KanaGirl's Living Coco & GeoFlora Grow

[KanaGirl]

@KanaGirl Could you tell us more about the water source, light height, and other nutes and supplements you're using in this grow?

This doesn't look quite like nutrient deficiency, but if your plant is a super heavy feeder that could be the problem. If it's Phosphorus deficient that will likely resolve after your first BLOOM feeding. While we think it is unlikely this is a Geoflora issue, it's important that your plants get back to being healthy and happy, perhaps some other forum members have some advice?

Hi @GeoFlora Nutrients, thanks for your response. Water source is tap, which is dechlorinated by aerating overnight (I've used this method with all my grows with no issues). Light height is 24" from top of canopy, currently at about 35-40k LUX. No other supplements except those I've mentioned - cal/mag, and boogie brew teas with growers recharge (1x/week). I pH water each feeding (between 5.8 and 6.4). Like I mentioned above I've done this exact style grow with Dr. Earth dry amendments and did not have these issues in veg, but did have deficiencies in bloom which I had to correct with compost teas. Also, my tent environment is dialed in - daytime temps around 78 degrees, 55-60% humidity; nighttime temps 70 degrees, 45-50% humidity. Good airflow with multiple oscillating fans. Tent is completely pest free.

I'm at a loss why they continue to show what looks like a magnesium deficiency, but is not resolving with cal/mag supplementation. I've always been able to quickly correct magnesium deficiencies in coco with cal/mag.

Most users of Geoflora on this board are using soil, very few using only coco (that I've encountered), so I'm not sure if I'll get much input.

I will be switching to bloom nutes at next feeding, which is still 9 days away.

Any other advice??

 

[bluter]

you are ph'ing all over the map. get that back in line and stuff will improve.
coco needs ph at a steady 5.8 every feed.


i am also not convinced with using geo in coco. geo requires active feeding throughout. you can feed up to multiple times per day in flower. not sure geo is that type of nute. geo also uses top dress and other soil approaches at certain times which is not a coco thing at all.

 

[KanaGirl]

you are ph'ing all over the map. get that back in line and stuff will improve.
coco needs ph at a steady 5.8 every feed.


i am also not convinced with using geo in coco. geo requires active feeding throughout. you can feed up to multiple times per day in flower. not sure geo is that type of nute. geo also uses top dress and other soil approaches at certain times which is not a coco thing at all.

I always pH across a small range in coco - because some nutes are not as readily available at lower/higher pH values. I have never had an issue before. In addition, pH should not be as important in this grow because I am treating the medium like soil, not a hydroponic medium, so my substrate should be able to buffer pH. I have done this style grow before with Dr. Earth dry amendments - it should work the same, and I also have emailed @GeoFlora Nutrients directly about using their product in coco - they have indicated that it works well in coco. In fact, they indicated that pH should not require adjustment at all with their product. However, I am still seeing some minor deficiencies. Thanks for the feedback

 

[Emilya Green]

If it helps, I think we are seeing a calcium deficiency here, which in my mind would be solved with a bit more feed of these hungry plants or frequency of watering to get the granules into the plant. What you think, @GeoFlora Nutrients ? Calcium is after all one of the macro nutrients, and we do see the upper leaves reacting. Definitely a non mobile element involved here.

 

[KanaGirl]

If it helps, I think we are seeing a calcium deficiency here, which in my mind would be solved with a bit more feed of these hungry plants or frequency of watering to get the granules into the plant. What you think, @GeoFlora Nutrients ? Calcium is after all one of the macro nutrients, and we do see the upper leaves reacting. Definitely a non mobile element involved here.

I have been supplementing with cal/mag, but I feel like they are not able to utilize it. I've been watering every other day just to runoff, and pots are still fairly heavy on the day in between. However, after wracking my brain, I'm now thinking MAYBE I need to RAISE pH. I'm treating the coco like soil, so it's possible the pH might be a little on the low side to absorb the cal/mag in this amended substrate. According to the chart below, both Calcium and Magnesium are readily absorbed at 6.5-7.0. I was hoping that the coco with amendments would buffer the pH, but adding cal/mag, supplemental teas, and even recharge has not fixed the problem. I'll do a slurry test tomorrow to see where I'm at with the soil pH.

I did a heavy watering today with about 20% runoff to try and reset these girls. I then gave them a watering with compost tea and cal/mag. I'll see how they are doing tomorrow, and then next watering I'm NOT going to pH the water (my tap is around 6.7) to see if that helps them absorb the cal/mag. We shall see!

They are not doing poorly in any sense, but I'd love to figure out the issue and be able to correct, as I'm trying to develop a simple, replicable system for future grows

A couple pics of the girls today:

 

[Emilya Green]

You are growing organically. The pH has nothing to do with things. The calmag supplement is in a readily usable form, so pH is not affecting that either. The fact that you added recharge tells me that it is not a problem with the microbes, they are just not finding enough calcium to process. This all tells me that there is either not enough calcium on hand to be able to supply the plant, even with the supplement. Then we factor in whether watering the coco as if it was soil, is sufficient to activate enough of the Geoflora granules container wide... maybe it needs to be kept wet? It is an interesting problem and I am anxiously awaiting the answer from our company rep.

 

[bluter]

I always pH across a small range in coco - because some nutes are not as readily available at lower/higher pH values.

coco naturally drifts upward. by ph'ing at 5.8 the upward drift rolls through the ph availability for all the nutes.

I have never had an issue before.

lucky. it is dependent on how the different elements are chelated however. it is more important with salt based hydro type nutes.

In addition, pH should not be as important in this grow because I am treating the medium like soil, not a hydroponic medium, so my substrate should be able to buffer pH.

coco is coco. it can be amended but you can count on it to act like coco at some point. usually flower.

I have done this style grow before with Dr. Earth dry amendments - it should work the same, and I also have emailed @GeoFlora Nutrients directly about using their product in coco - they have indicated that it works well in coco. In fact, they indicated that pH should not require adjustment at all with their product.

i remember this question / debate with MC. greenleaf kept mum on the topic however. the general consensus was the safe route was to ph. several growers dropped it entirely though.

it seems geo is a bit more confident about ph. i would suggest the plants probably don't care where you are adjusting ph to at the moment, based on their claim.

However, I am still seeing some minor deficiencies.

i think they look good for the most part. like em mentions, maybe a little calcium or general hunger.

i'd also elevate those pots if you haven't. you don't want them sitting flat in the drain dish.

 

[KanaGirl]

coco naturally drifts upward. by ph'ing at 5.8 the upward drift rolls through the ph availability for all the nutes.




lucky. it is dependent on how the different elements are chelated however. it is more important with salt based hydro type nutes.





coco is coco. it can be amended but you can count on it to act like coco at some point. usually flower.






i remember this question / debate with MC. greenleaf kept mum on the topic however. the general consensus was the safe route was to ph. several growers dropped it entirely though.

it seems geo is a bit more confident about ph. i would suggest the plants probably don't care where you are adjusting ph to at the moment, based on their claim.





i think they look good for the most part. like em mentions, maybe a little calcium or general hunger.

i'd also elevate those pots if you haven't. you don't want them sitting flat in the drain dish.

Thanks so much for this feedback. I truly appreciate your thoughts

While I am watering every other day, just to runoff, it's possible the geoflora just isn't breaking down as readily as it does in soil. The nutes are not being washed away, and I do keep my coco slightly damp at all times (not a full dry back).

When I did this style grow with Dr. Earth dry amendments, it was actually much easier than what I'm encountering with Geoflora. I only had to amend the initial substrate, and then one top dressing after about 30 days in veg (geoflora requires top dressing every 2 weeks); and after flip, top dressed maybe twice in bloom, if I remember correctly.

Veg went like a breeze, no deficiencies, super simple. But in bloom I encountered deficiencies that I could not correct without adding supplements. This is my worry going forward with Geoflora, as I've had deficiencies in veg, and I know they will be even hungrier in flower.

My plan at this point is to see how they do during this transition period; feed a bit early (2 weeks seems to be too long for these plants); and if I see them struggling, I am just going to switch back to my botanicare nutes which work great in coco, just a pain mixing the liquid nutes.

BTW, the plants are sitting on built in elevated risers, so they aren't sitting in any water, super cool saucers from a company called square farmer. Love them

 

[KanaGirl]

You are growing organically. The pH has nothing to do with things. The calmag supplement is in a readily usable form, so pH is not affecting that either. The fact that you added recharge tells me that it is not a problem with the microbes, they are just not finding enough calcium to process. This all tells me that there is either not enough calcium on hand to be able to supply the plant, even with the supplement. Then we factor in whether watering the coco as if it was soil, is sufficient to activate enough of the Geoflora granules container wide... maybe it needs to be kept wet? It is an interesting problem and I am anxiously awaiting the answer from our company rep.

Yes, I'm stumped too! If it's not a pH issue, then I have no clue what it could be
I do keep the coco slightly damp at all times, it's more of a partial dry back between waterings.

Anxious to hear from the @GeoFlora Nutrients team as well

 

[Sangmang]

Nice journal, they're looking great! I'm gonna follow along. I tend to get the same mag deficiency looking issue that you're worried about but I'm in coco/megacrop. Good luck!

 

[KanaGirl]

Nice journal, they're looking great! I'm gonna follow along. I tend to get the same mag deficiency looking issue that you're worried about but I'm in coco/megacrop. Good luck!

Welcome @Sangmang glad to have you along for the ride.

I'm so glad you mentioned that you're having similar issues with MC, as I had considered using that nute on this grow, and then ended up going with Geoflora instead.

If you're familiar with Canuck style grow on YT, he uses coco that he amends with a dry nute line called Gaia Green, which is based in Canada. It's expensive to get here in the US, but he doesn't seem to encounter any deficiencies with that product in coco. It looks different than both the Geoflora and Dr. Earth amendments - more powdery.

I think I'm going to bite the bullet and order some Gaia Green on my next round and try it out.

Have you tried any other nute lines with coco?

 

[Sangmang]

Welcome @Sangmang glad to have you along for the ride.

I'm so glad you mentioned that you're having similar issues with MC, as I had considered using that nute on this grow, and then ended up going with Geoflora instead.

If you're familiar with Canuck style grow on YT, he uses coco that he amends with a dry nute line called Gaia Green, which is based in Canada. It's expensive to get here in the US, but he doesn't seem to encounter any deficiencies with that product in coco. It looks different than both the Geoflora and Dr. Earth amendments - more powdery.

I think I'm going to bite the bullet and order some Gaia Green on my next round and try it out.

Have you tried any other nute lines with coco?

Yes, I bought into the hype at first and was using AN and then learned how awful a company they are so I switched to other brands. Then I realized how expensive it was getting so I switched to MC and I'll never look back to bottled nutrients. I think the issues I've had with MC have been my doing, I'm still new and learning to use coco. Thanks for the info, I'll look into that stuff.

 

[KanaGirl]

Transition to Bloom - day 8

The girls are stretching a little each day, some more than others. My deficiency issue seems to have tapered off. I don't see any new leaves with the chlorosis. Trimmed up the lower skirts today and removed any nodes that looked like they wouldn't amount to anything. Also removed just a few interior leaves to aid in airflow.

They got a watering today with boogie brew, cal/mag, and recharge. They will get their first bloom feed on Wednesday!

Here are the girls today

 

[Trala]

Beautiful growing there girlfriend

 

[GeoFlora Nutrients]

@KanaGirl thanks for your patience on our response, we had a big week prepping for some stuff last week and didn't get to check the forums like we wanted!

Firstly, I'm glad your girls are doing better, they look great and it's awesome that you're no longer getting those odd leaves. Our science team seems to agree with @Emilya that it may have been a calcium issue, and since coco is notorious for pulling calcium away from your plants, we think this was the problem. It takes some time after transplant for roots to adjust, for the rhizosphere to be colonized, and for nutrients to break down. Looks like your supplements are starting to catch up to the grow media and the plant's needs!

If you're worried, or your plants are heavy feeders, you can certainly feed Geoflora more frequently than the recommended 14 days between amendments, or add some extra Geoflora at the regular amendment schedule. Also, Geoflora BLOOM has a bit more calcium and magnesium than VEG, so we hope you won't see this problem again.

Good luck, and keep us posted if there are any more issues!

 

[KanaGirl]

@KanaGirl thanks for your patience on our response, we had a big week prepping for some stuff last week and didn't get to check the forums like we wanted!

Firstly, I'm glad your girls are doing better, they look great and it's awesome that you're no longer getting those odd leaves. Our science team seems to agree with @Emilya that it may have been a calcium issue, and since coco is notorious for pulling calcium away from your plants, we think this was the problem. It takes some time after transplant for roots to adjust, for the rhizosphere to be colonized, and for nutrients to break down. Looks like your supplements are starting to catch up to the grow media and the plant's needs!

If you're worried, or your plants are heavy feeders, you can certainly feed Geoflora more frequently than the recommended 14 days between amendments, or add some extra Geoflora at the regular amendment schedule. Also, Geoflora BLOOM has a bit more calcium and magnesium than VEG, so we hope you won't see this problem again.

Good luck, and keep us posted if there are any more issues!

Hi @GeoFlora Nutrients, thanks for stopping by - I appreciate you taking the time to respond! The girls seem to be doing much better this week, and hopefully their first bloom feed tomorrow will keep them happy going forward. I do think that the nutes take a little longer to break down in coco, but I think the plants are now accessing the nutrients much more readily at this point.

I will be feeding a bit heavier than suggested and a bit earlier than every 2 weeks, as I think these girls are just heavy feeders.
Thanks again, and have a great week!

 

[DeeBoy]

Thanks so much for this feedback. I truly appreciate your thoughts

While I am watering every other day, just to runoff, it's possible the geoflora just isn't breaking down as readily as it does in soil. The nutes are not being washed away, and I do keep my coco slightly damp at all times (not a full dry back).

When I did this style grow with Dr. Earth dry amendments, it was actually much easier than what I'm encountering with Geoflora. I only had to amend the initial substrate, and then one top dressing after about 30 days in veg (geoflora requires top dressing every 2 weeks); and after flip, top dressed maybe twice in bloom, if I remember correctly.

Veg went like a breeze, no deficiencies, super simple. But in bloom I encountered deficiencies that I could not correct without adding supplements. This is my worry going forward with Geoflora, as I've had deficiencies in veg, and I know they will be even hungrier in flower.

My plan at this point is to see how they do during this transition period; feed a bit early (2 weeks seems to be too long for these plants); and if I see them struggling, I am just going to switch back to my botanicare nutes which work great in coco, just a pain mixing the liquid nutes.

BTW, the plants are sitting on built in elevated risers, so they aren't sitting in any water, super cool saucers from a company called square farmer. Love them

I've been watering daily with Geoflora in coco, this whole grow. I've had people tell me to water twice a day in coco (which I did for several weeks during my 1st grow). One of my plants loves the Geoflora, the other 3 not as much. But, after reading your journal, looks like they need an extra boost of the Geoflora. I just switched them to Bloom on Saturday, maybe the yellowing will lessen... I have been using only Geoflora, Calmag & recharge (once during veg & once for flower. I stopped Calmag shortly after switching to bloom. But my plants never look all that good. I just hope for some bud at the end...

 

[DeeBoy]

Welcome @Sangmang glad to have you along for the ride.

I'm so glad you mentioned that you're having similar issues with MC, as I had considered using that nute on this grow, and then ended up going with Geoflora instead.

If you're familiar with Canuck style grow on YT, he uses coco that he amends with a dry nute line called Gaia Green, which is based in Canada. It's expensive to get here in the US, but he doesn't seem to encounter any deficiencies with that product in coco. It looks different than both the Geoflora and Dr. Earth amendments - more powdery.

I think I'm going to bite the bullet and order some Gaia Green on my next round and try it out.

Have you tried any other nute lines with coco?

I was thinking about The Gaia Green too. Also the Recharge guys now have Grow Dots, which sounds good for photoperiod plants, but not so much for my autos...

 

[KanaGirl]

I've been watering daily with Geoflora in coco, this whole grow. I've had people tell me to water twice a day in coco (which I did for several weeks during my 1st grow). One of my plants loves the Geoflora, the other 3 not as much. But, after reading your journal, looks like they need an extra boost of the Geoflora. I just switched them to Bloom on Saturday, maybe the yellowing will lessen... I have been using only Geoflora, Calmag & recharge (once during veg & once for flower. I stopped Calmag shortly after switching to bloom. But my plants never look all that good. I just hope for some bud at the end...

Watering daily is only necessary if you are doing a hydro style grow in coco. When you add dry amendments, you need to treat it more like a soil grow - water when dry (or partially dry). I never let the coco dry out fully. You're feeding the soil (coco), not the plant.

When I used Dr. Earth, in flower I did need to supplement with compost tea - I used Botanicare's Pure Blend Tea, just for sake of ease. I'm really HOPING that I don't have to supplement the Geoflora Bloom, as I think my medium is now behaving more like a soil medium with all the microbes working to break down the nutes and feed the plants.

If you water every day, you may be washing away too many of your dry amendments. So, if you're seeing yellowing leaves, there isn't enough nitrogen, and they need more food.

I'm going to add extra top dressing, and feed more often going forward with the Geoflora. Do you have a current journal I can check out to see what your plants look like? If not, feel free to upload a photo here in my journal

 

[Jack420]

you are ph'ing all over the map. get that back in line and stuff will improve.
coco needs ph at a steady 5.8 every feed.


i am also not convinced with using geo in coco. geo requires active feeding throughout. you can feed up to multiple times per day in flower. not sure geo is that type of nute. geo also uses top dress and other soil approaches at certain times which is not a coco thing at all.

Yup I had issues with it in promix geo is more a soil nutes coco is hydro I usally feed my coco girls 6 times per day in my flood table