In The Garden With OGpapa

[Olddog Newtrick]

I check pH from well after 48 hrs before and after nutrients. Even after letting it hangout for 12hrs I only get minimal rise.... Like .15 raise

What's your water source? Are you ph'n before or after nutrients?


Temperature also plays a part in the pH reading consistency.
so if you pH in cold water it's going to read different after that water is warmed up in the bucket or likewise. Warm to cold

I’m not talking about nutes… just plain Ro water.
Mine sits in a bucket till I need it so, days old and acclimated to room temp.
I then ph’d it with general hydroponics ph down to whatever ph you are going for.
That’s all, h20 and ph down, and after a few hours it rises well past where I had it. I ph’d it to 5.5 after 12 hours, it was up past 7, I ph’d the same water again, back down to 5.4 and after 8 hours it’s up to 6.0.
No temp changes at all, no other additions.
TDS after ph’ing twice is 70 PPM.
Starting TDS from my RO unit is 27 PPM
Not sure why the difference there either.
I’m considering putting my deionizer back in but, RODI water is 0 TDS, and I’m not sure if that would have negative effects.
The other consideration is adding an air stone to both my source bucket and ph’d bucket. I’m going to try this first as O2 is the only other environmental factor I can think of that would play a part.

 

[OGpapa]

I’m not talking about nutes… just plain Ro water.
Mine sits in a bucket till I need it so, days old and acclimated to room temp.
I then ph’d it with general hydroponics ph down to whatever ph you are going for.
That’s all, h20 and ph down, and after a few hours it rises well past where I had it. I ph’d it to 5.5 after 12 hours, it was up past 7, I ph’d the same water again, back down to 5.4 and after 8 hours it’s up to 6.0.
No temp changes at all, no other additions.
TDS after ph’ing twice is 70 PPM.
Starting TDS from my RO unit is 27 PPM
Not sure why the difference there either.
I’m considering putting my deionizer back in but, RODI water is 0 TDS, and I’m not sure if that would have negative effects.
The other consideration is adding an air stone to both my source bucket and ph’d bucket. I’m going to try this first as O2 is the only other environmental factor I can think of that would play a part.

@No Pain and @Bill284 what do you make of this?




@Olddog Newtrick I personally don't use RO, I'm on a high pH well from the 60s

I do use general hydroponic
pH up and down. Well I use ph down mostly. But got the up, cause I f up every now and again. It seems pretty stable just when I mix with H20. I just pulled a glass to the side I will check after 12 - 24 - 48hrs see how it fluctuates.

 

[Bill284]

@No Pain and @Bill284 what do you make of this?




@Olddog Newtrick I personally don't use RO, I'm on a high pH well from the 60s

I do use general hydroponic
pH up and down. Well I use ph down mostly. But got the up, cause I f up every now and again. It seems pretty stable just when I mix with H20. I just pulled a glass to the side I will check after 12 - 24 - 48hrs see how it fluctuates.

Doesn’t sound like anything I’ve encountered before.
I pump river water and don’t ph until needed.
I’ll mix a 100 liters then set ph and feed.
24 hrs later when I feed again it’s the same ph or slight change but nothing major after 24 hrs.
Any longer and it will change but slowly.
What if you wait until you need it.
Mix your nutrients then set the ph?
But as for an explanation I’m interested?



Stay safe
Bill284

 

[Olddog Newtrick]

Doesn’t sound like anything I’ve encountered before.
I pump river water and don’t ph until needed.
I’ll mix a 100 liters then set ph and feed.
24 hrs later when I feed again it’s the same ph or slight change but nothing major after 24 hrs.
Any longer and it will change but slowly.
What if you wait until you need it.
Mix your nutrients then set the ph?
But as for an explanation I’m interested?



Stay safe
Bill284

I don’t think I’ve ever mixed nutes and let them sit, I mix and use them immediately so, not sure on that.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

I don’t think I’ve ever mixed nutes and let them sit, I mix and use them immediately so, not sure on that.

I'm running an experiment on that. Just to see if the PH changes significantly. Gallon jugs, two of them. Nutrients are mixed and PH is at 6.4.
When I feed/water tomorrow I will recheck to see.
I love experimenting and testing things out. Why? Just 'cuz.

 

[Olddog Newtrick]

I'm running an experiment on that. Just to see if the PH changes significantly. Gallon jugs, two of them. Nutrients are mixed and PH is at 6.4.
When I feed/water tomorrow I will recheck to see.
I love experimenting and testing things out. Why? Just 'cuz.

Yeah me too.. and I like gadgets so, I just ordered a ph monitor and doser.. lol
If it drifts, it can fix itself. I’ll post all the details in my thread when available.

 

[Trump]

I tend to travel fairly often so I have to automate my grows which means my having to mix a reservoir that will last until I return. I've run reservoirs for 6 weeks without intervention. The last time I ran it 6 weeks I had the dehu dumping condensate back into the nitrate/sulphate reservoir to keep the water level up. When I returned the water level on the nitrate/sulphate res was at 1/3(55 gal drum), PPM was at 340 and pH was at 6.8. The calcium res was a 5 gallon bucket with cal mag mixed to the ratio I wanted and had a gallon of mix left.

When I left I was in week 3 of flower where they were just starting to form. I came back at week 9 and the tent was full of frosty nugs. I harvested 2 weeks later.

Not sure why others have pH issues but whenever I come back my pH levels are within range. If Bluelab ever makes a wifi model of their Guardian Monitor I'm going to get it so that I can monitor on the road. I initially setup the res with RO and the rest was just condensate.

I use two reservoirs to keep the nitrates and sulphates separate from the calcium based products rather than one to keep the solution from precipitating over the time I'm away.

 

[No Pain]

Chasing my own ph ghosts at the moment.
Something I noticed last night but haven’t nailed down is my ph rises significantly after sitting.
I had water ph’d in a clean bucket and let it sit for 12 hours and the ph rose around 1.5..
I ph’d it back down and am gonna check it before I leave for work and when I get home.
It doesn’t make sense because my water sits in a bucket for quite some time before I ph it.
You might try the same test.

I’m not talking about nutes… just plain Ro water.
Mine sits in a bucket till I need it so, days old and acclimated to room temp.
I then ph’d it with general hydroponics ph down to whatever ph you are going for.
That’s all, h20 and ph down, and after a few hours it rises well past where I had it. I ph’d it to 5.5 after 12 hours, it was up past 7, I ph’d the same water again, back down to 5.4 and after 8 hours it’s up to 6.0.
No temp changes at all, no other additions.
TDS after ph’ing twice is 70 PPM.
Starting TDS from my RO unit is 27 PPM
Not sure why the difference there either.
I’m considering putting my deionizer back in but, RODI water is 0 TDS, and I’m not sure if that would have negative effects.
The other consideration is adding an air stone to both my source bucket and ph’d bucket. I’m going to try this first as O2 is the only other environmental factor I can think of that would play a part.

@No Pain and @Bill284 what do you make of this?




@Olddog Newtrick I personally don't use RO, I'm on a high pH well from the 60s

I do use general hydroponic
pH up and down. Well I use ph down mostly. But got the up, cause I f up every now and again. It seems pretty stable just when I mix with H20. I just pulled a glass to the side I will check after 12 - 24 - 48hrs see how it fluctuates.

ah ro water ..I used to use it but stopped as I did not see a benefit only a waste in water as the conversion is around 1 gallon of ro water per 3 gallons of water. I went back to my old ways of using regular tap and my water is boarder line hard so I use the hard micro in my GH line up and cannot complain about the results I am getting and usuing less water.

So now back to the Ph issue . Been there and done that .This is direct from Blue lab.

"Challenges measuring RO water:The water molecules are made up of equal ratios of Hydrogen (H+) and Hydroxide (OH-) ions and so the pH should be neutral (7). However, as these ions are bound up in a water molecule (H2O) they cannot interact with the pH probe so you will not obtain a reading."

Here is the LINK to the page.

If doing a nutrient mix always add your nutrients before adjusting ph . I hope It helps .

 

[No Pain]

here is a picture of my Ro system just taking up space. also some more on ph for anyone thinking of running hydro. Forst thing is a good meter I would recommend a blue lab handheld but it seems that I only get a year out of them before they start to get slow and for 100.00 niot cost effective in my opinion you could get a cheap one every month for alost a year at that price . as of right now I would recommend a blue lab guardian and @Trump mine is a guardian connect meaning wifi I dont use it but it has the feature. Its 3 years old and running strong and for phing I just pull the probe out of my system and stick it in the bucket and it is still the original probe I might add.

second do not chase a majic ph number.. only adjust the ph when it falls out of your nutrient manufacture recommended range mine is 5.5-6.5 I use Gh flora series I set the inital at 6.3 and let her go! Also and very importantfollow thier instuctions in regards to how to top up youtr system be it plain water or more solution as in my current grow I was doing it a different way and It gave me instability and then I followed thier instructions and it has been steady eddy and I do not ph my top up water I might and mean might have to adjust ph in my system once between changes that's how solid it has been I am blessed and grateful.

Next Ph down I use GH ph down and over time it will get weak as it is a dilution and is forgiving. The strongest down I have ever used was AN down that stuff a drop would knck down 25 gallons by .5 lol as it is a concentrate. I lean towards using something more forgiving.

Mixing solution ..add nutrients first and then ph and let it sit for a bit as it is normal for it to rise a tad . For simplicity sake you can mix a gallon of your feed and ph it to your desired ph and keep track of how much of your ph down it took for that gallon to reach your optimum level then after you mix a large amount multiply the amount it took for that one gallon by the total volume you are mixing and bam your done.

Lastly while taking the ro picture i looked and I have a Purple gg4 pheno !! Now I can compete with super purple @OGpapa over here but I'm excited non the less.

p.s I dont know if its in the article I posted or if its somewhere else but something is telling me if you are putting your ph probe in straight ro water that you can ruin it . I know I came across it when I was dealing the ph funkiness that @Olddog Newtrick was encountering.

Hope the information helps.

 

[Olddog Newtrick]

ah ro water ..I used to use it but stopped as I did not see a benefit only a waste in water as the conversion is around 1 gallon of ro water per 3 gallons of water. I went back to my old ways of using regular tap and my water is boarder line hard so I use the hard micro in my GH line up and cannot complain about the results I am getting and usuing less water.

So now back to the Ph issue . Been there and done that .This is direct from Blue lab.

"Challenges measuring RO water:The water molecules are made up of equal ratios of Hydrogen (H+) and Hydroxide (OH-) ions and so the pH should be neutral (7). However, as these ions are bound up in a water molecule (H2O) they cannot interact with the pH probe so you will not obtain a reading."

Here is the LINK to the page.

If doing a nutrient mix always add your nutrients before adjusting ph . I hope It helps .

I was talking with @MedScientist about this.
So, cal mag doesn’t affect the ph but, allows you to measure the ph..I wish they said how much cal mag you need to make the measurement accurate.

“It is popular to add a small amount of Calcium Magnesium (calmag) to RO water to be able to obtain a pH reading as our probes can measure pH once there are some ions present (Cl- and Mg2+). However, the addition of calmag doesn’t change the pH of the solution at all as it doesn’t contain Hydrogen or hydroxide ions which are the only ions that can change the pH. Even though you may now receive a reading, it has not changed from before you added the calmag, so what’s the point?”

 

[Trump]

Unless your water source is questionable, like a well that is untested, tap should be fine in most cases. If it's muni water you can get a report from them telling you what's in the water.

At a lot of the facilities I worked at they used a 2 - 1 RO system.

 

[OGpapa]

Herb Grotto
Is bouncing back after all the flushing.
Hopefully it's the end of some of the weird shit that's popped up! I will continue pushing lower than normal pH water and check the soil again in about 10days. The tent is ready to spread out. Need the hobos to wrap it up!

Seen 1 plant in the herb grotto pushing some heavy claw. But surprisingly everyone looks fresher if that makes since.


Cleaning the garage today, while the new set of storms roll in. Had some small hail last night. Expect golf ball soze today and tomorrow with chance of Twisters.


Oh ya and the moon was so beautiful night before last! I'm a fool for the moons.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

Herb Grotto
Is bouncing back after all the flushing.
Hopefully it's the end of some of the weird shit that's popped up! I will continue pushing lower than normal pH water and check the soil again in about 10days. The tent is ready to spread out. Need the hobos to wrap it up!

Seen 1 plant in the herb grotto pushing some heavy claw. But surprisingly everyone looks fresher if that makes since.


Cleaning the garage today, while the new set of storms roll in. Had some small hail last night. Expect golf ball soze today and tomorrow with chance of Twisters.


Oh ya and the moon was so beautiful night before last! I'm a fool for the moons.

Well, it's not Moon over Miami anymore.....
It's Moon over Papa!
I don't see any weather like you are about to get, but....that could change at any time. My truck is always ready to pull in the garage if we get hail warnings. I had the side of a camper get riddled from hail a few years ago. It looked like someone took a pellet gun to the whole side of it. Totally destroyed it.

Nice pics, sorry about that clawing. Tell them to straighten up!

 

[OGpapa]

Well, it's not Moon over Miami anymore.....
It's Moon over Papa!
I don't see any weather like you are about to get, but....that could change at any time. My truck is always ready to pull in the garage if we get hail warnings. I had the side of a camper get riddled from hail a few years ago. It looked like someone took a pellet gun to the whole side of it. Totally destroyed it.

Nice pics, sorry about that clawing. Tell them to straighten up!

The moon feels so close here. Lol was it really moon over Miami? I grew up in the moon over my hammy erA. Lmfao

Never put the 2 together. Bwhahahaha


It's nasty outside. Tomorrow and Sunday are suppose to be the show stopper. So hopefully it comes and goes! Push it east! My garage has been taken over. But I guess if I had to get them in I could. I might need to drink a bottle afterwards. That's a shame with the camper. Hail is not forgiving by any means!


The kids clawing is to be expected, water boarded them real good. If they don't straighten up, I'll push them outside for punishment.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

The moon feels so close here. Lol was it really moon over Miami? I grew up in the moon over my hammy erA. Lmfao

Never put the 2 together. Bwhahahaha


It's nasty outside. Tomorrow and Sunday are suppose to be the show stopper. So hopefully it comes and goes! Push it east! My garage has been taken over. But I guess if I had to get them in I could. I might need to drink a bottle afterwards. That's a shame with the camper. Hail is not forgiving by any means!


The kids clawing is to be expected, water boarded them real good. If they don't straighten up, I'll push them outside for punishment.

Yeah, I had an uncle who used to sing that "Moon over Miami" Ray Charles version when he was wasted. He tried a couple of times sober, but people plugged their ears and groaned. Wasted?....he could really bellow that one out and kept his audience.

I sure hope you don't throw those innocent girls out in the hail storm! It isn't THEIR fault.

 

[OGpapa]

Cup test set up at 12pm today




1st cup red left.

Well water after 48hrs

7.45ph - 71.5f





2nd cup clear center

Well water after 48hrs/pH down

6.2ph - 70f





3rd cup red right

TPS a and b, TPS nitrogen, TPS cal mag TPS silica ( my veg blend ), then pH down


6.22ph - 69.9f






Each glass will be tested this afternoon about 8pm, 8 hrs after started. Then a few times throughout tomorrow. Then once a day the following days for a 7 day total runtime.

Curious on the fluctuations, and or fallout. I will do the same with flowering blend, when it's mixed next. But flowering blends always seem to get fed to plants, no matter what because of the volume they consume.

But I would be interested in seeing if my values change drastically over a period. Could be what I seen with the high pH on pots the other day.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

Cup test set up at 12pm today




1st cup red left.

Well water after 48hrs

7.45ph - 71.5f





2nd cup clear center

Well water after 48hrs/pH down

6.2ph - 70f





3rd cup red right

TPS a and b, TPS nitrogen, TPS cal mag TPS silica ( my veg blend ), then pH down


6.22ph - 69.9f






Each glass will be tested this afternoon about 8pm, 8 hrs after started. Then a few times throughout tomorrow. Then once a day the following days for a 7 day total runtime.

Curious on the fluctuations, and or fallout. I will do the same with flowering blend, when it's mixed next. But flowering blends always seem to get fed to plants, no matter what because of the volume they consume.

But I would be interested in seeing if my values change drastically over a period. Could be what I seen with the high pH on pots the other day.

Shoot, I forgot to record temperature in my testing. I'll do that with the one I'm leaving alone for a couple days.

 

[No Pain]

I was talking with @MedScientist about this.
So, cal mag doesn’t affect the ph but, allows you to measure the ph..I wish they said how much cal mag you need to make the measurement accurate.

“It is popular to add a small amount of Calcium Magnesium (calmag) to RO water to be able to obtain a pH reading as our probes can measure pH once there are some ions present (Cl- and Mg2+). However, the addition of calmag doesn’t change the pH of the solution at all as it doesn’t contain Hydrogen or hydroxide ions which are the only ions that can change the pH. Even though you may now receive a reading, it has not changed from before you added the calmag, so what’s the point?”

My Ro system added it back in as it was for gardening. So a thought on the dilemma with the ph probe pens and ro water ..Maybe try ph strips like for testing pools or the General Hydroponics pH Test Indicator.

 

[OGpapa]

Oh the rain! And the rain! And the rain!

Living in such a mountainous region, the water literally just sheds across the ground. 2in of rain yesterday afternoon. We got by better than most. Looking forward to more this afternoon and all day tomorrow!

Praying for everyone in Nebraska and Iowa.

 

[OGpapa]

A few shots of Bhodi the bleeder