420 Magazine Background

Rider's first foray into LED strip lighting: Samsung H Series GEN3

Rider509

Well-Known Member
I became interested in the LED strip cobs as a replacement for the 8' T12 fluorescents in my tattoo shop, but the more I looked into them I wondered if they could be used for growing. I ordered eight of the 4' 5000k 80 CRI lights and a Meanwell driver to experiment with. If it works I have an alternative to my 16 COB Cree 3590 system. If it doesn't pan out the shop has new lights so I really can't go wrong.

8 x SI-B8R221B2HUS
1 x Meanwell HLG185H-C1050B

Using 22.5Vf the system will have a total forward voltage of 180V at 960mA. That should be a good match to the Meanwell driver and return an efficacy of 192 lm/W for a total of 33,248 lumens if my math is right. (Cap't Morgan may have been involved) That's similar to a four cob CXB3590 36V system running at 1.5A, but the cost is less at the same level of light. Once I get everything in and assembled I'll run my PAR meter under it and report back.

Anybody else using these Samsung lights?

SI_B8R221B2HUS.jpg
 

Rider509

Well-Known Member
For those that are curious, the cost of components was under $300 shipped. The frame will double as the heat sinks so there's a cost saving in not having to buy pinned heatsinks or fan cooling for the round style COBs.
 

Rider509

Well-Known Member
We should team up for a grow, Tunkers. You come up with the unorthodox grow methods and I'll provide alternative lighting and the CO2 delivery/control systems. And since we're moving into fall/winter here I volunteer to come your way.
 

Rider509

Well-Known Member
The proof is in the PAR, but on paper the Samsung is looking pretty good. I ordered the HLG-185H-C1050B for this project but I have spare HLG-320H-C2100B drivers to play with. Using six of the Samsung LED strips in a package no bigger than my existing Cree 3590 system, and using the identical Meanwell driver, it looks like the Samsung will edge out the Cree system with room to spare. Am I missing something here?

Samsung1.png


In my mind the benefit of the Samsung strip COBs is a more uniform distribution of light without the hotspots that the Cree four COB setup exhibits. Lower initial cost is a plus, as is the lower cost of operation at the same output due to the efficacy of the Samsung system.

On the down side, the Samsungs will never look as cool as the Crees with their pinned heatsinks. :19:
 

Tunkers

Well-Known Member
The proof is in the PAR, but on paper the Samsung is looking pretty good. I ordered the HLG-185H-C1050B for this project but I have spare HLG-320H-C2100B drivers to play with. Using six of the Samsung LED strips in a package no bigger than my existing Cree 3590 system, and using the identical Meanwell driver, it looks like the Samsung will edge out the Cree system with room to spare. Am I missing something here?

Samsung1.png


In my mind the benefit of the Samsung strip COBs is a more uniform distribution of light without the hotspots that the Cree four COB setup exhibits. Lower initial cost is a plus, as is the lower cost of operation at the same output due to the efficacy of the Samsung system.

On the down side, the Samsungs will never look as cool as the Crees with their pinned heatsinks. :19:
 

Scrogdawg

Well-Known Member
I'm in.

Theres a second part of the equation to consider Rider. Nutrients vs lighting. You're going to have to rewrite the nutrient schedule to match your new lighting. If you blast the Mutts with light you'll need to find and match the maximum nutrient supply so the plants can take full advantage of the light. If the lights are on steroids then the plants need to be too for best growth and yield.

So glad your back. Missed ya dude.
 

Rider509

Well-Known Member
This will save some serious coin if it works but I'm having trouble visualizing the finished product so please post a couple pics when you get it together.

You got it. Since it's a head to head competition with a nominal 48" x 24" coverage 3590 system, six of the Samsungs will be arranged side by side at 3" on center for a system size of 48" x 20". Initially I'm going to mount them to aluminum u-channel using heatsink tape. If it doesn't dissipate the heat well enough I'll order in some 1" x 4' extruded aluminum heat sinks from heatsinksusa. Even then the cost of heatsinks for the strip cobs is less than the cost of four of the pinned heatsinks I used on each 3590 build.
 

Graytail

Plant of the Year: 2014 - Plant of the Month: Dec 2014 - Nug of the Month: Feb 2015, Mar & Aug 2016, Dec 2017, Aug 2018, Jan 2019 - Nug of the Year: 2017 - Photo of the Month: June 2018
The new Samsung mid-power LEDs are the leading tech for horticultural lighting. The COBs are great, but they concentrate the source into a very small area. That's fine for architectural lighting, not so great for us with our low ceilings. A widely dispersed source is much better and these mid-power diodes are perfect for that. They're being used in strips like you're using and also on reels of half-inch tape, as well as small panels.

I just bought 26 panels with a total of 5800 diodes, 14 for bloom and 12 for veg. :slide: They'll run at almost 200 Lu/W, significantly better than the best COBs. The news is that Samsung will be releasing a new series soon with even better efficacy.

This is the future of horticultural lighting. :thumb:
 

TorturedSoul

Member of the Month: May 2009, Oct 2010, Sept 2017
The proof is in the PAR

Am I missing something here?

Probably far less than I am, lol, but... Which setup has the lowest listed lumen (or, since that's just a derived measurement, luminous flux) per watt? That might make for the best vegetative light. Because lumen (et al) is dealing with colors - and relative brightness of same, as perceived by the human eyeball/brain - and will, thusly, be heavily weighted toward the orange-yellow-green portion of the spectrum (with most weight given to yellow, IIRC).

Therefore, I'd expect lights with the highest lumen specifications to have their output somewhat(?) concentrated in those portions of the spectrum.

Or... it could be that the ones with the lowest lumen rating are simply less efficient overall, I suppose. I guess you'd need to figure out both the lumen output AND the gross efficiency.

IDK.
 

Rider509

Well-Known Member
Graytail, I've been watching since Samsung announced the Q Series, but with no announced release date I decided to just go with the H Gen3s. Besides, we all know that the newest tech is going to take a bite out of the wallet. LOL
 

Rider509

Well-Known Member
TorturedSoul, if wanting to design specifically for veg or bloom I think it'd be the degrees kelvin rating that would be the deciding factor, i.e., 3500K for flowering. (Just an example! Let's not devolve into a "what's best for flowering" discussion. LOL) A luminous flux rating is more indicative of system design.
 

TorturedSoul

Member of the Month: May 2009, Oct 2010, Sept 2017
TorturedSoul, if wanting to design specifically for veg or bloom I think it'd be the degrees kelvin rating that would be the deciding factor, i.e., 3500K for flowering. (Just an example! Let's not devolve into a "what's best for flowering" discussion. LOL) A luminous flux rating is more indicative of system design.

I'm just trying to figure out how lumen, luminous flux, et cetera has any relevance in terms of growing a plant. I've seen so many discussions (not specifically this one, just in general) where people pick LED products that have the highest ratings of those things that it makes my eyes cross. I mean... It was one thing when HIDs were "newfangled modern technology" - and not exactly an accurate forecaster for the lights' performance in the grow room even then - but now, with LEDs and the ability to create lighting devices which only produce light in discrete portions of the spectrum, it makes even less sense. To me, at least... But in the objective scientific horticultural world, too, I would think.

I wish I had the money to test efficiencies (power consumption vs. output) and then pick two products of equal efficiency - one with the highest rated lumen (whatever) specification and one with the lowest. Then do a comparison clone-to-harvest grow of each, using several clones (from ONE mother, obviously) on each separate side so as to hopefully reduce the chances of some random incident skewing my results.

Because, while I have been reading about WHY lumen is a horrible thing to use to judge grow room lighting for years, I've also been reading that - to some extent, at least - when it comes to lighting, sometimes quantity can trump quality(*). So... IDK, lol, I really don't. And I would definitely like to.

(*)Which, I guess, might explain why a high-wattage HPS with poor PAR numbers can still produce a dense canopy of stellar bud. Who knows....

Anyway, aside from all that, I am interested in this whole "LED strip lighting" thing. I've read a couple (passing) mentions of the technology, but haven't seen any grows utilizing it yet. If you decide to do a journal, I'll probably try to keep up with it (as, I suspect, will a lot of other people). I hope you end up with a room packed full of healthy, productive plants!
 

Graytail

Plant of the Year: 2014 - Plant of the Month: Dec 2014 - Nug of the Month: Feb 2015, Mar & Aug 2016, Dec 2017, Aug 2018, Jan 2019 - Nug of the Year: 2017 - Photo of the Month: June 2018
............LM561c vs 1000DE
669........63.37%.......watts..........1055
182.4....128.27%..... Lu/Watt......142.2
1.76......139.05%..... ppfd/W.........1.26
261........39.56%...... HeatWatts.....660
1194......94.41%...... ppfd...........1265
373........99.77%...... PARwatts......374
295........43.37%...... HeatWatts.....681

These are the performance numbers for my setup vs a 1000W double-ended hps.

:Namaste:
 

TorturedSoul

Member of the Month: May 2009, Oct 2010, Sept 2017
............LM561c vs 1000DE
669........63.37%.......watts..........1055
182.4....128.27%..... Lu/Watt......142.2
1.76......139.05%..... ppfd/W.........1.26
261........39.56%...... HeatWatts.....660
1194......94.41%...... ppfd...........1265
373........99.77%...... PARwatts......374
295........43.37%...... HeatWatts.....681

These are the performance numbers for my setup vs a 1000W double-ended hps.

So, according to the above (grabs calculator)... You've dropped from 150,021 lumen to 122,025.6 lumen.

Since PAR watts are about the same (actual wattage has dropped significantly), I'd expect your yield to be roughly comparable. IF all other factors (ambient temperature, CO₂, same sized clones from the same mother, et cetera) were equal. But the physical package would be a factor, too (IMHO). And that'd be a tough one to make equal. Hmm...

Have you had a harvest from each setup yet, and were all other variables the same (or at least as many as could be controlled without heroic effort and technological breakthroughs, lol)? It wouldn't close the door on the lumen thing, of course. But it'd be... what would Perry Mason have called it? Corroborating evidence.

For those that are curious, the cost of components was under $300 shipped. The frame will double as the heat sinks so there's a cost saving in not having to buy pinned heatsinks or fan cooling for the round style COBs.


$300 is the all-in price? And that's for how many watts (consumed, at "from the wall" voltages)?
 

Mayne

Well-Known Member
............LM561c vs 1000DE
669........63.37%.......watts..........1055
182.4....128.27%..... Lu/Watt......142.2
1.76......139.05%..... ppfd/W.........1.26
261........39.56%...... HeatWatts.....660
1194......94.41%...... ppfd...........1265
373........99.77%...... PARwatts......374
295........43.37%...... HeatWatts.....681

These are the performance numbers for my setup vs a 1000W double-ended hps.

:Namaste:

Good numbers bro.

Im just finishing up my LED strip build myself man. 600 par, 38,000lux, @ 24 inches, 200 watts. fabricating aluminum tonight for it. about $100 into it, minus little things like Dual timer, GrowMau Puck,

Its dual spectrum, i have switches to turn off each spectrum, ( 3k-5K ) and a meter to monitor volts, watts, amps, build into the encasement. Using a 360watt power supply, running in parallel at 12Volts, but can dim down to 10.5 volts, and run at 90 watts, and still get decent par of 370 and lux of 21,000 at 24inches.

cant wait to have it complete,

good luck with your build man, cant wait to check it out for sure.
 

Rider509

Well-Known Member
.

These are the performance numbers for my setup vs a 1000W double-ended hps.

:Namaste:


With numbers like that it's hard to argue against high quality, high efficacy LEDs. While I was transitioning to the 3590s I ran 8 of them on one half of a 4' x 4' tent and a 600W MH/HPS on the other side and the 3590s ate the HPS up. My present setup is 16 CXB3590s over a 4x4 and the MH is relegated to veg duties. I hate HPS and blurple LEDs. I want to see white light bathing my beauties.
 

Rider509

Well-Known Member
And that's for how many watts (consumed, at "from the wall" voltages)?

Don't get high energy consumption at the wall confused with the amount of photosynthetically available light energy. A heater may pull 1500W at the wall but deliver zero usable light energy. The Holy Grail of lighting would be a device that converts 100% of available energy into usable light.

A great read if you want to better understand light as it applies to growing is on the Fluence website. I can't post an external link, but if you Google "fluence par-ppf-ppfd-dli" it'll get you there. It's very informative and well presented. Enjoy!
 
Top Bottom