Graytail Goes LED - 810W Intelligent-Gro II w/ High Brix

[SmokeyMcFly]

AND ... if the company doesn't come up with a WiFi controller and an app for these panels, someone will!

I could really get into the idea of creating lighting schedules on my laptop! Sunny and crisp for several days, darkish and humid for a couple ... coordinate it with the watering/feeding schedule ... maybe the fans ...

Uh Huh!

The WiFi is the hard part since it would require hardware changes. I dunno why they created a dedicated controller. If they would of made it pc or app based with an Api we could create all kinds of cool shit for them

 

[SmokeyMcFly]

Hope you had a great holiday GT

 

[Dennise]

After Christmas dinner smoke.... High Gray......

 

[Duggan]

Mornin Gray....Happy New Year bro! Just voted for your Destroyer on POTM! Looks like youl'e prolly take it this time! Finally got those Desfran (DestroyerXDestroyer) beans on the way! Super stoked brotha. 100 % Sativa has me a little afraid though,must admit. Have a great day Gray.....cheers!

 

[GrizzWald]

Hey Grizzwald!

I'd like to compare notes on the Intelligent-Gro panels, if you're so inclined. I really like their efficiency and the 10-band spectrum, and they definitely grow more trichs than hps. The only part I don't like is the spread. Unlike an HID bulb, LED panels don't project to the sides worth a crap. So I'm planning to add ~100 watts to each corner. If I had to do it again, I'd get nine 90 watt modules and spread 'em across the canopy in a 3x3 pattern. One big panel just beams a whole bunch of light into slightly more square footage.

How are you liking yours? I do dig the sunset/sunrise feature. It's a no-brainer for LEDs, and one of the main reasons I have the I-Gro. With the 63 watt, full spectrum COBs, it's one of the most advanced designs on the market. Now it looks like other manufacturers are headed towards dimming/programmability, too.



I want someone to make a WiFi controller and an app for it, too.

G'day graytail!! I'd love to swap some ideas with you brother... Sorry, never saw your invite... I own 4x90w I-grows... I think that's a great idea about adding to the corners...sorry, I will read your journal, just saw rep thing and am answering before I read, so I'll ask questions that I'll be able to answer soon, lol... What size you in? Also an option in your case, with the size of your panel, is to move it closer to your back edge and adding two/three 90w panels to the front..what spectrum configuration have you gone for (settings)?.... There'll be more questions... Peace brother... Or sister... Hang on I'll look at your profile, lol..... HAPPY NEW YEAR!! Brother, lol, peace

 

[CareStaker]

Happy last day of December!








Congrats on your imminent, and well deserved POTM!

Thanks for starting off my 2015 on a good note, I'm so happy for you!

 

[Conradino23]

Congrats and Happy New Year!

 

[Graytail]

Mornin Gray....Happy New Year bro! Just voted for your Destroyer on POTM! Looks like youl'e prolly take it this time! Finally got those Desfran (DestroyerXDestroyer) beans on the way! Super stoked brotha. 100 % Sativa has me a little afraid though,must admit. Have a great day Gray.....cheers!

Happy last day of December!








Congrats on your imminent, and well deserved POTM!

Thanks for starting off my 2015 on a good note, I'm so happy for you!

Congrats and Happy New Year!

LOL, I'm SO stoked!

I gotta get my act together and post another update - been busy, Holidays, yadda yadda. I chopped the pitiful Carnival a few days ago, and hey, it wasn't bad at all - smooth, potent - perfectly suitable snob smoke. It's not even couchy, which is probably a testament to this plant's ultra zippy buzz.

Thanks for the support, everyone! And for the Holiday wishes. Yer all good peeps!

G'day graytail!! I'd love to swap some ideas with you brother... Sorry, never saw your invite... I own 4x90w I-grows... I think that's a great idea about adding to the corners...sorry, I will read your journal, just saw rep thing and am answering before I read, so I'll ask questions that I'll be able to answer soon, lol... What size you in? Also an option in your case, with the size of your panel, is to move it closer to your back edge and adding two/three 90w panels to the front..what spectrum configuration have you gone for (settings)?.... There'll be more questions... Peace brother... Or sister... Hang on I'll look at your profile, lol..... HAPPY NEW YEAR!! Brother, lol, peace

Great to see you, GrizzWald! My panel is about 14x22 inches with 6 x 90 watt modules. Its effective coverage at 2 feet of clearance is about a 2 foot oval so the four corners are the worst issue. I've played with a grid chart and a pencil, drawing circles and PAR readings 'n stuff and I think I'm best just adding to the corners and leaving the big 540 watt panel in the center. I'm running Intelligent-Gro's recommended timing schedule and it's been working just fine for me. I grew that Destroyer under it.

I've spent quite a lot of time lately studying LED panels - coverage area, Lux, Lumens, PAR charts, PAR/watt, PPF, DIN 5031-10 Sensitivity Curve , lens angle, spectrum bands ... etc - and I think I'm starting to get a grip on 'em. The main drawback that I see is the conflict between manufacturing design and efficient coverage. It makes sense for manufacturers to stuff more diodes into smaller spaces and deliver higher PAR. But there are physics limits, so the higher PAR comes at the expense of coverage. You get more intense light per watt, but your coverage area shrinks. Physics. Yes, better driver and spectrum design can help a little, but watts is watts - same watts, same amount of light.

A 63 watt COB with 21 x 3 watt diodes has the same PAR as 21 x 3 watt diodes spread out over a square foot. But the COB has a much higher PAR within its focus area. That's good. And it's a lot less costly to manufacture, which makes it cheaper per watt to sell. That's good, too. It also mixes all the spectrum bands at the source, so you don't need as much clearance to let them blend. All good points.

But ... LEDs beam, and COBs beam even more, since they're more of a point source, so you don't get efficient coverage. I'm using COBs as an example only because they're the ultimate in concentrated LED intensity, not because I think they're a bad design idea. The more you focus the intensity, the higher PAR/dollar to manufacture. But my experience tells me that the lens angles aren't what we think. If you check out Icemud's and others' PAR measurement videos and study the PAR charts you can find online, you'll see that PAR drops off steeply at more like a 40-60 degree focus, not 90 degree. It doesn't seem to vary much among manufacturers and designs, either. If you drop a foot, you'll get a foot of coverage. 2 feet will get you a 2 foot circle. PAR directly under the panel will be as advertised, but it will drop off exponentially as you move to the side. Geometry and inverse square principles apply. The diodes are surface mounted, unlike an HID bulb, so you get nada from a diode from the sides. HIDs have the very same output to the sides that they have directly beneath them, so moving to the side doesn't have as much effect. With diodes you get less light because of the side angle, and also because of the lens/reflector, which are designed more to produce high PAR readings than to evenly distribute the light. How many manufacturers boast of 120 degree lenses and lower PAR readings?

So ... ideally, a grower would want a 4x4 panel for a 4x4 room. That would spread the PAR evenly across the sky and be the most efficient for growing. But no one is going to make one for sale, 'cause it would be more expensive and hard to ship. If a manufacturer can put ten times as many diodes in the same chassis, he kinda has to. I'd like to run 50 watts of LED per square foot, so 16 x 50 watt panels would be perfect. But that's a lot more spendy than 2 x 400 watt panels.

My current conclusion is that LEDs are even more expensive than we think. I was happy with a 600 watt hps, for 35 watts/sqft. Now I'm running almost as much LED at 30 watts/sqft and I want to add another 400 or so for 50 watts/sqft. LEDs put out 50% more PAR, so I'll end up with more than twice the light. Less than $200 for the hps ... $2000 for the LEDs. Ah well, that's a hobby for you.

But I won't be going back. LEDs produce better produce, period. And this Intelligent-Gro is among the most advanced designs.

 

[Duggan]

Well brotha....Happy New Year That was a good little read there Gray. Your explanation of pars dropping off alot with angles starting at around 40 d. and how the lens affect has such a huge impact on usable pars. /sq. foot. I'm trying something with my present grow .....i've left the light(Budmaster2,675xg) right at the top of the room.Since these 26 gal pots w/trays take up so much floor space ,in order to get a real good coverage with the BM it should be up there.It's a full five feet off the canopy and they are loving it.
What i thought was interesting apon receiving this first LED light was ....just passing your hand under the light starting from the outer edges,you can observe how the intensity goes up the more directly under it your hand is.
That's why i turn on so many extra lights when i flower....just to get max. coverage everywhere once the plants get up there.I don't believe one light in a room is enough...rotating 180d. evry couple days helps.Ive done many a grow where one side of a branch is exploding with flowers ,while opposite side is loose and fluffy cuz it didn't get the pars.
Have a great NYE Gray....oh ya ,congrats on your Destroyer...it's the bomb!

 

[Dennise]

Congrats!!!! and Happy New Year my friend.... Now will you please stop entering so I can have at least a small chance.......

 

[Teddy Edwards]

Congrats!!!! and Happy New Year my friend.... Now will you please stop entering so I can have at least a small chance.......

Yes, Gray - or at least give us advanced warning you're entering, because if you do we can save the time uploading.
The most beautiful looking plant won. (I think the second most beautiful came fourth. I must check )

Great, great post on LEDs. Thank you. And, as a first time user of a 450W panel, who's nver experienced any other grow light, it's most encouraging to hear you say that LEDs produce indisputably better results. I also take some consolation from duggan saying he's produced half great - half fluffy plants. I guess I've just got to keep turn, turn, turning them. Or maybe raise it further as duggan's done...interesting, this.

Congratulations again. 'Bout time. Happy New Year!

 

[CareStaker]

SO stoked for you. I'm pretty sure I checked every day.

 

[cannacrazy]

I'm pretty addicted to HPS, but LED curious. I'm more addicted to smoking the very finest, so if the LED tech I'm seeing around is any measure of the new standard, I might be on board. I just can't imagine topping the quality I get right now using a combo of HPS and MH through flowering. UVB light is important too. Very important. I hear not many LED manufacturers actually produce what they claim and most fall short in the UV spectrum. I guess I can't be a believer until I see it for myself first hand. I know a grower who owned an LED business and he said the tech is still not ready. He recommends everyone use the new DE lights and supplemented with plasma if you got the money.

 

[SoilGirl]

Hahaha Gray, finally, someone who can post about technical things like LED PAR vs COB vs HID, without leaving me going...

I agree... even when going the cheap route - chinese lights haha - LED's are more expensive than we think >.< - however I've never used MH/HID/HPS lights before, so I wouldn't know which makes for better results, I'm glad you think its LED's though! - and yeah throw us a friggin' bone here lol, (Dr. Evil ) you stomped all of our plant competition into the ground, surely a nice little update from you for a consolation prize isn't too much to ask....

 

[DrZiggy]

Graytail, a Huge well deserved congratulations to you!
Congratulations to Doc, too

 

[GrizzWald]

Ceiling of LEDs...I'm curious if plants get used to the par, and as they flower the intensity should be going up with them? I think adding extra light around the 25 day mark could be beneficial, just after the stretch... I'd also like to see if adding a HPS at around day 40 would be of any benefit, with the more yellow/orange light??? Could light be like co2, the earlier it's given, the more it needs??...I'm relatively new to growing indoors, but have grown outdoors for a fair while... I like the idea of starting blue (spring)moving to purple/red (summer) finishing orange/yellow (autumn)....

 

[colorfuldayze]

Hiya Graytail. Both Happy New Year and Congratulations on that beautiful Cannabis plant Destroyer you grew! Honestly, your beautiful horticultural work of art reminded me of Aurora Borealis - one of the most beautiful and powerful natural wonders IMHO. I finally made it to your great journal and am looking forward to catching up on your efforts. Wishing all good and kind things to you Graytail. Cheers

 

[Graytail]

Hey, I really appreciate the support from all of you. I WON!!!

Gawd, that's cool! I really did want to win and uh huh, yeah, I checked it every day, too. I was in a MOTM contest several months back, and it was like this - jumped out ahead with another guy on my heels and tick, tick, tick, the votes went his way. It was excruciating, But this time it tipped my way hard the last week!

As far as the UV, I haven't done my research, but I understand it's easy to provide with a little florescent. The current LEDs are expensive and have an iffy lifetime. And again, haven't done the research, but my own experience is that plants want a lot of light in early to mid bloom, and then the need tails off. They can still take the intensity, but it seems to me that they often do just as well or better on the fringes of coverage in the room, while I give the young ones the best position under the light.

And welcome, Colorfuldayze! I do see the Aurora Borealis connection, heheh! Green to yellow to red - cool!

 

[AllSmiles]

Hey Graytail, Congrats on POTM.

 

[SmokeyMcFly]

Hey, I really appreciate the support from all of you. I WON!!!

Gawd, that's cool! I really did want to win and uh huh, yeah, I checked it every day, too. I was in a MOTM contest several months back, and it was like this - jumped out ahead with another guy on my heels and tick, tick, tick, the votes went his way. It was excruciating, But this time it tipped my way hard the last week!

As far as the UV, I haven't done my research, but I understand it's easy to provide with a little florescent. The current LEDs are expensive and have an iffy lifetime. And again, haven't done the research, but my own experience is that plants want a lot of light in early to mid bloom, and then the need tails off. They can still take the intensity, but it seems to me that they often do just as well or better on the fringes of coverage in the room, while I give the young ones the best position under the light.

And welcome, Colorfuldayze! I do see the Aurora Borealis connection, heheh! Green to yellow to red - cool!

Grats bud well deserved!!