Third Times A Charm They Say

[Heirloom]

Loving your milk crate! Keep pushing the boundaries of convention wisdom and product limitations.

 

[OG1969]

Thanks Fluffy!

I was adjusting the angle on the hps, as the bracket was not tightened enough and it was slipping. Ironically, I was trying to keep it from melting the plexiglass and wound up melting the refectix I had above it as a "reflector". I now have some flashing sitting above the bulb on the ceiling in order to protect the ceiling from burning and have raised the front half of the ceiling @ 2", so there is more space between the bulb and the top (also more places for the heat to escape. )

I'm pretty sure LK is rootbound, or at the very least, not taking to the new soil after the transplant. It seems like lockout and not, not enough of this or that. The roots were looking a bit too beige for my liking. I'm hoping the same isn't happening w/QD. I did a foliar spray with some colloidal minerals before bed last night and LK looked a little bit perked up this morning.

After work I'm gonna run to the hydro store and see if they have any A.O.G HELP in stock and grab some FFOC and re-transplant everyone. Probably veg a while longer so everyone recovers nicely before I put them to fower. LK has shrunk a bit and I'm worried she might go the same route as Squiggy. Which I'm convinced now is a result of the soil they've been in. No more cutting corners on soil!

. I also snapped a mid fan leaf off of the Kush I was going to give my buddy! :/ He could grab it yesterday, which might be a good thing as I want it to be nice and healthy for him when he gets it.

Glad the girls are in their new homes, nice work on the diy air pots from milk crates has plenty of room for roots. as for Lock out, not sure, you have done everything , and if it were it would look like the plant just had a siezure and the leaves would be dry and browninsh. Mine had very little root growth and it was planted in FFOF , which has alot of peat moss in it and stays pretty moist. I remixed my soild with ffof, humbolts basement blend and roots organic, they drain great water about every third day for the ones inside.

Are you feeding them? I started mine on the cutting and seedling dose after a week, granted mine were clones. Dont see the difference. And now less than a month and they are getting the aggressive dose for the vegative state. Mine took a few days to a week to really start showing signs she was growing and now under the hps is about as big as her sister that is budding outside, all that in only two weeks so I say give it some time. Good light, good soil, air movement, and good feeding and they will shoot back in a week I say... there for someone who has been out of the growing loop for a few years, lol. and remember K.I.S.S. where did i see that before.

 

[OG1969]

THe pics I put up a few posts ago were in 5 gallon buckets , free from work. Try to do what I can to save a little money just like the diy air pots.

 

[Korloin]

Glad the girls are in their new homes, nice work on the diy air pots from milk crates has plenty of room for roots. as for Lock out, not sure, you have done everything , and if it were it would look like the plant just had a siezure and the leaves would be dry and browninsh. Mine had very little root growth and it was planted in FFOF , which has alot of peat moss in it and stays pretty moist. I remixed my soild with ffof, humbolts basement blend and roots organic, they drain great water about every third day for the ones inside.

Thanks OG!! I think the pots will work out nice actually! So, I went and bought 1.5cuft of FFOF and 1.5cuft of Sunshine mix along w/ some perlite and the HELP. Foliar fed the help and watered 1pt each at a ratio of 1tsp HELP per pt as the instructions stated @ 1hr before lights on. Haven't gone in to look just yet. Lights came on @ 2hrs ago.

Checked the soil ph with my new meter (thanks Smokem!) and ph reads 6.0 on Queen Driz, 6.3 on LK and 6.4 on the other Kush. Seems to be within range for uptake according to Jorge C. I worried my mix might have been too hot, so I mixed in 1cuft of sterile topsoil and some styrofoam I'd shredded (I was broke, It was there. ) for aeration. It's basically the same soil they've been in the whole time. Except I added a bit of liquid compost, happy frog, some sand and some horticultural lime about 3 weeks before I transplanted. It's been curing, but did a have a little sour undertone to it's aroma. That's what's troubling me most about the soil.

The HELP says to let the roots sit in the solution for 4-24hrs before transplanting, so I was about to go mix all the new medium up and transplant tomorrow. I guess if they perk up and start looking better I may hold off and ride this out a few days. LK's bottom leaves were all drying out and the mid fans were showing magnesium defs for sure. Mag is a mobile nutrient right? If so, then the upper leaves drew all the mag out of the lower and killed them, but it still wasn't enough is where my head is. Hence my thoughts on stagnant roots not taking in nutes. I'll sack up and go take some new pics. Maybe they'll help shed some light on the situation. QD was starting to curl the leaf tips on the young growth down too. I just don't want this whole thing to start going south like the last ones did. At least I know a bit more about why, just not enough about how to correct it yet.

Are you feeding them? I started mine on the cutting and seedling dose after a week, granted mine were clones. Dont see the difference. And now less than a month and they are getting the aggressive dose for the vegative state. Mine took a few days to a week to really start showing signs she was growing and now under the hps is about as big as her sister that is budding outside, all that in only two weeks so I say give it some time. Good light, good soil, air movement, and good feeding and they will shoot back in a week I say... there for someone who has been out of the growing loop for a few years, lol. and remember K.I.S.S. where did i see that before.

I started feeding them when I put them into the box still under CFL. 1/8cup of happy frog + 10ml of my liquid Kelp tincture (not a true tincture really. menstruem is springwater and glycerine, not alcohol) in 1gal of ph6.3 H2O from my upstairs tap (my water isn't softened). Shookup real nice to dissolve solids and aerate. Fed every 2-3 days @ >qt per plant and plain H2O every third feed.

 

[Smokemupm8]

Sounds like all is well apart from the slight accident!!
But it wouldnt be growing without doing SOME work - and some errors Well in my case its like that..
Yeah dunno what may be at fault with your sad plant, it did look under watered, but possibly could be other fault at hand..
Glad the PH meter came in helpful, theyre not 100% exact, but give close idea.. Mines usually indicating 6.2-6.6 at times but Cindy seems ok, so i dont have any lock out i hope, she s showing some leaf -drop, which is associated with being root bound usually, but the leaves that are being shed are all at her base area where minimal light is and the oldest leaves are - so im hopin its just natural causes!
Take it easy buddy, hope all goes well! Later mate, SMOKEMUP

 

[Korloin]

Sounds like all is well apart from the slight accident!!
But it wouldnt be growing without doing SOME work - and some errors Well in my case its like that..
Yeah dunno what may be at fault with your sad plant, it did look under watered, but possibly could be other fault at hand..
Glad the PH meter came in helpful, theyre not 100% exact, but give close idea.. Mines usually indicating 6.2-6.6 at times but Cindy seems ok, so i dont have any lock out i hope, she s showing some leaf -drop, which is associated with being root bound usually, but the leaves that are being shed are all at her base area where minimal light is and the oldest leaves are - so im hopin its just natural causes!
Take it easy buddy, hope all goes well! Later mate, SMOKEMUP

Thanks for the encouragement Smokem!

It's just the one Lady Kush who seems off. I think Quenn D has a bit of over N going on, but she's still going strong. The giveaway, which was lagging behind LK before this, is showing no signs of trauma, aside from the fan leaf I busted off yesterday.

I'll post some pics in a minute and you'll see what I'm talking about. Things have changed a bit in the negative since those last pics were posted.

Seems it takes no time for the plants to take a nose dive, but an unbearable eternity for them to show some recovery.
My tendency toward panic is hard to control at times like this.

 

[Korloin]

LK

QD

The Giveaway

The hole where once a proud leaf sprouted forth.......

 

[Smokemupm8]

Shit buddy.. I feel ya!!! Looks like 1 maybe a K (Phosphorous) Defic. the one with the dark edges and dark patches on leaves.. And maybe N overdose on the yellow and the saggy wilted one, maybe some severe nute probs here bro..
First off, ive read your journal mate, now if you look back to page 9 of your journal, your girls were fine..
Now i see you transplanted, this is where prob #1 may occur: Your reference to your soil being TOO HOT, maybe on the mark.. When Cindy was at a month and fairly large, she only got LIGHT nutrients as the soil has active organic nutes. An increase of any may cause lock out or excess build ups of any element, thus maybe why youre experiencing different symptoms?? So what does your soil consist of now?
#2 Since changing the lighting, what are you using wattage wise and is it a HPS?
#3 What lighting schedule are they on, i kno ya prob mentioned it soz i forgot!

Its sad to see how quick things can change hey!! Ive seen Cindy go from lookin great to lookin like shes about to die in mere hours! And its TWICE now ive had to save her, thankfully the guys here came to my rescue!!
So id suggest flushing ( AGAIN!! Youre prob sick of the word! ) and checking the soil mixture making sure its not full of nutrients, its better to have an organic based soil, that has a slight active nutrient base and then mix in any fillers you like, but i try keep it fairly airy, but a nice soil feel- not much pea-straw mulch and sand , mixed in i find this great. And the need for nutrients shouldnt really be put into action until theyve kind of established themselves, as Cindy at 5 weeks was pretty big and i only gave her a 1/4 strength dose of NItrosol ( 10%N,6%P,8%K) every 3rd water.. WAsnt until week 7 or so, when she'd doubled in size that i increased to half strength, and then slowly adjusted over time in relation to her size.. This is Cindy at about 4 weeks, and then 4 weeks later..

She blew up in 4 weeks to that. So your setup with CFL's and such you had, if they were only transplanted to larger pots, and given a light dose of nutes, over the next 2 weeks or so theyd have gotten larger in size.. But too much nutrients isnt good for them when young. JUST LIKE PYRETHRUM SPRAY - SO I FOUND OUT!!
So if maybe youd have added some cfl's it would have vegged well, until you decided to flip.. But im not trying to make you feel bad mate, just my thoughts, on seeing your poor ladies.. But they may all recover well, or you may lose 1 or 2.. FLushing and such is all i can recommend at this stage.. ANYONE WHO HAS ANY IDEAS FOR THIS GUY PLEASE HELP!!! WE CANT LOSE ANYMORE GIRLS!!!
Goodluck bro, hope you sort it.. later mate. Smokem..

 

[Korloin]

Shit buddy.. I feel ya!!! Looks like 1 maybe a K (Phosphorous) Defic. the one with the dark edges and dark patches on leaves.. And maybe N overdose on the yellow and the saggy wilted one, maybe some severe nute probs here bro..
First off, ive read your journal mate, now if you look back to page 9 of your journal, your girls were fine..
Now i see you transplanted, this is where prob #1 may occur: Your reference to your soil being TOO HOT, maybe on the mark.. When Cindy was at a month and fairly large, she only got LIGHT nutrients as the soil has active organic nutes. An increase of any may cause lock out or excess build ups of any element, thus maybe why youre experiencing different symptoms?? So what does your soil consist of now?
#2 Since changing the lighting, what are you using wattage wise and is it a HPS?
#3 What lighting schedule are they on, i kno ya prob mentioned it soz i forgot!

Its sad to see how quick things can change hey!! Ive seen Cindy go from lookin great to lookin like shes about to die in mere hours! And its TWICE now ive had to save her, thankfully the guys here came to my rescue!!
So id suggest flushing ( AGAIN!! Youre prob sick of the word! ) and checking the soil mixture making sure its not full of nutrients, its better to have an organic based soil, that has a slight active nutrient base and then mix in any fillers you like, but i try keep it fairly airy, but a nice soil feel- not much pea-straw mulch and sand , mixed in i find this great. And the need for nutrients shouldnt really be put into action until theyve kind of established themselves, as Cindy at 5 weeks was pretty big and i only gave her a 1/4 strength dose of NItrosol ( 10%N,6%P,8%K) every 3rd water.. WAsnt until week 7 or so, when she'd doubled in size that i increased to half strength, and then slowly adjusted over time in relation to her size.. This is Cindy at about 4 weeks, and then 4 weeks later.. She blew up in 4 weeks to that. So your setup with CFL's and such you had, if they were only transplanted to larger pots, and given a light dose of nutes, over the next 2 weeks or so theyd have gotten larger in size.. But too much nutrients isnt good for them when young. JUST LIKE PYRETHRUM SPRAY - SO I FOUND OUT!!
So if maybe youd have added some cfl's it would have vegged well, until you decided to flip.. But im not trying to make you feel bad mate, just my thoughts, on seeing your poor ladies.. But they may all recover well, or you may lose 1 or 2.. FLushing and such is all i can recommend at this stage.. ANYONE WHO HAS ANY IDEAS FOR THIS GUY PLEASE HELP!!! WE CANT LOSE ANYMORE GIRLS!!!
Goodluck bro, hope you sort it.. later mate. Smokem..

Thanks Smokemup! I'm pretty sure it's the soil. I checked the ph again at a closer depth and all were hovering at 7. So I ph downed a qt of water a piece to @ 6 and gave them a drink. All they've had since transplant has been the HELP I gave them today. Ph went down to 6.7-8. Tomorrow I'll transplant again into the FF and hope for the best.

 

[Smokemupm8]

No worries mate.. I just hope that you get some positive results soon buddy!! All the best, and just be careful feeding em, give em the right lighting and such, and you should see them looking perkier in about 2days, fingers crossed !! Take it easy and goodluck, SMOKEMUP..

 

[Korloin]

Now i see you transplanted, this is where prob #1 may occur: Your reference to your soil being TOO HOT, maybe on the mark.. When Cindy was at a month and fairly large, she only got LIGHT nutrients as the soil has active organic nutes. An increase of any may cause lock out or excess build ups of any element, thus maybe why youre experiencing different symptoms?? So what does your soil consist of now?
#2 Since changing the lighting, what are you using wattage wise and is it a HPS?
#3 What lighting schedule are they on, i kno ya prob mentioned it soz i forgot!.

#1. The soil is the same except I added @ 1cup happy frog, 1 cup lime, a few cups of sand and a bit of blended and liquified fruit and veggie compost from the kitchen. @ a cup or so. I did this before the seeds had popped. Over3 weeks ago. Before I transplanted I "diluted" the soil w/ a bag of topsoil and mixed. The bottom of the milk crates has the more hot soil and the top dress was more topsoil heavy. I though that might give em a week or so me fore they got to the nutes.

#2 I've been using 400w hps about 2 feet away for the first few days and then on the 10th raised them about 4".

#3. They've been on GLR since week 2. 12 on 12off w/ an hour of light in the middle of the dark cycle.

Thanks for all the help Smokemup! I'm feeling they're gonna make it. Just have to put off flower for a bit longer and let em heal I think.

 

[shizznizzle]

Hey Korloin I am sorry you are struggling right now, one question I do have though is how close is the light? Some of the pics you show seem very similar to the symptoms I had with heat stress. I am not so sure I would flush the soil just yet. Any improvement since the last post? I am for you, please do not hesitate if you need help still kind of noobish myself but if I do not have the answer I will try and find one.....I totally understand the panic just remember to use new growth not old for your gauge of health. I believe a wise old Heirloom told me that once....... and keep your chin up mate!

 

[Korloin]

Hey Korloin I am sorry you are struggling right now, one question I do have though is how close is the light? Some of the pics you show seem very similar to the symptoms I had with heat stress. I am not so sure I would flush the soil just yet. Any improvement since the last post? I am for you, please do not hesitate if you need help still kind of noobish myself but if I do not have the answer I will try and find one.....I totally understand the panic just remember to use new growth not old for your gauge of health. I believe a wise old Heirloom told me that once....... and keep your chin up mate!

They're about 25" from the lamp. I could lower the setting to 275w or 250w. I was going to do that after I transplanted tonight anyway.

 

[shizznizzle]

If I remember correctly the HID is new for them, you may want to dial back a bit either more height or maybe less wattage. I am unsure 100% I know when I moved mine from flouros to the HID I kept at about 4' first day then lowered. However I also noticed with my Frankenlight that it has a very intense center point on it and 36" was still not enough clearance. Not sure that this is the problem but some of the pics look very similar.

 

[Korloin]

If I remember correctly the HID is new for them, you may want to dial back a bit either more height or maybe less wattage. I am unsure 100% I know when I moved mine from flouros to the HID I kept at about 4' first day then lowered. However I also noticed with my Frankenlight that it has a very intense center point on it and 36" was still not enough clearance. Not sure that this is the problem but some of the pics look very similar.

Thanks Shizz!

I was thinking along the same lines this morning on my way to work. After transplant they were a bit further away and I brought them closer by maybe 4". I think you may be on to something here. If I could avoid transplanting again, that would be ideal! I'll drop the ballast to 275w when I get home and we'll see how they fair under a bit less intensity.

 

[OG1969]

Dam , hope them girls snap back into shape, and they say it is just like growing a weed. Hope the new soil helps, once I cut mine with the humbolt and the roots organic the plant took off. Not sure on the light will get a pic when I get home but my 600 is only about 12-15 inches above the plants.

 

[Korloin]

Dam , hope them girls snap back into shape, and they say it is just like growing a weed. Hope the new soil helps, once I cut mine with the humbolt and the roots organic the plant took off. Not sure on the light will get a pic when I get home but my 600 is only about 12-15 inches above the plants.

Thanks OG.
I think I'll transplant regardless as I just don't trust the soil they're in now.
I've one of each germing in some water just in case things go horribly wrong.

 

[OG1969]

I know the feeling when I put my first 6 bcs clones outside, they went from a nice grow tent with t5 lighting out out into a nice 106 they hit the ground , I shit you not , then the sun set and they perked back up with water . Lost three kept three . Do what you feel is right , try and get the soil right so you don't have to keep transplanting her , best of luck look forward to when your saying shit my grow room is way to small, lol . Peace good grow for the girls

 

[OG1969]

BTW my light is like 9 9 1/2 inches above the tip of my soon to be mother plant.

LOOKS further but taped out it is just over 9 inches, sorry for the crappy pic

 

[Smokemupm8]

hey mate,
Cool,thanks for the info.. Well firstly IMO, using a HPS will give you slower veg growth for awhile, i have seen this time and tima again.. As usually you use an MH for the whiter/bluish light, which HPS has less of. Thats why under the CFL's they were lookng good!! As its a better spectrum(6500k's) for the veg, when you flip to 12/12 the HPS will come into affect, after a week or so and flowering will occur. Some people have used a HPS all the way thru - but i see better results vegging with CFL usually..
I had my 400w MH about a foot above the tops, but i have a fan blowing between the globe and plants tops..
SO IT MAYBE A COMBO OF A FEW THINGS?? But yeah, id wait til theyve grown some more healthy shoots and leaves, maybe a week or so, and see how theyre going. But if ya stick em back under your CFL set up, i think they MAY respond faster than with the HPS atm?? PLEASE ASK AROUND, BUT I THINK THIS MAY BE A SUITABLE OPTION FOR YA.. Til they bounce back with veg growth at least? IDK???
Hope all sorts out buddy!! Goodluck, Smokemup