Sauga's Ride On The Pineapple Express

[farside05]

Great article Farside. See the huge jump in THC from AN-5 to AN-6. Almost tripled.

But still the mystery is why then? You see it as much as we all do it's so much more common after flip. Is it possible at the time we are locking Ca out somehow with high NPK values?

Trying to find the answer to this tonight. I may have stumbled on it.

First, the AN study results have Veg as a single entry. There is no date associated with it to know if it's early veg, mid, or transition before bloom. You don't get to see a weekly progression like you do on the bloom numbers. Shame. There could just be a big spike at transition and that's why it's we see deficiencies show up when they do.

The fine folks at Pro Mix published THIS back in October of 2018. The answer may lie within and be exactly what you speculated:

"Calcium deficiency can arise if levels in the fertilizer solution are less than 40-60 ppm and/or potassium, magnesium, or sodium levels are too high."

Since it's common to switch to a bloom food higher in K or use other K boosting supplements, or a combination of both, it could be the over feeding of K that is causing a lockout on the Calcium side during bloom. So what do we do? Throw more Cal-Mag at it. Is it really that our solutions were Cal deficient in the he first place? Probably not. It could still potentially solve the problem by changing the blended N-P-K of the solution and therefore reducing the K in proportion to everything else. Probably the better way to handle it is to reduce the amount of K in the solution in the first place. Without a PhD in Botany, I'll run with that explanation. At least it satisfies my curiosity.

 

[farside05]

@MrSauga @InTheShed

More ramblings and calculations in reference to my prior post...

So, Pro Mix folks say Calcium deficiencies can arise when levels in the fertilizer are less than 40-60 ppm. This is generic and not cannabis specific, but from everything I've seen, cannabis falls into the general category of plants. As much as we like to think of it as special (it is in other regards) it's just an ordinary plant as far as nutrition goes. Every gram of Mega Crop provides 15 ppm of Calcium. So 5 grams (around what we're feeding for full veg and bloom) is providing 75 ppm of Calcium. That should be sufficient on it's own without needing Cal-Mag. If there are signs of Calcium deficiencies, look at what you are providing in the way of Potassium as the culprit. Sauga, you're feeding their Sweet Candy too? That's got 16% K! Maybe adding it is the culprit. I just started with the Mega Crop and didn't supplement anything else. I'm now pretty sure I won't supplement any Pro Tekt or Terpinator when using the Mega Crop since they both have additional K and Mega Crop itself already contains quite a bit.

 

[InTheShed]

But if you're just using MegaCrop, what would you do if you saw a Ca or Mg deficiency show up? Add cal-mag or bump the MegaCrop?

 

[farside05]

But if you're just using MegaCrop, what would you do if you saw a Ca or Mg deficiency show up? Add cal-mag or bump the MegaCrop?

Trusting the folks at Greenleaf, their suggestion is add more Mega. I hope they wouldn't intentionally create a product that used correctly, on it's own, would cause lockout.

I crunched all kinds of numbers, and substituting enough Cal Mag (which is 2% Cal, vs the 5.6% in Mega) and keeping the Nitrogen load equal in the two mixtures (you know me and my N loading calcs) you end up right back at the same 9-6-17 NPK that the Mega already has. So I don't see a possible way to reduce the blended K number. Conclusion, Greenleaf is right, up the Mega.

 

[farside05]

Ok, you can tell I've had too much time on my hands at work tonight. My stream of consciousness style of posting has taken over Sauga's thread so after this I'll shut up.

I did find some data on ppm levels that are considered toxic in growing media. That number would be 350. Mega plus Sweet Candy comes out to 266 (assuming a dose of 5g Mega and 1g Candy). So I wouldn't think at that level it would be interfering with the Calcium uptake. If you did show a deficiency in Ca, you could increase the Mega to solve it without going over the 350 limit. 6g of Mega would bring you up to 311. Also, the blended N-P-K doesn't change much by using Sweet Candy since the recommended dose is just 1g.

In my case, if I decided to supplement Silica and add Terpinator too (4ml Pro Silica and 5ml Terpinator) instead of the Candy, I'd be at 317. Still safe but getting closer to the 350. If I showed a Ca deficiency I could not increase Mega without causing a toxic situation. The resulting ppm with 6g Mega would be 361. I'd have to use Cal Mag which doesn't have the extra K.

The article I found on K toxicity also said there is no benefit derived from K levels over 250 ppm. Doing more calculations, that would mean anything over a 1:2 ratio of N to K is not beneficial and at a 1:3 you risk toxicity. So the Mega on it's own is 9:17, and the Mega and Candy is 1:2. I know I've done calculations before on AN's suggested mix from their app and theirs in bloom is 1:3. So they go all the way to the ragged edge.

 

[MrSauga]

Sauga, you're feeding their Sweet Candy too? That's got 16% K! Maybe adding it is the culprit. I just started with the Mega Crop and didn't supplement anything else. I'm now pretty sure I won't supplement any Pro Tekt or Terpinator when using the Mega Crop since they both have additional K and Mega Crop itself already contains quite a bit.

Huh, quite possible. It never appeared on the WW. Used MC from start to finish, no extras, just calmag as maintenance as mentioned before.
So, I'll drop the Sweet Candy, my next feeding will be straight pH'd water, and then I'll go back with MC only, no calmag. I've added enough in there the last couple of feedings that it's probably just sitting there waiting to be used.

Ok, you can tell I've had too much time on my hands at work tonight. My stream of consciousness style of posting has taken over Sauga's thread so after this I'll shut up.

Finally, someone took over my Journal. This is a lot of work!

Thanks for digging in to all that for us farside! You added great insight to the the MegaCrop formula and how it's best used. I admire people like you and Shed who go out of their way to find answers that most others, like myself, are not even thinking of.
Excellent read and thanks again!

 

[farside05]

Huh, quite possible. It never appeared on the WW. Used MC from start to finish, no extras, just calmag as maintenance as mentioned before.
So, I'll drop the Sweet Candy, my next feeding will be straight pH'd water, and then I'll go back with MC only, no calmag. I've added enough in there the last couple of feedings that it's probably just sitting there waiting to be used.


Finally, someone took over my Journal. This is a lot of work!

Thanks for digging in to all that for us farside! You added great insight to the the MegaCrop formula and how it's best used. I admire people like you and Shed who go out of their way to find answers that most others, like myself, are not even thinking of.
Excellent read and thanks again!

No problem. Nutes seem to be an obsession of mine. It helped a slow night at work go by faster and helped deepen my understanding of the subject. I'm sure in a couple days it will cause me to come up with several other questions myself. I actually edited that last post twice adding new stuff as thoughts came in.

 

[MrSauga]

Edit is my favorite tool here

 

[farside05]

Edit is my favorite tool here

Almost every post of mine is edited to correct spelling mistakes. Not this one though because I was able to use speech to text.

 

[Preston9mm]

Almost every post of mine is edited to correct spelling mistakes. Not this one though because I was able to use speech to text.

Haha!
My huge fingers are the reason I'm so familiar with the edit function. LoL

If you guys could only see what my posts look like before I proofread them. LoL

 

[MrSauga]

IKR, I remember one post was like 5 lines, and I edited it four times.

Edit: And then I edit a post that hasn't posted and write Edit it in and realize that it hasn't even been edited

 

[farside05]

I have relatively small hands, a 6-inch screen, still managed to hit the wrong buttons, and a neurotic autocorrect that likes to substitute totally unrelated words.

 

[Preston9mm]

I have relatively small hands, a 6-inch screen, still managed to hit the wrong buttons, and a neurotic autocorrect that likes to substitute totally unrelated words.

Forking auto-correct

 

[farside05]

It's probably part of the Chinese' cruel joke on us Americans. "Let's make wide eyes spend half his day editing messages." Damn ZTE phone.

 

[Preston9mm]

It's probably part of the Chinese' cruel joke on us Americans. "Let's make wide eyes spend half his day editing messages." Damn ZTE phone.

Haha!
#fatfingerroundeye

 

[AngryBird]

I have relatively small hands, a 6-inch screen, still managed to hit the wrong buttons, and a neurotic autocorrect that likes to substitute totally unrelated words.

See my posts... Same here.. Need a keyboard

 

[InTheShed]

Great info on the overnight here. Thank you farside!

I'm usually on a full-sized keyboard so my edits tend to be correcting everything I say that will be taken the wrong way .

 

[MrSauga]

Wow, for all you new growers trying this at home, and you made it this far through my journal, then you now understand the importance of starting one yourself.
Members helping members is the heart and soul of these forums and you get that by interacting. I can't believe what I learned last night and was so excited to give my plants no Calmag and drop the Sweet Candy, but nobody was thirsty.
That's a good sign, as the pics below are from the girl who's really slowed her drinking down. This was noticed about a week ago and I had a small discussion with Shed and Amy about it, so I think I'm getting close to the harvest window now. Maybe within the week.

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• MrSauga
• Feb 22, 2019

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• MrSauga
• Feb 22, 2019

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• MrSauga
• Feb 22, 2019

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• MrSauga
• Feb 22, 2019

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• MrSauga
• Feb 22, 2019

 

[InTheShed]

Those suckers are hand grenades MrS! That's gonna be a hell of a harvest .

 

[MrSauga]

Ya well you know, it's a Canadian thing. Use the metric system for nutes and you too can have hand grenades. And you have to say eh when done..something like..good job eh?