Sweetsue's Tiny Closet - Second Grow - Sweet Dark Devil & Bomb Berry Bomb - CFL - LED

[Radogast]

Re: Sweetsue's Tiny Closet - Second Grow - Sweet Dark Devil & Bomb Berry Bomb - CFL -

Time to build some soil. First up tonight - Doc Bud's HB Kit. I need to run to the store across the street for another tote. Pictures and narrative later.

Soooooo excited to get started!

This is going to be fun to watch.

Will your SWICK Los be under the same light as SWICK High Brix ?

 

[420Pursuit]

Re: Sweetsue's Tiny Closet - Second Grow - Sweet Dark Devil & Bomb Berry Bomb - CFL -

Time to build some soil. First up tonight - Doc Bud's HB Kit. I need to run to the store across the street for another tote. Pictures and narrative later.

Soooooo excited to get started!

Your thoughts on this?

3.8cf pro-mix
1cf worm castings
.5cf perlite
6c epsom salt
3c alfalfa meal
3c kelp meal
3c crab meal
2c 50/50 neem, karanja cake
1c soft rock phosphate
1c oyster shell
1c gypsum
3/4c sulpomag
1c azomite


I am giving it a try.

 

[SweetSue]

Re: Sweetsue's Tiny Closet - Second Grow - Sweet Dark Devil & Bomb Berry Bomb - CFL -

Your thoughts on this?

3.8cf pro-mix
1cf worm castings
.5cf perlite
6c epsom salt
3c alfalfa meal
3c kelp meal
3c crab meal
2c 50/50 neem, karanja cake
1c soft rock phosphate
1c oyster shell
1c gypsum
3/4c sulpomag
1c azomite


I am giving it a try.

I don't have time to scrutinize the list right now, but why not consider the basic mix 1/3 sphagnum peat moss (Promix is more expensive than you need), 1/3 vermicompost, 1/3 aeration? Add the rest to it, water in and cook for a month. That base ratio is an important component to the success of the mix. I'm using Promix here because I'm playing with Doc Bud's HB kit. Otherwise I'd be using my regular sphagnum.

Back to mixing my HB soil. I'll check back later 420 Pursuit.

 

[SweetSue]

Re: Sweetsue's Tiny Closet - Second Grow - Sweet Dark Devil & Bomb Berry Bomb - CFL -

It is INSANE how much I love mixing soil!

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: Sweetsue's Tiny Closet - Second Grow - Sweet Dark Devil & Bomb Berry Bomb - CFL -

Your thoughts on this?

3.8cf pro-mix
1cf worm castings
.5cf perlite
6c epsom salt
3c alfalfa meal
3c kelp meal
3c crab meal
2c 50/50 neem, karanja cake
1c soft rock phosphate
1c oyster shell
1c gypsum
3/4c sulpomag
1c azomite


I am giving it a try.

I don't want to rain on your parade, but I'll wager you a free kit that the mix you have listed above will result in crispy, yellow plants.

The total volume of my amendment package for the same bale of soil is 1 cup! You've got six times that in epsom salts alone!

Yikes! Where did you get that recipe?

 

[SweetSue]

Re: Sweetsue's Tiny Closet - Second Grow - Sweet Dark Devil & Bomb Berry Bomb - CFL -

SOIL MIXING:Doc Bud's High Brix Kit

I came home today to find two packages, one containing 15# of worm castings and the other a 60# bale of Promix HP. We live on the third floor, 40 steps up. Thankfully I am a 61 year old woman smart enough to be a practitioner of Callanetics, so my core is strong baby! I rolled that bale up to the third floor, end over end, stuck it onto my mini dolly and rolled it into the living room. Then I dashed across the street to buy a large tote to mix this batch of soil in. I have one large tote, but I'm mixing LOS tomorrow. WooHoo!!! Soil mixing two days in a row!!

Let's get started.

I studied Doc's instructions on his lab thread and did my best to stick to them. Here's the link.

In The Lab

Doc was very patient with my exuberance and answered posted questions quickly. I'd warned him ahead of time and I appreciate the tolerance of my bubbly excitement.

I mixed up half a batch. I'll be starting with one 7 gallon pot, but we all know I'm going to want to expand, and the soil stores well with proper care, so half a batch it is!

Watch how easy this was to do.

I'm going to need a supply of water. It's rained every day this month and the tub I use for collecting water is full, so we'll use that.

During the winter I thought it had split from the pressures of ice formation, but I was wrong.

Next I need to measure out half of the amendments. I weighed out the entire bag.

Then I split that in half. The rest goes into storage for the next batch.

Now, I only need 1/2 of the bale of Promix. I measured the height, marked it at halfway and set to work dumping it into the tote.

The rest of the bale will be sealed with tape and stored on the balcony with the other bale of peat moss.

Dump the amendments into the Promix HP.

Add the EWC.

Begin mixing. This is one of my favorite steps. In my opinion, soil mixing is best done by hand.

All the way up to the elbows.

You need to get right down to the bottom and dredge it up over and over and over again. This stage is where I make sure everything is broken up and evenly distributed. I keep going until I no longer come up with patches of earth worm castings. Then I continue dredging and tumbling for a while longer, until I'm satisfied that the energy I'm feeling is one of balance. It's a Mother Earth thing I think.

Now that it's all mixed evenly .....

..... it's time to add some water. According to the directions, for a half batch I would need 1 1/2 - 2 1/2 gallons of water. The Chapin sprayer holds 2. I went with that. I took my time and sprayed it on, letting it soak in.

I let it sit for as long as it took to load in all of the pictures up to this point. Then I went back and mixed it again.

I'll let you in on a secret. This is my favorite part. Only the top layer of the mix has any water in it. You have to begin churning this all together to break up the moist level and blend it into the dry areas. See the difference in this picture?

You want those dry areas to be nonexistent by the time you're done. I choose these large totes because they're large enough to hold the volume I'm mixing and shallow enough that I can plunge my arms into the soil right up to my elbows. Have I mentioned how much I LOVE mixing soil?

My technique is to sit on a stool at one end of the tote, plunge my hands in to either side right down to the bottom outside, then scoop under to the middle and dredge the bottom layer up through the center, gently bouncing as I go. When I was satisfied that end of the tote to the center was mixed completely (no dry peat moss at all) I turned it around to the other end and repeated that process. I was up past my elbows. Almost had to shower when I was done.

It was a glorious time. Mixing soil is a spiritual experience for me. As I'm mixing the components into a homogenous matrix I'm imbuing it with love and positive energy and thinking of the healthy and vigorous plants that will eventually dazzle us in this new batch of living soil.

After a time it's obvious that it's well mixed and it's time to stop. I usually linger a while longer. My skin likes the feel of healthy dirt.

The top goes on and the soil cooks for the next month.

How easy was that? One down, one to go.


Tomorrow night - Living Organic Soil. A different approach to soil building entirely.

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: Sweetsue's Tiny Closet - Second Grow - Sweet Dark Devil & Bomb Berry Bomb - CFL -

SOIL MIXING:Doc Bud's High Brix Kit

I came home today to find two packages, one containing 15# of worm castings and the other a 60# bale of Promix HP. We live on the third floor, 40 steps up. Thankfully I am a 61 year old woman smart enough to be a practitioner of Callanetics, so my core is strong baby! I rolled that bale up to the third floor, end over end, stuck it onto my mini dolly and rolled it into the living room. Then I dashed across the street to buy a large tote to mix this batch of soil in. I have one large tote, but I'm mixing LOS tomorrow. WooHoo!!! Soil mixing two days in a row!!

Let's get started.

I studied Doc's instructions on his lab thread and did my best to stick to them.

In The Lab

Doc was very patient with my exuberance and answered posted questions quickly. I'd warned him ahead of time and I appreciate the tolerance of my bubbly excitement.

I mixed up half a batch. I'll be starting with one 7 gallon pot, but we all know I'm going to want to expand, and the soil stores well with proper care, so half a batch it is!

Watch how easy this was to do.

I'm going to need a supply of water. It's rained every day this month and the tub I use for collecting water is full, so we'll use that.

During the winter I thought it had split from the pressures of ice formation, but I was wrong.

Next I need to measure out half of the amendments. I weighed out the entire bag.

Then I split that in half. The rest goes into storage for the next batch.

Now, I only need 1/2 of the bale of Promix. I measured the height, marked it at halfway and set to work dumping it into the tote.

The rest of the bale will be sealed with tape and stored on the balcony with the other bale of peat moss.

Dump the amendments into the Promix HP.

Add the EWC.

Begin mixing. This is one of my favorite steps. In my opinion, soil mixing is best done by hand.

All the way up to the elbows.

You need to get right down to the bottom and dredge it up over and over and over again. This stage is where I make sure everything is broken up and evenly distributed. I keep going until I no longer come up with patches of earth worm castings. Then I continue dredging and tumbling for a while longer, until I'm satisfied that the energy I'm feeling is one of balance. It's a Mother Earth thing I think.

Now that it's all mixed evenly .....

..... it's time to add some water. According to the directions, for a half batch I would need 1 1/2 - 2 1/2 gallons of water. The Chapin sprayer holds 2. I went with that. I took my time and sprayed it on, letting it soak in.

I let it sit for as long as it took to load in all of the pictures up to this point. Then I went back and mixed it again.

I'll let you in on a secret. This is my favorite part. Only the top layer of the mix has any water in it. You have to begin churning this all together to break up the moist level and blend it into the dry areas. See the difference in this picture?

You want those dry areas to be nonexistent by the time you're done. I choose these large totes because they're large enough to hold the volume I'm mixing and shallow enough that I can plunge my arms into the soil right up to my elbows. Have I mentioned how much I LOVE mixing soil?

My technique is to sit on a stool at one end of the tote, plunge my hands in to either side right down to the bottom outside, then scoop under to the middle and dredging the bottom layer up through the center, gently bouncing as I went. When I was satisfied that that end if the tote to the center was mixed completely (no dry peat moss at all) I turned it around to the other end and repeated that process. I was up past my elbows. Almost had to shower when I was done.

It was a glorious time. Mixing soil is a spiritual experience for me. As I'm mixing the components into a homogenous matrix I'm imbuing it with love and positive energy and thinking of the healthy and vigorous plants that will eventually dazzle us in this new batch of living soil.

After a time it's obvious that it's well mixed and it's time to stop. I usually linger a while longer. My skin likes the feel of healthy dirt.

The top goes on and the soil cooks for the next month.

How easy was that? One down, one to go.


Tomorrow night - Living Organic Soil. A different approach to soil building entirely.

what a great tutorial!

I humbly ask that you would copy and paste that into my "In the Lab" thread. It's a great tutorial!

As for LOS and HB being "different" approaches, I'd say they differ only in means, not in principle. You'll take the High Brix like a duck in a different pond. You'll feel the energy and vibration of the plants....like another note on the scale. In tune, strong....just a different vibration.

 

[SweetSue]

Re: Sweetsue's Tiny Closet - Second Grow - Sweet Dark Devil & Bomb Berry Bomb - CFL -

420Pursuit, I'm going to reprint the CLackamas Coot's soil recipe. I want you to compare what he lists with what you have on your list. In my opinion this recipe is a gold standard. Although there's room for variation, I would recommend you stick pretty closely to the ratios he suggests.

Here is the Mix as written by ClackamasCoots:

Equal parts of Sphagnum peat moss, some aeration deal (pumice, rice hulls, lava rock - whatever is sitting in the garage) and finally some mix of humus - my compost, worm castings some black leaf mold I bought from the local 'worm guy'
To each 1 c.f. of this mix I add the following:
1/2 cup organic Neem meal
1/2 cup organic Kelp meal
1/2 cup Crab meal (or Crustacean meal when available - it has Shrimp meal with the Crab meal. It's a local product from the fisheries on the Oregon & Washington Coasts)
4 cups of some minerals - rock dust

After the plant is in the final container I top-dress with my worm castings at 2" or so and then I hit it with Aloe vera juice and Comfrey extract. Or Borage. Or Stinging Nettle. Or Horsetail ferns. Whatever is ready.

That's it.

From Jeremy at BAS:

"You'll notice there isn't any High P ingredient like Soft Rock Phosphate or Fish Bone Meal and after speaking with Coot about this I realized a few things. This Kit has many ingredients that contain Phosphorous at normal levels which will not be harmful to Mycorrhizal fungi. High P amendments can have a negative effect on the soil Mycorrhizal life, for this reason Coot recommends using this recipe."

Listen to Doc. And lose the Epsom salts. No need at all for it in a well-constructed LOS. That recipe posted above? I followed it to the tee. Go back and review my first journal. All I did, for the most part, was water and love. Seriously. No worry about deficiencies or burning. Water and love. Ask yourself if those are the kinds of healthy and frosty plants you want to grow. Then revisit your list and come closer to his recommendations. You will not regret it one minute. If you want to craft your own recipe there are any number of experienced organic growers on this forum who know way more about it than I. The thread on organic gardening linked in my signature is dedicated to this very task.

I'm so touched that you would ask my opinion. I'm new enough to the field to defer to the true experts.

 

[SweetSue]

Re: Sweetsue's Tiny Closet - Second Grow - Sweet Dark Devil & Bomb Berry Bomb - CFL -

This is going to be fun to watch.

Will your SWICK Los be under the same light as SWICK High Brix ?

Yes it will Rad. Both pots on SWICKS under the same light with CFLs for side lighting. This is going to be fun. HB, LOS, 11/13 lights, tiers, going perpetual - it's transition time.

 

[SweetSue]

Re: Sweetsue's Tiny Closet - Second Grow - Sweet Dark Devil & Bomb Berry Bomb - CFL -

what a great tutorial!

I humbly ask that you would copy and paste that into my "In the Lab" thread. It's a great tutorial!

As for LOS and HB being "different" approaches, I'd say they differ only in means, not in principle. You'll take the High Brix like a duck in a different pond. You'll feel the energy and vibration of the plants....like another note on the scale. In tune, strong....just a different vibration.

That's a very eloquent way to express it Doc. The difference I was referring to is the ease of mixing your kit, with essentially only four ingredients - Promix HP, Amendments, EWC and water - and the intricate balance one has to create with the addition of organic matter for LOS. This was so easy to mix up. My LOS has a bit more variety and diversity.

I had sooo much fun with this. Of course I'll drop it off in your lab. I'd be honored.

 

[420Brother]

Re: Sweetsue's Tiny Closet - Second Grow - Sweet Dark Devil & Bomb Berry Bomb - CFL -

how long do you really have to let the soil cook after you're done with all that?

 

[36Gr0w]

Re: Sweetsue's Tiny Closet - Second Grow - Sweet Dark Devil & Bomb Berry Bomb - CFL -

I'm also curious about the cook time. Why 30 days? I'll ask in q&a too.

 

[littlemiss]

Re: Sweetsue's Tiny Closet - Second Grow - Sweet Dark Devil & Bomb Berry Bomb - CFL -

Glad that your dark devil is coming along now, even though I wouldn't worry too much mine stuck a seedling for about three months as the coldness stunted in in cold weather due to me not using a light that was giving out any heat as I was using led at the time, & in the end I still wasn't disappointed as you saw. All the weeds in your pot is there a reason? As my thinking is them being in your pot they will eat the nutrients of the soil and everything? But all looking really good anyways

 

[OMeWanCannabi]

Re: Sweetsue's Tiny Closet - Second Grow - Sweet Dark Devil & Bomb Berry Bomb - CFL -

Feels nice having ones arms groping deep into the soil-bin doesn't it?

I used to do just that but found it difficult to get the components properly intermixed and dispersed.
I found an old cement mixer on ebay for nothing flat, cleaned that out and have been using it to mix batches of soil the last 6 years now (wow time flies). Much easier and much more homogenous soil.
Just a tip for anyone who, like me, mixes a lot of soil (not only for growing C)

 

[SweetSue]

Re: Sweetsue's Tiny Closet - Second Grow - Sweet Dark Devil & Bomb Berry Bomb - CFL -

how long do you really have to let the soil cook after you're done with all that?

The soil cooks for a minimum of 30 days. By way of explanation, let me share a a favorite conversation that I found on another site that demonstrates the common misperception of the practice and offers the best explanation I've come across yet.

Montanaorganics begins with the most common explanation offered to the question of why we "cook" our living soil. It sounds reasonable, no? Read on for enlightenment by his fellow LOS growing companions. Enjoy.

Originally Posted by montanaorganics
"I think most organic growers let their soils cook so that the microherds may further break down the nutrients added into less complex nutrient forms. This brings the ammendments to a more simple state that is more readily taken up then by the microherd and then the plant. In organics it is preferred to avoid sterilization and overcome pathogens with beneficials.
No I do not think you need to cook with just EWC. When you start adding guanos, powders, and plant materials it is of more benefit."


Response by Mad Libeittist
"well I gotta say i disagree.

Maturing your soil takes the nutrients and puts them into living creatures, actually more or less as complex as the source. Or in the case of chlorophyll N becoming the N of a protein - you made it more complex.

So the purpose of maturing your soil is about charging the batteries, not draining them!

With just EWC, you should still mature the mix for sure! And maybe feed the life in the castings. They will need time to colonize the sunshine mix.

Under a microscope, finished castings are not very interesting. Add some food source and bubble though, and it breaks out. See, everything takes time."


Originally posted by CT Guy
"When you add organic fertilizers or foods like alfalfa meal, bone meal, blood meal, etc... you're putting in microbial foods. The microbes are going to become more active and begin reproducing at greater rates. As this occurs, the nutrients are going to be cycled into plant available forms and also be locked up in the bodies of the microbes. The reason you need to wait a little while after adding these ingredients is because the microbes can multiply so rapidly that they will heat the soil (similar to thermal composting) or lock out the plant (think of adding unfinished thermal compost to your soil if it's still hot) as the biology stops eating the exudates from the plant and just consumes the other foods in your soil mix."



I need to get serious here and acquire a copy of "Teaming With Microbes" and devour it cover to cover!

 

[SweetSue]

Re: Sweetsue's Tiny Closet - Second Grow - Sweet Dark Devil & Bomb Berry Bomb - CFL -

Glad that your dark devil is coming along now, even though I wouldn't worry too much mine stuck a seedling for about three months as the coldness stunted in in cold weather due to me not using a light that was giving out any heat as I was using led at the time, & in the end I still wasn't disappointed as you saw. All the weeds in your pot is there a reason? As my thinking is them being in your pot they will eat the nutrients of the soil and everything? But all looking really good anyways

Thanks for the encouragement littlemiss. I'm thinking positive thoughts of her as a huge bush filled with frosty blooms. I think she's finally beginning to believe she can do it.

The mulch, living and decomposing, makes many conventional gardeners a bit nervous. LOS gardeners understand (as best we can) the complexities of the soil food web. To begin, the decomposing mulch will reinvigorate the soil matrix with the components locked into the plant material as it is broken down by the biota. We're running no-till here and that means the soil must be amended through scheduled drenches, teas and the breakdown of this decaying material. Some of that mulch material is carefully chosen for the nutrient value it offers.

The living mulch is another matter. You always want some living plant material in the pot. The myco require living roots to survive. We harvest the cannabis and suddenly their roots die back and the fungi can no longer feed on them. Keeping a crop of living mulch or a companion plant (check out BAR's 2 ltr planter that holds a Lamb's Quarter plant along with the cannabis) means the community keeps clicking along, growing ever more connected while awaiting the next plant to serve.

Living mulch is also chosen for other reasons. Clover fixes nitrogen in the soil, making it more easily available. Mustard is a deep rooter, suggesting an ability to mine minerals and nutrients from the lower depths. When the leaves are trimmed and dropped, in time these nutrients become more easily available. Then there's the reality that plants do better in a common pot. They apparently speak to each other and the intertwined root systems will share nutrients between themselves to satisfy needs of each plant.

Rather than stealing nutrients from each other it appears that plants form a cooperative bond, working together for the common good. There is so much wonder in the soil food web.

 

[SweetSue]

Re: Sweetsue's Tiny Closet - Second Grow - Sweet Dark Devil & Bomb Berry Bomb - CFL -

I know it's not going to win NOTM, but the Bomb's buds will always be my favorites.

Thank you one and all for this honor.

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: Sweetsue's Tiny Closet - Second Grow - Sweet Dark Devil & Bomb Berry Bomb - CFL -

I'm also curious about the cook time. Why 30 days? I'll ask in q&a too.

All living things run on 28 day cycles, including the reproduction of microbes, plants and animals! That and it takes about 30 days for a VERY important reaction to take place, namely the literal creation of a battery in the soil via the combination/reaction of phosphorus and calcium in the rock powders.

The mix is actually toxic to plants in the first 2 weeks as this reaction is taking place. Then, when everything has settled down we have a special soil.

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: Sweetsue's Tiny Closet - Second Grow - Sweet Dark Devil & Bomb Berry Bomb - CFL -

The soil cooks for a minimum of 30 days. By way of explanation, let me share a a favorite conversation that I found on another site that demonstrates the common misperception of the practice and offers the best explanation I've come across yet.

Montanaorganics begins with the most common explanation offered to the question of why we "cook" our living soil. It sounds reasonable, no? Read on for enlightenment by his fellow LOS growing companions. Enjoy.

Originally Posted by montanaorganics
"I think most organic growers let their soils cook so that the microherds may further break down the nutrients added into less complex nutrient forms. This brings the ammendments to a more simple state that is more readily taken up then by the microherd and then the plant. In organics it is preferred to avoid sterilization and overcome pathogens with beneficials.
No I do not think you need to cook with just EWC. When you start adding guanos, powders, and plant materials it is of more benefit."


Response by Mad Libeittist
"well I gotta say i disagree.

Maturing your soil takes the nutrients and puts them into living creatures, actually more or less as complex as the source. Or in the case of chlorophyll N becoming the N of a protein - you made it more complex.

So the purpose of maturing your soil is about charging the batteries, not draining them!

With just EWC, you should still mature the mix for sure! And maybe feed the life in the castings. They will need time to colonize the sunshine mix.

Under a microscope, finished castings are not very interesting. Add some food source and bubble though, and it breaks out. See, everything takes time."


Originally posted by CT Guy
"When you add organic fertilizers or foods like alfalfa meal, bone meal, blood meal, etc... you're putting in microbial foods. The microbes are going to become more active and begin reproducing at greater rates. As this occurs, the nutrients are going to be cycled into plant available forms and also be locked up in the bodies of the microbes. The reason you need to wait a little while after adding these ingredients is because the microbes can multiply so rapidly that they will heat the soil (similar to thermal composting) or lock out the plant (think of adding unfinished thermal compost to your soil if it's still hot) as the biology stops eating the exudates from the plant and just consumes the other foods in your soil mix."



I need to get serious here and acquire a copy of "Teaming With Microbes" and devour it cover to cover!

MInerals and microbes.....not just one or the other. Minerals, microbes....then magic. That's what's on my T-shirts.

 

[SweetSue]

Re: Sweetsue's Tiny Closet - Second Grow - Sweet Dark Devil & Bomb Berry Bomb - CFL -

Daily Update: Dark Devil Auto -Day 18

Steady plugging away.

I took the time to give her the 1/4 turn and filled the reservoirs ( one quart for each - so consistent ). I neglected to do an enzyme tea last night, with the excitement and afterglow of HB soil mixing, so I'll do my best to set that up tonight BEFORE I begin building my new batch of LOS.

One of the things I ordered this month will assist in pest control.

I can't believe I put this off for so long. (Hangs her head in shame.) I had to smile when I realized I had the perfect way to hang them. Years ago. I grabbed a bunch of garden decoratives at 90% off - I think I paid 35 cents apiece? - that I've squirreled away in the umbrella box. They turned out to be just what was needed.

These things are sticky as hell! As soon as I stuck them in place - WHAM! CONTACT!!!

I had a brownie for breakfast, followed by a few hits from that bud in my last post. The brownies are made with Buddha Magnum, the tokes were THC Bomb. It makes for an interesting high. I think I am oozing love right now. There must be a warm aura surrounding me. I just about floated to the bus stop on a cloud of joy.

I'm so ready to grow more. This next month waiting for soil to cook will be crazy!!!!!

My day is already oozing joy. See if you can match my output. Have a marvelous day.