My first grow. California Dream

[mesrone]

i am getting so confused and frustrated. i get the temp down to 83, and even went just under 83, but then as soon as i open the door even for 5 seconds, the temp jumps up to around 85?!?!?!
so the digital thermometer i got, you can see in the picture. it has two different readings. one is what the actual unit reads, "inside" temp. then theres a little cord with a reader at the end that is the "outside" temp. they are less than a foot from each other but read almost 5 degrees different? i am flabergasted.

 

[The Weed]

Take unit out of cabinet and just put probe{cord) on top of a plant in center and see what that reads after 5 mins

 

[mesrone]

well, the "inside" temp reads 75, and "outside" temp reads 82.6

other thermometer i have inside the tent reads right about 80. but i dont understand, because as soon as i opened the door, the temp jumped up almost a full 1F instantly?

 

[The Weed]

when you door is open, put heat down for a moment and does not let your fan blower suck as good when the door is closed, you break the suction that the blower has.

 

[mesrone]

well, seem to have it stable at 82 for now. would like to get it down even more, but. 82 is decent for the time until i can figure something else out. maybe find a small a/c unit to put in my room to make the intake air coolor? but well see.

weed, thanks again for your help man. youve been my number 1 in this grow so far. really appreciate it.

 

[Medifreddie]

hey Mes...sometimes it's easier to let folks go on and do their thing. LOL It's not a matter of bein right or not, it's more a case of considering any set-up's weak points before you get started and have a pre-plan for solving if these points do become issues. Headin off trouble before it comes can save a lot of frustration & grief. Dude, take a deep breath, step back and relax. You can do this if you understand what youre up against.

Here's what I see and I'm no expert. First, the smaller the grow area the tougher everything usually is. A small grow area magnifies every thing you add or dont add. Example: Turn on a a standard 60watt lite in a 10x10 room and you wouldnt notice any temperature change. Put the same 60watt lite in your closet and you could easily see a 10 degree spike simply because the area is much smaller and the lite heat has very little room to dissipate. Pretty simple concept.

Take your same small area, stuff it with a 600HD and the rodeo is on. You are goin to chase heating & ventilation issues from the time you hit the "on" switch. The tough part is going to be balancing the 2 because although they are 2 different things, they are directly related.

The other weak point may be the 600. No matter what you do in regard to vent fans/piping, it could be simply too much for your small area let alone for such small plants in such a small area. Again, a 600HD in a 10x10 room is nothing but in your small concentrated area, IMO, youre gonna have your hands full.

BTW, the closet temp has nothing to do with whether or not your lite is too intense, too close etc. In other words, your area temp can be a balmy 78 degrees but if your 600HD/HPS is only 3 inches away from the top of your plants, they'll still be toast. As i said in my earlier post, heat might become an issue but too much lite intensity for such small plants can also cause problems. I suspect you could be dealing with both at the same time.

My only suggestion(s) at this point is less lite or a bigger area. If you can, try dropping down to a 400. It isnt going to make a tremendous heat difference but it could give you the upper hand. If your heat problems persist, find something even smaller. My guess is, once you find the right lite that keeps the temps manageable, you will find your plants grow just as quick and healthy as they would using a larger lite in a larger area. You just have to find the right combo. It's out there bro, you just gotta figure out what it is. I think your beginning to overthink your project. Get back to the simple basics and have patience pard, you can do this...peace n good luck MF

 

[mesrone]

yes sir.
If switching to 400 is what i HAVE to do, then so be it, but im going to keep toggling with the 600. i am super stuborn and have to find out if theres ANY way possible.

now ive left my closet door closed for quite some time. moved my light up about an inch, and with the new fan pushing air above the light. i came back, (an hour later than my previous post) and guess what. temps were at 80.1! so i will keep a close eye, but if temps stay at 80, i will be ok with it. so i will do what i can to keep the temps at 80, if it doesnt go any lower, but after another few days i want to see if the plants come back at all.

worst come to worst ill switch back to my CFLs for another couple weeks like you suggested earlier, because now i know i can have the temps at 80, and with bigger plants, the light shouldnt be too much.

I like having you around though freddie. like a checks and balances type deal with your suggestions!

 

[Medifreddie]

Hey Mes...Check out this guy's thread. Your set-ups are quite similar. His phototron box is in essence & theory the same thing you have built. Perhaps there's something you can use as he is also discussing lighting/heat management etc vs a small area....

First Grow. Phototron box.

 

[mesrone]

i will do that.
im so anxious man, now that i have the temps down to the lowest theyve been. finally have it set up i think.
im just anxious to see what happens with the heat stressed plants. how long does it usually take for them to bounce back from something like this?

 

[mesrone]

well, im going to play it safe and i switched of the hps and turned the cfls on again. im gunna let them go cfl for a little while, speed growth back up again. they were definitely stressed, the ammount of growth that has happened in the last 3 days is hardly anything compared to the week before that looking at the pictures. so imthinking the stress had something to do with slowing them down. so figure cfls for a little while until they get alittle more canopy on them.

i jsut hope this wasnt too much stress and is going to cause them to herm later?! i hope not!! what do you think? i mean it was only for about 2 days, and i fixed the issue.


they really are not looking too good. i dont know what is going on.
reading more and more, looks like could maybe be underwatering too? the droop that a couple of them have, and the soil feels very dry. so i might have to give them a big ol flush

i am NERVOUS

 

[mesrone]

well MEDDIE and WEED, here are some more, much more in depth pictures of the plants one by one, so you can kinda see whats going on. Instead of me posting and blabbering without any pics here is something for you to reference.
Last night i actually put them in new homes, i completely forgot to update however. Just used FFOF soil and gave them a good dousing of water.
But this is one thing that had me comming to the theory of underwatering. When i popped them out of the cups, they were BONE dry at the bottom, and i had watered only just over 24 hours earlier..
anyway.
California dream A: seems healthy,no yellowing, curling or crisping

California dream B: Seems healthy as well, with a tiny bit of down curl on the tips of two of her leafs.

California dream C: seems very healthy, no yellow or curl.

California dream D: healthy as well, with no curling or yellowing, but it is drooping slightly

California Dream E: healthy for the most part, but slight down curls on the tips of leafs, as well as a burn, that actually burned its way through the leaf.

Mystery A: seems healthy, the end of that leaf was crisped really bad, so clipped it earlier before Weed told me not to. but there is just some drooping going on.

Mystery B: again, another healthy plant but has drooping

Mystery C: healthy minus the canoeing. im going to read up on what causes that, but any suggestions?

mystery D: seems healthy, but a little curling in the two bottom leaves, and has REALLY slowed in growth, much more than the rest recently.

Mystery E: the really droopy one, with burns.

bud in a cup: seems healthy, gunna try bud in a cup with this one.

so im thinking between underwatering a little bit, and heat stress, this is what is causing the drooping and leaf curling and yellowing, as like ive said before, no nutes have been used and ph is correct.

 

[mesrone]

ive been reading and reading and reading. over and over.
and i jsut keep getting more and more confused.
1.I think that the heat could have been one factor, but i have solved that, so just have to wait and see in the morning or so.
2.it looks like some kind of nute burn comparing to pictures, but again, i havnt used any!
3. leaves arent misshaped, which what i understand is a ph issue, so i dont htink ph is an issue.
4.the plants that are drooping look to be underwatered, so i gave them some water, didnt help, so now think it might be overwatered?!
5. an mg def possibly. but i just watered so i cant ad any epsom salt for at least 2 or 3 days.
6. could be light stress, so i turned off my hid, and back to the cfls and still no difference.

all of this is ust leaving my head spinning
but oh well! ill figure it out in no time!!

 

[The Weed]

"ill figure it out in no time!! " Yes you will!! Do NOT give up! Question, how long is that venting you vented to the attic? The Shorter the vent the better.

 

[greengo840]

3. leaves arent misshaped, which what i understand is a ph issue, so i dont htink ph is an issue.

A variety of issues result from poor PH maintenance. Misshaped leaves are just one of many possibilities.
Checking PH should be routine (every time you water you test the water and the run-off). It is too critical to overlook, and that would answer this question.

4.the plants that are drooping look to be under watered, so i gave them some water, didnt help, so now think it might be overwatered?!

You should know if they need water with a moister meter or the weight of the cups. Drooping is could be either.

5. an mg def possibly. but i just watered so i cant ad any epsom salt for at least 2 or 3 days.

Hold off on cures until you know what the issue is. You can really compound the problem this way. You don't put out a grease fire with water little buddie.

6. could be light stress, so i turned off my hid, and back to the cfls and still no difference.

Relax. If it was light stress and with a 600 on those small plants in that small space I believe that could easily be the case, then it will take them a few days to recover. Leaf damage wont go away. Look for new healthy growth.


Try Pming one of the grow support people. They're super knowledgeable and this is what they do; besides helping rookies like us.
Good luck!

 

[mesrone]

Thanks for stopping by and throwing some input!
I was just freaked out last night partly because I was giving my brain an overload on reading all the possible problems, and was hoping for a change near immediately.
I was just reading more and more, and kept adding to the possible list, instead of thinking through it logically. I needed to just sit back and change one or two things and relax for a little while, which is what i did.
I flipped off the hid, transplanted them the night before, watered them with 6.5 water, and flipped my cfls on.
That did the trick. There is new growth exploding in them already from the morning, the drooping leaves on one of the plants is still drooping, but the new growth is shootin for the sky and the other drooper looks way better.
No new burns anywhere and new healthy looking growth, so im back on track for now. gunna keep a close eye to see if any more burns show up, or yellowing or curling, which then im going to look at for nute issues.
But the logical thing, the burns began appearing when i turned my 600W on. How to fix? Turn it off. And i was just being ignorant to not turn it off right away, i suppose i felt like it was backtracking. But that is the point of my first grow, to learn. and learning is what im doing.
So im going to wait until they become a little larger with bigger broader leafs, and wait for my MH lamp to get here. So veg with cfls a little longer.

However, when i turned my HPS on the first time. The thermometer that i was using was about 10 degrees off, and was reading up to 85 sometimes, so really it was 95!!
I got a new thermometer, AND fixed the heat issue bringing it down to 80, so dropped it by around 15 degrees. I wonder if they would burn now with the new temps?
Well I'll just wait anyway and turn it on when they get bigger. THANKS everyone for turnin my frown upside down!

 

[The Weed]

Good Bro, Some times its good to take a couple of steps back and take a . Nothing is wrong with FLOS. I know it kills you to have that 600 on stand by. But plants are thanking you already sounds like! You will work it out!

 

[mesrone]

yeah exactly.
and from what i understand, they will be able to handle it when they get a little bigger. so well see if that happens.
if they burn again in say a week or so, then i need to rethink getting a 400w. but for now. im just gunna wait em out with the cfls. i mean, i still have 12,500lumens so thats not terrible,

 

[mesrone]

well still no MH? dont understand why its taking so long to get here. when i paid 3 day shipping on it.

anyway went to the hydro store to pick up some ferts today. which was good and a bad thing.
i picked up some maxicrop liquid seaweed. going to use that for foliar feeding. maybe add to the water once a week or so.
then i got fox farms grow big and tiger bloom, but they were out of big bloom, and have stopped carrying fox farms, so i am looking for an alternative to big bloom, any suggestions?
also picked up NSR Greenleaves growjuice.

figure i dont need to worry about flowering ferts for a while, (they jsut cut me a deal if i bought the tiger bloom as well).

But as far as veg ferts go. Im planning on using seaweed for foliar feeding (1 capfull per gal), as well as adding a little of the growjuice (1/2 oz per gal) to the foliar mix as well.

Then grow big FF (1teaspoon per gal to start), with the high N bat guano ( 1 tablespoon per gal) , and adding seaweed once a week(one capfull per gal). I might try as well to ad the growjuice once a week to the schedule as well, but well see how they like the FFGB and bat guano first with the foliar feeding. Im going to start when i empty my gallon of ph water i have now.

 

[The Butcher]

i would suggest place them together check them after a while then you'll know petty much where you stand. or get a oldschool thermometer and get an accurate reading from that.

 

[mesrone]

Well update time.
I got home from work tonight, and I guess right after I left, my MH lamp showed up!
Im super pumped. Since I figured my temp issue out from before, and this lamp is more than 10k umens LESS than the HPS, I decided to hook it up and give it a try. I foliar fed also before i went to work with liquid seaweed and the NSR growjuice, and they LOVED it!! WOW. I'm charging my camera now, and then going to take pics, but they look like different plants from the last pics i took.
Besides the already burnt leafs, they are doing GREAT. The droopers arent drooping any more (besides the two bottom burnt leafs, and there is new growth on ALL the plants!

So pictures will be up in the next 20 minutes or so.