The Munki's Playground

[Munki]

Looks great munki!

I would recommend T5 fluoros for veg about 4-6 inches from the plant tops... less heat and energy per space used (obviously not compared to LED on energy) but I have always vegged at a 24/0 and man do you get more nodes. I have the two separate experiments... 1st went for 18/6 (T5) then to 16/8 then 12/12 (T5 and supplements) obviously doing its part... but I found that the 2nd 24/0 (T5) to 12/12 (HPS) for flowering provided more nodes in a shorter time than the 1st attempt at 18/6. The energy usage for 4 40w fluoros on 24/7 didn't even make a dent on the energy bill. Not that the LED's would but studies show that Fluoro produces more usable light for cannabis than LED's, so my final recommendation is multiple (2 per 3 plants) T5's 24/7 for veg and 250W - 400W HPS for flowering...

"That's just my opinion, I could be wrong." -Dennis Miller

Thanks for sharing your personal experiences, herbsnbuds. The 18/6 vs. 24/0 veg cycle debate is very much still up in the air without much consensus.

Now regarding the lighting technology debate, do you have some reference links that point to the studies of florescents versus LED technology? LED development is ongoing and improving all the time.

From the Wikipedia entry for Light-Emitting Diode, here is a chart that shows the luminous intensity of the average LED produced compared to year. The scale if intensity is logarithmic in order to show how much better they have become.

Quoting from the Wiki entry concerning "Continuing Development",

"The development of LED technology has caused their efficiency and light output to increase exponentially, with a doubling occurring about every 36 months since the 1960s, in a way similar to Moore's law. The advances are generally attributed to the parallel development of other semiconductor technologies and advances in optics and material science. This trend is normally called Haitz's Law after Dr. Roland Haitz.

In February 2008, Bilkent university in Turkey reported 300 lumens of visible light per watt luminous efficacy (not per electrical watt) and warm light by using nanocrystals.

In January 2009, researchers from Cambridge University reported a process for growing gallium nitride (GaN) LEDs on silicon. Production costs could be reduced by 90% using six-inch silicon wafers instead of two-inch sapphire wafers. The team was led by Colin Humphreys."

So LEDs are getting much brighter and could be getting much cheaper in the near future.

 

[man0os]

Great info on LED history!
Plants look good, I can't wait to see all those meters working their magic...

 

[Munki]

Great info on LED history!
Plants look good, I can't wait to see all those meters working their magic...

Yep LED tech is moving forward at a fast clip. Very exciting industry and the world sure needs the benefits it offers.

Oh, I can't wait until I can get my hands on some meters. I LOVE EXPERIMENTING! Hopefully I'll have my hands on some in a few weeks. Stay tuned!

 

[herbsnbuds]

Thanks for sharing your personal experiences, herbsnbuds. The 18/6 vs. 24/0 veg cycle debate is very much still up in the air without much consensus.

Now regarding the lighting technology debate, do you have some reference links that point to the studies of florescents versus LED technology? LED development is ongoing and improving all the time.

From the Wikipedia entry for Light-Emitting Diode, here is a chart that shows the luminous intensity of the average LED produced compared to year. The scale if intensity is logarithmic in order to show how much better they have become.

Quoting from the Wiki entry concerning "Continuing Development",

"The development of LED technology has caused their efficiency and light output to increase exponentially, with a doubling occurring about every 36 months since the 1960s, in a way similar to Moore's law. The advances are generally attributed to the parallel development of other semiconductor technologies and advances in optics and material science. This trend is normally called Haitz's Law after Dr. Roland Haitz.

In February 2008, Bilkent university in Turkey reported 300 lumens of visible light per watt luminous efficacy (not per electrical watt) and warm light by using nanocrystals.

In January 2009, researchers from Cambridge University reported a process for growing gallium nitride (GaN) LEDs on silicon. Production costs could be reduced by 90% using six-inch silicon wafers instead of two-inch sapphire wafers. The team was led by Colin Humphreys."

So LEDs are getting much brighter and could be getting much cheaper in the near future.

To start, I'd like to say that the setup is awesome none the less and great comparison.

My concern is that we are living in the "now", not the future. So if LED technology improves to emit the same blue and red spectrum usable for plants as it does now, AND emits 50,000+ lumens for less then the cost of a MH or HPS... I'll grab it in a heartbeat. Just does not currently exist.

To each his own and happy growing

 

[Munki]

To start, I'd like to say that the setup is awesome none the less and great comparison.

My concern is that we are living in the "now", not the future. So if LED technology improves to emit the same blue and red spectrum usable for plants as it does now, AND emits 50,000+ lumens for less then the cost of a MH or HPS... I'll grab it in a heartbeat. Just does not currently exist.

To each his own and happy growing

Right on herbsnbuds. I have HPS technology as well; just looking my part to demonstrate what's on the market today. Pull up a chair, grab some , and enjoy the ride!

Oh, and to 420 Magazine!

 

[herbsnbuds]

&

 

[Munki]

Day 16 and 26. The bagseed plants look more wilted today. It shows mostly in the lower, mature leaves, while the tops continue to grow up. Top leaves are lighter green, but not looking too off. As a precaution, I raised the LED panel up 3 inches to a height of about 17 inches over plant tops. I suspect that the leaves that developed under the florescents had a rude awakening when put under the more intense, and different spectra of the LED panel. New leaves should do well if my theory is correct. Poor things, they got transplanted only two days ago, and were moved to a totally different light tech and intensity. For all that, they are hanging in there pretty well.

The Satori are doing well. I will transplant them probably on Friday. I think I can transplant sooner than I did with the bagseeds.

Onward to the pics!

Satori 1

Satori 3

The leaves look wilted but they are rigid like healthy leaves. Seems like the plant wants to angle them to moderate their exposure.

Blueberry Kush

Master Kush

Ogre

 

[Doc Bud]

Hey Munki,

those leaves are drooping because the roots haven't hit the reservoir yet. Water 2-3 times a day around the base of the plant for a few days until the roots hit the bottom, then they'll be very perky.

Typical hempy behavior.

 

[Munki]

Hey Munki,

those leaves are drooping because the roots haven't hit the reservoir yet. Water 2-3 times a day around the base of the plant for a few days until the roots hit the bottom, then they'll be very perky.

Typical hempy behavior.

Thanks for the tip. I watered/fed again today. This time, I put each bucket on a table with another empty bucket on the ground, then quickly poured about 1/3 of a gallon of nute water. I then just used the runoff in my outdoor plants.

 

[Doc Bud]

Thanks for the tip. I watered/fed again today. This time, I put each bucket on a table with another empty bucket on the ground, then quickly poured about 1/3 of a gallon of nute water. I then just used the runoff in my outdoor plants.

that's pretty much optimal....keep the top mostly dry and fill the bucket up enough that it takes a while to drain.

I'm gonna make a prediction: Your hempy grow is going to set the bar. All us other hempy growers are gonna try to emulate it. You've got a green thumb, bro.

 

[Munki]

that's pretty much optimal....keep the top mostly dry and fill the bucket up enough that it takes a while to drain.

I'm gonna make a prediction: Your hempy grow is going to set the bar. All us other hempy growers are gonna try to emulate it. You've got a green thumb, bro.

Aww, shucks, Doc! Well I hope it works out well so I appreciate the support. My hempy is different than the OC+ grows as I am using liquid GH products. Hmmm, is a future grow comparison forming between a GH Flora and Osmocote Plus? That would be interesting...

 

[Doc Bud]

Aww, shucks, Doc! Well I hope it works out well so I appreciate the support. My hempy is different than the OC+ grows as I am using liquid GH products. Hmmm, is a future grow comparison forming between a GH Flora and Osmocote Plus? That would be interesting...

I think the grower's skill is more important than the choice of products. The whole idea of OC+ is that it's stoner proof. Of course, it's also immune to experts.....it's all automatic. Of course, it's also very high quality.

I found the OC+ to be superior in every way to Advanced Nutrients.....I'm pretty sure it would be better than GH Flora as well.....but that's with me at the helm. My passion is lies in making things easier and consistent. Someone else, who really likes mixing nutes might have be able to post better results.

I suspect the ultimate combo is OC+ as a base nute, with an arsenal of elegant tweaks and additions that are strain specific, etc. That's gonna take some time.

 

[Munki]

Day 17 and 27. Satori still growing at a fast clip. Bagseeds doing OK but the water level was very near the hole top on the buckets so I didn't feed today. I'll let the roots grow seek the moisture.

Satori 1

Satori 3

Blueberry Wowie

Master Kush

Ogre

 

[Munki]

Day 18 for the Satori and the Bagseeds are 4 weeks old. Ogre is starting to take off while the Blueberry Wowie is lagging a bit and looking kind of spindly. Also, the Master Kush has practically no smell.

Satori were also transferred to the 2 gallon hempy buckets and put under the LED. All plants got fed and watered.

Satori 1

Satori 3

Satori transferred to 2 gallon buckets

The bagseeds trio...

Blueberry Wowie

Master Kush

Ogre

You've got NEIGHBORS!

 

[Keith Lake]

 

[Munki]

Glad to see you aboard Soniq! The daily pics really do help to show how fast they grow.

 

[Munki]

Day 19 and 29. Watered and fed all pots today.

Satori 1

Satori 3

Blueberry Wowie

Master Kush

Ogre

 

[Doc Bud]

Lookin' good!

 

[Setting Sun]

Just read through!

I like your playground, it reminds me of mine, lol.

Couple of thoughts.

I used white 20oz tumblers to germinate and veg my two VK hybrids for 2-3 weeks before transplanting.

Their growth was sort of slowish and I couldn't figure out why until I transplanted and saw their miserable root balls. There were big clumps of green algae all over the roots.

The algae didn't kill them, but it competed with the roots for water/nutes. Once I got them out of those white cups, they recovered fully and prospered. Needless to say, I won't be using white translucent containers any longer. The white pots that Doc used for his grow are thick white plastic, made for growing, and I don't think they're nearly as translucent as white cups. Not sure about the translucency of your white buckets, but they probably do allow some light through.

Can't wait to see how your painted buckets do compared to the white ones. If you do notice slower growth in the white ones, that may be the reason. If you didn't want to complete the experiment at that point, you could use tape or something else to cover the buckets for the remainder of the grow.

My other thought has to do with how long we keep the seedlings in the cups before transplanting. I'm very interested in that because down the line I want to do a 12/12 grow with reg seed, and would love to be able to keep the plants in the cups until they show sex, but there's a concern.

I believe that plants send out roots not just to feed, but also to explore the size of the environment they will live their lives out in.

They don't know they have a nice caretaker who is going give them a bigger home when they outgrow the one they're in.

So, the seedling sends out roots to feed and explore, and if the roots are allowed to fill up the small cup, the plant establishes it's grow pattern for the size of a 16oz container, which isn't going to sustain a large plant.

Then, we remove the plant from the environment it thinks is going to be it's final home and place it in a larger environment.

The plant then needs to "reset" it's grow pattern to the larger container. This "reset" is not something that occurs naturally, and I believe it stresses and slows the plant down and prevents them from reaching their max potential.

This phenomena is marked in the auto strains, where if the central tap root butts up against something when the plant is a seedling, it will not grow to max size or yield.

Breeders of autos recommend germinating directly in the final container of at least 2-gallon size for this very reason. Most people don't and then complain of miserable yields with autos.

But all plants, not just autos, establish their grow patterns to whatever container they're in, so it's an issue for every strain, and I'm not sure I can keep plants in 16oz cups long enough to show sex at 12/12, which would be around 3 weeks, without stunting them to some degree.

More fodder for experiments .

I share your passion for experimenting and really enjoyed reading through.

Great thread!

 

[Doc Bud]

Hey SS.....I kept my plants in the solo cups till they were sexed. No problem.

They weren't root bound and they took off after being transplanted. I think in a hempy it's the smart way to go, as the plant also stresses while it seeks the bottom of the container.

Unless using femmed seeds, I can't justify mixing up a whole pot of soil, only to pull the plant when it shows its maleness.