About Those Charts

[Melville Hobbes]

It's that time of year again.
Outdoor growers are getting ready to start their grows, and new growers are looking for information on cannabis seeds. Questions about how to plant them, and if you can tell what sex they are before you plant them are being asked, and search engines are brining them these...

We've seen these charts circulated and discussed, but so far I haven't seen anyone test them.
Therefore I'm going to.
I have seeds from my outdoor plants that were pollinated by a neighbour's male which would otherwise go to waste, so I'm going to germinate them, and grow them under 12/12 from sprout until they show sex.
Tomorrow morning I'll be putting up pics of them under a digital microscope. I'll show the "volcano" end, and the shape of the seed, and comparing them to the sexing chart.
Then I'll be putting them in some transparent pots, right up against the side, so we can see what the taproot is doing as it emerges.
For the sexing chart I'm testing for accuracy, and for the other one I'm testing what direction the taproot goes when it emerges. The planting chart insists that the root will automatically emerge from the seed pointing towards the pointy end of the seed, and then turn around, no matter which way the seed is planted.
I am not testing whether planting the seed point up makes it easier for the seed to shed its shell.
So, I hope this journal helps new growers to decide whether or not to trust these charts in the future.
I have 16 regular seeds taken from Blue Dream, Bruce Banner, Skywalker OG, Romulan, Jack the Ripper, Black Amnesia Haze, and Super Lemon Haze plants. They're soaking now in preparation for inspection and planting tomorrow.

Chart Journal 11 April 2023 Seeds.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 11, 2023
• seed planting chart seed sexing chart

15/16 seeds for testing

Hope this will be interesting!

 

[AspenCultivator]

This will definitely be fun and interesting. I heard about sexing based on seeds, and briefly googled around, but came to the conclusion that any true assumptions are more or less inconclusive. Until someone does a test. Definitely gonna watch this and see how it goes! Thanks for putting this together Mel!

 

[Jack420]

I’m in !!

 

[BeccaBuds]

I'm in too! My guess is you'll find seed orientation in the soil is important and that the shape of the seed has no connection to it's gender.

 

[CaptainLucky]

It's that time of year again.
Outdoor growers are getting ready to start their grows, and new growers are looking for information on cannabis seeds. Questions about how to plant them, and if you can tell what sex they are before you plant them are being asked, and search engines are brining them these...

We've seen these charts circulated and discussed, but so far I haven't seen anyone test them.
Therefore I'm going to.
I have seeds from my outdoor plants that were pollinated by a neighbour's male which would otherwise go to waste, so I'm going to germinate them, and grow them under 12/12 from sprout until they show sex.
Tomorrow morning I'll be putting up pics of them under a digital microscope. I'll show the "volcano" end, and the shape of the seed, and comparing them to the sexing chart.
Then I'll be putting them in some transparent pots, right up against the side, so we can see what the taproot is doing as it emerges.
For the sexing chart I'm testing for accuracy, and for the other one I'm testing what direction the taproot goes when it emerges. The planting chart insists that the root will automatically emerge from the seed pointing towards the pointy end of the seed, and then turn around, no matter which way the seed is planted.
I am not testing whether planting the seed point up makes it easier for the seed to shed its shell.
So, I hope this journal helps new growers to decide whether or not to trust these charts in the future.
I have 16 regular seeds taken from Blue Dream, Bruce Banner, Skywalker OG, Romulan, Jack the Ripper, Black Amnesia Haze, and Super Lemon Haze plants. They're soaking now in preparation for inspection and planting tomorrow.

Chart Journal 11 April 2023 Seeds.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 11, 2023
• seed planting chart seed sexing chart

15/16 seeds for testing

Hope this will be interesting!

Thanks Mel I’m hooked and will dropping by every now and then. Sounds like an interesting grow good luck n happy growing. CL

 

[Phytoplankton]

Throwing a bag of popcorn in the microwave!

 

[BeccaBuds]

I wonder if they pop better with the pointy end up, lol?

 

[Melville Hobbes]

I took these images this morning, but I didn't have time to upload them until now.
I'm going to put them up as attachments instead of going through the gallery so they'll be split between 2 posts, and replies will be at the end of the second post.
The seeds are planted in 4 transparent pots, 3 square and one round. The seeds in the round pot are planted point up, the rest of them are point down.
If I were going to do this over again I would take pics of the seeds before soaking, and I would soak them in separate containers, based on what sex the chart predicts them to be.
I may do that after this if we can't tell from the pics what sex the chart would predict them to be, or if anyone disputes the results we get.
That's enough chit-chat, here are the pics!

Seed One - and here you see why I think we may have to redo the sex part of the test.

Seed Two

Seed 3

Seed 4

Seed 5

Seed 6

Seed 7

Seed 8

Seed 9

Seed10

 

[Melville Hobbes]

Seed 11

Seed 12

Seed 13

Seed 14

Seed 15

Seed 16

So, as you can see, soaking them makes it a little more difficult to distinguish the "volcano" shape on the blunt end of the seeds.
I've still labelled which seed is which, and I'll go over these pics and give my guess from the two criteria on the chart as to which sex I think they're supposed to be.
Some of the seeds had already split open after 10 hours of soaking (most notably number one), so that step was probably unnecessary even though they've been stored in open containers at room temperature for months with humidity of about 40%.

This will definitely be fun and interesting. I heard about sexing based on seeds, and briefly googled around, but came to the conclusion that any true assumptions are more or less inconclusive. Until someone does a test. Definitely gonna watch this and see how it goes! Thanks for putting this together Mel!

Thanks for coming by to check it out Aspen!
Personally I doubt that it's possible to determine the sex of seeds, but the only way to know for sure is to test it out!

I’m in !!

Hi Jack!

I'm in too! My guess is you'll find seed orientation in the soil is important and that the shape of the seed has no connection to it's gender.

Hi Becca!
I agree about the shape of the seed, and I had a bit of a discussion with another grower about the seed orientation thing. He was convinced that the taproot is genetically programmed to pull a u-turn as it comes out of the shell. I pointed out that none of the stems of my plants where the seed was planted point down had any evidence of that happening, and he said it would have straightened out below the surface by the time I harvested, so that's why I wasn't seeing it. I think 16 seeds is a good sample size to determine what's going on.

Thanks Mel I’m hooked and will dropping by every now and then. Sounds like an interesting grow good luck n happy growing. CL

Thanks Cap!
As I said, some of the seeds have already popped open, so we shouldn't have long to wait before we can draw our first conclusion!

Throwing a bag of popcorn in the microwave!

Welcome Phyto!

I wonder if they pop better with the pointy end up, lol?

 

[CaptainLucky]

Seed 11

Seed 12

Seed 13

Seed 14

Seed 15

Seed 16

So, as you can see, soaking them makes it a little more difficult to distinguish the "volcano" shape on the blunt end of the seeds.
I've still labelled which seed is which, and I'll go over these pics and give my guess from the two criteria on the chart as to which sex I think they're supposed to be.
Some of the seeds had already split open after 10 hours of soaking (most notably number one), so that step was probably unnecessary even though they've been stored in open containers at room temperature for months with humidity of about 40%.


Thanks for coming by to check it out Aspen!
Personally I doubt that it's possible to determine the sex of seeds, but the only way to know for sure is to test it out!

Hi Jack!

Hi Becca!
I agree about the shape of the seed, and I had a bit of a discussion with another grower about the seed orientation thing. He was convinced that the taproot is genetically programmed to pull a u-turn as it comes out of the shell. I pointed out that none of the stems of my plants where the seed was planted point down had any evidence of that happening, and he said it would have straightened out below the surface by the time I harvested, so that's why I wasn't seeing it. I think 16 seeds is a good sample size to determine what's going on.

Thanks Cap!
As I said, some of the seeds have already popped open, so we shouldn't have long to wait before we can draw our first conclusion!

Welcome Phyto!

Cool CL

 

[InTheShed]

 

[BeccaBuds]

Can't resist saying it; cool beans, man! I'm thinking the "volcano" end of the seed, where it was connected to the bract as it formed, is likely shaped as it is by bud density and doesn't effect genetic quality, seed viability or gender development. That's my theory anyway.
As far a which way up, I've planted both ways and sideways and gotten healthy plants so I'm betting you'll get similar results.

 

[Jack420]

One only way to know !!!!

 

[CaptainLucky]

Can't resist saying it; cool beans, man! I'm thinking the "volcano" end of the seed, where it was connected to the bract as it formed, is likely shaped as it is by bud density and doesn't effect genetic quality, seed viability or gender development. That's my theory anyway.
As far a which way up, I've planted both ways and sideways and gotten healthy plants so I'm betting you'll get similar results.

I agree I just make a little hole and drop them in and up, down or sideways they usually sprout . CL

 

[Carmen Ray]

Hi Mel, I look forward to seeing your experiments and finding out what you conclude. Best of luck.

 

[Melville Hobbes]

We have taproots on all but a couple of seeds so far, although I'm not sure calling a tiny nub at the end of a seed, or a white line where the shell has split really qualifies for the title.
I'm putting them in here in order, and you can see that the seeds planted point down are sending their taproots down without any problems.
The seeds planted point up are also finding their way just fine. Seed 16 in particular.
I will say that one of the seeds turned itself over with its taproot, so it'll be coming up as if it was planted point up. I wonder how often that happens to our seeds?

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 1.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 1

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 2.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 2

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 3.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 3

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 4.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 4

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 5.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 5

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 6.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 6

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 7.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 7

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 8.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 8

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 9.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 9

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 10.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 10

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 11.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 11

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 12.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 12

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 13.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 13

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 14.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 14

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 15.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 15

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 16.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 16

Cool CL

Glad you like it, lol!

Hi Shed!

Can't resist saying it; cool beans, man! I'm thinking the "volcano" end of the seed, where it was connected to the bract as it formed, is likely shaped as it is by bud density and doesn't effect genetic quality, seed viability or gender development. That's my theory anyway.
As far a which way up, I've planted both ways and sideways and gotten healthy plants so I'm betting you'll get similar results.

Lol! Yeah, that's my theory too!
When I've bothered to position the seed I've mostly planted them with the seam vertical. I figure if the taproot comes out pointing sideways it'll find it's way down.

One only way to know !!!!

It's always good to have evidence to back your opinion up!

I agree I just make a little hole and drop them in and up, down or sideways they usually sprout . CL

Yup, although I've had the occasional maverick that decides to try to grow upside down.

Hi Mel, I look forward to seeing your experiments and finding out what you conclude. Best of luck.

Hi Carmen!
I still have to decide what the chart says will be male or female. I am thinking that another set of seeds might be needed for that.
I do have some more seeds that will otherwise go to waste, so maybe I'll post some pics of them pre-soak and let you guys vote as well! Come to a consensus on it.

 

[InTheShed]

Seeds don't get "planted" in nature so it makes perfect sense that the tap root understands gravity and sorts itself out no matter what. I never paid a lick of attention to that graphic for that reason.

Thanks for running these tests Mel!

 

[CaptainLucky]

We have taproots on all but a couple of seeds so far, although I'm not sure calling a tiny nub at the end of a seed, or a white line where the shell has split really qualifies for the title.
I'm putting them in here in order, and you can see that the seeds planted point down are sending their taproots down without any problems.
The seeds planted point up are also finding their way just fine. Seed 16 in particular.
I will say that one of the seeds turned itself over with its taproot, so it'll be coming up as if it was planted point up. I wonder how often that happens to our seeds?

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 1.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 1

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 2.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 2

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 3.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 3

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 4.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 4

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 5.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 5

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 6.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 6

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 7.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 7

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 8.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 8

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 9.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 9

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 10.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 10

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 11.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 11

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 12.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 12

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 13.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 13

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 14.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 14

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 15.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 15

Chart journal 13 April 2023 seed 16.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 13, 2023

Seed 16

Glad you like it, lol!

Hi Shed!

Lol! Yeah, that's my theory too!
When I've bothered to position the seed I've mostly planted them with the seam vertical. I figure if the taproot comes out pointing sideways it'll find it's way down.

It's always good to have evidence to back your opinion up!

Yup, although I've had the occasional maverick that decides to try to grow upside down.

Hi Carmen!
I still have to decide what the chart says will be male or female. I am thinking that another set of seeds might be needed for that.
I do have some more seeds that will otherwise go to waste, so maybe I'll post some pics of them pre-soak and let you guys vote as well! Come to a consensus on it.

Now I’m wondering if the few times I’ve had them not sprout if they did that? Then maybe dried up when I was waiting because I never found any remains.Idk? CL

 

[Melville Hobbes]

Seeds don't get "planted" in nature so it makes perfect sense that the tap root understands gravity and sorts itself out no matter what. I never paid a lick of attention to that graphic for that reason.

I never did either except to notice that it didn't match my experience!

Thanks for running these tests Mel!

No problem! Actually it gives me something to do while Blueberry finishes up.
I may end up donating the females to my neighbour for his outdoor grow too.

Now I’m wondering if the few times I’ve had them not sprout if they did that? Then maybe dried up when I was waiting because I never found any remains.Idk? CL

Hmm. I've noticed that seeds planted in peat pucks that don't sprout will sometimes disappear if the puck is kept moist. Could be that what's left in there just breaks down quickly.

 

[Melville Hobbes]

We now have seeds breaking soil!
I think the results so far speak for themselves. The chart showing the root squiggling around under the surface is bunk. We haven't seen how many helmet heads we might get from this bunch, but a couple of the point down seeds are shedding their shells already. If I do have to deal with any helmet heads I'll show it.
I do find it interesting that the two quickest plants to fully sprout are from the point up container.
Next step is to move them out of these transparent pots to ordinary seedling pots for the next step.
I'll post which ones I think match the chart description of male and female and we'll watch them grow under 12/12 until they've all shown sex. I'll post pics of the seeds as they break the surface and get transferred to the seedling pots.
Which I will need to buy more of.

Seedling pics!

Chart journal 14 April 2023 seed 3.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 14, 2023

Seed 3
Shedding its shell

Chart journal 14 April 2023 seed 4.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 14, 2023

Seed 4

Chart journal 14 April 2023 seed 5.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 14, 2023

Seed 5

Chart journal 14 April 2023 seed 6.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 14, 2023

Seed 6

Chart journal 14 April 2023 seed 10.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 14, 2023

Seed 10

Chart journal 14 April 2023 seed 11.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 14, 2023

Seed 11

Chart journal 14 April 2023 seed 12.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 14, 2023

Seed 12

Chart journal 14 April 2023 seed 13.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 14, 2023

Seed 13

Chart journal 14 April 2023 seed 15.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 14, 2023

Seed 15

Chart journal 14 April 2023 seed 16.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Apr 14, 2023

Seed 16

Those would be seeds 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15 and 16. In that order.