Persistent leaf problem driving me crazy

[Weaselcracker]

If the 4 in 1 soil tester is what I think it is -it's junk and not worth using. Don't worry about the ph in the container right now. It will sort itself out if you feed and water properly.
The damaged leaves won't recover, but your new growth is fine and should stay that way if conditions improve. Your ph going in -it simply must be in the 5.8-6.2 range for them to thrive.
Keep giving them cal mag at about 5ml per gallon, especially if you're using distilled/RO water. You wont overdose them with calmag or cause any problems at that level.
Be careful and always aim low with the feeding levels to start. Let the pots dry out till they're nice and light between waterings.
I think that covers the basics.
I'm always saying this- but ph has always been my number one most common cause of problems in the grow over the years- and is still a constant concern. Get a decent meter. If you get a ph pen, whether cheap or expensive, make sure you get calibration solution, and storage solution . Ph probes need to be stored with the tip wet or they'll start to crap out after a while.

 

[Sejd2131]

The leaves curling mean your lighting and ventilation could be a problem. Can you tell me what you`re feeding them and how often?

 

[Major PITA]

I use Promix a lot. I never adjust the PH of my water or nute's. It is acid enough right out of the bale and comes with PH buffering.
That last pic looks like a 'P' deficiency to me.
I would never use pool chemicals on your plants. They will increase and decrease PH, but they also contain a lot of sodium which can kill veggies (sodium carbonate and sulfate). Great for pools / death for plants. PH down for plants is typically phosphoric acid and plants need 'P'.

 

[Obi Wan]

Pick a plant and test. Explanation and additional photos look like a nutrient deficiency. If you are adding nutes and calmag then you have a lockout situation. Figure out the root cause of the lockout. Locate an indoor gardening store for proper pH adjustment solution.

 

[Weaselcracker]

I use Promix a lot. I never adjust the PH of my water or nute's. It is acid enough right out of the bale and comes with PH buffering.
That last pic looks like a 'P' deficiency to me.
I would never use pool chemicals on your plants. They will increase and decrease PH, but they also contain a lot of sodium which can kill veggies (sodium carbonate and sulfate). Great for pools / death for plants. PH down for plants is typically phosphoric acid and plants need 'P'.

That's interesting, Major. That's not been my experience at all using sunshine mix. And that experience with ph has been very hard won, unfortunately. Maybe promix has better buffering abilities. Sunshine mix supposedly has lime in it as well, but even during veg I can't run my pH too low or high or I get issues.
As for the pool ph up and down- I confess that I have been using the pool pH+ for almost 10 years now with no issues. I've heard the arguments before about the sodium content increasing the salt levels. But even when mixing up a fairly strong nutrient mix, like 1000 ppm or more, the amount of ph+ only increases the ppm by about 30. So I can't see that the argument holds water.
However, if you have easy access to the proper pH up and down (I don't) definitely play it safe and use that.
I agree that you should experiment a bit and try different levels. The hydro range is the accepted one for peat based mixes, but there are differences in that range depending how you treat the grow. If you're treating it more organically and loading it up with beneficials- apparently it can take on more of a soil ph range. I don't claim to be an expert on the issue by any means. But I'm very confident about what works for ph in my particular situation- it evolved to this point by trial and error (and more error) and I would be using that range even if I hadn't eventually read, and been told, to use the hydro range.

 

[DeanB]

I'm with Major Pita, I never ph adjust my water or nutes using pro~mix. I think the problem is your mix isn't warming up and it's staying in the lower ph zone longer until it does, causing the problem. Pull one of the smaller ones out of it's container and see if there is green mold growing inside. Also see if it's getting root bound.

 

[Major PITA]

Perhaps one of the reasons I don't find a need to adjust PH is, my tap water is 7.0 and after adding the usual nute's it ends up at 6.3. If I had some of the 8.0 PH water I hear about, my story might change.

 

[DeanB]

I run mine similar except I use 7.0 RO water and I have to add epsom salt whenever i see a mag. deficiency. I don't add any Cal. because I feel the mix has enough in it with the limestone and gypsum. Back when my digital ph pen worked, i noticed too when I added my generic nutes that it dropped. So I got into a routine of using my nutes to lower my ph, then water to raise, then nutes, water, nutes, ect. Or if I see signs of too much N, I back of nutes and give water, water, next couple cycles. Also check the ph of some leftover cold organic coffee. If I get my ph too screwed up, I use that to get it back in the right direction. Remember, ph change takes a few days or more.

 

[Reptilian]

The leaves curling mean your lighting and ventilation could be a problem. Can you tell me what you`re feeding them and how often?

Hey buddy how's things. I am running 2 600w cooltubes about 1.5 ft above the plants in the room and I have 12 35w t8 flourecents 6500k spectrum. They have been getting half strength sensi grow a+b and the last few feedings I gave them half strength calmag plus. I aim for 6.5 ph of the solution which I believe it the main reason for problem. Last year I used the same starter box with a few less flourecents to start my outdoor crop and every thing was great. I used triple mix I had in the garage last year. This year I went with the promix thinking it was the same basic thing more or less. I didn't know that it was soiless person when I started nor that it kinda falls under the hydro classification.

 

[Reptilian]

Perhaps one of the reasons I don't find a need to adjust PH is, my tap water is 7.0 and after adding the usual nute's it ends up at 6.3. If I had some of the 8.0 PH water I hear about, my story might change.

Yeah using my pool test kit I tested the water from the tap and it is at the very least 8.2. The water turned really red when I added the drops of the red liquid. It went total off the chart

 

[Reptilian]

Hey buddy how's things. I am running 2 600w cooltubes about 1.5 ft above the plants in the room and I have 12 35w t8 flourecents 6500k spectrum. They have been getting half strength sensi grow a+b and the last few feedings I gave them half strength calmag plus. I aim for 6.5 ph of the solution which I believe it the main reason for problem. Last year I used the same starter box with a few less flourecents to start my outdoor crop and every thing was great. I used triple mix I had in the garage last year. This year I went with the promix thinking it was the same basic thing more or less. I didn't know that it was soiless person when I started nor that it kinda falls under the hydro classification.

I forgot to say I was feeding them that every feeding which was about once a week roughly some dried out faster than others but roughly once a wk

 

[Reptilian]

I'm with Major Pita, I never ph adjust my water or nutes using pro~mix. I think the problem is your mix isn't warming up and it's staying in the lower ph zone longer until it does, causing the problem. Pull one of the smaller ones out of it's container and see if there is green mold growing inside. Also see if it's getting root bound.

Hey deanb I have taken them out to check the roots I don't see any algae growing in there and they are due to go into bigger pots very soon.could probably go now but I have been super busy getting my room build complete so that is high on my list of things to do

 

[Reptilian]

If the 4 in 1 soil tester is what I think it is -it's junk and not worth using. Don't worry about the ph in the container right now. It will sort itself out if you feed and water properly.
The damaged leaves won't recover, but your new growth is fine and should stay that way if conditions improve. Your ph going in -it simply must be in the 5.8-6.2 range for them to thrive.
Keep giving them cal mag at about 5ml per gallon, especially if you're using distilled/RO water. You wont overdose them with calmag or cause any problems at that level.
Be careful and always aim low with the feeding levels to start. Let the pots dry out till they're nice and light between waterings.
I think that covers the basics.
I'm always saying this- but ph has always been my number one most common cause of problems in the grow over the years- and is still a constant concern. Get a decent meter. If you get a ph pen, whether cheap or expensive, make sure you get calibration solution, and storage solution . Ph probes need to be stored with the tip wet or they'll start to crap out after a while.

That's info is basically what I have been trying to follow but without an actual ph meter or pen. I did pick one up today and will be getting the solution to try to calibrate it in the morning. I just been using tap water but the pH is really high on my water. I will post a pic of the meter (4 in 1). I told my partner that I didn't think it would be that accurate but it was all we could find so at 25$ we gave it a shot.it test fertility,moisture,light and ph of soil

 

[Reptilian]

That's interesting, Major. That's not been my experience at all using sunshine mix. And that experience with ph has been very hard won, unfortunately. Maybe promix has better buffering abilities. Sunshine mix supposedly has lime in it as well, but even during veg I can't run my pH too low or high or I get issues.
As for the pool ph up and down- I confess that I have been using the pool pH+ for almost 10 years now with no issues. I've heard the arguments before about the sodium content increasing the salt levels. But even when mixing up a fairly strong nutrient mix, like 1000 ppm or more, the amount of ph+ only increases the ppm by about 30. So I can't see that the argument holds water.
However, if you have easy access to the proper pH up and down (I don't) definitely play it safe and use that.
I agree that you should experiment a bit and try different levels. The hydro range is the accepted one for peat based mixes, but there are differences in that range depending how you treat the grow. If you're treating it more organically and loading it up with beneficials- apparently it can take on more of a soil ph range. I don't claim to be an expert on the issue by any means. But I'm very confident about what works for ph in my particular situation- it evolved to this point by trial and error (and more error) and I would be using that range even if I hadn't eventually read, and been told, to use the hydro range.

The pool ph up and down is all I have avaliable currently. I am using the ph perfect from a.n but I find it has a wide range that they consider to be perfect but by adding that I have to use very little to get it to come down. I will be looking into finding some made for plants but for now I have to use what I got. I beleive it is a lockout due to the ph being too high possibly being that I have been aiming for 6.5 ish not realising that I have to be in the 5.8 to 6 zone.

 

[Reptilian]

So if it is lockout due to ph if I water just water and epsom salts for a couple waterings will that free them up or is there something specific I need to do aside from getting ph adjustment fluid. Is there a particular brand I could be looking for? What exactly does it do?

 

[Reptilian]

So I just went to peak on the girls and see how they were doing. This was the first time I was able to spend a few mins looking them over and whispering sweet nothings in their ears lol. Yeah I talk to them.so I thought I would take a few pics and update you guys on their progress. The other day I gave them each a 2L drink of calmag at full strength (5ml/gallon). I tried to ph the water around 6.3 -6.5 with the ph strip. This was before I stumbled on the promix and hydro range info. I don't know if it's just me wanting them to be improving so badly that I'm seeing things but they seem to be alot happier and perky. There is a fair amount noticeable growth just since last night when I went to say goodnight to them. I checked the ph of the mix with my 4 in 1 tester and even tho I think it is possibly not the most accurate tool I got it is saying around 6.1 ish. I plan to get the calibration fluid in the morning and if I can get this thing calibrated (ph pen) I will be ph ing some water to 5.8 or 6 and watering them till it comes out the bottom then will sit back and wait a week to see if this helps. I don't want to get ahead of myself but I think with all your help I may be starting to get on the right track. I hope so because me and my bro's have ever thing we got invested in this year's outdoor and indoor crop. I am the biggest greenthumb out of all of us and I am the one taking care of them as they are in my care so everyone involved is counting on me to get it right.... no pressure right lol. I just want to say thank you everyone that has taken the time to read and chime I'm with your thoughts and share your experience with me. This is my first experience joining a forum and asking for help like this and I am very glad I did. I'm not out of the woods yet but thanks to all of you I feel I am atleast headed in the right direction. I really want to do a journal but I worry about backlash if I do.so for now I will hold off but THANKS GUYS I can't say that enough. You guys rock

 

[Weaselcracker]

I think any brand of ph up/down intended for plants will work fine. I'm not familiar with the pool ph down so can't swear that it's safe. I used vinegar for a long time instead of ph down. Lemon juice also works.
The ph+ I use comes in powdered form. I dilute it with water - maybe about 10-1 to make it easier to administer.
Due to my experience with ph problems, I'm biased towards thinking that your problems are caused by high ph. I could be wrong. The other guys might be right. I know that if I was in the same situation as you and had an inaccurate tester and an extremely high ph water source- I'd be having similar problems. Anyway- i think it can only help to get it into the proper range- and definitely can't hurt.
IMO- generally all you need to do to fix your ph imbalance, if you have one, is to balance the ph going in, and the situation in the container will sort itself out.

 

[Reptilian]

I think any brand of ph up/down intended for plants will work fine. I'm not familiar with the pool ph down so can't swear that it's safe. I used vinegar for a long time instead of ph down. Lemon juice also works.
The ph+ I use comes in powdered form. I dilute it with water - maybe about 10-1 to make it easier to administer.
Due to my experience with ph problems, I'm biased towards thinking that your problems are caused by high ph. I could be wrong. The other guys might be right. I know that if I was in the same situation as you and had an inaccurate tester and an extremely high ph water source- I'd be having similar problems. Anyway- i think it can only help to get it into the proper range- and definitely can't hurt.
IMO- generally all you need to do to fix your ph imbalance, if you have one, is to balance the ph going in, and the situation in the container will sort itself out.

I do have lemon juice here (the real lemon stuff my wife uses for cooking) I think I'll try that. It getting the water going in at the proper pH is where I am going to start and see where that takes me as that seems to be the simplest solution. Most times the simplest one is usually the best what do they say keep it simple stupid or something like that lol. I just hope I can figure this ph calibration tomorrow I need to water the little ones tomorrow was going to give them some mag too but I don't want to water them anything again till I can accurately get the ph right and my pool strip only test down to 6.3 I beleive. Stay tuned I will update you guys on the progress or the lack thereof. Thanks again Weaselcracker I don't know where I would be without your guys help.... well actually I do I would still be reading endless pages of info and conflicting statements and opinions of so many people . Sometimes all the info out there can be alittle over welling at times trying to decipher what's accurate and what's not . I feel like I will sleep better tonight lol peace

 

[Major PITA]

I hate to say it, but I wouldn't put a lot of faith in the PH (4-way) meter. The pen type that measures PH only for liquids have worked well for me, once calibrated. The meters with probes for soil have never given me useful info.

I'm probably a lazy grower, but I don't believe the PH varying by 0.2 or 0.3 from "optimum" is going to have negative effects. In fact, I think a slightly varying PH can be a good thing. YMMV.

Anyway, your plants look pretty good so it will be interesting to see how they do. Best of luck!

 

[Weaselcracker]

Those four way things are best used for mis-measuring the garbage in the landfill, IMO.
The ph scale is an exponential one- meaning that one full point up the scale is ten times as much, and two full points up- is 100 times as much. Let's say you're aiming for a ph of 6. If your water is 8.5, it's 500 times what you are aiming for.
It's worth studying the chart below for a while. I return to it frequently - and the more times I see it the more it makes sense of what is happening with my plants.
You do need a range. There's no 1 ph value that will satisfy the needs of the plants. Thankfully, nature has saved us some work in this dept. In my experience there's a natural upward movement of ph in the root zone- if I water at 5.7- it creeps upwards in the container and I can test runoff a few days later and find it's 6.5 or thereabouts.
I feed and water at around 5.6- 5.8 and let that natural shift do the rest. If I go as low as 5.3 or 5.4- I start getting obvious N deficiency and slow growth, as well as purple stems and wilting which I presume relate to the plants missing out on P and Mg. If I feel like I've got low ph issues (I have a good meter but it still gets off by up to .4 or so if I don't calibrate it - and then it usually it reads high) I water slightly high the next time- like 6.1, to catch some of the nutrients that were missed the last time.