Soil Questions

[Emilya Green]

but didn’t want to (or couldn’t) fully commit to organic.

This is what I dont understand. What is not fully committed to organic about using Geoflora? It is organic. You can't get any more organic, if we are talking about the organic feeding cycle. There is no difference in what happens here than in an LOS or TLO or Supersoil grow... microbes process raw nutrients and feed it to the plants. Geoflora has simply made a way to do all of this without having to bring in wheelbarrows and cement mixers and all the backbreaking work that goes into blending up a living soil and cooking it. One application, and you get microbes and nutrients. Maybe it doesn't seem organic because it is too easy?

 

[seaofgreen18]

What comes to mind for me in organics is a clean QUALITY product lacking of heavy metals with sustaibility.
Once a mixture is made I keep reusing it now, after the main root Ball is removed I might have to replinsh with a little pro mix hp but otherwise every year it goes into a pile outside and next spring I'll test it to see what it need them add if need be as far as inside goes, same thing ,after harvest I extract the main root ball leave the feeder roots get a soil test and amend as needed
I double dig the bed but it is some work upfront but less work and problems with MIN. inputs until harvest you.
if I mix new soil I mix KIS amendment mix,insect frass ,charged bio char , homemade castings , then to feild capacity and check pH turning it over once a day for the next week to let the heat settle down Incase of thermal breakdown. Buts that's just how I do it have a GREAT DAY my friend I know it's confusing but it's ok as you go along you'll get better and better before you know it you'll do it in your sleep then you'll be helping someone to do this

 

[bluter]

What comes to mind for me in organics is a clean QUALITY product lacking of heavy metals with sustaibility.
Once a mixture is made I keep reusing it now, after the main root Ball is removed I might have to replinsh with a little pro mix hp but otherwise every year it goes into a pile outside and next spring I'll test it to see what it need them add if need be as far as inside goes, same thing ,after harvest I extract the main root ball leave the feeder roots get a soil test and amend as needed
I double dig the bed but it is some work upfront but less work and problems with MIN. inputs until harvest you.
if I mix new soil I mix KIS amendment mix,insect frass ,charged bio char , homemade castings , then to feild capacity and check pH turning it over once a day for the next week to let the heat settle down Incase of thermal breakdown. Buts that's just how I do it have a GREAT DAY my friend I know it's confusing but it's ok as you go along you'll get better and better before you know it you'll do it in your sleep then you'll be helping someone to do this

you're doing greenhouse in beds though aren't you? indoor in container is a different animal even in organics.

 

[Keffka]

Maybe it doesn't seem organic because it is too easy?

That’s a fair assessment, as I view the actual work of organic growing as a pretty important component in the process. Which tells me my opinion is likely rooted in some sort of weird ableist superiority complex I’m not acknowledging.

Fully committed to organic growing in my mind involves the work and balancing that goes into creating a strong LOS (gonna use that as an umbrella for SS, TLO, etc.). Creating the conditions for and spawning said microbes with your own ideas/recipes. Establishing a healthy, balanced soil food web using inputs tailored to your environment, methods and strains.

The entire process from sourcing, measuring, mixing, balancing and cooking all the way to the actual grow itself. All of it is interconnected in my mind and part of organic growing. It’s much more intimate and personal to me doing this as opposed to reading the directions on a container and feeding as directed.

I’ll have to put more thought into this because there’s obviously something I’m holding on to but I’m not sure what or why lol.

 

[seaofgreen18]

What comes to mind for me in organics is a clean QUALITY product lacking of heavy metals with sustaibility.
Once a mixture is made I keep reusing it now, after the main root Ball is removed I might have to replinsh with a little pro mix hp but otherwise every year it goes into a pile outside and next spring I'll test it to see what it need them add if need be as far as inside goes, same thing ,after harvest I extract the main root ball leave the feeder roots get a soil test and amend as needed
I double dig the bed but it is some work upfront but less work and problems with MIN. inputs until harvest you.
if I mix new soil I mix KIS amendment mix,insect frass ,charged bio char , homemade castings , then to feild capacity and check pH turning it over once a day for the next week to let the heat settle down Incase of thermal breakdown. Buts that's just how I do it have a GREAT DAY my friend I know it's confusing but it's ok as you go along you'll get better and better before you know it you'll do it in your sleep then you'll be helping someone to do this

Idk I do it all the same just different containers. Key is soil testing and interruption of the test my grow supplier help with this I am in touch with a biologist with quite the background in horticulture and he's ALWAYS on the money with his advice

 

[seaofgreen18]

That’s a fair assessment, as I view the actual work of organic growing as a pretty important component in the process. Which tells me my opinion is likely rooted in some sort of weird ableist superiority complex I’m not acknowledging.

Fully committed to organic growing in my mind involves the work and balancing that goes into creating a strong LOS (gonna use that as an umbrella for SS, TLO, etc.). Creating the conditions for and spawning said microbes with your own ideas/recipes. Establishing a healthy, balanced soil food web using inputs tailored to your environment, methods and strains.

The entire process from sourcing, measuring, mixing, balancing and cooking all the way to the actual grow itself. All of it is interconnected in my mind and part of organic growing. It’s much more intimate and personal to me doing this as opposed to reading the directions on a container and feeding as directed.

I’ll have to put more thought into this because there’s obviously something I’m holding on to but I’m not sure what or why lol.

I'm with you in that . What's REALLY IMPORTANT to me is the natural way it's less disruptive of the environment and it's better for me I don't mind the extra work it's TOTALLY WORTH IT.
Organics is a lifestyle and personal,not just a way of growing plants!

 

[seaofgreen18]

The motto around our house is "If we can't reuse it,We it!"

 

[seaofgreen18]

That’s a fair assessment, as I view the actual work of organic growing as a pretty important component in the process. Which tells me my opinion is likely rooted in some sort of weird ableist superiority complex I’m not acknowledging.

Fully committed to organic growing in my mind involves the work and balancing that goes into creating a strong LOS (gonna use that as an umbrella for SS, TLO, etc.). Creating the conditions for and spawning said microbes with your own ideas/recipes. Establishing a healthy, balanced soil food web using inputs tailored to your environment, methods and strains.

The entire process from sourcing, measuring, mixing, balancing and cooking all the way to the actual grow itself. All of it is interconnected in my mind and part of organic growing. It’s much more intimate and personal to me doing this as opposed to reading the directions on a container and feeding as directed.

I’ll have to put more thought into this because there’s obviously something I’m holding on to but I’m not sure what or why lol.

You do it because Its the right thing to do for you and the environment that's why lol well that's my guess well that's why I do it it's taken a few years to get somewhat good and I'm learning something new and getting better all the time you should have seen all the pretty purples and burgundy colors when I first started

 

[seaofgreen18]

You do it because Its the right thing to do for you and the environment that's why lol well that's my guess well that's why I do it it's taken a few years to get somewhat good and I'm learning something new and getting better all the time you should have seen all the pretty purples and burgundy colors when I first started

And I don't mean in flower either

 

[bluter]

even non-organic inputs should be rehabilitated through the outdoor veggie garden when finished in the happy garden.

 

[Chrondocious]

I don't understand why people are saying Geoflora isn't truly organic. It does carry the OMRI label and is certified as organic. Checking the ingredients list shows that ALL of its inputs are organic.

There is nothing not organic about Geoflora. I don't understand why Canada does not allow its import, but I don't understand a lot of things about my neighbors to the north.

Check out the ingredients list, and I defy you to find something not organic that is included in the product.

Key Ingredients — Geoflora Nutrients

Geoflora Nutrients contains 19 organic fertilizer nutrient sources specially selected to drive growth, boost flowering, and improve yields. Find out more inside.

www.geofloranutrients.com

Most of us soil guys dont consider anything chelated, organic. Pre chelated I mean.

 

[seaofgreen18]

Untested soil from my year before Gro soil same recipe same pH just no amendment

 

[Chrondocious]

This is what I dont understand. What is not fully committed to organic about using Geoflora? It is organic. You can't get any more organic, if we are talking about the organic feeding cycle. There is no difference in what happens here than in an LOS or TLO or Supersoil grow... microbes process raw nutrients and feed it to the plants. Geoflora has simply made a way to do all of this without having to bring in wheelbarrows and cement mixers and all the backbreaking work that goes into blending up a living soil and cooking it. One application, and you get microbes and nutrients. Maybe it doesn't seem organic because it is too easy?

Then its pre chelated. You dont need to cook living soil. If you use good quality compost and plant based inputs. Im sure its a good product, kinda sounds like mammoth P. I wont use that either. Not trying to argue, just share why some of us don't consider it organic. I like to say I grow naturally instead. Why buy something, when microbes and worms do it for free?

 

[seaofgreen18]

Lasts year's soil from the pile outside amended same pH as the veggies
Maui

 

[seaofgreen18]

Then its pre chelated. You dont need to cook living soil. If you use good quality compost and plant based inputs. Im sure its a good product, kinda sounds like mammoth P. I wont use that either. Not trying to argue, just share why some of us don't consider it organic. I like to say I grow naturally instead. Why buy something, when microbes and worms do it for free

I read what you say about cooking living soil and I hate to disagree about the living soil thing it needs to sit before using after reamending it still has a thermal reaction, it doesn't cook but it gets a little warm for the tender roots in seedlings and young plants in the rhiosphere from plant based inputs it does heat up maybe not to 150/ 160 like unfinished compost but it does heat up due to the bacteria breaking down the plant based products as food so We agree to disagree on that

 

[bluter]

Then its pre chelated. You dont need to cook living soil.

every LOS grow recipe from base requires cooking. what it comes done to is who is splitting the hairs on what is and isn't organic.

that's why i really don't care about organic now. it's all the same to the plant. the only way to get off the nute grid to full organic is closed loop, where you don't bring anything in.

 

[seaofgreen18]

I shoot for inputs without heavy metals or ones that actually show a heavy test on products it's hard heavy metals are everywhere it's a matter of who has the least amount in their products

 

[cbdhemp808]

That’s a fair assessment, as I view the actual work of organic growing as a pretty important component in the process. Which tells me my opinion is likely rooted in some sort of weird ableist superiority complex I’m not acknowledging.

Fully committed to organic growing in my mind involves the work and balancing that goes into creating a strong LOS (gonna use that as an umbrella for SS, TLO, etc.). Creating the conditions for and spawning said microbes with your own ideas/recipes. Establishing a healthy, balanced soil food web using inputs tailored to your environment, methods and strains.

The entire process from sourcing, measuring, mixing, balancing and cooking all the way to the actual grow itself. All of it is interconnected in my mind and part of organic growing. It’s much more intimate and personal to me doing this as opposed to reading the directions on a container and feeding as directed.

I’ll have to put more thought into this because there’s obviously something I’m holding on to but I’m not sure what or why lol.

I'm actually not familiar with those acronyms, so here's what I understand...

SS - "Super Soil" - originally from SubCool's Super Soil
LOS - "Living Organic Soil" - originally from Coot's No Till Living Organic Soil
TLO/TLOS - "Total Living Organics" - originally from Rev's Total Living Organics Soil

Did I get it right? Common thread... the soil is alive with microorganisms, and those organisms are supported by, and in a relationship with, the nutrients in the soil and the roots of the plant.

Anyway... here's my 2 cents on the subject of "organic growing" with respect to cannabis...

First, "organic" means different things to different people. There is no standard that I'm aware of, except for the general organic agriculture standards, which include OMRI certified inputs. When I grew up, my dad was an organic gardener at our home in Calif. Compost was a big part of growing organic.

I'm totally on board with @seaofgreen18 ... I always check for lab tests on heavy metals. OMRI products aren't necessarily great in terms of heavy metals, but I think generally you've got a better chance than non-OMRI products. The Calif. database has up-to-date lab test results for most commercial fertilizers: CDFA Fertilizer Product Database

Why care about heavy metals in the soil? Because cannabis is well known for drawing metals and toxins out of soil. If heavy metals are present in the soil, they will definitely end up in your resin. It becomes a concern when the amounts reach unhealthy levels. This is a big deal in the CBD oil industry, for example, where companies test their end product for heavy metals, and typically lead is the big one. Back when I was buying a lot of CBD oil for personal consumption, I wouldn't buy from a company that didn't have a stellar heavy metals lab test result. One of the biggest CBD companies, Ananda Hemp, actually had a step in their process to remove lead.

I use OMRI products, and I also use homegrown worm castings. Also myco. And I have also started adding Mikrobs, which is very similar to Recharge. I have added Mikrobs to my worm bins, in the hope to naturalize the microbes in the bins. Mikrobs includes 3 strains of trichoderma, by the way.

Another big factor in this discussion is convenience. For some people, grabbing a bag of soil from the store, and some liquid ferts, is exactly where they're at in terms of convenience. For others, like me, I like to pick and choose OMRI products and build my own soil. Nonetheless, I also like a level of convenience, and then you get into a tradeoff between a) convenience, and b) maximizing your grow results. We all know that there's a spectrum of possible grow results, from the pitiful to the spectacular. A lot of us are happy with the 80-90% range. Some people want to go for 99%. (Is there a 100% mark? )

So, to sum up... I like to mix my own living soil, using a variety of OMRI products from Down to Earth, which are available at my local grow shop or farm supply store. The only ferts I use that are animal derived are bat guano and seabird guano, and those are pre-composted and dry. I don't worry about cooking (i.e. allowing microbes to break down the ingredients). I figure any breaking down that needs to happen will happen by the time the root system gets big enough. I've generally been having great results, in terms of plant vigor, and no nutrient problems. My main concerns are container size, timing, and dealing with all the fungus and mold spores here in my tropical zone in Hawaii. This year I had tall sativas looking actually quite healthy in 1 gal pots! (Clone moms and dads. Yes dads! ... photosensitive equatorial sativa.)

have a great day folks.

 

[Emilya Green]

Then its pre chelated. You dont need to cook living soil. If you use good quality compost and plant based inputs. Im sure its a good product, kinda sounds like mammoth P. I wont use that either. Not trying to argue, just share why some of us don't consider it organic. I like to say I grow naturally instead. Why buy something, when microbes and worms do it for free?

Sorry, but you need to look up the definition of the word chelation. Chelation is a type of bonding of ions and molecules to metal ions. Nothing in GeoFlora is chelated. Chelation is what is done to bottled nutes, to lock up some of the minerals in a salt bond so that they can't interact with each other in the bottle.

Second... you can't just mix up the components used in a living soil and immediately use it as a soil. It MUST be cooked or composted first. To make living soil out of a mix, it needs to be "cooked" or composted for a while to break down and merge the individual components into the congealed substance that we call soil.

Third, I about choked when I read your advice that you must use plant based inputs. OK... find me a plant based source of potassium please. Or a plant based source of calcium, iron, magnesium, etc etc.

I will make my main point again. To be an organic grow means that the raw materials are there for the microbes to process. The plant sends signals to the microbes to tell them which nutrients are needed and then the microbes get rewarded for doing so. The gardener has no role is this other than keeping the soil moist, the microbes feed the plants. This is the organic feeding cycle. Whether it happens in coco with GeoFlora providing everything that is needed to allow this to happen, or in a living soil where the elements are cooked in and the microbes thriving, it is still an organic grow. This label has very little to do with being all natural... even a man produced supplement, supplied in a way that the microbes can take over and deliver it to the plant, can still support an organic grow.

 

[Keffka]

be an organic grow means that the raw materials are there for the microbes to process. The plant sends signals to the microbes to tell them which nutrients are needed and then the microbes get rewarded for doing so

This is what shut me up and made me reassess, because it’s exactly what Geoflora does. I think there’s a chance a lot of people aren’t familiar with the fact that this is how Geoflora works and are used to typical Organic acid heavy “organic” nutrient lines. There are no chelates, there are no organic acids, there are none of the marketing gimmicks to make you feel like a sustainable gardener while leaving a massive footprint.

If you look at the ingredients in Geoflora, almost every organic grower has the majority of said ingredients and we use them in our grows:

I use every one of those amendments in my mixes except for the Turkey litter, I use chicken lol. Heck, I just mixed up a batch of soil in my current journal with almost every one of those. I also use those exact microbes supplied as well, they’re usually in my all purpose and Great White.

This is what made me think that I must be holding on to some weird capitalist mindset of superiority because I “put in the work” is the only major difference I can see.

If we start adding in ideologies about responsibilities, sustainability, and closed loop systems then we could make some “organic” arguments of superiority. However when it comes down to what makes a grow more or less “organic”, Geoflora definitely stands firmly in the more organic category.