Newbie Grower, Carmen Auto x Diva, Outdoors

[CBDMed]

Sorry, I hope this will be clearer.
Ideas:
1. SIP with re-cooked aerated supersoil 50-50 with rice hulls (commercial SIP) fed water.
2. SIP with aerated local garden mix (and I can top dress, or feed AziNutes, or pre-load the soil with GeoFlora or Garden Girl, or not. Your and @Buds Buddy 's comments would help a lot here.)

3. B284 with aerated local canna soil, and liquid nutes and NO wc (fabric pot)
4. B284 with aerated local potting mix, mixed with more rice hulls, fed with liquid nutes (fabric pot)
5. B284 with re-cooked aerated supersoil 50-50 with rice hulls (fabric pot), fed with Azi Nutes

6. Is there a better idea?
I am wide open.
Thanks!

@Buds Buddy , @Bill284 ,
Thanks!

 

[CBDMed]

@Bill284 , how do you feel about activated charcoal soaked in worm castings for a few weeks?
Or is that also not desirable?

I guess I am not really understanding why worm castings would be bad in a soil mix sandwiched with Perlite.
Can someone please help me to understand?
Thank you!

 

[Azimuth]

So here's my take...

There are lot's of ways to grow this plant, some more successful than others but almost any legit gardening combination will grow something. Plants require several things to be well grown including an appropriate soil mix, proper light, proper nutrients, air, air flow, water, etc. But, some combinations are better than others. There are also pro's and con's to each approach so one has to find the combination of things that fits with their personality, their grow environment, their access to the needed inputs, etc.

So what are your goals? Mine are to grow enough good quality medicine for my needs using resources I can mostly grow in my garden. I'm not trying to max out every plant I grow, though I do enjoy a well grown plant and it will give better medicine. To accomplish my goals I've experimented with various things that are generally consistent with how I want to grow. So, I explored organic sources of providing nutes and have avoided salt-based and bottle type nutes. Doesn't mean they don't work, but they are not consistent with how I want to grow. Could I grow more and better plants using commercial nutes? Maybe. Maybe even probably, but that's not my goal.

It sounds like you are answering your own question regarding Bill's approach. His coco approach is a good one that, in the hands of a good grower, can grow plants that rival those grown in DWC. But that requires good attention to details like monitoring and adjusting pH, and access to nutes that are appropriate for coco.

You just said you don't have ready access to his soil inputs, nor his nutrients. Ok, so that's not a viable approach for you at least at this point. File it away and maybe revisit it when you do have access.

In the mean time, look at the resources you do have access to and build your grow around those.

Our plants need access to good nutrients. For a super soil you need to gather up all of them and mix them into your soil and let them assimilate for a while to make the nutrients available to the plants. But there are plenty of organic grows that grow great plants without mixing them into the soil whether through topdressing or through various extracts.

I can't give you advice on Bill's method as I have never grown with it but I see many components of a very successful approach. But right now that's not my jam so I stick to what I do know.

My advice to you has not changed from before. Find an approach that works using stuff you have ready access to, that also makes sense to you and get some medicine in jars. From there experiment to your heart's content, but you're too all over the place and you're making "the perfect the enemy of the good."

You don't need the best and most perfect setup for your initial run(s). You need product in jars. You have all of the ingredients to have a decent grow available to you, and I think you should concentrate on putting those together to get your grow started. There will always be a shiny new object over in the corner that you can't wait to try out, and that's some of the fun of growing. But you don't even have your base approach running now to know what you'd want to change for the next round.

So, do a run using what you have at hand. That will give you a baseline that will guide you in determining what you want to change for the next round. But get started. Jump in the pool. You'll learn better as you go.

 

[CBDMed]

So here's my take...

Seems like a very good take!

There are lot's of ways to grow this plant, some more successful than others but almost any legit gardening combination will grow something. Plants require several things to be well grown including an appropriate soil mix, proper light, proper nutrients, air, air flow, water, etc. But, some combinations are better than others. There are also pro's and con's to each approach so one has to find the combination of things that fits with their personality, their grow environment, their access to the needed inputs, etc.

So what are your goals? Mine are to grow enough good quality medicine for my needs using resources I can mostly grow in my garden.

Same.
More is fun, but not needed. I just need a solid grow with good medicine.

I'm not trying to max out every plant I grow, though I do enjoy a well grown plant and it will give better medicine.

Siiii......

To accomplish my goals I've experimented with various things that are in the generally consistent with how I want to grow. So, I explored organic sources of providing nutes and have avoided salt-based and bottle type nutes. Doesn't mean they don't work, but they are not consistent with how I want to grow. Could I grow more and better plants using commercial nutes? Maybe. Maybe even probably, but that's not my goal.

It sounds like you are answering your own question regarding Bill's approach. His coco approach is a good one that, in the hands of a good grower, can grow plants that rival those grown in DWC. But that requires good attention to details like monitoring and adjusting pH, and access to nutes that are appropriate for coco.

You just said you don't have ready access to his soil inputs, nor his nutrients. Ok, so that's not a viable approach for you at least at this point. File it away and maybe revisit it when you do have access.

In the mean time, look at the resources you do have access to and build your grow around those.

Our plants need access to good nutrients. For a super soil you need to gather up all of them and mix them into your soil and let them assimilate for a while to make the nutrients available to the plants. But there are plenty of organic grows that grow great plants without mixing them into the soil whether through topdressing or through various extracts.

I think it was @Hashhound who turned me onto some cheap nutes he mixes into the soil, and just leaves it.
(Sounds good to me.)

I can't give you advice on Bill's method as I have never grown with it but I see many components of a very successful approach. But right now that's not my jam so I stick to what I do know.

My advice to you has not changed from before. Find an approach that works using stuff you have ready access to, that also makes sense to you and get some medicine in jars. From there experiement to your heart's content, but you're too all over the place and you're making "the perfect the enemy of the good."

Well, I understand that. Thank you.
Only, we are going to try to make a go of an organic farm in an era of banned fertilizers, so we are most eager to start learning AziNutes, and not everything will fit in a SIP!
So I was looking to Bill's method as an alternative, and it may yet work.

You don't need the best and most perfect setup for your initial run(s). You need product in jars.

Siiii.....

You have all of the ingredients to have a decent grow available to you, and I think you should concentrate on putting those together to get your grow started.

Siiii.....

There will always be a shiny new object over in the corner that you can't wait to try out, and that's some of the fun of growing. But you don't even have your base approach running now to know what you'd want to change for the next round.

No, I am just trying to try a bunch of things, to see what looks promising.
And I believe all of the buckets will help me to stuff jars with medicine.
If all arrows are up, and need bases are covered, why not try a few things?
That was my only thought.

So, do a run using what you have at hand. That will give you a baseline that will guide you in determining what you want to change for the next round. But get started. Jump in the pool. You'll learn better as you go.

Siiii....
I am VERY eager to get started!!
It is just that 2-3 days' wait can make a big impact in a 2-3 month grow, so it seems worthwhile to get questions answered.
I think I know what I can do.
I doubt I can get started before Sabbath, but hopefully we can get started after Sabbath.
THANK YOU!

 

[CBDMed]

@Buds Buddy , @Azimuth, this is a commercial SIP in the same bucket where I had the earlier experimental SIP.
Does this look correctly assembled?

Also, this is the plastic bucket from the experimental SIP.
Is the hole the right size (1/2")?
And is the hole at the right height (4")?
I think to put maybe four holes (one for each direction).

I hope to cover with black weed cloth, and a bungee cord.

 

[Bill284]

@Bill284 , how do you feel about activated charcoal soaked in worm castings for a few weeks?
Or is that also not desirable?

I guess I am not really understanding why worm castings would be bad in a soil mix sandwiched with Perlite.
Can someone please help me to understand?
Thank you!

I said don't put worm castings in Coco.
It alters the feeding ph sometimes.
They are great in soil.




Stay safe
Bill284

 

[Azimuth]

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, it's just you keep saying you don't have time for anything yet are talking about running a grow with 4-5 variations on a theme that will have to be tracked regularly and notes made of what worked and what didn't.

Lots of extra work there and if you don't keep up with it you'll just have a mess on your hands, learn nothing, and compromise your grow.

You do you and I'm all in favor of experimentation, but if it were me I would opt for simpler to start out especially since you're just moving in and presumably have lots of other projects that will require your attention.

 

[Azimuth]

@Buds Buddy , @Azimuth, this is a commercial SIP in the same bucket where I had the earlier experimental SIP.
Does this look correctly assembled?

Also, this is the plastic bucket from the experimental SIP.
Is the hole the right size (1/2")?
And is the hole at the right height (4")?
I think to put maybe four holes (one for each direction).

I hope to cover with black weed cloth, and a bungee cord.

Looks fine but I would assume the inserts came with instructions so I would just follow those.

 

[CBDMed]

I said don't put worm castings in Coco.
It alters the feeding ph sometimes.
They are great in soil.

Ahh, ok. Thanks!!
So the Parfaits are still in the game (at least basic versions).

Stay safe
Bill284

 

[CBDMed]

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, it's just you keep saying you don't have time for anything yet are talking about running a grow with 4-5 variations on a theme that will have to be tracked regularly and notes made of what worked and what didn't.

No, I get it. You have more experience growing than me, and you are tracking many people's grows, so I think you know more than me, and you seem always willing to help/share.
(Forgive me for noticing, haha.)

Lots of extra work there and if you don't keep up with it you'll just have a mess on your hands, learn nothing, and compromise your grow.

Yeah, sorry. I guess I should have said, I am still in the "brain damaged autistic boy drawing board phase" where I make all kinds of seemingly disconnected "observations", and it still has to be brought down in a simple-to-use form.
(I am hoping to make it simpler!)

You do you and I'm all in favor of experimentation, but if it were me I would opt for simpler to start out especially since you're just moving in and presumably have lots of other projects that will require your attention.

Yeah, I've got no shortage of demands on my attention.
I am trying to go for something simple.
Sorry it's not there yet.
Hopefully I can figure things out tomorrow, and then soak seeds the day after.
I am eager to get started!

 

[Buds Buddy]

@Bill284 , how do you feel about activated charcoal soaked in worm castings for a few weeks?
Or is that also not desirable?

I guess I am not really understanding why worm castings would be bad in a soil mix sandwiched with Perlite.
Can someone please help me to understand?
Thank you!

I'd ask @Krissi Carbone about this one. I believe she uses plenty of worm castings in her soil using self watering pots. A little different then SIP's; but same principle with an Air Gap.

 

[Buds Buddy]

Sorry, I hope this will be clearer.
Ideas:
1. SIP with re-cooked aerated supersoil 50-50 with rice hulls (commercial SIP) fed water.
2. SIP with aerated local garden mix (and I can top dress, or feed AziNutes, or pre-load the soil with GeoFlora or Garden Girl, or not. Your and @Buds Buddy 's comments would help a lot here.)

3. B284 with aerated local canna soil, and liquid nutes and NO wc (fabric pot)
4. B284 with aerated local potting mix, mixed with more rice hulls, fed with liquid nutes (fabric pot)
5. B284 with re-cooked aerated supersoil 50-50 with rice hulls (fabric pot), fed with Azi Nutes

6. Is there a better idea?
I am wide open.
Thanks!

@Buds Buddy , @Bill284 ,
Thanks!

When it comes to all these other types of soil & adding things to them.... I'm not really up on that. I've used FFOF straight from the bag for 5 years successfully so why fix what's not broken ?

 

[Krissi Carbone]

I'd ask @Krissi Carbone about this one. I believe she uses plenty of worm castings in her soil using self watering pots. A little different then SIP's; but same principle with an Air Gap.

In coco, the castings apparently impact the permeability of the coir, especially when mixed with perlite. It causes it to get too hard in incorrect proportions. I think the general rule of thumb is <10% castings.

I personally grow in FFOF soil which doesn't contain perlite and thus, I use castings upon each transplant and also once a month as a topping along with seabird and bat guano.

 

[CBDMed]

When it comes to all these other types of soil & adding things to them.... I'm not really up on that. I've used FFOF straight from the bag for 5 years successfully so why fix what's not broken ?

Yeah, I agree! If something ain't broke, why fix it?
Only, I cannot get FFOF here.
In general, things are way different here than I expected (and I have lived in Latin America for six years).
Access to stuff is spotty. A lot of times you have to make do with what you can get.

There are no "big box stores" here, like in the US.
The Big River will flow here, but shipping basically doubles everything.
They will not send FFOF.

I had a decent bagged dirt I could get shipped in from Bogotá, but the second batch was terrible. We hired someone this week to pull out the all rocks and the garbage, and bust up all of the dirt clods with a rubber mallet. I can probably still use it, but I am going to have to learn more about soil.
But we want to learn more about soil anyway, because we are trying for a sustainable organic farm, and they say that soil is most of the battle.
So, even apart from the supply chain, I need to find local solutions that work, for not too much.
I love this little green plant (and some other plants), but we have budget issues, and I cannot break the bank. We are all economizing, so I am trying to plan the experiment to teach me things about aeration and soil.
I can see that I have had the completely wrong idea about aeration up until now.
You guys are all way ahead of me, so I am just trying to learn what my girls need.
This second batch is not like the first, so I will need to learn how to improve it.

What I *really* need is to learn how to amend the soil we have on the property to work not just with cannabis, but with all types of plants in a changing world environment.
I think there are some soil and amendment threads on the forum. Hopefully I can get some time to check those out.

Anyway, super glad FFOF is working great for you!

 

[CBDMed]

In coco, the castings apparently impact the permeability of the coir,

Ahhh! The castings "plug up" the coir?? Ahh, yeah, that would mess things up.

especially when mixed with perlite.

!!
Ok, so castings and coir do not mix (especially with perlite!)!
That is very good to know! Thank you!

It causes it to get too hard in incorrect proportions. I think the general rule of thumb is <10% castings.

Ahh, ok! That is, one should use < 10% castings if the soil is coco coir (and especially if perlite is present)?

I personally grow in FFOF soil which doesn't contain perlite and thus, I use castings upon each transplant and also once a month as a topping along with seabird and bat guano.

Ahh, ok! I am not familiar with FFOF, and can't get it here in Colombia without paying exorbitant shipping, and we are trying to save on the budget.
What I need is to learn how to amend the native soil using cheap local materials. Of course that will take time, but we are hoping to improve the soil.

It sounds like FFOF is the stuff to have!

 

[Krissi Carbone]

Ahhh! The castings "plug up" the coir?? Ahh, yeah, that would mess things up.

!!
Ok, so castings and coir do not mix (especially with perlite!)!
That is very good to know! Thank you!


Ahh, ok! That is, one should use < 10% castings if the soil is coco coir (and especially if perlite is present)?

Ahh, ok! I am not familiar with FFOF, and can't get it here in Colombia without paying exorbitant shipping, and we are trying to save on the budget.
What I need is to learn how to amend the native soil using cheap local materials. Of course that will take time, but we are hoping to improve the soil.

It sounds like FFOF is the stuff to have!

I really do love it but I have seen great success with those making their own. I would just be cautious with the addition of the perlite and castings and make sure you keep the levels balanced. If it were me, I'd omit the perlite but again, I'm a soil user and I'm not familiar but with a few tid bits of the coco side. I'm happy to help make sure you didn't get a hard medium. Don't want the roots to have to endure that!

 

[CBDMed]

I really do love it but I have seen great success with those making their own. I would just be cautious with the addition of the perlite and castings and make sure you keep the levels balanced.

Oy. Maybe I had better look for the soil threads tonight.
I need to get this dialed in before I soak seeds.

If it were me, I'd omit the perlite but again, I'm a soil user and I'm not familiar but with a few tid bits of the coco side.

Ok, that is good to know.
I am a little confused, though, because this mix contain coco, worm castings, perlite, and some other manures.
Black Earth
Coconut Fiber (coco)
Blonde Peat
Worm Castings
Perlite
Mycorrhizas
Bat Guano
Trichoderms
Dolomite Lime , and
Mammoth (whatever that is)

I am not sure what percentage of the soil is coco.
This is the last bag of the original good stuff.

This is a bag of the second junky stuff, AFTER it was gone through, and the big clods busted up.
I don't like the clods, but I don't see much (if any) coco, so I would HAPPILY mix this 50-50 with rice hulls (for aeration), and use it for base soil in Bill's Parfaits.
That way I could add worm castings, and use the Perlite he recommends, but there would be no coco coir.
What do you think??

And as long as we are doing that, here is the local potting soil.
Apart from the rice hulls, I have NO idea the composition, except that it is literally "dirt cheap" (like maybe $2.50 USD for a 15 gallon bag).
They use it for all kinds of potting here (and I am sure that a ton of Colombian was grown in this stuff, back in the day).
If I had to guess, it is part soil, and maybe a lot of cheap kitchen compost, but I really do not know.
I am no expert, but to me it doesn't look bad, and they grow everything in it.
And I HIGHLY doubt they go to the trouble of adding coco to this, so that *should* be safe to use in Bill's Parfaits, WITH plenty of perlite? (What do you think, @Bill284 ?)

(Sorry, I should have taken those as closeups. Please let me know if you want me to re-take them.)

And I checked the grey perlite. It is just Ag perlite. ("Them make da pretty pearly white stuff for da rich gringo customers, mon! Dis be da Budget perlite, mon!")

I don't want too many variables, but in addition to stuffing jars, I ALSO want to learn how to make the best use of what is local, sustainable, and cheap.

I'm happy to help make sure you didn't get a hard medium. Don't want the roots to have to endure that!

Thank you on behalf of my future plants!

 

[CBDMed]

Hey @Bill284 ,
May I please check my understanding?
If I understood what Krissi was saying, worm castings plug up coco and make it hard, especially (for some reason) when there is perlite. Is that right?
And so since you like perlite, and you also like coco, you don't normally want worm castings in anything with coco, is that right?
But if it is regular soil (without coco), you are fine with worm castings, is that also right?

Well, if that is all right, then I have a few soils here, and I would think it would be the second or third.
This is a closeup on soil #1, which is my last remaining bag of "the good stuff" I bought maybe six months ago.
I am a lil' concerned about it, because they list coco on the ingredients, and this first batch of soil probably was more or less true to the original formula. So I am not real sure what coco looks like in a mix, but I WOULD suspect this bag of having coco. (This is the last bag.)

This is a closeup of the second batch of soil from the same company, AFTER we paid someone to sort through it, and clean it up.)
I believe the clots will break up eventually, but it does NOT seem to have the same composition!
(If coco is more expensive, maybe they either skipped it, or cut way back?? I am not real sure what coco looks like in a mix, but this batch seems much cheaper than the first batch, that is for sure!)

Finally, here is the local (super cheap) potting soil, which uses rice hulls for aeration.
(I like rice hulls, because when they break down they leave 90% silica, so I am trying to work them into my soils.)
They grow everything in this.
I am just guessing that many tons of pot was grown in this in the 70s (and probably still is).

I do not know, but if I had to guess, i would guess a lot of cheap kitchen compost, and cheap rice hulls.
That could be way wrong, but if coco is expensive, then I am sure they did not put any in this mix (or at least not much), so this could be coco-free.
That would mean I could use this mix with worm castings (because there is no coco).

So, Bill, what do you think?
If it was me I would guess #3 first (no coco), and then #2 (not much coco).
Obviously I have to make the decision, but do you have a preference?
Thanks.

 

[CBDMed]

Hey @Bill284 !
They are supposed to build the greenhouse this week.
I probably have to wait until the greenhouse is done to start the SIPs, but I think I can probably start building Solo cups for your parfaits, if I can settle on the soil mix.
My preference would be soil #3 (no coco), and then add more rice hulls (for silica), and also activated charcoal soaked in worm castings (biochar).
Then I would layer everything as in your photos (below).
What do you think?

This is the soil:

This picture helped me to visualize both the layers, and the syringe action.

Only, I thought there was some special mix for the crown?
Or did you have a perlite ring around the top part, to encourage drainage down the sides?
Or how do I do the crown around the peat pellet?
Also, any tips on the peat pellets?
And are you ok if I sow direct? (Or peat pellets are better?)
Thanks.

 

[Buds Buddy]

Oy. Maybe I had better look for the soil threads tonight.
I need to get this dialed in before I soak seeds.

Ok, that is good to know.
I am a little confused, though, because this mix contain coco, worm castings, perlite, and some other manures.
Black Earth
Coconut Fiber (coco)
Blonde Peat
Worm Castings
Perlite
Mycorrhizas
Bat Guano
Trichoderms
Dolomite Lime , and
Mammoth (whatever that is)

I am not sure what percentage of the soil is coco.
This is the last bag of the original good stuff.

This is a bag of the second junky stuff, AFTER it was gone through, and the big clods busted up.
I don't like the clods, but I don't see much (if any) coco, so I would HAPPILY mix this 50-50 with rice hulls (for aeration), and use it for base soil in Bill's Parfaits.
That way I could add worm castings, and use the Perlite he recommends, but there would be no coco coir.
What do you think??

And as long as we are doing that, here is the local potting soil.
Apart from the rice hulls, I have NO idea the composition, except that it is literally "dirt cheap" (like maybe $2.50 USD for a 15 gallon bag).
They use it for all kinds of potting here (and I am sure that a ton of Colombian was grown in this stuff, back in the day).
If I had to guess, it is part soil, and maybe a lot of cheap kitchen compost, but I really do not know.
I am no expert, but to me it doesn't look bad, and they grow everything in it.
And I HIGHLY doubt they go to the trouble of adding coco to this, so that *should* be safe to use in Bill's Parfaits, WITH plenty of perlite? (What do you think, @Bill284 ?)

(Sorry, I should have taken those as closeups. Please let me know if you want me to re-take them.)

And I checked the grey perlite. It is just Ag perlite. ("Them make da pretty pearly white stuff for da rich gringo customers, mon! Dis be da Budget perlite, mon!")

I don't want too many variables, but in addition to stuffing jars, I ALSO want to learn how to make the best use of what is local, sustainable, and cheap.

Thank you on behalf of my future plants!

Have you looked at Subcools Super Soil Recipe ? I hear it works really well.