300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

In my research on the CMH bulbs with Digital is that they'll burn (light) for some time and not give off the proper color spec. If this makes sense. Also very possible the room temp will be higher than under magnetic? Double check me on this though I often do! It's just that when I reheck I forgot what I was researching.

Well, I'd have to say your research is correct, because the 150w CMH bulb I just tried to run with my 150w Galaxy digital ballast fired up fine, but flickered and was still flickering badly after being on for a few hours.

thanks Old Goat, very helpful info!

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

I jumped in late on this conversation, Im not sure whats you guys are asking but to clear things up from what I think is going on is this:

All of my panels are 3w/3 chip led's but I dont power the led's to their full power. Each led received around anywhere between 1.7w and 1.3w depending on the wavelength.

The reason I do not power my led's to a full three watts is because then the panels will give of a lot more heat which would lead to the chips not lasting as long and the 360w panel would be over 1000w.

Their are a few more reasons on why i choose not to fully power the led's but I cant really disclose those right now. Also every batch of Spectra LED 300's that I have received from my manufacturer in the past few months have been running around 380w of power, so thats the actual power draw.

As always awesome job SS!!!

Thanks for clearing things up, Michael.

Always good to hear things directly from the product designer and vendor.

Thank you for the update on the power draw. Is that due to manufacturing tolerances, or is a change in design and/or components responsible for the additional 20w?

thanks again for the clarification and for the encouraging words

 

[Jackel420]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Hey SS I got some questions for you. I have a growlab 60 2x2x5.3. I would like to have the same size wise plants as you, how tall are yours? I'm just gonna do 2 plants. vanilla kush and barneys farm. I have a spectra 180. How long should I veg before flipping? I think im gonna veg with cfl's thou. I had some mi5 super autos used the LED from seed to 6 weeks and they was to short between 5-7 inches lol well something came up and I had to ditch those but I didnt mind since they was so little. I think cfl's veg better. I don't notice much stretching with these leds when there in small spaces I guess it's not wasting any light idk? so I was thinking getting the plants close to what I want them to finish before flipping any ideas? thanks and hope thats not to much rambling

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

ya i agree SOG is the way to go if plant count isn't a issue. trust me i would be all over it if i could.

good point about that fan in the center making it more possible to grow more plants.

keep up the good work bro, hope you had a good Turkey day?

If your grow allows it, it's a great circulation fan setup. I'd have to have the lights up higher without it.

We had a great Thanksgiving, thank you!

hope you did too

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Hey SS I got some questions for you. I have a growlab 60 2x2x5.3. I would like to have the same size wise plants as you, how tall are yours? I'm just gonna do 2 plants. vanilla kush and barneys farm. I have a spectra 180. How long should I veg before flipping? I think im gonna veg with cfl's thou. I had some mi5 super autos used the LED from seed to 6 weeks and they was to short between 5-7 inches lol well something came up and I had to ditch those but I didnt mind since they was so little. I think cfl's veg better. I don't notice much stretching with these leds when there in small spaces I guess it's not wasting any light idk? so I was thinking getting the plants close to what I want them to finish before flipping any ideas? thanks and hope thats not to much rambling

I would use the Spectra 180 to veg, but keep it higher than you did with the autos.

The GLH lights veg very well, but if you have them too close they can have a stunting effect on growth.

I haven't grown with a Spectra 180, but it draws 240w and should do a great job in a DR60. On your young plants, start at 18-20" and if you get any stretching go from there.

My plants all wound up under 24". I let these grow to 12-14" before I LST'ed them and flipped them a week later.

If you're not going to LST them, I'd flip them at 10-12".

thanks Jackel and !

 

[Jackel420]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

I started out at 24" even had it up to 30" but I was averaging only 2.5" of growth a week. I don't know what was up with those plants. I don't know if you have seen SoilGuys's thread on here with his autos with a spectra 120 and gl40 but mine was turning out like that. Thanks for your quick reponse and help.

 

[GrownManHollr]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

The local Harbour Freight is plumb outta SpaceThyme Dial8rz. One of the local OSHs is sitting on 6 pallets of our discontinued volcanic-enriched media, I think we may make on offer on the lot so he can free up the room with what he does stock.

What's even worse, you and G8R are synched, I'm going to be fashionably late to the trim party and ESS again!

Since you b a "Gadgetalogical Evaluation Specialist" I would like your opinion/recommendations on EC/TDS/pH meters, after the little nute burn

with the Skarkies I'm going to break down and buy a toy.

I'm curious about temps in the HID room now that outside temps have dropped. Have you had to make adjustments to keep the temps up? Even with all of the heat venting disconnected on my two 400W CMHs, they are barely keeping my room above 75 degrees f. I had to put a small space heater in the floratorium for the few coldest daze. These bulbs are very efficient in terms of PPF/watt, hence little 'waste' in the IR, if I had the 1kW Elektroluks HPS in there, I'd be having trouble keeping it cool.

b

perch

Just wanted to toss in my recommendation for an EC/TDS/pH meter. I have the Milwaukee MW801 that I got from this Aquarium Store (DTPetSupplies).
Combination Handheld Meters - Milwaukee - pH, EC, TDS 3 in 1 SMART combination meter by Milwaukee
several months ago for $124. I see it's now $138. This is still much cheaper than I see the older green model going for. Mine has worked perfectly.

My only complaint about the MW801 is that it doesn't turn itself off if you forget to. Not exactly stoner proof!

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Since you b a "Gadgetalogical Evaluation Specialist" I would like your opinion/recommendations on EC/TDS/pH meters, after the little nute burn

with the Skarkies I'm going to break down and buy a toy.

Best bang for the buck and decent quality in an all-in-one, IMO, are the Milwaukee SM801 and SM802.

The 802 costs about twice as much because it's ppm range maxes at 4000 as opposed to 2000 for the 801. So, unless you're gardening in the Little Shop of Horrors, the 801 should suffice.

If you'd rather get separates, I'd still go with Milwaukee's meters. Maybe the PH55 for PH, and the equivalent for EC/PPM.

Of course, if money is no object, the toys get better, but I'm using cheap Milwaukee separates and they work just fine. The instructions need to be followed to a T, however, because the electrodes on these things are finicky about getting dried out or stored in the wrong solution. Checking the PH of pure distilled and RO water messes them up too.

I'm curious about temps in the HID room now that outside temps have dropped. Have you had to make adjustments to keep the temps up? Even with all of the heat venting disconnected on my two 400W CMHs, they are barely keeping my room above 75 degrees f. I had to put a small space heater in the floratorium for the few coldest daze. These bulbs are very efficient in terms of PPF/watt, hence little 'waste' in the IR, if I had the 1kW Elektroluks HPS in there, I'd be having trouble keeping it cool.

Temps are running a little cooler than I'd like, but the only adjustment I've made is to change the S&P exhaust fan in the LED tent to its slower speed in order to match the temp in the HID tent closer. The HID tent is still running one degree higher, but I'm satisfied with that gradient.

Lights-on temps are running around 72 in the LED tent and 73 in the HID tent. Venting both lights into the garage is keeping ambient averaging 68 with lights-on, but it's dropping to low 60's sometimes with lights-off, which is a little lower than I'd like.

I'm currently storing about 100gal of rainwater in the garage, along with other stuff that helps maintain steadier temps, but I'd really like to finish this grow without having to use a space heater.

It's a little warmer tonight in the mid-40's, but if it drops below freezing again I may reconsider using the heater. It wouldn't have to work nearly as hard as last time, since the 800w or so of lights are really doing a fairly good job at maintaining a workable ambient temp, but I'd rather have it a few degrees warmer with both lights on and off.

 

[Planter]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

I'm going to be checking trichs tonight, and I should get an idea of where things are at with each group.

thank you staffy

sweet, cant wait to read what u have to say!

 

[1234a5678b]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Looking great!

 

[go green]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Glad things are well SS.

I am back from my ... vacation...

-go

 

[Pop Kulture]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Lights-on temps are running around 72 in the LED tent and 73 in the HID tent. Venting both lights into the garage is keeping ambient averaging 68 with lights-on, but it's dropping to low 60's sometimes with lights-off, which is a little lower than I'd like.

I'm currently storing about 100gal of rainwater in the garage, along with other stuff that helps maintain steadier temps, but I'd really like to finish this grow without having to use a space heater.

It's a little warmer tonight in the mid-40's, but if it drops below freezing again I may reconsider using the heater. It wouldn't have to work nearly as hard as last time, since the 800w or so of lights are really doing a fairly good job at maintaining a workable ambient temp, but I'd rather have it a few degrees warmer with both lights on and off.

SS - great journal - I have been lurking for a while but I have not caught all the posts in this thread - sorry in advanced if you have already answered this: At what point do low soil temps become an issue? I have read that below 65 degrees F plants have trouble or stop taking up nutrients. I am finding that my soil temps can get as low as 62 with lights out and up to 70 after several hours of my HID light running. Just wonder if you had any thoughts.

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

50 DAYS FLOWERING

I guess the next update will be video, and I was too beat to check trichs last night, but I did take some pics.






THE LED PLANTS

THE HID PLANTS

Both groups are healthy and fattening up. The HID buds now feel more solid and substantial than last time I checked, but there's still a little stem showing here and there on the HID colas, while the LED colas look more filled-in.

Buds from both groups are nice and sticky and smell the same; kind of a fresh minty fuel aroma that smells very clean and pleasant.

HID plants are being watered about every three days, and the LED plants about every four days.

The foliage on both groups looks amazing for late bloom. My understanding is that the longer the leaves stay green, the longer they can produce sugars and supply the swelling buds. Balancing the nitrogen level with two or three-part liquid nutes isn't always easy, but the CRF's I used on this grow have my nute levels on autopilot.

It's easier to relinquish nute control over to CRF's once you see first-hand how well they work.

My time, energy and money is better spent in optimizing the environment than in juggling multiple bottles of nutes and supplements.

Using a submersible pump in a 5gal bucket and garden wand for watering the hempy buckets, and a wet-dry vac for the runoff, the labor on this grow is now very reasonable.

I do have a heating duct from the central furnace to the garage, courtesy of my brother-in-law, and by closing a few of the registers in the house, I was able to shunt enough heat to the garage to raise the ambient temp a few degrees.

The thermostat for the furnace is in the house, so I have to run the house temp at 74, instead of the usual 72, and that heats the garage up to 71, lol.

I'd much rather run the gas furnace a couple of degrees higher than break out that electric space heater.

These temps are with lights on. The top pic is ambient temp in the garage, and the bottom pic is of the temps in the tents, LED on the left, HID on the right.


Both the LED and the HID light continue to perform well. I have a pretty good eye for eyeball estimations, and I'd be hard-pressed to say which group of plants is looking better yield-wise right now.

I'll do a trich check tonight and report back.

 

[FiveSixDeuce]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Cant wait for the video.

 

[bobajim]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Awesome grow SS, definately subscribed and gaining huge respect for LEDs and your growing skills.... my only problem is if I read this thread for too long, the drool starts to damage my keyboard.

 

[IrishBoy]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

am not going to lie SS but i am jealous of ur grow! i hope my tent looks as good as yours. very very nice work man

yup the pump water wand and shop vac is the same thing i use, i love my shop vac.

u still adding cal/mad every feeding?

IYO do u think the coco is the best medium to use? or do u feel it could be as good if u were using soil?

if i remember right u didnt add perlite to the bottom of ur bucket its just coco? is their perlite in ur coco at all?

 

[Propa Gator]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Setting Sun demonstrates this strains' potential nicely, and...
He has green fan-leaf factories late stage
SS grows like a car computer controls; obviously well but effortless
CRFs alone, water wand for snow, honey sucka cleans up the mess

 

[Saturn]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Ok, 77 pages later...........

First off: Great job on the grows, plants look fantastic!





I think when there was a soil issue the comparo should of been stopped and find out the cause and try it again. The salt issue could be and probably is affecting the plants from beginning to end. If it was damaged in a critical point in time it could stunt it permanently and this might be true here?

Doing this experiment again directly after these ladies leave the tent might be in order and I think would very interesting.




Great job!

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Ok, 77 pages later...........

First off: Great job on the grows, plants look fantastic!

thank you!

and thanks for reading through!

I think when there was a soil issue the comparo should of been stopped and find out the cause and try it again. The salt issue could be and probably is affecting the plants from beginning to end. If it was damaged in a critical point in time it could stunt it permanently and this might be true here?

Doing this experiment again directly after these ladies leave the tent might be in order and I think would very interesting.

I appreciate your comments and concern. I almost did scrap the grow and start over when I was having the salt and mag issues, but with copious flushing, and then the addition of Osmocote Plus, all of the plants seemed to fully recover and so I decided to proceed with the comparison.

There is more than one way to look at this also. You could, for instance, just accept it as "it is what it is", and take note that the LED plants seemed less affected by the issue than the HID plants, which is a plus for the LED light.

Personally, while I think the "it is what it is" argument is valid from a certain perspective, it's not what I'm striving for.

If I felt strongly enough that either group was disadvantaged or handicapped significantly, I would have gone ahead and started over, but I feel good about the choice I made to continue, and I don't feel the comparison was invalidated.

The ppm numbers have been very good since the flushing early on, with 300-400 going in, and runoff at 800-900, so the flushing was effective in removing the excess salt.

I do, however, respect how you see things, since I'm pretty finicky also about stuff like this, but again, as the grower and person responsible for the accuracy of the results, I feel good about this comparison being equitable.

Not sure what I'm going to be doing for my next grow, but I'm havin' fun thinking about it


thank you Saturn

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Cant wait for the video.

maybe tomorrow, film at 11!

Awesome grow SS, definately subscribed and gaining huge respect for LEDs and your growing skills.... my only problem is if I read this thread for too long, the drool starts to damage my keyboard.

thank you bobajim!

I'm really looking forward to harvesting these sticky ladies .