Not sure I'm following your pot design. Is it hydroton forming your reservoir or do you have a container forming a void in there?
Ganesha Says If There's Water Below, Things Will Grow! First SIP Grow
- Thread starter Fenderbender
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- #62
Fenderbender
Well-Known Member
Aaaaah now I get it, you thought hydroton was making the res like Melville is doing with his outside planter.
Nono I've got a reservoir with a water channel remember this?
There's a space on the bottom that fills with water, then they put hydroton that's wicking the water and making the soil wet. I thought that's quite similar to the grobucket but instead of a res with a high pass filter shape it's got a notch in the middle. So I'm thinking I could just put soil down to the water channel as well skipping the hydrotron And then it would be like a grobucket.
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- #63
Fenderbender
Well-Known Member
@ReservoirDog
Okay the other SIP threads just got very interesting with your additions again about the airgap and holes although that has been discussed quite a few times already.. but with all the DIY structures and slight variations in methods it still remains a bit of a mystery.
So I wonder if you have thoughts on this one, as I've now had the two styles of roots happening, those in the soil and webbed ones in the hydroton.
I did NOT drill holes in the reservoir as I thought well a. I'm just going to try it first as per manufacturer which is according to the picture in the post above.. and my res has a notch and not like the grobucket which I consider high pass filter shaped.. and that notch is two inch wide and longer than a foot. so I feel that's quite a bit of the res exposed and since I first use hydroton there's a long gap of water with hydroton that can "breathe" into the bottom of the soil.
So thinking about what you said.. if I were to pack this pot completely with soil.. I probably should drill holes, and not fill the res completely so there's an airgap.
Although in the end the way I use it now, my pot couldn't breath, as the plant prioritised the roots at the water more than the roots in the soil and completely filled the water channel even hindering the water from flowing into it.
However this might be different if I first form a rootball? as now I seed in the final container which pretty much means that root is going straight down until it's where it senses the water and nutes are.. versus if I plant a rootball in well fed soil she might more evenly explore the soil part first.
Okay the other SIP threads just got very interesting with your additions again about the airgap and holes although that has been discussed quite a few times already.. but with all the DIY structures and slight variations in methods it still remains a bit of a mystery.
So I wonder if you have thoughts on this one, as I've now had the two styles of roots happening, those in the soil and webbed ones in the hydroton.
I did NOT drill holes in the reservoir as I thought well a. I'm just going to try it first as per manufacturer which is according to the picture in the post above.. and my res has a notch and not like the grobucket which I consider high pass filter shaped.. and that notch is two inch wide and longer than a foot. so I feel that's quite a bit of the res exposed and since I first use hydroton there's a long gap of water with hydroton that can "breathe" into the bottom of the soil.
So thinking about what you said.. if I were to pack this pot completely with soil.. I probably should drill holes, and not fill the res completely so there's an airgap.
Although in the end the way I use it now, my pot couldn't breath, as the plant prioritised the roots at the water more than the roots in the soil and completely filled the water channel even hindering the water from flowing into it.
However this might be different if I first form a rootball? as now I seed in the final container which pretty much means that root is going straight down until it's where it senses the water and nutes are.. versus if I plant a rootball in well fed soil she might more evenly explore the soil part first.
ReservoirDog
Well-Known Member
I've long wondered what the manuf. of your pot is thinking about with respect to the hydroton. Because I'm only visualizing your inside works I'm not 100% sure I get the layout (quite different from @Krissi Carbone 's pots, are they?), but first I thought maybe there were large openings they wanted dirt to stay out of so laid hydroton clay down first. But with no holes, all I can think of is that perhaps they consider that very bottom layer to be too wet for plants, and hydroton's there to block the roots out.
Thing is, it's not water's wetness that troubles roots, it's when there aren't minimum levels of dissolved oxygen (DO2) in the water, which is the case if no sources of new atmo-gasses exist to keep DO2 levels at the minimum tolerable amounts - and keep bad fungi/bacteria growing on roots.
How do you feel about the results you got the first time around? I thought you got a nice harvest and growth was really nice. I personally like your pot size, but I can understand wanting to try scaling down in a tent your size. I bet you could grow a half-kilo plant in there with one pot and a scrog.
I've actually been trying to get my ex in Utrecht to go to the store to find, and mail me one of those pots but she doesn't seem to get the attraction, and for some reason I haven't felt like explaining.
I get pretty mail-happy when I'm abroad, sending endless parcels of weird food to people back home. I mailed a bicycle to my kid from Holland to Canada, assembled. My ex thought I was a madman then too. Maybe so.
I think it is best to get the plant into a bottom-heavy moisture gradient from germination, so maybe fill the pot with water, let it saturate, and then wait some more until the reservoir is empty and then plant the seed, dribbling just a little top water on the seed area and let it do its thing. That's what I figured out and did until I got those perforated baggie-things I plant seedlings in now and mini-SIp them. A moisture gradient is recognizable to the plants because this is the most common natural state, as earth is dryer closer to the surface - except briefly when it rains. This recognition triggers a genetic response contained in the seed's DNA that then allows the plant to shape its morphology according to this gradient. My observation is that SIPs often have a lesser root system, measured by dry weight, simply because it isn't necessary, and the plant is not suffering wet/dry cycles and searching for water all the time. Because you're fertilizing the reservoir, as I do often, the plant just goes all out for that reservoir. Probably cannabis is just a more aggressive plant than manuf's had in mind, but so long as you can get water down the pipe, and there's an air gap to keep enough Do2 in the res water it should not be an issue.
I would think that omitting the hydroton and ensuring there was some atmo-gas passing (lol) into the planter from the airgap by drilling holes, would function quite well. Of course, a bird in the hand is worth two in a bush, so.... choices. Will be interesting.
Thing is, it's not water's wetness that troubles roots, it's when there aren't minimum levels of dissolved oxygen (DO2) in the water, which is the case if no sources of new atmo-gasses exist to keep DO2 levels at the minimum tolerable amounts - and keep bad fungi/bacteria growing on roots.
How do you feel about the results you got the first time around? I thought you got a nice harvest and growth was really nice. I personally like your pot size, but I can understand wanting to try scaling down in a tent your size. I bet you could grow a half-kilo plant in there with one pot and a scrog.
I've actually been trying to get my ex in Utrecht to go to the store to find, and mail me one of those pots but she doesn't seem to get the attraction, and for some reason I haven't felt like explaining.
I get pretty mail-happy when I'm abroad, sending endless parcels of weird food to people back home. I mailed a bicycle to my kid from Holland to Canada, assembled. My ex thought I was a madman then too. Maybe so.I think it is best to get the plant into a bottom-heavy moisture gradient from germination, so maybe fill the pot with water, let it saturate, and then wait some more until the reservoir is empty and then plant the seed, dribbling just a little top water on the seed area and let it do its thing. That's what I figured out and did until I got those perforated baggie-things I plant seedlings in now and mini-SIp them. A moisture gradient is recognizable to the plants because this is the most common natural state, as earth is dryer closer to the surface - except briefly when it rains. This recognition triggers a genetic response contained in the seed's DNA that then allows the plant to shape its morphology according to this gradient. My observation is that SIPs often have a lesser root system, measured by dry weight, simply because it isn't necessary, and the plant is not suffering wet/dry cycles and searching for water all the time. Because you're fertilizing the reservoir, as I do often, the plant just goes all out for that reservoir. Probably cannabis is just a more aggressive plant than manuf's had in mind, but so long as you can get water down the pipe, and there's an air gap to keep enough Do2 in the res water it should not be an issue.
I would think that omitting the hydroton and ensuring there was some atmo-gas passing (lol) into the planter from the airgap by drilling holes, would function quite well. Of course, a bird in the hand is worth two in a bush, so.... choices. Will be interesting.
- Thread starter
- #65
Fenderbender
Well-Known Member
@ReservoirDog
The inside is like this the middle is the water channel, it has 12 slits you can see with on the bottom and top of each slit a smaller slit to the reservoir sides.. one hole is for the feeding tube and water level and the others are the 4 where they are attached to the res and I think the smallest 4 holes are just indentations not holes to the reservoir but not sure.
The way they set it up with hydroton works really well though, maybe a bit too well? as what I experienced in the beginning before the plant overtook the consumption is that the soil was very well hydrated all the way to the top.
But once she had established herself in the water channel the soil was dry on top and frankly she didn't explore or use the soil much at all.
Cannabis sure is an aggressive plant when it comes to roots, I thought from the getgo she's gonna do everything she can to get into the res, and she did as you could see with the roots that she searched any part of the plastic that contains water, like wrapped around the feeding tube especially around the seams where it's snapped together or meets the res.
The grow was great, without a hitch.. I sure could fill the tent with just this pot, double the size as well, probably a 150x150cm as well. but that's long veg times.. so two smaller ones might be better suited.
And well I saw she didn't use a lot, most of the soil coming out there smelled like it came out of the bag. Unused so it is overkill for my tent even if I fill the corners as that's only 30cm's more.
But I can't even fill this tent as now with this pot and photo periods I ran into the light as limiting factor as I can't get it to grow out of the footprint of the light, so I first need to get some light in my corners.
Ooh Utrecht, I've played there a couple of times, and the Urban Dance Squad hailed from there.
Trying to get one of these mailed to Canada? I think that's maybe a bit too much, it's some recycled stuff with holes in it.
Although it's a nicely made thing with a level.
I did check the site and they only seem to be distributing Netherlands, Belgium and couple locations North of France and around London.
The inside is like this the middle is the water channel, it has 12 slits you can see with on the bottom and top of each slit a smaller slit to the reservoir sides.. one hole is for the feeding tube and water level and the others are the 4 where they are attached to the res and I think the smallest 4 holes are just indentations not holes to the reservoir but not sure.
The way they set it up with hydroton works really well though, maybe a bit too well? as what I experienced in the beginning before the plant overtook the consumption is that the soil was very well hydrated all the way to the top.
But once she had established herself in the water channel the soil was dry on top and frankly she didn't explore or use the soil much at all.
Cannabis sure is an aggressive plant when it comes to roots, I thought from the getgo she's gonna do everything she can to get into the res, and she did as you could see with the roots that she searched any part of the plastic that contains water, like wrapped around the feeding tube especially around the seams where it's snapped together or meets the res.
The grow was great, without a hitch.. I sure could fill the tent with just this pot, double the size as well, probably a 150x150cm as well. but that's long veg times.. so two smaller ones might be better suited.
And well I saw she didn't use a lot, most of the soil coming out there smelled like it came out of the bag. Unused so it is overkill for my tent even if I fill the corners as that's only 30cm's more.
But I can't even fill this tent as now with this pot and photo periods I ran into the light as limiting factor as I can't get it to grow out of the footprint of the light, so I first need to get some light in my corners.
Ooh Utrecht, I've played there a couple of times, and the Urban Dance Squad hailed from there.
Trying to get one of these mailed to Canada? I think that's maybe a bit too much, it's some recycled stuff with holes in it.
Although it's a nicely made thing with a level.
I did check the site and they only seem to be distributing Netherlands, Belgium and couple locations North of France and around London.
- Thread starter
- #66
Fenderbender
Well-Known Member
We got some action!
And I got some gnat protection
And I got some gnat protection
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- #67
Fenderbender
Well-Known Member
Already looking better, I was kinda worried as the stem was quite black and brown yesterday, but today it's got a purple hue.
And I got some Easy Rolls! these are great! no more bit of string that gets too long when changing height and I can just raise and lower the light by just moving it up or down .. now here's hoping those mechanics have some longevity that I won't have to go back to the other type again.
And I got some Easy Rolls! these are great! no more bit of string that gets too long when changing height and I can just raise and lower the light by just moving it up or down .. now here's hoping those mechanics have some longevity that I won't have to go back to the other type again.
ReservoirDog
Well-Known Member
Welcome to the world little baby cannabis! Fenderbender has built you a house, inside a house! Life should be pretty grand.
Thanks for explaining/showing me the pot's innards. Now I don't need to keep trying to get one mailed to me just to understand what's going on. Yeah, turns out the mystery was the whole attraction, but I knew that.
Sadly, I do not know the venue you describe. I was only in Utrecht for two years and I had either a very pregnant wife or a newborn the entire time. I hope that excuse passes, it's all I've got. We lived on campus at the university, in a shoebox. Somehow it was all quite lovely; I expect there were some brain chemicals triggered by fatherhood that had everything to do with my rose-coloured perspective. Nonetheless, it was love-ly. Even since I was a kid and had never been there before, the Netherlands has always been my heart's home; as much as I love Canadian wilderness and living in it, it seems I'm a Dutchman at the core. Weird.
"In a western world town and dead-end worlds; East end boys and west end girls..."
I guess, lol.
With all plastic pots the roots will always find more water right up against the plastic itself, up, down, everywhere in pots there's always more against the plastic than the immed. surrounding dirt and the roots just whore themselves all over it, especially if fertigated, from what I've seen over the years.
You make good sense re: pot size. I personally think of fertigated SIPs as being most similar to those 'micro-grows' where people plant into 2-3 gallons of coco and top-drip fertigation 7 times a day. Nothing "micro' about the results. That doctrine, and other experiences like flood and drain, kinda tell me that very little grow-matrix is needed when there's a constant source of feed, moisture & dissolved O2 (dO2). SIP's passive nature by comparison, I think, means our challenge is oxygenation, so I focus there. Again, I'm referring to fertigated SIPs only.
Because most SIP cannabis growers on all of the forums I've found have been organic/pro-biotic, they've typically used very large totes or pots. But you can see what BudsBunny can do in a 5 gallon pot that's really only got no more than 3 gallons/12 litres of soil in it, probably. He's growing half-kilo monsters on 4-6 weeks of veg, and I've been getting good results myself even though I try to keep the ppm's quite low. I target only 1.0 EC when running in peat/perlite (SunShine Mix #4), which is pretty low and I think I can go quite a bit higher.I think Buds is using 100% of prescribed M3ga Cr0p, which comes in at twice my EC, but he's planting in soil that I've been assuming is more forgiving than my peat/perlite.It seems, however, that the peat can take it provided its been well buffered as my product is.
I'm building up some SIPs with a 3 gallon planter and a reservoir with airstone in it to test the hypothesis. I don't have any seeds, or mothers, so I don't know what I'll grow just yet. (I'm so broke it would be embarrassing to normal people, but I'm aggressively finishing off a mortgage on a fixed income.) I'll post them on the SIP thread when I'm done.
Looking forward to your journal.
Thanks for explaining/showing me the pot's innards. Now I don't need to keep trying to get one mailed to me just to understand what's going on. Yeah, turns out the mystery was the whole attraction, but I knew that.
Sadly, I do not know the venue you describe. I was only in Utrecht for two years and I had either a very pregnant wife or a newborn the entire time. I hope that excuse passes, it's all I've got. We lived on campus at the university, in a shoebox. Somehow it was all quite lovely; I expect there were some brain chemicals triggered by fatherhood that had everything to do with my rose-coloured perspective. Nonetheless, it was love-ly. Even since I was a kid and had never been there before, the Netherlands has always been my heart's home; as much as I love Canadian wilderness and living in it, it seems I'm a Dutchman at the core. Weird.
"In a western world town and dead-end worlds; East end boys and west end girls..."
I guess, lol.
With all plastic pots the roots will always find more water right up against the plastic itself, up, down, everywhere in pots there's always more against the plastic than the immed. surrounding dirt and the roots just whore themselves all over it, especially if fertigated, from what I've seen over the years.
You make good sense re: pot size. I personally think of fertigated SIPs as being most similar to those 'micro-grows' where people plant into 2-3 gallons of coco and top-drip fertigation 7 times a day. Nothing "micro' about the results. That doctrine, and other experiences like flood and drain, kinda tell me that very little grow-matrix is needed when there's a constant source of feed, moisture & dissolved O2 (dO2). SIP's passive nature by comparison, I think, means our challenge is oxygenation, so I focus there. Again, I'm referring to fertigated SIPs only.
Because most SIP cannabis growers on all of the forums I've found have been organic/pro-biotic, they've typically used very large totes or pots. But you can see what BudsBunny can do in a 5 gallon pot that's really only got no more than 3 gallons/12 litres of soil in it, probably. He's growing half-kilo monsters on 4-6 weeks of veg, and I've been getting good results myself even though I try to keep the ppm's quite low. I target only 1.0 EC when running in peat/perlite (SunShine Mix #4), which is pretty low and I think I can go quite a bit higher.I think Buds is using 100% of prescribed M3ga Cr0p, which comes in at twice my EC, but he's planting in soil that I've been assuming is more forgiving than my peat/perlite.It seems, however, that the peat can take it provided its been well buffered as my product is.
I'm building up some SIPs with a 3 gallon planter and a reservoir with airstone in it to test the hypothesis. I don't have any seeds, or mothers, so I don't know what I'll grow just yet. (I'm so broke it would be embarrassing to normal people, but I'm aggressively finishing off a mortgage on a fixed income.) I'll post them on the SIP thread when I'm done.
Looking forward to your journal.
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- #69
Fenderbender
Well-Known Member
Well maybe you are? Do the roots trace back to these parts?For an organic grow I can understand big pots as well it's the main resource, but as you note with nutes it can be a small bucket and still a big plant.. well with two I'd be aiming at 50x50cm for each which isn't a big plant, now I had a 70x50cm plant and still so much room in the can.. so if I pick the smallest version I'd be quite alright for 50x50, and I'd be using less soil, perlite, hydroton per grow stretching the purchase which would be nice. I would be watering more often but that's an okay tradeoff.
The oxygen & holes remain interesting... If I'd drilled the holes would it have promoted maybe more root growth in the soil, I'll only know if I try.. Although the root I had now was mighty impressive, one big chonker going down and there becoming a large web.
aha a sip with an airstone.. that's kinda the first thing I wanted to do, was put a long airstone in that water channel that way I could supply boosts of oxygen to the roots and bubble up the water a bit into the hydroton.
But Azi said not necessary and well right as this worked.
Main thing I'm trying this time around is get the light in closer without burning buds.
Oh no, Sharks in the tent!!
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- #70
Fenderbender
Well-Known Member
Euhm I feel she's about to kick off... still so tiny at 13 days.. but the previous grow as well, at day 11 was still such a tiny seedling in the centre of the pot and day 18 she was almost touching the sides of the pot.
Although this be no Barney's farm though so it might totally turn out different.
Although this be no Barney's farm though so it might totally turn out different.
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- #71
Fenderbender
Well-Known Member
The res is full, so it's hands off now for quite some time.. she's definitely nowhere near the expansion of the Barneys Critical Kush, but she's going relative to her own style, I'm seeing the stem is ripping which means she's bulking up fast.
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- #72
Fenderbender
Well-Known Member
Ooh, I've ordered some Barney's Farm White Widow XXL Auto's.. they promise low height and huge harvest if everything goes well so I'm thinking perfect for outdoor. They are slow autos but fast enough to get them down before the cold.
I've also ordered another SIP like I have, gonna use one for the White Widow outdoor well it's covered outdoor, versus one in garden soil.
And I kinda want to try one indoor as well.
Also ordered a Dynavap M Plus, very curious is supposed to be able to empty the bowl with one heat cycle.. and I think Dynavaps taste very good and are very good replacement for smoking joints as it's still resembles the action & ritual, you're still using a flame and the thing has the right shape and is fun to fidget with.. used to have one but it got lost.
And a little press for hash pellets.
Can't wait
I've also ordered another SIP like I have, gonna use one for the White Widow outdoor well it's covered outdoor, versus one in garden soil.
And I kinda want to try one indoor as well.
Also ordered a Dynavap M Plus, very curious is supposed to be able to empty the bowl with one heat cycle.. and I think Dynavaps taste very good and are very good replacement for smoking joints as it's still resembles the action & ritual, you're still using a flame and the thing has the right shape and is fun to fidget with.. used to have one but it got lost.
And a little press for hash pellets.
Can't wait
- Thread starter
- #73
Fenderbender
Well-Known Member
Now things are speeding up nicely, the reservoir has Canna Calmag and Biocanna Rhizotonic and Vega in it.
Euhm I think I'll go for a mini christmas tree and just try a fat cola.. cause I'm only going to let her veg a wee bit longer.. I do not trust leaving the lights on when I'm gone so this is just for fun see what it does.. freebee seed anyways.
And although Zamnesia their seeds have provided very flavourful plants in the past and nice growing stuff as well.
It does not compare to the Barney's I just grew as that had leaves already by now that could cover this plant.
So I'm mainly concerned with the outdoor grows which I won't post as that's different local, and the one after this one when I get back.
I've already ordered good genetics, Barney's & ACE.
And some other useful stuff, I'm also going to update the light as I wont't be growing any long sativa with the current one, well I could but it would look pretty scruffy. gonna make sure I got 50x100cm optimal flowering coverage as now it's more like 40x66cm.
Euhm I think I'll go for a mini christmas tree and just try a fat cola.. cause I'm only going to let her veg a wee bit longer.. I do not trust leaving the lights on when I'm gone so this is just for fun see what it does.. freebee seed anyways.
And although Zamnesia their seeds have provided very flavourful plants in the past and nice growing stuff as well.
It does not compare to the Barney's I just grew as that had leaves already by now that could cover this plant.
So I'm mainly concerned with the outdoor grows which I won't post as that's different local, and the one after this one when I get back.
I've already ordered good genetics, Barney's & ACE.
And some other useful stuff, I'm also going to update the light as I wont't be growing any long sativa with the current one, well I could but it would look pretty scruffy. gonna make sure I got 50x100cm optimal flowering coverage as now it's more like 40x66cm.
- Thread starter
- #74
Fenderbender
Well-Known Member
Now every day is very visible in growth.
And it's ridiculous how happy a plant is this way.. as well I don't baby seed at all this goes straight into final pot with the full light above it, in a too dry environment as as long as the plant has no sizeable canopy the tent is as bone dry as the room it's in.
And she gets full strength nutes almost immediately and she goes sure no problem... feed me more! feed me Seymour.. feeeed me..
And it's ridiculous how happy a plant is this way.. as well I don't baby seed at all this goes straight into final pot with the full light above it, in a too dry environment as as long as the plant has no sizeable canopy the tent is as bone dry as the room it's in.
And she gets full strength nutes almost immediately and she goes sure no problem... feed me more! feed me Seymour.. feeeed me..
- Thread starter
- #75
Fenderbender
Well-Known Member
I need to get a ultrasonic bat repellent or something, or maybe there's a tree or plant they don't like.. but they need to avoid my place.
I woke up with another bat in my bedroom last night, the first one of the year and with what I experienced last year I don't want to go through that again as that destroys my sleep.
One of my cats is obsessed with catching bats and way too good at it so I need something to make sure they stay clear around this roof.
I also spent an hour today revalidating a bat, first by giving it cover and rest, and then I got it outside and covered it from the Sun and sprayed it with fine water mist and gave it a little pool of water to drink from and eventually it found the strength to fly again.
I woke up with another bat in my bedroom last night, the first one of the year and with what I experienced last year I don't want to go through that again as that destroys my sleep.
One of my cats is obsessed with catching bats and way too good at it so I need something to make sure they stay clear around this roof.
I also spent an hour today revalidating a bat, first by giving it cover and rest, and then I got it outside and covered it from the Sun and sprayed it with fine water mist and gave it a little pool of water to drink from and eventually it found the strength to fly again.
- Thread starter
- #76
Fenderbender
Well-Known Member
Oh fudge it, I just put 12 hours on the timer.. I rather have a finished small plant than bigger one I need to cut short.
And I'm gonna do nothing, just natural shape.
And I'm gonna do nothing, just natural shape.
Game on!
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- #78
Fenderbender
Well-Known Member
Just had my first drag of the Dynavap mmmmm very pure and straight to the head..
Although I think prefer the regular technique by heating the cap, you can one shot this one by heating the bowl and then you get huge puffs I tried that too but it's a bit too hot I feel and not as tasty and it starts to heat up the entire device.
The trick with vaping is staying in the tasty range which is not too hot.
The Ace Malawi is in, with another freebee Critical like I'm growing now.
And the Barney's Farm White Widow Autos with a freebee Runtz Auto.
And something to press kief.
Although I think prefer the regular technique by heating the cap, you can one shot this one by heating the bowl and then you get huge puffs I tried that too but it's a bit too hot I feel and not as tasty and it starts to heat up the entire device.
The trick with vaping is staying in the tasty range which is not too hot.
The Ace Malawi is in, with another freebee Critical like I'm growing now.
And the Barney's Farm White Widow Autos with a freebee Runtz Auto.
And something to press kief.
- Thread starter
- #79
Fenderbender
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #80
Fenderbender
Well-Known Member
I've also lowered the light so I reach 40 moles on the 12 hour DLI.
And what's going on here.. completely confused leaf.
And what's going on here.. completely confused leaf.
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