Trimming before flowering?

Cultivator said:
with respect with the knowledge u have why not post a journal. easy to talk u know what i mean? just i see u posting alot but u not showing what u do. i think the community have alot more respect if u show some of what u are talking. i dont show everything in my journals for whatever reason but i show enough to back up what im saying. just saying......
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couldnt agree more. i KNOW i occasionally am full of shit untill i learn better, but at least im totally exposed and open to my peers, i like to be judged correctly or how do i measure my own self worth as a man...ok thats a bit wierd but i think you know what i mean..its a dignity thing.

gairbud said:
forum
Do It Yourself
thread
the a.b.c. of this new grow.
by gairbud.
Click to expand...

step it up a notch brother...learn sig links ;)
 
Stilletto said:
Hey all..... I have been following this thread closely but have not chimed in since I have nothing new to offer the discussion ... yet.

As I stated earlier, I am doing a side by side comparison as we speak and will have results soon(4weeks). I planned to start a new thread on the subject soon and get some progress pics up. I read all I could and was in a great spot to do this. My timing worked well and I will explain it all on my future post.

I have been staying quiet because it seems some people already have thier minds made up and even if my results show no improved yeild they will say my test is skewed or conditions were variable. I will even do one more side by side on the next run so I can confirm results.

Experimenting is one of my favorate parts of the hobby, I have ran side by sides on MH/hps... different nute systems, different topping techniques, flushing, etc. I have kept a written journal for last 8 years that spans 40+ harvests with hundreds of plants.

I jumped into this thread rather aggressively and politely backed down when I seemed to offended some people. So instead of theororizing I decided just to do it and see. I didn't want to be stubborn in my opinions without accually trying it. I will be happy to share my knowledge as I go along. :)

Since I have had my system dialed in for so long I have had great consistancy and it is easy to do these comparisons. The strain currently is Triple X and the next test will be on Strawberry Cough, I have ran both many times.

I will also point out that I read Bassmans, Gigabanes, and a few other members journals that defoliate. I did what they all said, now we will see. I will point out that not many of them are pulling in big yeilds/plant or per watt. NO OFFENCE.... just pointing it out... on avg I get 20-24 oz with 4 plants under 800w every 8 weeks. Maybe I was not reading thier #'s correctly... sorry if I am mistaken. My point is that when someone who gets smaller yeilds than I do swears that something they are doing is better than what I do it makes me wonder.

Before you jump at me please correct me if I am wrong... post your yeilds.

I look forward to starting my side by side journal... maybe we can all learn something. :)

Jonny
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Your arrogance is laughable.
 
Stilletto said:
Clearly I can offend people even when I am not trying.... sheesh pal.... lighten the fuck up.

Jonny
Click to expand...

I'll lighten up when you lose your arrogant attitude and stop insulting other growers' harvests. The majority of us are here to share ideas and help one another, not turn this forum into some type of dick measuring contest.

You wrote: "I will also point out that I read Bassmans, Gigabanes, and a few other members journals that defoliate. I did what they all said, now we will see. I will point out that not many of them are pulling in big yeilds/plant or per watt. NO OFFENCE.... just pointing it out... on avg I get 20-24 oz with 4 plants under 800w every 8 weeks. Maybe I was not reading thier #'s correctly... sorry if I am mistaken. My point is that when someone who gets smaller yeilds than I do swears that something they are doing is better than what I do it makes me wonder."

How in the world could you expect these guys(or anyone else that has defoliated with success) to NOT be offended?

You like to brag about your massive hauls and deride the efforts of others, yet I see that you've authored only one grow journal.....and your results weren't jaw dropping(600 grams off of 800 watts). Author some journals. Help some people. Show some dried weight on a scale. Add something positive to the community before pulling your Grow God act on us. If you'd lose your arrogant tone and allow yourself to believe that maybe...just MAYBE, others have had some success with defoliation, and that we're all not telling lies, you wouldn't come off as such a 5 star dickhead.

I'm not all talk. I've shown my results over and over.

In fact, I'm getting ready to open a new journal. I run dual 600 watters on 6' rails. I'll be running 300+ flowering plants at a time. My defoliated SOG setup and I will gladly accept any yield/gram per watt challenge you wish to make.
 
I guess you sure told me.....

You are right in some of what you say.... but I try to be polite, I am a bit of an asshole, and I don't see it as bragging, I see it as pride.

Never once did I say I was better or more knowledgable than you or anyone else.

whatever....

Jonny
 
As 420fief mentioned before, I will also quote you Stilletto: "I will also point out that I read Bassmans, Gigabanes, and a few other members journals that defoliate. I did what they all said, now we will see. I will point out that not many of them are pulling in big yeilds/plant or per watt. NO OFFENCE.... just pointing it out... on avg I get 20-24 oz with 4 plants under 800w every 8 weeks. Maybe I was not reading thier #'s correctly... sorry if I am mistaken. My point is that when someone who gets smaller yeilds than I do swears that something they are doing is better than what I do it makes me wonder."

You may have spoken too soon. Now, 1st off, if you read my last completed journal, you would have seen I took 24oz down from 4 plants and COUNTLESS times spoke of how I screwed up that grow letting them get too tall for the light and shading each other out. If you read that journal you would also have seen I pulled 10.43oz from one plant which was the main goal, and I did that screwing up the grow!

If you've been reading my current journal, you would see that after chopping two of my four plants down I am at over 2300 grams wet. Estimated dry on that is 20oz. I still have two more to chop. If you have been reading that same current journal you would also know that I stated I still let them get 4-5 inches too tall which effects the yield negatively. Yes NEGATIVELY. Why? because they are too close to the light, not allowing full spread of light, and light penetration is not as deep as the plant is tall. This is all part of dialing in the details and I am confident it will only get better.

But you feel free to continue with your cockiness rather than acknowledge the whole story. Just like many of our politicians wanting to spin stories out of context rather than reading or telling the entire story.
 
Sup guys! really intresting reading this tread (and your guide as well Bassman)

I do truly belive that it cant be negative to remove your fan leafs, for more reasons the just light penetration and light spread.

i might be out on deep water with my thoughts about this, but ..

Light=energy for plant. The leafs absorbs the light and then spread the energi to were its needed right?

Then logic can asume that, some to alot of the energi collected by the fan leavs would be used to transport it around the plant to were its needed, making flowers in the case.

so by picking of the fan leavs, the only leafs that would collect energi would be the sugarleafs and small fan leafs on the bud sites.

so wouldent this mean, a shorter way to transport energi, and there by less energy needed for transport. this would allow more energi to be put in to making flower?


Think of it as a buss line. lots of stops takes a long time, but the express line takes you from a-b with less time.

Please set me straight if im wrong =)
 
ever heard of the phrase counter-intuitive? we have such a phrase for a reason.

i keep hearing phrases like 'how can it be good for the plant'..ITS NOT...its good for the grower. what you need to understand is that good in this instance is subjective, the grower wants bigger yeilds and so success in that makes it good.

defoliation is actually not very healthy for a plant at all...there are MANY examples of defoliation being problematic for native plant and tree life and militaries are more than willing to use defoliation as a weapon.

but thats the thing. we growers have discovered that causing certain harms to the plant gives us better bud (however that grower defines better, mostly by yeild).

its no different than topping. to the uninitiated, how much sense does it make that deliberatly decapitating a plants growing tip aids in its growth...lets chop our penis off to make our balls work better...it just doesnt make sense!

to you new commers to 420 magazine. i think you all need to slow down and take a breath. the culture here at 420 magazine is NOT the same as you find on all the other canna journals ive monitored. the whole 'he who shouts loudest and most boldly wins the argument' just doesnt happen here.

whatever peoples opinion on defoliation. the FACTS are these: enough experienced growers claim it works enough to warrant further investigation, there is NO EVIDENCE that suggesting the defoliation route is bad advice and will harm the plants enough to ruin a gardners day, the whole defoliation debate of 2012 is a fairly recent revival.

With all that in mind, and the fact the people have agreed to tighten up analysis...this conversation needs to drop down to a simmer for a while.
the glove has been thrown down...now lets have the patience that is EXPECTED of group waiting for plants to grow :rofl:

there are far more dangerous myths out there to bust than this one guys ;)
 
Cheesus said:
Sup guys! really intresting reading this tread (and your guide as well Bassman)

I do truly belive that it cant be negative to remove your fan leafs, for more reasons the just light penetration and light spread.

i might be out on deep water with my thoughts about this, but ..

Light=energy for plant. The leafs absorbs the light and then spread the energi to were its needed right?

Then logic can asume that, some to alot of the energi collected by the fan leavs would be used to transport it around the plant to were its needed, making flowers in the case.

so by picking of the fan leavs, the only leafs that would collect energi would be the sugarleafs and small fan leafs on the bud sites.

so wouldent this mean, a shorter way to transport energi, and there by less energy needed for transport. this would allow more energi to be put in to making flower?


Think of it as a buss line. lots of stops takes a long time, but the express line takes you from a-b with less time.

Please set me straight if im wrong =)
Click to expand...

The logic is sound cheesus, but nature and evolution is far cleverer and more complex than that, and sometimes what may seem logical turns out in fact not to be true for other, more subtle reasons. There are millions of genes and complex metabolic processes going on in our plants which we continually try to manipulate in order to get the absolute most of what we want from the plant; her ripe unfertilised buds to smoke.

All the plant wants to do on the other hand is get laid and reproduce, at whatever cost. Her sole goal from seed to death is to produce more seeds and pass her genes on. Everything goes into achieving this goal and if something prevents it the plant tries to adapt, like producing more flowers to increase the chance of catching some pollen.

So removing leaves may have effects way beyond simply reducing energy transport etc. I'm pretty confident that over the millions of years of evolution cannabis has learnt to deal pretty well with animals grazing, eating, or attacking its leaves. The plant will deal with these attacks as she only knows how and by numerous mechanisms, but it will be treated as a threat to successful reproduction, particularly if the plant is in flower and putting energy into reproduction. I can quite easily see how an outcome of this could be to produce more flowers but the actual mechanisms through which more flowers are produced are probably way too complex to fully understand; could be more light, changes in energy production or a thousand reasons.
 
just feel like sharing my first attempt att defoliating.

This before pic are taken like 15 days ago.
DSC001820.JPG


The new haircut
DSC002216.JPG


Next haircut will be in 15 or so days =)
 
remember people, to those of u who are new to growing, as advised earlier in thread its prob better to grow first crop with as little interference as possible. that way u can see the way the plant grows with no meddling, then u can try defoliating and other methods as then u have a base to compare. but hey i guess u could skip that step if u mimick a grow or 2 on here. its all about environment, nutes, strain, and giving the plant what it needs when it needs it. for example needs would be different if u just let plant grow out as opposed to heavy defoliation, just keep that in mind.
 
Dang De-foliat-tors :cheesygrinsmiley: :allgood:

DSC_9943_sgirl.jpg
DSC_9948_scrogtopbtr.jpg
DSC_9782_bm.jpg


Just messin with ya :cheesygrinsmiley:
 
Meh, outdoor I would be surprised it mattered one bit. The sun has just a few more lumen than our lights.
 

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