaf situation causing sweating.
However there were many leaves touching and all bunched up only reason for no sweating was probably the addition yesterday of fan#2 (we'll call him middle-fan) back into the game.

So I took a good 20-30 minutes looking over Miss Cane, there were 6 key fan leaves all causing issues, 2 (the top most), I just can't remove per everything I've read, especially with an auto. 2 others (in the middle) if I removed (opposite sides of the same node\branching), would create some clearance for me to do some tie downs of other stuff in each area, and also allow me to bring the top2 fan leaves causing issue lower. 2 other (very low) are just problematic that they're growing into shit and into the pot..and to some extent... literally growing at like dirt level. There were 2 others actually that also were candidate but they had like mini-branches themselves and what looked like would eventually be bud sites so I nixed that idea from jump street.. at least for now cause IDK wtf I'm doing yet. lol


So cleaned off my fiskers with rubbing alcohol and snipped at 45d angles not at but damn close too the base stem, these were two middle fan leaves that had no other branching or growth on them and didn't look to my untrained eye would any time soon if ever. This I hope, I pray gave me the most bang for the buck damage wise. With them gone I was able to some serious abuse on Miss cane with my fingers and wire, and pipe cleaners. I was gentle...but with purpose, not like day before where I was probably too gentle, nope today she was getting a full on lashing. I probably stressed the living hell out of her today, I don't plan on touching her tomorrow really, maybe a gentle tweak at the top or minor adjusting checking of her lashing but I need to let her rest I think.

The sacrificed leaves.

If I can help it I don't plan on removing any more leaves from her, on purpose anyway.
Also some how some way it my abuse session I fking kocked off part of some undergrowth
leave, small guy too (.25")...sigh.

Miss Cane - Post child abuse


Daaaam she be looking haggard afer all that.
"It's for your own good! This is hurting me more than it's hurting you!"


Now on to Mrs.Widow.
Having already been lashed down more than CC and having started to recover and open up from that, I took things up a level today, I was gonna wait a day, but idk...I don't think I got too much time, rather beat her up now a give her final veg days to recovery. Anyway. So I got rough with her and added about 4 more tie downs, in fact I think the only thing not tied down is either at dirt-level, or they very top growth shoots and fans,who like with CC I man-handled a bit for directional control but unlike CC, left untied. I left them untied cause for now.. I need them where they to least interfear with everything else, maybe later in the week that will change (I want them going up and out hopefully).

Mrs. Widow after round-2 of lashings.

I can amost see down through her now. Tomorrow I swap some of the pipe cleaners for wire.
I've been using pipe-cleaners where I just want to coach a little, and where there is sensitive
other growth near-by the rubbing\contact point, wire where I either need more stregth (like steaking)
or I wasn't as paranoid about stress points.


Post - Session wide\overview shot


BTW during all this I saw some white hair or two near node interconnects and some bulging...
Am I wrong to think that's the very begining of pre-flower? Honestly I didn't pay much
attention today today, saying... I'll look again tomorrow and maybe snap some close ups, though
my camara acutually sucks for anything closer than about 2ft away.

So...
Just how bad did I fuck that up?

Damn! She is blowing up!

 

[knighthawktfc]

Damn! She is blowing up!

Yeah she really is, I mean I don't mind a little bush...but damn girl!!

I may have to bust out the drill again, only put in about 8 holes in each pot for tie downs originally (what did i know.. haha), realized today I may need about 4-5 more on each, and a little larger too, that or go down though the bends of the pots at the sides... learning lots for-next-time.

 

[Juny360]

What are you feeding?

 

[knighthawktfc]

What are you feeding?

So her first nute feeding was really just this week (other than I gave like 1/12th dose of cal-mag in ph'd water on like day 10).
Day 15 was just Distilled water @ 6.7'ish ph

Day 20 I gave them both the following per 1 gallon of distilled water:

5ml Technaflora - B.C. Boost (15ml was recommended per "recipe for success")
2.5ml Technaflora - B.C. Grow (7.5ml was recommended per "recipe for success")
0.8ml Technaflora - Thrive Alive B-1 Red (2.5ml was recommended per "recipe for success")
2.0ml Technaflora - Magi-Cal (2.5ml was recommended per "recipe for success")
~3.5ml Technaflora - SugarDaddy (10ml was recommended per "recipe for success")

Basically 1/3rd the Veg recipe...which itself is a tiny bit little lower than instructions on each bottle.
The exception is the magi-cal where I went with about 80% because I'm using distilled water with no mag or calcium in it so I know they need it.

Next water I plan to do straight water with just 2.0ml of magi-cal, because the schedule says do feed\water\water... I'm just planning to do feed\water feed\water for now only because they only drink like once every 5-6 days, if get to 3-4 days then I'll go feed\water\water.
After the next straight water though will probably be 'flower' mix time at one 3rd (similar to vegmix but adds 'awesome blooms').
Then probably straight water, then probably flower mix at 50%.. probably stay there unless I see something bad happening.

 

[knighthawktfc]

Day 24 - We Demand Water Again!


Overview:
Environment stable last 24, 72-77f, 47-67RH. Miss Cane is still only 6" adding no height overnight if if she did it was fractional enough that I can't measure it, Mrs.Widow on the other hand is about 7" now. Give that I beat the shit out of Miss Cane yesterday and chopped off two of her fingers, I can't say I'm surprised. That said, she seemed to keep on adding bush on the sides.. grr though looks a little better than yesterday morning before training. I notice burnt'ish yellow tips on the edges of some of Miss Cane's top growth too...not good, not immediately sure wtf that's about, but really hate that it's on the top new growth.

That tiny tweak of humidifier setting seems to lower RH during lights out to max of 67%, I'm going to tweak ever so slightly again today, see if I can't get it to low 60's... with lights on though I've never seen it above 58 in last 24hr, usually around 55%. Leaf top temp checking showed one as high as 78.5 on CC where I added that 5th light, and pots were closer to 78-79. All around seems 1d higher around the plants last 24hr if I had to guess.


While adjusting some the training lines on both pots I noticed both felt REALLY light, which is odd since I wasn't even going to check them really for water till tomorrow (day 5 from last). So I weighed them. 12.5 and 13.5, that's about as dry as they've ever been, minus maybe day 10. Debating if I will water one but not the other or just go with feeding them both in about an hour.... hmm.


Top Shots:



Miss Cane:


Sides: Still a mess, but marginally better than yesterday.




Closeups: Those tips... light stress? light stress combined with wanting water?


Mrs.Widow:


Sides: Yeah I got nothing to add here on the sides for her today... other then she busted out
of one of her gentle lashings so I tied her down harder in that spot.


Closeups:
Note.. no light\heat stress and yet she's 1" closer to the lights.


Actions:
Relating to Miss. Canes leaf tip burn? I raised the main light about 1/2". I raised light #5 about 1.5"
I raised Miss Canes (left side) side lights about 2" and tried again to angle things such that both
side lights were not spot-beaming the same area... they weren't before anyway but tried to get a little
less overlap. I mean no height growth, tips a little burnt looking, suggests to me more a too much
light issue than some sudden nutrient problem. That or it's little bit of both light and she wants a drink.


Soil: So it's funny... the top soil at about about 2" is moist fairly damp in my view but clearly the weight of the pots say they want need water ...CC now, WW definitely by tonight\tomorrow. IDK what's made them want water sooner than last time other than... they're much bigger plants than 5-7 days ago. haha
They both are due for straight ph'd water this time, however I'm about 85% sure I'm going to add a 75% dose of cal-mag along with it (cause using distilled water).

Pots are ~11lbs bone dry with no plants in them... 12lbs is borderline danger zone to me so CC is definitely ready, and given the beating I've given her I don't really want to let it go another day, WW is borderline, I could let her go another day, I could feed her today. Eh... I'll decide in the next Hour.


Plants under normal lighting:

CC:


CC's tip burn?:



WW:




So any thoughts about that sudden tip burn on Miss Cane, appeared overnight after the beating I gave her yesterday.

Oh yeah... I looked around for signs of sex on both babies... I'm either blind or it's a couple days off still.. I mean the early early signs seem there, but even with a basic mag-glass I couldn't make out sh1t other then what's forming up looks pointy without hairs thus far, no clear sacks or anything forming or if they are they are so tiny I can't see at this point. Will check again tomorrow, maybe even bust out the hard to us scope.

 

[Dinsdale]

Nice and bushy plants!

IDK what's made them want water sooner than last time other than... they're much bigger plants than 5-7 days ago. haha

The mass of the plants (leaves, stems, roots) grow exponentially, so they drink a lot more. Simple as that.

So any thoughts about that sudden tip burn on Miss Cane, appeared overnight after the beating I gave her yesterday.

I would try and eliminate the potential causes (light stress and/or nute burn?) and see if it makes a difference. So put the lights higher and give them less nutrients. If it doesn't help, at least you'll know it's not light stress and/or nute burn.

PS: I'm a beginner too, so take everything I say with a shit ton of salt!

 

[knighthawktfc]

Day 24 afternoon - and so he said go forth and drink my children...


Whipped up a gallon of distilled with 1ml of cal mag, played the ph up down dance till got to 6.6'ish.

I say 'ish' because idk wtf is up today but dropplets and ph meter did not agree for while, first meter was all like your water is 4.8 after some cal mag and I'm all like...daz near impossible, check the ph droplet version twice and it basically tells me 6.5-7.0. WTF.. I bust out some calibration crap even though I just cal'd this thing 5 days ago.... I check it in 4.01 and 7ph juice... reads nearly perfect.. 4.0x and 6.9x.. Wash it in distilled again.. cap and let it sit for minute, check the same water gallon water again making sure to wiggle etc... 5.8.. da fk? Check the droplets again no change. fk it. add a few tiny drops of ph up... now everyone suddenly agrees we're in the mid 7's... drop of down.. meter's about 6.3-6.4, droplets tell me about 7.0, add not even a droplet of up. Shake the shit out of the gallon....wait a minute... check again. All homies agree we're around 6.5-6.8. At this point I'm trusting the meter more. Blew like 45minutes with this dance.


IN PH: 6.6'ish IN PPM: 48
CC:
12:15pm first pours - 1000ml - 100% rim'ish
12:20 second pour - 400ml - 100% rim'ish
12:30 third pour - 300ml - 80% rim'ish
1:00 fourth pour - 100ml -- more centerish of pot.
1:05 Weighed 16-17lbs

1:15 new batch 300ml -- rim focused slight toward side that had not drained anything.

CC output:
12:35 first couple droplets and eventually in 10-15min just enough to ph test...consider head-end.
PH: 6.2 PPM ~175 (droplet test more or less agreed more toward 6.5)
..nothing. till around
1:30 drops start again.. not enough to test
1:40 droplets started again pretty decently but was out of time (lights out in 5min)

WW:
12:20pm first pours: 1000ml
12:25pm second pour 400ml
12:30pm third pour 300ml
12:55pm fourth pour 100ml
1:05 weighted - ~18lbs.

1:20 new batch 200ml --rim focused slightly more toward side that had not drained anything.

WW output:
1:30pm started dripping lightly just enough to get head-end sample.
PH: 5.7-5.8 PPM ~165 (droplets again seemed to agree more toward 6.0)

1:40pm - She started dripping again pretty decently but I was out of time (lights out in 5min).


Moral of the story... don't bother feeding these ladies if it's after 12pm they take to long to drain, do it in the morning or when they first wake up after sleep. What a pain in the ass watering is once you've got lst going on.


Will collect samples in ~6hr from the trays, thankfully head-ends I got lucky and most of that ended up directly in my little tiny cups.
I'm expecting a ton of run off to be waiting for me tonight...but you never know maybe they drink more this time around, they certainly seemed to want more than a gallon between the two of them, at least to get decent amount of runoff. I had to whip up about 500ml more around 1pm (just plain ph'd distilled no cal-mag). I'm expecting about 3-400 out of CC and about 3-500 out of WW.

 

[KevinL]

There's a training style I saw on one of threads here for autos, it's actually was the thread of a guy named Neil, who is the creator of the Perfect Sun LED. It's called ponytailing, I think. You could look into that. Unless your girls have already started flowering, then I think it's too late.