Kali Mist CFL Scrog Grow Journal - 05-19-13

[Scarfinger68]

I don't think I would have found it if it wasn't for your comment earlier. I just caught my wife having a peek at the girls during lights off with a high powered flash light lol. hope this doesnt mess anything up their on a 10/14 light schedule but its been lights off for 3 hours

If she did it every night you may end up with a problem.

Hi crawdaddy and welcome I'm a sativa man through and through. That's interesting to hear, thanks for sharing.

The clone is a bit of a mutant if you ask me. Her secondary branching is completely different from the 2 originals. With the originals every internode had 2 secondary branches. The clone on the otherhand usually has only 1 branch but the internodes are tighter As for the trichs, I noticed it in the originals leaves too. I didnt think much of it at the time though

That reminds me... I took 2 Snow White clones at day 21 of flowering. The have much more branching than a normal clone taken in Veg. The basically have 3 main branches. They also had the trichomes on them. They actually had flower/buds on them when I took them. I think some people refer to it as "Monster Cloning"? or "Monster Cropping"?

 

[CrimsonBlitz]

If she did it every night you may end up with a problem.



That reminds me... I took 2 Snow White clones at day 21 of flowering. The have much more branching than a normal clone taken in Veg. The basically have 3 main branches. They also had the trichomes on them. They actually had flower/buds on them when I took them. I think some people refer to it as "Monster Cloning"? or "Monster Cropping"?

If she did it every night, I'd have to spank her ass lol. Ya if there are any flowers its monster cropping typically cloned at day 21 of flower as you stated. I don't think my clones a monster crop since there was no buds at all, her branching pattern is different but I dont consider it to be faster branching than the original.

How did your monster cropped plant turn out? I've given it some serious thought few months back, but felt its probably better to veg out than monster crop

 

[b.real]

If she did it every night you may end up with a problem.



That reminds me... I took 2 Snow White clones at day 21 of flowering. The have much more branching than a normal clone taken in Veg. The basically have 3 main branches. They also had the trichomes on them. They actually had flower/buds on them when I took them. I think some people refer to it as "Monster Cloning"? or "Monster Cropping"?

i have nirvanas snow white and new york power diesel (el dorado (chemd) x aurora indica) to grow next season

 

[fish cake]

Happy Frieday Crimsonand Mrs Crimson
get her a Green LED flash light then she can look all she wants

I don't think I would have found it if it wasn't for your comment earlier. I just caught my wife having a peek at the girls during lights off with a high powered flash light lol. hope this doesnt mess anything up their on a 10/14 light schedule but its been lights off for 3 hours

 

[Scarfinger68]

If she did it every night, I'd have to spank her ass lol. Ya if there are any flowers its monster cropping typically cloned at day 21 of flower as you stated. I don't think my clones a monster crop since there was no buds at all, her branching pattern is different but I dont consider it to be faster branching than the original.

How did your monster cropped plant turn out? I've given it some serious thought few months back, but felt its probably better to veg out than monster crop

These were cloned on 4-7-13. The took 14 days to root. One of them re-veged faster than the other one. They stayed in these styrofoam cups for 3 months. I just transplanted them a couple days ago. I did have to top them because they were getting to tall.

After rooting. You can see the buds on them.

The one on the left took for ever to re-veg... maybe 30 days. (clones in background left)

as of today (3 months after cloning)

So my thoughts on it are... It takes way to long to reveg so it isn't a viable cloning technique for general growing because it takes to long. *Where this technique shines is... If you don't have room for a mother you can keep taking clones. More branching/multiple top type branches so more bud sites that a normal clone taken in Veg.

I personally would take clones in Veg and then start topping, etc., etc., and skip the whole re-veg phase. Hey! Its another tool in the tool box It can come in handy at times I did it just to try it

 

[DharmaBud]

Good Weed Day Crimson!!!

 

[fish cake]

Happy Sativaday Crimson

 

[CrimsonBlitz]

Good Morning and happy sativaday everyone, may there be a joint in every hand and a smile on every face

Happy Frieday Crimsonand Mrs Crimson
get her a Green LED flash light then she can look all she wants

Happy Sativaday Crimson

Happy Sativaday Sir Fish, Thats a great idea. I'll have to pick one up.

Good Weed Day Crimson!!!

Morning Jeff, Good weed buddy! I'll be making a pit stop over at your journal to see how big your seedlings are getting I hope their 10 ft tall and built like a rhino lol

 

[CrimsonBlitz]

These were cloned on 4-7-13. The took 14 days to root. One of them re-veged faster than the other one. They stayed in these styrofoam cups for 3 months. I just transplanted them a couple days ago. I did have to top them because they were getting to tall.

After rooting. You can see the buds on them.

The one on the left took for ever to re-veg... maybe 30 days. (clones in background left)

as of today (3 months after cloning)

So my thoughts on it are... It takes way to long to reveg so it isn't a viable cloning technique for general growing because it takes to long. *Where this technique shines is... If you don't have room for a mother you can keep taking clones. More branching/multiple top type branches so more bud sites that a normal clone taken in Veg.

I personally would take clones in Veg and then start topping, etc., etc., and skip the whole re-veg phase. Hey! Its another tool in the tool box It can come in handy at times I did it just to try it

Morning Scarfinger, your pictures and method of growing never ceases to amaze me . Very Cool experiment scarfinger, I sense a little mad scientist in you! Right on buddy. I thought about monster cropping awhile back, but after further research, I arrived at the same conclusion as you. Takes too long just to reveg (apx 3 weeks)

Do you keep mothers or do you perpetually clone? I'm using using the latter but if people prefer the mom method for small grows, would be nice to hear what the pros are

 

[Crawdaddy]

When I got my 6 clones from my buddy for my outdoor grow, I think he took them as the plants a week or two into flower. And from the beginning they have ALWAYS had the little preflowers in the stem junctions. I think they have been confused from the beginning yet they are turning out ok, so far. This plant we love so much can do some crazy and wonderful things.

 

[Scarfinger68]

Morning Scarfinger, your pictures and method of growing never ceases to amaze me . Very Cool experiment scarfinger, I sense a little mad scientist in you! Right on buddy. I thought about monster cropping awhile back, but after further research, I arrived at the same conclusion as you. Takes too long just to reveg (apx 3 weeks)

Do you keep mothers or do you perpetually clone? I'm using using the latter but if people prefer the mom method for small grows, would be nice to hear what the pros are

I have a mother plant. I mainly was taking around 10 clones from the mother each cycle. But my space is somewhat limited. So around a year or so I would take a clone to replace the old mother plant.

Knowing I had the ICE going and the Aurora Indica as backup (got 4 sprouted right now), I tried trimming the roots of my Mother plant. She looks like hell right now. I am thinking she will take a month to jump back to life.

If I can get the hang of this root trimming, I could theoretically keep a Mother plant about 2 feet tall for 10 - 15 years.

Basically a long answer to say I have done both. But the most have come from a Mother plant.

*I am currently thinking about doing a bit more perpetual style of taking clones and letting them Veg for 60-70 days while the current crop flowers.



Edit: added pics

trimmed roots

Replanted, Not looking so good right now

 

[CrimsonBlitz]

When I got my 6 clones from my buddy for my outdoor grow, I think he took them as the plants a week or two into flower. And from the beginning they have ALWAYS had the little preflowers in the stem junctions. I think they have been confused from the beginning yet they are turning out ok, so far. This plant we love so much can do some crazy and wonderful things.

Morning crawdaddy, I believe depending on the strain preflowers in veg are considered normal Sure is a wonderful plant

 

[CrimsonBlitz]

I have a mother plant. I mainly was taking around 10 clones from the mother each cycle. But my space is somewhat limited. So around a year or so I would take a clone to replace the old mother plant.

Knowing I had the ICE going and the Aurora Indica as backup (got 4 sprouted right now), I tried trimming the roots of my Mother plant. She looks like hell right now. I am thinking she will take a month to jump back to life.

If I can get the hang of this root trimming, I could theoretically keep a Mother plant about 2 feet tall for 10 - 15 years.

Basically a long answer to say I have done both. But the most have come from a Mother plant.

*I am currently thinking about doing a bit more perpetual style of taking clones and letting them Veg for 60-70 days while the current crop flowers.



Edit: added pics

trimmed roots

Replanted, Not looking so good right now

Interesting stuff scarfinger, Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. by the way, I like your workshop area.

 

[CrimsonBlitz]

Update

The girls health seems to be staying the same, I don't see any real improvement but don't really see things worsening much either. Below the screen on 1 plant has been showing signs of what appears to be nitrogen, phosphorus, and magnesium deficiency. Daily about 2 fan leaves fall off and 2 more yellow/brown. Now that most of the leaves below the screen are gone its slowly creeping up to the bigger fan leaves above the screen.

I don't know if this is normal or if this is a deficiency since its not showing up everywhere, just a couple leaves a day. This has been going on for over a week maybe 2 now.

Its been a couple days since I started using the maxibloom so I'm hoping she gets all the nutrients she needs but at this point and time I'm all out if ideas on what could possibly be wrong.

Its getting harder to tell just how much weight the girls are packing on now, but for the past few days it appears to be unchanged. I do feel like she should be swelling a lot more from comparing other journals. my clone flowering 34 days which has nothing wrong with it is swelling quite a bit daily which leads me to believe something isnt kosher with the scrog girls.

I discovered fungus gnats in my cannabis plants when my wife bought some houseplants from homedepot awhile back, I have no idea how long these little bastards have been in there but I'm reading that the larvae eat the roots, I didnt think much of it at first as they look pretty harmless but when I started to see them all over my cabinet I decided to do some research today. I also saw 1 other insect in there which I couldn't identify, its really small and was just sitting on a pistol. It looks harmless but just in case I'm gonna post up a picture.

I decided to treat with nematodes, then as a preventative measure I'll have to figure something out. A panty hose sounds great but I wonder how you'd water like that. Removing it every time seems like a pain

 

[Spimp]

f its a minor gnat issue, Fly strips really do a good god. If its like more than 20 visable, diatomaceous earth on top f will kill the larvea dead. I had a gnat issue and the fly strips and potato slice method got it under control in 4 days. Hope your having a great sativa day sir!!

 

[CrimsonBlitz]

f its a minor gnat issue, Fly strips really do a good god. If its like more than 20 visable, diatomaceous earth on top f will kill the larvea dead. I had a gnat issue and the fly strips and potato slice method got it under control in 4 days. Hope your having a great sativa day sir!!

thank you thank you spimp + reps sir! I'm really worried... I'm reading these things can severly stunt plant growth and in extreme numbers can kill plants. Their everywhere and all over my house. its quite ridiculous lol. I really dont want to spend money on nematodes and continued researching I found and skimmed an article saying H202 can kill them and actually improves root rot. I really want to knock them all out and read that while yellow fly strips do work you have to go straight to the source of the problem. larvae I will read up on the potato peal method. I have pounds of diataomaceous earth but I always get concerned using it with my wifes asthma.

I will share the articles I found, Please chime in guys. Very worried I'm okay losing a crop to a my mistake, I'm not ok with losing it to a bug. lol

 

[CrimsonBlitz]

by Xeger

Summary: A subtly dangerous pest that can attack your plants, causing serious, permanent damage with few external symptoms!
Scientific name: Bradysia coprophila (family Sciaridae, order Diptera)
Size: 3-4mm (1/8")

Description: Slender, grey or black body; one pair of clear, unveined wings. Long legs and a tendency to fly aimlessly around, alighting occasionally on the leaves of plants.


Like many insects, fungus gnats develop through metamorphosis. They start out as larvae in the top layers of soil, develop into pupae and thence into the winged, flying adult. Total developmental time to adulthood is 2-4 weeks. During the larval stage they feed on fungi in the soil as well as decaying organic matter and plant roots. Once they reach adulthood, fungus gnats typically last just long enough to seed a new generation of larvae.

Why should I care?

These little suckers are not your friends. If you grow houseplants or any kind of potted plant, fungus gnats can become a major problem very quickly. This is because the larvae, when they run out of fungus in the soil, will start to nibble at your plants' roots! While it would take a very large developing population of gnat larvae to completely destroy a plant in this way, the gnats' feasting can seriously stunt your plant's growth, causing discoloration in the foliage and malformed branches and limbs. The larvae may also aid in the spread of plant diseases with scary-sounding names, such as: Pythium, Verticillium, Cylindrocladium, and Scelerotinia.

Fungus gnats are particularly troublesome because the larvae prefer an organic growth medium. They can actually cause more harm to potted plants grown in sterilized potting soil than to plants grown in the ground! They also thrive in moist environments, meaning that overwatered houseplants are a prime breeding ground.

Marijuana cultivators particularly need to be on the lookout for fungus gnats, as the larvae, in addition to attacking the roots of your precious ganja plants, will leave behind casings that quickly ruin the drainage properties of your soil. Cannabis requires good drainage and a steady but small supply of water, so an overwatered marijuana plant that falls victim to a fungus gnat colony has two strikes against it. If an infestation occurs during the flowering stage of the plant's growth, it could seriously reduce yield.

How do I detect them?

Like most tiny flying critters, fungus gnats have an irrational attraction to the color yellow. Purchase some yellow sticky cards from a garden center; yellow sticky tape works equally well. Place the sticky cards near your plants for a few days and observe what gets caught on it. If you see more than a few gnats, there are most likely larvae in your soil.

Once you've spotted a likely infestation, cut a slice of potato of about one square inch, and 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick. Place it on the soil in your plant's pot and wait 4-8 hours. Fungus gnat larvae really love a good snack of potato. Remove the potato and count the number of larvae that have moved onto it; this will give you a good idea of how big an infestation you're dealing with.

How do I get rid of them?

Getting rid of the adults is a snap: simply give them a sticky yellow surface to land on, and within a few days you'll have enough dead adults to make a tasty dinner of gnat casserole (YMMV). The larvae are a bit trickier. The first step toward getting rid of them is to starve your plant of water for a few days, letting the top layers of soil dry completely. Larvae cannot develop in dry soil, though they can survive a drought by suspending their development. Don't worry about killing your plant; it takes serious dedication to kill most houseplants from underwatering, while overwatering a plant can kill it very quickly.

Once the soil is dry, mix 1 part hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) solution with 4 parts water. Use 3% solution, which you can find in any drug store or in the hygiene/medicine aisle of a chain grocery store. You can use a stronger solution if you change the water mixture appropriately, and don't be too concerned with proportions; it would take a very high concentration of H2O2 to hurt your plants. Just make sure you buy pure H2O2 with no chemical additives! Hydrogen peroxide is often sold as a topical disinfectant, and things that are good for your wounds may not be so healthy for your plants.

Water your plants as you normally would, using the hydrogen peroxide solution and taking care to get good coverage of the entire top layer of soil. Use a spray bottle if desired. The soil will fizz for a few minutes after application; this is natural. The gnat larvae die on contact with the H2O2. After a few minutes the fizzing stops and the H2O2 breaks down into oxygen molecules (which your plants don't mind) and water molecules (which your plants love).

Congratulations! You've just successfully treated your fungus gnat infestation. Monitor the gnat population for a few days with sticky cards, in order to make sure you've got them all. Make sure not to overwater, and consider sometimes adding a little hydrogen peroxide to your daily waterings--in my experience, the plants react well to this little treat. Watch your plants grow big and strong and enjoy the fruits of your labors, whether they be flowers, vegetables, literal fruits, or big sticky nugs of homegrown chronic.

 

[CrimsonBlitz]

by xfactor
Okay...after further research I have this to contribute...I found this on another web forum. Hope this helps as I feel much better about using this method last evening.

Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) is a clear sharp smelling substance very similar in appearance to water (H2O). Like water it is made up of Hydrogen (H2) and Oxygen (O2), however H2O2 has an extra Oxygen atom in an unstable arrangement. It is this extra atom that gives H2O2 its useful properties. H2O2 has been used for many purposes including cleaning, bleaching, sterilizing, rocket fuel, animal feed treatment and in addition many miraculous claims about its health benefits have been made. This article isn't about any of these; instead it will concentrate on horticultural applications. H2O2 is of great use for both hydroponics and dirt/soilless gardening.

What Does Hydrogen Peroxide do?
H2O2 is an unstable molecule, when it breaks down a single oxygen atom and a molecule of water is released. This oxygen atom is extremely reactive and will attach itself to either another O- atom forming a stable Oxygen molecule or attack a nearby organic molecule. Both the stable and O- forms will increase the level of dissolved oxygen. This is the method by which H2O2 is beneficial. Pre treating the water supply with H2O2will drive out the Chlorine many cities use to sterilize it. This will also degrade any pesticides or herbicides that might be present as well as any other organic matter. Well water can be high in methane and organic sulfates, both of which H2O2 will remove. Many disease causing organisms and spores are killed by Oxygen, the free Oxygen H2O2 releases is extremely effective at this. H2O2 will help eliminate existing infections and will help prevent future ones. It is also useful for suppressing algae growth. The free Oxygen atom will destroy dead organic material (i.e, leaves roots) in the system preventing them from rotting and spreading diseases.

Over Watering
Roots require Oxygen to breathe and low levels are the main cause of almost all root diseases. Both soil and hydroponic plants often fall prey to the same syndrome although it is rarely recognized as what it really is. Hydroponic crops often fail due to "root rot" and soil crops succumb to "over watering." The real cause of both these problems is a shortage of Oxygen at the root zone. In a soil system the soil consists of particles, a film of water on the particles and air spaces between the particles. When too much water is put into the soil the air spaces fill with liquid. The roots will quickly use up what Oxygen is dissolved in the water, if they haven't drunk enough of the liquid to allow air back in to the soil spaces they will stop working. In this situation roots will start dying within twenty-four hours. As the roots die the plants ability to drink water and nutrients will decrease, this will cause symptoms of nutrient deficiencies (mostly pale, slow, weak growth), and strangely they will start to wilt like they don't have enough water. It is easy to make a fatal mistake at this point and add more water.

In a Hydroponic system the cause is a more direct simple lack of oxygen in the solution; this may be from inadequate circulation and/or aeration. High reservoir temperatures also interfere with Oxygen's ability to dissolve in the water. Temperatures above 70F (20C) will eventually cause problems, 62F-65F (16C-18C) is recommended. The same symptoms will appear as with soil plants but you can also check the roots. Healthy roots should be mostly white with maybe a slight yellowish tan tinge. If they are a brownish color with dead tips or they easily pull away there is at least the beginning of a serious problem. An organic, ‘dirt like’ rotting smell means there is already a very good chance it is too late. As roots die and rot they eat Oxygen out of the water, as Oxygen levels are even further depleted more roots die, a viscous circle may be well under way. Reduced Oxygen levels and high temperatures both encourage anaerobic bacteria and fungi. The plants may still be saved but you will have to work fast.

How Hydrogen Peroxide prevents root rot/over watering.
When plants are watered with H2O2 it will break down and release Oxygen into the area around the roots. This helps stop the Oxygen from being depleted in the water filled air spaces until air can get back into them. High Oxygen levels at the roots will encourage rapid healthy root growth. In a Hydroponic system H2O2 will disperse through out the system and raise Oxygen levels as it breaks down. Strong white healthy roots with lots of fuzzy new growth will be visible. This fuzzy growth has massive surface area allowing for rapid absorption of the huge amounts of water and nutrients needed for rapid top growth. A healthy plant starts with a healthy root system.

How to use it.
H2O2 comes in several different strengths 3%, 5%, 8% and 35%, also sold as food grade Hydrogen Peroxide. The most economical is 35% which we recommend be diluted to three percent before using, as at this high concentration it can cause damage to skin and clothing. When working with food grade H2O2 it is very important that you clean up any spills or splashes immediately, it will damage almost anything very quickly. This is extra important with skin and clothing. Skin will be temporarily bleached pure white if not washed cleaned. Gloves are strongly recommended when working with any strong chemical.

Food grade H2O2 can be diluted to three percent by mixing it one part to eleven parts water (preferably distilled). The storage container should be opaque to prevent light from getting in and it must be able to hold some pressure. If three-liter pop bottles are available in your area they are ideal for mixing and storing H2O2. There are twelve quarter liters (250ml) in three liters, if you put in one quarter liter H2O2 and eleven quarter liters (250ml) water in the bottle it will full of three percent H2O2 and the bottle can hold the pressure that the H2O2 will generate. Three percent Hydrogen Peroxide may be added at up to three ml's per liter (2 1\2 tsp. Per gallon), but it is recommended that you start at a lower concentration and increase to full strength over a few weeks. Use every watering even on fresh cuttings. For hydroponics use every reservoir change and replace twenty-five percent (one quarter) every day. Example: In a 100L reservoir you would add three hundred ml's (3%) H2O2when changing the nutrient. You would then add seventy-five ml's more every day.

Where to get it.
35% food grade: called food grade because it has no toxic impurities. Of course your local hydroponics retailer, whom you can locate over the web.(there may be shipping restrictions on high strength peroxides). The local feed supplier may have it in small towns. Prices range from fifteen dollars per quarter liter to eighty dollars a gallon. One gallon will treat up to fifty thousand liters of water.

3%5%, 8% Can be found at most drugstores or pharmacies, prices start at a less than a dollar for a one hundred-ml bottle that will treat one hundred liters.

What to do if you already have root rot.

In Dirt:
Use peroxide water with an anti-fungicide and a high Phosphate fertilizer (9-45-15, 10-52-10, 0-60-0) for root growth. Or any other product with rooting hormone dissolved in it is helpful in regrowing roots and is strongly recommended. Water heavily until liquid pours out the bottom of the pot. This sound like bad idea, but it flushes out stagnant dead water and replaces it with fresh highly oxygenated water. Don't let plants sit in trays full of water, the soil will absorb this water and stay too wet. Don't water again until the pot feels light and the top inch or two of the soil are dry.

In Hydro:
Change your nutrients. Add H2O2 to the system. This will add oxygen and chemically eat dead roots. If roots are badly rotted and can be pulled away by hand you should pull them off. They are already dead and will only rot, causing further problems. Add a fungicide to kill any fungus that is probably present in the rotted tissue to prevent it from spreading. Increase aeration of the water, get an air pump and air stones, or more of them, for the reservoir. An air stone under every plant is usually very effective, but will require a larger air pump. Models that will do from forty to four hundred stones are available. Decrease the reservoir temperature, oxygen dissolves better in cold water and disease causing organisms reproduce slower as well. A good temperate range is 62F to 65F; anything above 70F will eventually cause a problem. It is also a good idea to remove any wilty plants from the system and put them on a separate reservoir so they don't infect plants that are still healthy.

Summary
The key to big productive plants is a big healthy root system and Hydrogen Peroxide is a great way to keep your roots healthy. It is a must to ensure the biggest best crops possible and to increase the chances of your plants thriving to harvest. Peroxide users will rarely lose plants or crops to root disease and will harvest larger and more consistent crops.

 

[Crawdaddy]

I hate BUGS!!!!! Except for the good ones like Mantis or Ladybugs.

 

[CrimsonBlitz]

After further researching hydrogen peroxide, I found that its supposedly quite beneficial for most plants. It's a source of oxygen, Increases plant Vigor, Counteracts pathogens, and prevents diseases.

As of now I am planning on letting my soil completely dry out to make life difficult for the larvae, I'll then water with 1 part hydrogen peroxide (3% solution) and 3 or 4 parts water. I dont have anything to cover the plants soil with so I may have to use DE (Diatomacous Earth) on top of the soil to kill any adults that will try to lay eggs, problem is DE takes about 1-3 days to kill the adults as its the infection of being cut open by DE that kills the insects, not the DE itself. Which means the adults will still be able to lay the eggs thus possibly starting the whole process over again.

Any Suggestions? Thoughts?


I believe its possible the stunted plant growth could also be from the fungus gnats in addition to missing nutrients, all the flushing to correct the ph problems has had the scrog plants soil very moist lately creating a perfect environment for the larvae.