It's been about a week since I looked at her-Damn, she's been busy!
those colas are going to get soooo fat!
And the little gal is looking great!
those colas are going to get soooo fat!
And the little gal is looking great!
Fools Rush In: Newbie's Adventures In Suboptimal Conditions
- Thread starter syenite
- Start date
Stunning photograph! Grub looks happy too 
.
Glad the week is over for you and the seas are calm ahead.
.Glad the week is over for you and the seas are calm ahead.
She's looking horny and pleased to see me bruv hahaha Grub's looking healthier too
Oh yeah! Didn’t we say she was going to look right? She’s very photogenic.
McRib
Well-Known Member
She’s a beauty! Welcome to the weekend 
Looking good and still some way to go so those colas will only be getting heavier, and the little 'un looks in peak health too. Good stuff syenite! 
JimJonesJr
Member
She is swelling up fast. Not much longer now. Looking good on the back stretch.
CraCraCarl11
Well-Known Member
One thought on top lighting since yea you have little room as an inch isn't much. They do sell led strip lights that you can cut into lengths. They have an adhesive back and are sold under grow lights. I saw them when I purchased the clamp stick style led light. I am certain they don't put out a ton of light but maybe enough to add some fattness to the top sites. I don't think they were pricey either and some even came with built in timer. I saw em on that major site starts with A ends with zon lol. I got deleted for mentioning a similar site so not risking it. Being you are in NZ unless u get a more local seller may not come in time. Still maybe check em out u know more about lighting then me so if you thing they are crap be good to know. Then I know stay away. Just looked cool when I saw them as way to add 2ndary lightHey Carl!
Glad to hear your plant's growth and bud development haven't been affected too badly. And your neighbours sound like absolute dickheads, lol. Hope you don't have any drama with them.
As for my girl, I'm working through one variable at a time. First one was N def and I upped her feed quite significantly. Second was actually light stress rather than deficiency - she was really getting blasted at close range, and without the appropriate CO2 and nutes that would be unsustainable.
I'm curious now about the possibility that it's the lack of light coming from the top, as you and @Amy Gardner suggest. But I won't change anything for a week perhaps, so as not to mess up the current experiment with the reduced lighting and increased feed. But in the meantime I will think if there is a way to fit a panel above the plant, again, somehow.
I might also go have a look at @gr865 's vertical light grow again to see if the lack of top lighting was ever a problem for him. (Thanks for that reference all that time ago, @Stunger !)
CraCraCarl11
Well-Known Member
Yes welcome weekend setting up Christmas at work wtf. Tips remind me of nute burn. Now that I looked a pics before reading next page lol. It's similar to the start of mine early on and way b4 I got retarded sorry if not pc but I jumped nutes up more overly concerned with ph. Best bet is really good flush let it rain from the drain holes. Wait then feed. How long before you feed again not sure up to your feelings. But your baby looks pretty damn good otherwise. As far as light stress yes and can be delayed as I learned. As you cut back lights but shows more issue little later. Still thinking nute burn which tricky just lite deficiency almost
- Thread starter
- #770
syenite
Well-Known Member
Stunning photograph! Grub looks happy too
Glad the week is over for you and the seas are calm ahead.
She’s a beauty! Welcome to the weekend
Looking good and still some way to go so those colas will only be getting heavier, and the little 'un looks in peak health too. Good stuff syenite!
Thanks so much everyone for the well/weekend wishes!
The past week began with my coworker (whom the whole business is heavily dependent on) managing to accidentally stab himself in the hand with a sharp knife, severing his thumb tendon. His right, dominant hand. Oh yeah, we're the only two programmers in a software company. So... I dunno what's going to happen next, lol.
And very sadly two friends of friends passed within 7 days of each other. I didn't know them. But it certainly added to the heaviness already hanging in the air from all the cumulative madness and monstrosity of the year so far. Both brutally young, too, 26 and 30...
Still, there are still good things in this world.
Ohhh yuck mate boo for pre-Christmas stuff at work. Ugh!!
Yeah good point about strip lights! The panels I'm using are also actually very thin. It's just that the blower is above the plant, which imposes a further restriction on the space.
It's ok - I won't be getting to the bottom of the top-lighting question this grow.
I think I was right about the light stress. I dialled the lights back by 20% (more on this decision in a later post), and the "burning" at the leaf tips hasn't progressed for a few days.
I'm keeping my feeding pattern as is. I don't want to change both things at once (light intensity, feed) as then I won't know which has produced what effects.
I'd rather make the wrong decision and suffer the consequences, if it means I learn what actually went wrong!
- Thread starter
- #771
syenite
Well-Known Member
Apropos of nothing, some half-digested lines of thought
On greed
While doing the chores this weekend, I was listening to another discussion on that Future Cannabis YT channel. Something that Kevin Jodrey said struck me. There is an unspoken convention (within the community, industry) that maximising yield is simply the best (if not the only) strategy, and that therefore many grow tactics involve trying to find the upper limits of inputs. Give the plant as much light as it can take; give the plant as much nutes as it can take; give the plant as much CO2 as it can take, etc. etc.
He talked about how he'd rather have less weight if he could feel like the plant was happy and in happy equilibrium with its inputs and the environment. He hypothesised that many pest, fungus and disease issues were related to an imbalance of inputs, specifically nutes and light. This goes back to my earlier critique about maximising yield via maxing-out inputs. The irony, of course, being that the very attempt to max-out inputs is what could cost one in yield in the long term.
I continued to chew on this.
Implicit in the "maximal" tendency is the philosophy that the plants are simply resources that are to be increasingly mapped/modelled, manipulated, exploited and then exhausted, based on said mapping/modelling.
Is this efficiency, or is this greed?
And if we are not to aim for efficiency as a metric of progress/success, then what should we aim for?
I have in mind, instead of maximum yield, something like "maximum expression". The fullest expression of phenotype as the metric of success.
Look, I don't know what happiness is. But the fullest possible expression of one's potential seems like a good thing, and a good indicator of one's health and individual autonomy.
Am I still talking about plants? Who knows.
On sentimentality
So I was playing a game with Grub. One day I was very baked and looking at Grub's seed pod. Her space helmet. Her escape pod. I thought to myself, I'm sure she would like it if I kept her helmet close. I mean, that's the only (external) artifact that testified to wherever it is she came from. And so with a finger I gently rolled her helmet close to the base of her stem.
Some days I struggled to spot her helmet, mistaking bits of perlite for it until I could finally recognise the striped and speckled shell.
But every time I took her out I made sure I could spot her helmet, and that it was still there.
One day it was gone. I scoured the surface of the mix in panic. Nadda.
Then I remembered that I'd taken her outside, and popped her out of her pot to check on her roots. Her helmet must have fallen away then, and begun its own separate journey into the unknown.
And Grub now, alone, her traces just whatever she carries within or as her body, her leaps and spirals across this alien landscape...
On greed
While doing the chores this weekend, I was listening to another discussion on that Future Cannabis YT channel. Something that Kevin Jodrey said struck me. There is an unspoken convention (within the community, industry) that maximising yield is simply the best (if not the only) strategy, and that therefore many grow tactics involve trying to find the upper limits of inputs. Give the plant as much light as it can take; give the plant as much nutes as it can take; give the plant as much CO2 as it can take, etc. etc.
He talked about how he'd rather have less weight if he could feel like the plant was happy and in happy equilibrium with its inputs and the environment. He hypothesised that many pest, fungus and disease issues were related to an imbalance of inputs, specifically nutes and light. This goes back to my earlier critique about maximising yield via maxing-out inputs. The irony, of course, being that the very attempt to max-out inputs is what could cost one in yield in the long term.
I continued to chew on this.
Implicit in the "maximal" tendency is the philosophy that the plants are simply resources that are to be increasingly mapped/modelled, manipulated, exploited and then exhausted, based on said mapping/modelling.
Is this efficiency, or is this greed?
And if we are not to aim for efficiency as a metric of progress/success, then what should we aim for?
I have in mind, instead of maximum yield, something like "maximum expression". The fullest expression of phenotype as the metric of success.
Look, I don't know what happiness is. But the fullest possible expression of one's potential seems like a good thing, and a good indicator of one's health and individual autonomy.
Am I still talking about plants? Who knows.
On sentimentality
So I was playing a game with Grub. One day I was very baked and looking at Grub's seed pod. Her space helmet. Her escape pod. I thought to myself, I'm sure she would like it if I kept her helmet close. I mean, that's the only (external) artifact that testified to wherever it is she came from. And so with a finger I gently rolled her helmet close to the base of her stem.
Some days I struggled to spot her helmet, mistaking bits of perlite for it until I could finally recognise the striped and speckled shell.
But every time I took her out I made sure I could spot her helmet, and that it was still there.
One day it was gone. I scoured the surface of the mix in panic. Nadda.
Then I remembered that I'd taken her outside, and popped her out of her pot to check on her roots. Her helmet must have fallen away then, and begun its own separate journey into the unknown.
And Grub now, alone, her traces just whatever she carries within or as her body, her leaps and spirals across this alien landscape...
I can look back at the many times my stash has run out, and the resulting drive to seek out scraps of overlooked bud, or re-using ABV in an attempt to glean a wee buzz from. So I can understand people putting yield as one of their priorities. But I feel as long as I have a sufficient reserve of stored buds then what I would most want is quality of the bud, quality of the potency, and not yield.
I like when the caring of the plants brings about a sense of them being happy, that they are well and thriving. Altho in saying that, I am also interested too in if I can influence or bring about a greater resulting 'quality' to the bud's potency which may go against the view of the plant being happy, such as stem splitting which I haven't yet tried (altho I have had stems split early in training but not yet purposefully tried it at end stage flowering).
But I have tried drought stress which my feeling is that it can result in improved resin production for greater potency, subjective of course, altho studies by Dr Kaplan suggest it indeed works, but in doing that the plant will probably appear to be less happy, struggling perhaps a little as I imagine it's producing more resin for it to better weather the drought conditions, but that approach is probably only for the end stages of flowering. I agree with wanting the plants to be happy for the majority of their life, but I'm willing to give them a hard time at the end of flowering if greater potency can result!
- Thread starter
- #773
syenite
Well-Known Member
Very good points about "productive" stressors! And as you know, I have been heavily invested in that approach too. This is also why I don't want to overextend the very human concept of "happiness", which, in and of itself, has its own philosophical and ethical problems.
Funnily enough, from what I can see, what we call "high stress training" pales in comparison to the kind of stress brought on by overfeeding or "overlighting". And perhaps I am feeling particularly guilty, having been greedy with the light intensity a few times now this grow, and the plant (and me by extension) suffering as a result, literally every time.
And yes, I can also understand the pressures of scarcity both in a commercial and personal sense. So maybe I should restrict what I'm saying to those of us personal growers who have the privilege of a sustained stash/buffer.
I like that you bring in the term "quality" over yield, and it's closely related to what I mean: "quality" and "maximum expression" of the plant as the indicators of a grow's success.
McRib
Well-Known Member
I love this. I’m lucky enough to have the space to grow buds surplus to my needs. I just want happy plants (that don’t herm out) with pretty flowers
You were pretty stoned then ay?
- Thread starter
- #775
syenite
Well-Known Member
Yeah, nah. Don’t anthropomorphise plants. They hate that!
It’s partly just that bag appeal vs medicine chestnut. Commercial and craft cultivation seem hardly to meet. Not around here anyway.
I submit that paying top dollar for pretty pot that is harsh, has no smell or taste and gives you a headache not a high is an unproductive stress.
Inner resting conversation.
Yield matters, but it isn’t
JimJonesJr
Member
I think all of us go through the..killing with kindness stage. We want them to thrive but get caught up in the more is better thing. Not always the right solution to our goals..lol.
- Thread starter
- #778
syenite
Well-Known Member
Grub, day 40
In the last few days, something happened to Grub's topmost leaves! Intraveinal browning? Definitely looks like some kind of scarification. The new growth does not show any of the same signs, and neither did the oldest growth (fan leaves on node 2, which you can't really see in these pics).
It was about three days between my first noticing the marks and when I took these photos (last night).
I had a heat issue for a couple of hours one day, where temps got to 28-29C (~84F), but I doubt such a one-off event alone would've caused this. I turned the lights down (theme of the week?) as light/heat stress was my first guess, based on the fact that these were the leaves closest and most exposed to the lights, and the only ones to show these marks.
Thought I'd share them here as the colouring/marking does not look like many of the photos that come up under light or heat stress.
I pruned these same leaves last night to make room for the secondary growth.
Amen
Stop...
Thanks Jim. You've phrased it very well!
In the last few days, something happened to Grub's topmost leaves! Intraveinal browning? Definitely looks like some kind of scarification. The new growth does not show any of the same signs, and neither did the oldest growth (fan leaves on node 2, which you can't really see in these pics).
It was about three days between my first noticing the marks and when I took these photos (last night).
I had a heat issue for a couple of hours one day, where temps got to 28-29C (~84F), but I doubt such a one-off event alone would've caused this. I turned the lights down (theme of the week?) as light/heat stress was my first guess, based on the fact that these were the leaves closest and most exposed to the lights, and the only ones to show these marks.
Thought I'd share them here as the colouring/marking does not look like many of the photos that come up under light or heat stress.
I pruned these same leaves last night to make room for the secondary growth.
Amen
Yeah, nah. Don’t anthropomorphise plants. They hate that!
Stop...
Thanks Jim. You've phrased it very well!
- Thread starter
- #779
syenite
Well-Known Member
OK this one is also really good. They gathered up some of the folks who were responsible for distributing the Sour Diesel cut. On the way they also talk about the origins of Chemdog, OG Kush and Headband (hint: they're all related).
Don't know if y'all are into this kind of narrative tracing - the stories are actually rather mundane - but I find it fascinating!
Don't know if y'all are into this kind of narrative tracing - the stories are actually rather mundane - but I find it fascinating!
Good stuff syenite!
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