Help please, turning yellow

[cbdhemp808]

Im using canna coco what i can tell u is my tap water has less 29ug/l my coco bottle says 0.002% iron chelated by dtpa

That's a different product than what the OP is using. 0.002% seems not enough.

the bottle you have posted does not state how many of any mineral there is yet canna says it contains minerals why would canna lie

Yes it does, it states NPK and S. There's nothing else in the bottle. Companies sell products and make money. I'm not saying they are lying. Did I say that? No. I am sticking to the facts, and the facts are there's no added minerals to the Bio Terra Plus soil (except NPK), and likewise for the Vega and Flores, except NPK and S. If you can show me otherwise, go right ahead.

my bottle says all ingredients do a search for iron deficiency using canna bio products i cant find one and op grew this way in summer but feeding was different because of weather until u can state the iron percentage u shouldn't assume

Why would BIOCANNA not advertise on the label all the wonderful minerals that are in their products? So far, there is no proof there are any minerals beside NPK and S. They did list those, so why would they list those and omit the rest?

Here's the back of the Fox Farm Tiger Bloom label... this is how it's done:

 

[cbdhemp808]

Calling in @Fenderbender @Azimuth @Fuzzy Duck @cr8grow

Please comment on the back label of BIOCANNA Bio Vega and Bio Flores... photos would be nice. We are having a debate if these products contain any micronutrients, and if so how much.


Fenderbender said:

And holy cow that Biocanna feed is some viscous molasses looking stuff pretty hard to use the handy bottle dosing if it coats the inside completely when shaking up.

Interesting, because it's made from "vinasse"... maybe it's just molasses, but a non-food-grade version, or something.

 

[Fenderbender]

Just had a look at the bottles, can't focus the entire text in a pic as it bends around the bottle and well my bottles are in French.
It doesn't give an ingredient list.. just says it's made from fermented vegetable waste and holds the nutrients, vitamins and fruity acids? for a healthy crop blabla..

 

[cbdhemp808]

Just had a look at the bottles, can't focus the entire text in a pic as it bends around the bottle and well my bottles are in French.
It doesn't give an ingredient list.. just says it's made from fermented vegetable waste and holds the nutrients, vitamins and fruity acids? for a healthy crop blabla..

Do you see NPK there? Nothing else listed with the NPK? What NPK does it show? How about sulfur? Thanks.

 

[Fenderbender]

ah wait, yes on the bottom vega is 2-1-5 and it lists NPK and SO3 2%
Flores is 2-2-5 and also just list NPK & SO3 2%

 

[cbdhemp808]

ah wait, yes on the bottom vega is 2-1-5 and it lists NPK and SO3 2%
Flores is 2-2-5 and also just list NPK & SO3 2%

Interesting. Can you find a date on those bottles? Or do you know when you bought them?

There's an NPK (3.5 - 1.0 - 5.5) of the Vega out there (sometimes written 3-1-5)... wondering if that's the old NPK or the new one. For Flores, NPK (2.5 - 2.0 - 5.0).

UPDATE: These could be hard water and soft water versions.

 

[Fenderbender]

I got mine in August I believe just before the previous grow and that went very well without a hickup, sell by date is 2025.

 

[Fenderbender]

This vega is N2,5% P1% K5,3%

 

[AgedMaster]

That's a different product than what the OP is using. 0.002% seems not enough.


Yes it does, it states NPK and S. There's nothing else in the bottle. Companies sell products and make money. I'm not saying they are lying. Did I say that? No. I am sticking to the facts, and the facts are there's no added minerals to the Bio Terra Plus soil (except NPK), and likewise for the Vega and Flores, except NPK and S. If you can show me otherwise, go right ahead.


Why would BIOCANNA not advertise on the label all the wonderful minerals that are in their products? So far, there is no proof there are any minerals beside NPK and S. They did list those, so why would they list those and omit the rest?

Here's the back of the Fox Farm Tiger Bloom label... this is how it's done:

so if im low why would i not need iron as u say. Coco has nothing in it it has a neutral ph and how would op grow fine in the summer with those nutes its the fact he only fed after 8 weeks as he thought he was good with what was in soil yet if u look at guide it says to start feed 4 weeks after not 8 im not saying he dont have a iron deficiency its just not caused by what u think and continuing with feed should correct that and canna is not cheap either

 

[cbdhemp808]

I got mine in August I believe just before the previous grow and that went very well without a hickup, sell by date is 2025.

Thanks very much.

So far we know... BIOCANNA Vega and Flores liquid ferts contain NPK and S, and are made from a waste product from ethanol production (stuff called "vinasse"), and possibly also rock phosphate.

"Vinasse is a liquid residue from the sugarcane-based ethanol industry. After sugarcane juice fermentation by yeast, ethanol concentration in the fermented broth is no more than 10% v/v (due to its toxicity). During distillation, the ethanol is recovered and everything left is called vinasse."

This sounds like fermented molasses to me, which explains why it looks like molasses. We don't know how much vinasse is in the products, but that appears to be the main ingredient providing NPK and S. We also don't know if the vinasse is from sugarcane, beets, or something else.

I just found this mineral analysis of vinasse (sugarcane type), with values in mg per liter (same as ppm). This shows high sulfur, potassium, calcium, phosphate, and nitrogen. There's substantial amounts of Cl (chloride ion), Na (sodium ion), Mg, Fe, and Al (aluminum). The rest are very low amounts. This list does show heavy metals, Ba (barium), Cd (cadmium), Cr (chromium), and Ni (nickel). (The permissible limit for Cd in soil is .05 ppm. USEPA 2004.) This list doesn't show lead (Pb), but another list shows lead at 0.02–0.48 ppm.

I'm guessing that BIOCANNA doesn't like to list a guaranteed analysis because either their vinasse source isn't consistent (i.e. the chemical analysis varies), or they want to avoid drawing attention to vinasse, and showing any of the undesirables... sodium, heavy metals, aluminum. For some strange reason, they only list sulfur on the label. At any rate, they don't provide a guaranteed analysis.

I also found this 2013 study, albeit with regard to large-scale agriculture:

"...the direct application of vinasse in the soil can cause salinization [salt buildup], leaching of metals present in the soil to groundwater, changes in soil quality due to unbalance of nutrients, mainly manganese..., alkalinity reduction, crop losses..., increase of phytotoxicity [injury to plants] and unpleasant odor.... [fertigation] may [provide] a false impression of solving... the problem of vinasse disposal."

Vinasse is deficient in 4 important nutrients: Mo (molybdenum), Zn (zinc), B (boron), and Si (silicon). (Possibly also Mn.) Keep in mind that Fe, Zn, Mn (manganese) are interrelated plant nutrients affecting uptake/use of N and S (sulfur).

Again, we don't know how much vinasse is in these products – I'm guessing it is diluted with water, while the above chart is for 100% vinasse.

My conclusion: I wouldn't use these products, because I have a strong sense that the nutrient profile isn't consistent, and also because important nutrients are lacking, and to avoid the sodium, heavy metals, and aluminum. Granted, the heavy metals content is low, so I would need to check those levels for safety. But that's difficult, because we don't know how much vinasse is in these products (i.e. how diluted it is). We just don't know how much of particular important nutrient, like iron, are in these products. One other thing... sugarcane pulls toxins and heavy metals out of the soil where it was grown, and those get transferred into the vinasse. So, this is another unknown – i.e. where did the sugarcane come from and how was it grown? Using a fertilizer based on a waste product of sugarcane processing could mean various toxins will wind up in the cannabis resin. For example, lead is a big concern for CBD oil manufacturers, and some companies actually have processes in place to remove lead.

 

[cbdhemp808]

so if im low why would i not need iron as u say. Coco has nothing in it it has a neutral ph

I'm not talking about BIOCANNA's coco product – I'm talking about Bio Vega and Bio Flores. I leave it up to you to determine if their coco product contains enough minerals.

and how would op grow fine in the summer with those nutes its the fact he only fed after 8 weeks as he thought he was good with what was in soil yet if u look at guide it says to start feed 4 weeks after not 8

I don't know... there are a lot of variables involved. pH. What strain is being grown. And I get the distinct impression that Bio Vega and Bio Flores may not have a consistent nutrient profile.

im not saying he dont have a iron deficiency its just not caused by what u think and continuing with feed should correct that and canna is not cheap either

It depends on what concentration of vinasse is in the Bio Flores – i.e. the molasses-type stuff. There could very well be enough iron in it, but we just don't know. Vinasse is lacking in Mo (molybdenum), Zn (zinc), B (boron), Si (silicon), and possibly Mn (manganese), which are important nutrients, so we know the OP isn't feeding enough of these. And, Fe, Zn, Mn (manganese) are interrelated plant nutrients affecting uptake/use of N and S (sulfur), so this may point to why OP's leaves are yellowing.

Cost of Fox Farm Tiger Bloom in UK: £14.99 for 473 ml.

Cost of BIOCANNA Bio Flores in UK: £14.95 for 1 liter.

 

[Fenderbender]

So no biocanna?
So far it seems to be working like charm. Well over here at least.
Most of my growing woes vanished since I've started buying distilled water and only use a few cups of tap mixed in.
If I use all tap plants started exhibiting problems for sure at some point.

 

[AgedMaster]

I'm not talking about BIOCANNA's coco product – I'm talking about Bio Vega and Bio Flores. I leave it up to you to determine if their coco product contains enough minerals.


I don't know... there are a lot of variables involved. pH. What strain is being grown. And I get the distinct impression that Bio Vega and Bio Flores may not have a consistent nutrient profile.


It depends on what concentration of vinasse is in the Bio Flores – i.e. the molasses-type stuff. There could very well be enough iron in it, but we just don't know. Vinasse is lacking in Mo (molybdenum), Zn (zinc), B (boron), Si (silicon), and possibly Mn (manganese), which are important nutrients, so we know the OP isn't feeding enough of these. And, Fe, Zn, Mn (manganese) are interrelated plant nutrients affecting uptake/use of N and S (sulfur), so this may point to why OP's leaves are yellowing.

Cost of Fox Farm Tiger Bloom in UK: £14.99 for 473 ml.

Cost of BIOCANNA Bio Flores in UK: £14.95 for 1 liter.

canna boost is 50 pound a ltr fox farm would have to be imported thats why it would be more expensive ive never seen fox farm products in a hydroponic shop and did fenderbender not say he used those nutes fine or am i mistaken

 

[bluter]

canna boost is 50 pound a ltr fox farm would have to be imported thats why it would be more expensive ive never seen fox farm products in a hydroponic shop and did fenderbender not say he used those nutes fine or am i mistaken

it doesn't work on tap, and it doesn't work unless you buy in to the whole line, making you dependent on one supplier. no one in north america would put up with that.

 

[AgedMaster]

it doesn't work on tap, and it doesn't work unless you buy in to the whole line, making you dependent on one supplier. no one in north america would put up with that.

ive used shogun nutes with canna before and a friend has its cheaper. and ive only used canna a b and boost, the boost can be different and the pk ,u can grow with just a and b only start to finish and they will be fine i dont no about the bio canna

 

[bluter]

ive used shogun nutes with canna before and a friend has its cheaper. and ive only used canna a b and boost, the boost can be different and the pk ,u can grow with just a and b only start to finish and they will be fine i dont no about the bio canna

we see piles of growers fighting with it here. it doesn't seem to lend itself to different grow styles very well, and it doesn't like mixing with other nutes. everyone does better on RO with it, which flies in the face of what we are used to with organically derived nutes.

frankly i don't think it's really entirely organic in how the meaning of the word is applied. you would never need to flush in an organic nute grow.

 

[AgedMaster]

we see piles of growers fighting with it here. it doesn't seem to lend itself to different grow styles very well, and it doesn't like mixing with other nutes. everyone does better on RO with it, which flies in the face of what we are used to with organically derived nutes.

frankly i don't think it's really entirely organic in how the meaning of the word is applied. you would never need to flush in an organic nute grow.

If u look at cannas feed chart it does not show what to do when using there soil where as growell do that may have been a problem and op has grown in summer with these nutes fine using tap water i dont no where fenderbender is from

a friend of mine told me to use growell chart instead of canna calculator

 

[Fenderbender]

Oh yeah other side of pond, and for me it's totally related to the very hard tap water and would happen with other nutes as well.

 

[bluter]

If u look at cannas feed chart it does not show what to do when using there soil where as growell do that may have been a problem and op has grown in summer with these nutes fine using tap water

it's a very strong indication of how the water changes seasonally. none of it would matter with a true organically derived nute. the water source shouldn't be a factor at all. the only thing that he should need to supplement would be calmag.

a friend of mine told me to use growell chart instead of canna calculator

if it works, great. the calculator should be spot on though.

 

[AgedMaster]

it's a very strong indication of how the water changes seasonally. none of it would matter with a true organically derived nute. the water source shouldn't be a factor at all. the only thing that he should need to supplement would be calmag.





if it works, great. the calculator should be spot on though.

I totally agree with u i dont really no much about organic i have read that the rhizotonic and canazyme are not organic i just no canna is a descent nute company and when i first get my tap water if its cold its been about 7c after i add nutes the ec will go from 0.8 to 1.2 when i warm mix im going to start adding nutes when water is warmer