Trimming before flowering?

i think you will be fine my friend.

i break the rules all the time. you dont learn anything by always following what people say is not right and not possible.

i cut baby leaves that would scare away most defoliators, bud sites are litterally microscopic when i cut, as long as your carefull not to snip too close to them.

i do agree with the others that its VERY late in the game to start ripping everything off, but its done now.

just try to hit it hard with anti shock stuff like vitamin B products like BPN's seaweed and vita blue and superthrive is famous for its anti shock.

take what i say with a dpinch of salt tho my friend...when it comes to defoliation im a bit hardcore disestablishmentarian, things need to be shook up a little ;)
 
Thats relieving. I have a bunch of nutes so hopefully i can scrounge something. One of the actually journals i was referencing while i was defoliating did the same "complete defoliation" as i tried. And this topic thread alone has enough in it to justify going with that method.

The plants are still looking great, the sweet leaves and flowers are already reacting to it i feel. If it is a mistake or too much tho i am glad i got you guys to bounce ideas off of or get advice from.

This is my first grow and it is with bag seeds, It really would be a shame if i stunted my ladies because of the extreme defoliation, but this is my learning period so what happens happens. I know so far from the experience that as delicate as these ladies are (could just be my case) they can sure take a beating and still thrive.

Sometimes a pimp gots to get a little rough with his girls. (if they going to respect him)
 
Thats relieving. I have a bunch of nutes so hopefully i can scrounge something. One of the actually journals i was referencing while i was defoliating did the same "complete defoliation" as i tried. And this topic thread alone has enough in it to justify going with that method.

yeah cheap ass organic seaweed from any home and garden type shop is very good for our plants. Still go with someone like BPN when you can as he is a chemistry wizard and its made for our plants.

This is my first grow and it is with bag seeds, It really would be a shame if i stunted my ladies because of the extreme defoliation, but this is my learning period so what happens happens. I know so far from the experience that as delicate as these ladies are (could just be my case) they can sure take a beating and still thrive.
It can go horribly wrong and everything you touch turns to dust...but thats not very often thankfully. if your really gonna join the club and not be a 1 plant wonder (we get a lot of em) you HAVE to get all the PH, temp, humidity checkers bro. especially PH..as that can change all by itself over time with no other condition changing =/

Sometimes a pimp gots to get a little rough with his girls. (if they going to respect him)

:rofl:
 
Opinions vary and they always will when it comes to defoliation.

I'm not talking complete stripping. I don't remove EVERY fan. I remove the shaders that are covering the bud sites in the middle 2/3's of the plant. There are still plenty of fans on my SOG plants to deliver the nutrients. I've grown and defoliated thousands of plants and I'm speaking from experience. You're copying and pasting.

While it may be strain dependent, It's a FACT that unshaded bud sites end up considerably fatter than shaded ones with my strain. How do I know? Because I've done side by side comparisons numerous times.

IMPOSSIBLE huh? lol...

Agree hugely, I haven't grown thousands of plants...I've grown one but can logically see it is a fact that it works. Why are there small buds on the bottom? Not enough light or energy, fan leaves do have energy and therefore need light so why in the world would you want to keep other fan leaves shaded when you can take one big one off and more leaves will collect energy due to the removal. I'm the definition of a brand new rookie grower but logic speaks greater than words on this one.
 
Hi there i know this is a bit late, i joined towards the end of this conversation and only just read the lot cover to cover.

this post is aimed at Stilletto. whilst i understand that your a recent convert, i still want to get this down for prosperity.

Firstly, i came to defoliation on my own. no reading any journals, no googling and certainly no super cool write up from bassman or clever experiences from 420fied and cultivator....i came to TOTAL defoliation out of poverty..the need to smoke something whilst awaiting buds.

my point of view can vary quite a lot from the others as im a stubborn ass that wont disbelieve one of my own theories untill i screw up with it ;)

i did read the usual snip or no snip for fan leaves getting in the way of bud sites, this is what gave me the confidence to take some leaves to smoke in the first place (yeah i know you get almost nothing from them, but it tastes more like a joint than a ciggarette does, im actually smoking leaves as i write this. :rofl: )



Well I am gunna go against the grain here and disagree with most here. Defoliation CAN NOT increase yeild, ever, at all, it is physicly impossible. Accually I believe it DECREASES the size of the yeild. This subject reminds me of people who claim that drinking thier own urine is healthy... not a drop of real scientific proof yet they will argue till they lose thier voice...I think it is because they would be too embarassed if they were wrong. :)
dont like the idea of drinking it, but urine is very sterile when its first produced and contains minerals. i would be very grateful if a friend was willing to piss on a dirty wound in combat or survival i couldnt clean myself.

Lets talk about defoiliation, how can ANY one suggest that removing part of a plant that evolution has decided is needed for best results will increase the amount of flowers?
because evolution was designed to work with the awesome 'planet melting' power of the sun. those light rays have traveled zillions of meters through cosmic dust clouds, atmosphere, pollutants and god knows what else. i think it can penetrate a few leaves ;) indoor lights however, need all the help they can get.


So some of you are suggesting that removing these leaves would help in some way?
Defoliation works. its a myth thats officially CONFIRMED, right here at 420 magazine. Its no longer a question of if it works, but when to do it, how much to do, how often, what size leaves, what distance from stem e.t.c
This is where i differ from the mainstream (see that, we even have mainstream and fringe practitioners) defoliators in that im a f'kin savage. i remove every leaf as if it was a parasite and i do so as soon as i can get my snips in without damaging where the bud site will form. MY findings is that by doing so, you trigger those nodes to push out sooner and more often than not become a fully fledged side branch. the only leaves that are safe from my snips are the top 2 pairs, the ones that are barely formed and the ones that are currently forming. this is just to make sure that water can transpire from somewhere.




Once again by removing the storage space for the nutes there is NO WAY that this could "increase" yeild. Sounds like removing half your stomach would mean you have twice as much energy?

i dont see it as a stomach, more like pouches of fat....and im pretty sure a fat person would have more energy (read as ability to perform work and excersise) if they had massive lipo.


Jonny

i also agree with all findings that defoliation decreases nodal distance.

and my final note on the matter. just like the victorians commonly forcing plants to flower early, an art we are only just starting to get the hang of again....if you want to talk historical proof of the benefits of defoliation, i have 3 words for you...Japan, Bonsai, millennia. :rofl:
 
A very interesting conversation these last 5 pages.. Anybody know if its okay defoil auto flowers?

mainstream defoliators would probably shout a loud resounding NO!.....

that being said, first you need to consider what class of autoflower your growing.

short and fast or tall and long grow?

if tall and long grow then i actually reccomend it during veg, but only once.

this side of defoliation is still a bit of a danger zone, you can so very easily ruin a crop of auto's if you mess with them.

its my honest opinion that unless you dont care, ie lots of cash or seeds or whatever...avoid it untill someone has the system dialed in. =)
 
mainstream defoliators would probably shout a loud resounding NO!.....

that being said, first you need to consider what class of autoflower your growing.

short and fast or tall and long grow?

if tall and long grow then i actually reccomend it during veg, but only once.

this side of defoliation is still a bit of a danger zone, you can so very easily ruin a crop of auto's if you mess with them.

its my honest opinion that unless you dont care, ie lots of cash or seeds or whatever...avoid it untill someone has the system dialed in. =)
Honestly I was thinking the same thing and I can see that growing an autoflower although a quick way to get bud (ok to pretty good bud) it isn't very satisfying on the grow side.. Because of the fact that I do feel very limited on being able to do anything with it
 
haha i can relate...i love fussing the plants.

you start to appreciate it a bit after a while tho, if you get everything else dialled in and automated, i personally dont think any other type is as mass production friendly.

in an ideal world, you would find a strain you like, breed it for generations to get it tuned into your enviroment and emphasise the traits you like best and once thats locked down you introduce the autoflower genes, probably best to do this as a side grow to the main gene pool then cross it in when you got it all right....breed those for a few generations to further stabilise it, then feminise it and grow a small factory worth =D
 
you start to appreciate it a bit after a while tho, if you get everything else dialled in and automated, i personally dont think any other type is as mass production friendly.

i have to disagree there mate. i mass produce with ease with normal strains. and 420fied who uses the hempy method to perfection also mass produces with ease putting his clones straight 12/12. im yet to discover any auto that can yield as well as a normal strain and have the quality too. they are handy for starting out but then i dont really see how they are any easier to grow. its just the adjustment of a timer thats necessary for non autos. i get bumper crops in 10/11 weeks start to finish, so my grow time is short too with non autos. and non autos for the most part are way more forgiving to errors.
 
i know you two are serious grower, so i am forced to sit up and take note. however, im certain that im seeing something in autos that your not, im also aware that they are still cutting edge and historically autos have been unimpressive to say the least.

have either of you any experience in broadcast growing? thats kinda the direction im heading in. i know until now its a style of growing thats been exclusively outdoor, but then so was growing Mj until not all that long ago. and i get the feeling that if i can pull off this hydroganic thing right, ill be growing in a style that no one else has yet to try, indoors at least. (once all the methods are combined).


however, just be patient with me untill ive done 2 generations of these KC45s. i may be stubborn, but not stupid....if i dont see the projected benefits im hopnig for, ill eat my words and go for a reg 30/70 ind/sati strain that yeilds well.
 
no i have no experience in outdoor growing at all, not anything decent anyway. dont get me wrong if u have something that works for u thats great but as i said its not for me and i think for now at least its not something id be interested in trying again. as the saying goes, if it aint broke.....;)
 
i have to disagree there mate. i mass produce with ease with normal strains. and 420fied who uses the hempy method to perfection also mass produces with ease putting his clones straight 12/12. im yet to discover any auto that can yield as well as a normal strain and have the quality too. they are handy for starting out but then i dont really see how they are any easier to grow. its just the adjustment of a timer thats necessary for non autos. i get bumper crops in 10/11 weeks start to finish, so my grow time is short too with non autos. and non autos for the most part are way more forgiving to errors.
I've always wondered what is the hempy method.. I can't seem to find more on it on the net??
 
no i have no experience in outdoor growing at all, not anything decent anyway. dont get me wrong if u have something that works for u thats great but as i said its not for me and i think for now at least its not something id be interested in trying again. as the saying goes, if it aint broke.....;)

lol to be honest bro im a bit complicated.

the good me wants to work in harmony with nature, evolving a system that could plug right into the eden project once the draconian forces that be finally lose the war.

the dark side doesnt give a toss. is more than happy to go clinical and chemical, aircontidtioned airoponic suspended in 365 degree lighting, rolled out like mutha fukn cars out of a factory.. :rofl:

i owe it to myself to always let the good guy get first shot at life :)
 
I'm still very pessimistic about defolairation & whether it really does add to yield ???


But seeing a side by side comparison of this method used against another method is yet to be seen yield wise !!!



But yet i still see growers beat their chest about the method with out proving any hard core evidence or comparing with other methods !



I rest my case :peace:
 
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